Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    Today I talked to my supervisor and was told that there is no
    opportunity for a promotion in my current job as things currently
    stand. It has nothing to do with my job performance but with the
    'head count' on levels within a group. Right now I am
    beginning the process of determining what else I can do at Dec and 
    if the area I am currently in is the right one for me. I have
    lined up two informational interviews for a starter and have signed
    up in personel for help.. Beyond all of that ...I would appreciate 
    input on how people have gone about changing jobs...especially
    how do you go about changing the 'area' in which you work...i.e.
    in my case from mfg planning, to say, systems support or valuing
    differences or training..i.e. I am specifically looking for how
    to stories and advice.
    
    Right now I would appreciate specific information about how
    to make such a change or others' personal experiences. If you
    want to address my particular situation I would rather do it by
    mail..i.e. hints, specifics, personal comments. etc. 
    
    thanks
    
    Bonnie

    I too want to change my job.  I am not necessarily looking for a
    promotion, but a change. My management agrees with me that it is
    time for a change, so I will be looking for hints and suggestions
    also.

Hi Bonnie!!
I went through what I would consider a *significant* career change.
I made the transition from Financial Analyst to Component Engineer.
Before I made the switch, I had to do alot of thinking.  Here are
some points you should consider.

1. What is it that you *really* want to do??  You are at a point where
you can essentially do whatever you want.  You might find that the
most difficult part of your planning is to determine a goal.

2. Look at where you've been.  Take a look at what skills you've
developed through you life and work experiences.  Correct me if I'm
wrong, but I think you might have some teaching experience??  Perhaps
you could use that as a vehicle to get you involved in a group
that does training.  Maybe you could use your background in
Biology in the Medical Sales Group.  
This is a great opportunity
to market yourself.  Toot your horn!  Let people know that you
have an exceptional background.  Have confidence in yourself!! 

3. Look at whats available.  There are alot of different groups here
at DEC handling varied tasks.  Besides things like hardware and
software and the typical support groups, there are alot of different
groups dealing in specialized applications areas.  Read up on
different groups in the company.  TALK TO PEOPLE.  (You aren't shy!!)
;^)    

4. Utilize Personnel.  Talk to Personnel groups at other DEC sites.
Read the ORANGEBOOK.  Alot of people aren't aware of different policies
that have to do with training etc.. Look into taking a couple of courses to make
yourself more marketable.

5. DEVELOP A PLAN.  After doing all of the above, maybe you'll have some
ideas about what you're next job will be.  Write it down.  Set
REALISTIC goals.  Schedule time to talk to people to find out about
jobs.  Plan time to update that resume.
    
6. It won't be easy, but it will be exciting and fun.  Be prepared for
one or two people to tell you it can't be done.  But be prepared to
get alot of support and help from people that will admire your
efforts.

7. BE SELECTIVE.  Don't take just anything that comes your way.  When
your career goals have been defined, make sure that whatever job you
take will help get you to your ultimate goal.
Make sure you get into an organization that will *value* you!!

8. Have confidence in yourself.  (Did I already say that?? - I'll say
it again!!)  ;^)   And GOOD LUCK!!!!!
                                       
    
    
    Nance

    It helped me to list my last few jobs, and under each list the things
    I liked most and disliked most about each of them.
    
    I also made a note of which tasks came easily to me -- my dream
    job was a job where I got to do what I liked most of the time, and
    I got to do tasks that I like which come easily to me at least 50%
    of the time.  That allows me to work on growth activities rather
    than just hanging on by my fingernails to keep up.
    
    Out of this list came a "constellation" of sorts -- and it turned
    out to be a good map for job hunting.  
    
    (By the way, I found the right job, too!  But I had to come in at
    a lower salary than I deserved, and am being compensated for that
    after the fact.)
    
    Another thing I learned is that hiring managers tend to describe
    their ideal candidate in job descriptions.  They often are willing
    to take a candidate who has strengths in some areas and promise
    in some other areas.  Don't assume you're not a good candidate if
    you have 75% of what the hiring manager is asking for!

    I'd begin actual hunting by checking COOKIE::JOBS on a regular basis
    [kp7 or select]. It's not very useful for grade 12 and up, and it's
    still heavily weighted toward engineering (surprise!) but it's being
    used more and more as a quasi-official channel for all types of
    job.
    
    The next thing I would do is to put something quite like this in my
    login file:  HUNT :== VTX JOBS.  That'll give you quicker access to the
    Official listing of open reqs.  It's slow, but you can get the req
    numbers and recruiter's name and all that nonsense. 
    
    				    		=maggie		

Bonnie

I would like to reiterate a few things that have been said.  It does help
to do a serious analysis of your past.  Analyze the jobs that you have held
and list the responsibilities you have had in each one.  Then list the training
that you have been through, whether job related or not.  After that list
significant developmental experiences you have had (e.g. things learned
from life's experiences such as travel, relationships, achieving something
that was hard, being a parent).  Finally, list things that you consider personal
accomplishments (I listed quitting smoking as my major accomplishment).  

