Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    
    
    The woman that carpooled with me to last weeks get together made
    a very simple comment about the evening "There was no competition"
    amoung the women present.  I really try to not fall into the old
    game of woman against woman.  Many times I find it very difficult
    to be friends with the women I work with - then I force myself to
    see them as women/friends first and then as adversaries/competitors
    in the work envrionment second.  Sometimes I lose because of this
    but I feel that in the long run we all win.
    
    A lot of the women in this conference have given me energy and
    inspiration to continue working toward my goal of being a woman
    first and treating other women as women first.
    
    I come from a family of 4 girls and 3 boys.  Most of my siblings
    have not yet learned how to get along with each other much less
    anyone outside the family who does not conform to their idea of
    correctness.
    
    _peggy
    
    		(-)
    		 |
    			After all we are all daughters of the Goddess.
    

    In the last year or so I've felt incredibly separated from other
    women.  Most of this is because of my position at work (Principal
    Software Engineer), and the lack of women peers at this level where
    I've been working.  And it may only get worse as I continue to strive
    on the technical track.

    It also has become more real to me as I've outgrown the role models I
    had at work -- both female and male.  The sense of isolation, go-it-on-
    your-own that no role models seems to force one into is really
    depressing.
    
    So what have I done about it?  Tried to increase my involvement and
    interactions with other women.  I've also joined a Women's Barbershop
    singing group which is just a blast -- we're still looking for new
    members, hint, hint ;-)
    
    I'm also looking for more role models at work, but that seems to take
    longer.
    
    I am not interested in being a separatist, because I believe all the
    voices are important.  But I do find that the time I send with only
    women has a dramatic healing, strengthening effect on me.  And as
    Justine said, frequently the groups of women I'm with do cross
    socio-political backgrounds, philosophies, and sexual orientation.
    It's strange; some people think that this might be a frightening
    experience -- being exposed to so much difference -- I find it
    exhilarating!  It helps me cling tightly to my belief that all people
    are basically good and each person desires to have a positive affect
    on society.  Hard to explain, but I enjoy it.

					-Leslie

	I don't know how on the topic this is, but it seems to fit, and 
	lately it's been a big issue with me...

	I have always felt very seperate from other women.  I find it 
	very hard to make female friends.  I mean, in the past I have
	always had one or two *very* close women (girl?) friends, 
	(although now I find myself without even that) but the majority
	of my friends and aquaintances were male.  Most of my close
	friends are ex-SO's, in fact.  I have always and still do want
	to make more female friends, but...  I just can't seem to do it.
	I don't know how.

	I guess part of it is that in dating, everyone knows what's
	expected.  You go out a few times, you call, you either get
	closer, you stay friends or you just lose touch.  When you are
	talking about strictly platonic relationships, thing are so much
	less clear.  I would never feel comfortable, say, asking a woman
	I want to get to know better to dinner, or something.  Whereas
	with a man I would have no trouble...

	The other part is that I have always gotten along with men better.
	From a young age, girls were always judgemental of me...I didn't
	fit in, and they rejected me.  The girls were always so much
	meaner, so much crueler than the boys.  The effects of this are
	still with me...I feel intimidated and inhibited with women,
	constantly on guard to say the right thing, act the right way,
	"does she like me, does she think I'm weird, will she be my friend?"
	With men I have always been able to be myself...

	I'm not really making much sense today.  Well, that's the way
	the whole day has been going.  :-)  Anyway, that's one of the
	reasons *I* feel seperate from other women...and it's one of
	the reasons I frequent =wn=, I am hoping to learn how to be more
	comfortable with women, and hopefully make some friends in a 
	non-threatening environment.

	Diana
   	  !

re: .1

Marge, I remember a time when I didn't know I was doing this. I still sometimes
catch myself. It's tough to break those old behavior patterns. I'm not sure
what would have opened my eyes to it at the time. What did was a report
by CS grad students at my college (MIT), talking about sexism in the CS
department.

If you're close enough to a woman doing this, or are willing to try to help
her grow or help her career, try to point it out.
	Mez

    One thing that has changed my sense of aloneness into one of
    connectedness is literature written for and by women.  I am
    now aware of more books that bring me a link with the
    marvelous intellectual perceptions of women.
    
    Another thing is that being a parent has taught me admiration for
    the strength of my own mother and other women parents.

    When I was growing up I never felt connected to *any* of my peers.
    In college I finally found `people like me', and that was really
    great.  Much too long after college (three years) my husband and
    I joined a group that had those same bizarre interests.
    
    Even so, the warm feeling I get from being in an all-women group
    is different, and more, uh, more, um, affirming, more warming,
    more delirious -- well, I like it a lot.  And there I can give a
    smile of delight to a stranger, and get back a confirming, "Yeah,
    it is great, isn't it?" smile, with no hesitation and no strings.
    
    Perhaps it is because our society is set up for women to be mostly
    man-connected, first to their fathers, then to their husbands (or
    to their brothers if they are `unlucky'), and lastly to their sons.
    (And what of their daughters? the reader protests.  Why do you think
    there are all those jokes about mothers-in-law who meddle in their
    sons-in-law's affairs? I reply.)  Women are also supposed to dislike
    other, more attractive women.
    
    The reality is that I now feel really connected to my mother, and
    either I don't know any attractive women, or the ones I know, I
    like.
    
    If you had asked me five years ago, Hey!  Would you like to go to
    an all-woman supper followed by a radical feminist all-woman lecture?
    I would have said, "No" and meant it.  It really didn't (and doesn't)
    *sound* interesting.  But it is.
    
    							Ann B.

    This topic hits particularly close to home right now.  I really
    never connected with women in high school.  It was very much a male
    dominated environment and the women tended to hurt each other before
    they'd hurt one of the guys.  Unfortunately, I think that attitude
    is a product of american adolescence.  When I went to college, however,
    I found an group of women who were strong and confident in their
    abilities.  I found, to my amazement, that I had a wonderful time
    being with these women.  There was a clearer sense of myself as
    an individual, and a greater feeling of support for my goals. 
    
    I think that my connecting with women has improved my relationships
    with everyone, male or female.  I have an identity that is self-defined
    and feels comfortable.  The time that I chose to spend with only
    women is certainly not to "get away" from men.  It is an integral
    part of developing as a person.  When I look back at high school,
    I realize that my relationships with men were not nearly as healthy
    as they are now, even though I enjoyed the company of men more.
    It fascinates me that by learning to value myself as a woman, I
    could have such radical shifts in perception.  

    Please see 1.8 for the revised policy on FWO notes.  This policy
    is now in effect.
    
    						=maggie

    I found that during my high school years it was very difficult to
    feel connected to other women.  I think this occured partly because
    we were all being socialized for that great race to find a husband.
    I remember my mother telling me that if I had plan to do something
    with one of my girlfriends, and my boyfriend were to call and ask
    me out for the same day that I had planned to see my girlfriend,
    I was to say yes to the boyfriend and cancel with the girlfriend.
    BTW, I didn't buy the logic, but think about what message that gave
    me about the value of women when I was growing up.  
    
    In spite of my upbringing, my female friends have always been very
    important.  I even did separatism for a while when I was in my early
    20's.  If I were to have limited free time, I would choose to spend it
     with other women.