Conference turris::womannotes-v2

    Two months ago I attended a party at Chopsticks without my husband and
    was seen by some of my coworkers talking with men and dancing
    with one woman, and leaving for home with Charles Haynes....

    A week later an old friend told my husband that he was shocked to
    hear that we had separated!
    
    Fortunately my husband thought it was funny.
    
    Bonnie

        RE: .2, Bonnie,
        
        As one  of the men you talked with at that party (and exchanged
        jokes!), it was a pleasure to meet you again, and I'm glad your
        husband has more sense than to believe the second-hand stuff.

        RE: .0,
                
        As far as gossip  is  concerned,  ignore  it!  It usually stems
        from envy.
        
        &y.
        
        PS. Charles, how's the beer brewing coming along?
        

    I am fascinated by other people's interest in other peoples lives.
    I came in for a share of malicious gossip about 6 months after I
    joined DEC, though I didn't become aware of it until I left the
    department. It was particularly nasty, so I won't go into the gory
    details, but I was stunned that people had nothing better to do
    than talk about me (wonderful though I am!). I have a friend who
    still works in the same office and I am, apparently, still the subject
    of idle gossip occasionally. What is truly stunning is that some
    of those talking about me have never even met me!
    
    I console myself with the thought that their lives can only be so
    empty and narrow that they have nothing better to do and I am happy
    if I can bring a little amusement into their lives!
    
    In wonderment,
    
    Alex
    
    
    

    re: .2
    
    This happened to me a while back.  I went out to lunch with a
    friend at a Chinese restaurant favored by DEC engineers, and
    by the time I got back the rumor that Neil and I had split
    up, or that I was having an affair, was rampant.  
    
    I'm not sure if I find it funny or if I'm mad. 
    
    --bonnie
    

    While trying to help a new DECCIE feel welcome, I became the target
    of gossip by a former close friend.  It seems that the new DECCIE
    was "warned" about hanging around with me on her break because our
    manager would be very angry if he knew we were spending time together.
    Since my new friend was afraid of doing something "against the rules",
    I resoved the problem by going directly to our manager and asking
    him if he had a problem with us taking a break together.  He was
    nonplussed and thought the entire thing was ridiculous while commenting
    that it sounded like something X would say to stir up trouble. (He
    KNEW who it was!)
    
    I have found the very best way to squelch gossip is to confront
    it head on.  When my 16 year old daughter had problems with a peer
    at school, she did the same thing, and the person starting the gossip
    was so embarrassed, it immediately stopped.  I don't know of anybody
    who wants to be confronted with the fact that they started the gossip.
    You may want to give it a try.  After all, what have you got to
    lose?
    
    Best of Luck-
    Barb

    I have been a target of gossip for many. many years now.  I tend to
    have (or I should say, I do have) a flirtatious personality, which 
    opens the door for lots of gossip.  I told a friend of mind recently,
    "my life is full of scandal."  So I know how you feel, it does hurt at
    times.  

    You can either confront or ignore the gossip.  Both choices will either
    stop the gossip or add "fuel to the fire."   

    - Lory

    re: .6
    
    I agree with you in general that the gossip is best confronted
    head-on, but in my case, I have no idea who started this gossip.
    There were half a dozen people I knew having lunch at the same
    restaurant that day (which is the really funny thing -- if I were
    having an affair, would I take my boyfriend to the one restaurant
    where co-workers of his, mine, and my husband's were all
    guaranteed to see us?  Somebody's brain must have been turned
    off.) 
    
    Do you have any ideas for how to track down the source of such a
    rumor so you can confront it head on?  I thought it would blow
    over, but I'm still answering questions and this lunch was in Feb! 
    
    --bonnie

    Having also been the subject of gossip, I have usually solved the
    problem by confronting who ever I hear discussing me.  What I would
    have done is, if there were 8 people at lunch, I would casually
    ask *all* 8 of them, one at atime, 
    "Oh by the way, I heard something really funny ........
    my husband and I laughed at how rediculus it is when people have
    nothing to talk about they make something up....
    I have done this before in one situation, 
    its pretty funny watching them backpedal.
    
    There was a manager once when I worked in manufacturing, who appointed
    himself personal rumor monger with me as the subject.  I did some
    checking around and found that it was him that was talking.  I went
    to his office, and asked him if there was a problem that he had
    with me?  That I had heard a rumor that he says..........stuff......
    he denied it of corse but the rumor was never repeated.
    
    vivian

    My favorite tactic (most effective when directed toward someone
    who loves spreading malicious gossip):
    
    <scornful look>  "Where have *you* been?  That tired rumor is so
    old that I thought it had long since breathed its last!"

    Take your own advice - (paraphrased), "people shouldn't worry about
    what other people are doing (or saying!)".
    
    And then just smile and enjoy being an enigma.  No one gossips about
    dull people.
    
    You cannot stop gossip so don't waste your time.

    re: .11 -< Who cares what other people say? >-
    
    Thirteen year old girls who have been singled out for Lord knows
    what reason who learn that the entire student body thinks she's
    pregnant.
    