In making all of these lists, consider what you learned or gained from each
experience.  Consider what your likes and dislikes are, decide what you are
already good at and identify areas that you might want to develop through a
new work experience.  Hopefully by writing these things down you can create
a composite picture of yourself that you can then use to help you make some
decisions on what your goals and aspirations are and how you define success.

I went through an exercise like this once with my supervisor.  It helped me
tremendously, in fact it helped me change careers (within DEC).  I must warn
you, however, that it is not easy to do this kind of soul searching.  I
remember feeling very frustrated going through this process.  One night as
I was trying to make a list of things that I had learned from various
episodes in my life I was so overcome with emotion -- I cried so hard I
could barely keep my eyes open.  Yet the harder I cried the more furiously
I wrote.  It was very exhilarating and exhausting.  The result gave me a
good indication of what I valued which helped me decide what to look for in
a job. 

I, too, am trying to change jobs.  If you get to a point where you need to
talk you can call me and we can compare notes.  It is a tough road that you
are embarking upon, but it is very possible to navigate it successfully.

Cheers, Margaret

    Nitpick alert!  The pointer in .5 should read OASS::JOBS...
    
    /donna
    

    donna,
    thanks for the alert. i've changed the pointer and the title of
    the note. now back to our regularly scheduled conversation...
    
    liz

i've just changed from being a software engineer in the artificial
intelligence groups to being a member of the human factors department in the
corporate design group.

it was a big change because i hadn't changed jobs for the 7 years that i'd
been at digital. my job had evolved over the years, but i never did a job
hunt. it's also big because i'm no longer doing any software engineering --
i'll be mostly consulting with developers on software user interfaces
(windows, commands, system messages, icons, etc).

the real nice thing about the change is that i got to do what i wanted to.
the most important thing to do at a place like digital (aside from getting
your work done) is to meet people. when i was in high school, my folks kept
pushing me to get involved in extracurricular activities. i didn't do it
much then, but i've done it at digital, and it paid off. i was co-chair of
the human factors steering group for a year, and got to meet a lot of
people. i made sure to pester all of those contacts when i was finally
looking to change jobs. it paid off, as usually happens, in an unexpected
way. i happened to be talking with someone who suggested that i contact her
boss, because she thought he was looking for someone with my background. it
took a month or two for it to finally fall together, but it did.

talk with everyone you come across; you never know who's got a lead. have
your friends ask their friends, too. read the jobs notesfile. read the vtx
jobs stuff if you have the patience (i didn't). the people who've said that
you shouldn't settle are right -- if you take a job just to make a change,
you may wind up sorry. as long as you're not going to get fired (and you
won't, because this is digital), hang in there and look. be upfront when you
talk with people -- no sense starting a new job based on falsehoods. ask all
the questions you possibly can when you're interviewing, and talk with as
many people as possible -- everyone if you can. finally, a tip i got from m3
-- find out all there is to know about the organization you're considering.

it's a real pain in the ass, but you've got to do it.

good luck				-- hs

	Change is tough but do try it. When I decided to change from a
	career in the hospital x-ray department to DP I signed up for
	a technical school during the day, worked the ER on call at night.
	It was a b*tch during the time school lasted but it sure paid
	off in a better job.

	I guess what I'm saying is once you decide what you want to do go
	out on your own to start the training. Nothing looks better than
	inititive and being a self-starter. Talk to people already doing
	the job your interested in. Every job/career has it's drawbacks,
	make sure they are ones you can live with before you make the
	move. liesl

I encourage anyone to read "What Color is Your Parachute?"  It is a good book on
how to figure out what you want in a job, and how to get it.  It pretty much
agrees with what has been said in here, put goes into quite a bit of detail.

JMB 

    Lately I've been toying with the idea of going to law school
    and going to work for the ACLU -- and this as a long-range
    plan, no less. 
    
    Think even the ACLU would hire a [by then] 45-year-old novice
    lawyer who writes science fiction on the side?
    
    --bonnie

    Hi,
    
    I've been at Digital for a year. I am thinking about changing jobs,
    not immediately, but sometime in the not too distant future. I am
    an electrical engineer right now with the eventual goal of getting
    into marketing.
    
    My question is this - I have seen and heard mention of "informational
    interviews." I think I know what they are (descriptive names help!)
    but I am unsure about how to go about "having" some. Do I just call
    someone whom I know works in the area I think I want to get into
    and tell them "I'd like to have an informational interview with
    you."? The words sound kind of strange to me, but maybe that's just
    because they are unfamiliar...
    
    Thanks for your help.
    
     -Amy.
    

    Call a manager in the department and say something like "I've been
    looking at career directions, and the XXX that your organization
    does interests me.  I'd like to know more about it so I can utilize
    the information in my career planning process.  Can I get on your
    calendar for an information-gathering meeting?"

    I guess this is as good a place as any... I've made the move to
    change jobs - just with somebody other than Digital. My last day
    with Digital is August 5 before I begin work with ECOS Electonics
    as a power consultant. I expect no good words from this conference,
    since I've been adverserial from the get-go. But its been a pleasure
    getting to know all of you. DEC was good to me - hope it works for
    all of you, too.

    <--(.16)
    
    Goodbye, Michael...and good luck.
    
    						in Sisterhood,
    						=maggie