    Gossip is not idle, it is cruel, malicious and hateful. Perhaps
    we shouldn't care what other people say, but I think alot of us
    do. Peer acceptance has always been rather important to me and at
    13, it was rather hard for me to understand all the whys and the
    wherefores of malicious rumors. As a matter of fact, I'm not sure
    that I understand it now, but I do seem to deal with it better.
    Instead of bursting into tears in the girls room, I save it til
    I get home.
                              -sunny-

    
    RE:  .12
    
    Wow, did your reply ever bring a memory rushing back into my head!
    When I returned to junior college for the final tri-semester of
    my senior year, I learned that the entire student body believed
    that I was preggers.  I had been married over the semester break,
    and it seems that a faculty member was heard to say "I don't know
    why she even bothered to return to school.  She'll never work at
    her trade (programming) since she "had to get married").  Needless
    to say I was _crushed_.  I went to my counselor and dropped a class
    that I needed to take in order to graduate with the rest of my class.
    I did so because it was to be taught by the member of the faculty
    who either started, or at least perpetuated the rumor.  My counselor
    (who was a simpathetic, though ignorant man) and I then had the
    following conversation:
    
    Counselor: Don't drop the class.  If you do, you won't graduate,
               and anyway don't give him the satisfaction of knowing
               he angered you this much.
    
    Me: I am dropping the class.  I will not give that man the satisfaction
        of having me at his mercy for a grade.  I just wish this tri-mester
        were nine months long so I could prove him wrong.
    
    Counselor:  All that would prove is that you found a good doctor.
                                                      
    
    You know how sometimes in one instant you realize that you have
    just taken to heart a life long lesson?  That's what happened to
    me as I sat there in the counselors office.  The bottom line for
    me was "sometimes you're damned if you do, and you're damned if 
    you don't - people will think what they want".
    
    I _did_ drop the class, took it that summer, received my diploma
    in the mail, and never regretted it.  No wonder I grew up to be
    such a tough old bird!
    
    Marion
                                 

    
    
                    Remember what Mark Twain said:
    
                    The only thing worse than being talked about
                    is not being talked about.
    
    
    
    

    <--(.14)
    
    I think it was actually Oscar Wilde.
    
    						=maggie

                           -<STAGE PRESENCE>-
    
    Though it may be little consolation, you must be a person worth
    the attention.  I know, throughout the years, I have "broken up
    many marriages, stolen boyfriends, participated in orgies, gone
    gay..." you get the picture.  Though it hurt (some were laughable)
    I realize that people are curious about me; they couldn't figure
    me out, so they made up my life story.  If some people can't pin
    a LABLE on a person (fat, whorey, lazy...) it bugs them and they
    make one.  Friends that I have now tell me what their first
    impression was of me and, invariably, it was always off-base.  
    
    -hard to figure out-
    
    Louise      (the gossip-starters are always boring and lonely)
    

    To answer the original question...
    
    No, people don't have anything better to do (or if they do, they
    certainly aren't doing it!)
    
    melanie

    
    I think the best way to fight back against gossip, is to boycott
    it.  I have also been the target of gossip, mainly because my field
    is dominated by men, and I happen to get along very well with them
    - most of my best friends are men.  Women and men alike, who don't
    understand this, have started rumors about my relationships with
    fellow male workers... I have to say, it has never happened at DEC,
    thankfully.
    
    One particularly hurtful time, ironically enough, the perpetrators, the
    most likely in the bunch to participate in "questionable"
    relationships, either bitterly divorced (repeatedly) or unhappily
    married, (for the nth time) accused me and a good friend, the two LEAST
    likely individuals - which was VERY obvious, given our mutual very
    happy marriages, of having an affair. 
    
    Since then I decided that it was because the group of men that started
    the rumor had no concept of a genuine male/female platonic
    relationship.  Which is really sad. I also realized that that was
    exactly why my friend and I had BECOME friends, was because we knew how
    to deal with a member of the opposite sex as a person and not a sex
    object.  They couldn't understand our friendship, and probably resented
    it.  Perhaps the fact that they COULDN'T create a satisfactory
    friendship with a person of the opposite sex was the key to their own
    situation with relationships. 
                       
    Since that incident, which by the way had been put to an end by my
    manager, bless his heart, who discovered the rumor and squelched it, I
    decided that I would try to perpetuate his action by confronting rumors
    and refusing to spread them.  It isn't easy, I have to admit, because
    rumors are sometimes hard to spot, and are a way to be lazy about
    forming impressions of people. However, the more people that try to
    sniff out and STOP gossip rather that perpetuate it, the less innocent
    people will be hurt by it. I like to believe that I have learned from
    my experiences, sometimes it helps ease the hurt.
    
    Amy. 
    
                                  

I guess the people I work with are too busy working 60+ hours a week to have
time to gossip.  Or maybe it's because most of them are happily married in
fairly co-equal relationships?  Is it profession-oriented?  I hope not!

Nevertheless, when I first joined the company I reported to a hardware manager
and worked mostly with hardware engineers.  I was appalled at the amount of
gossip going on.  Needless to say, people in that group weren't very
cooperative with one another, and I found that most of my time was spent
gathering information in order to hold things together so that people's
modules and code would interface properly.  Person A wouldn't let Person B
know anything about the work they were doing because of some rumour or other
that was being spread about that person.

I might point out that most of these people were leading highly destructive
lifestyles, so they were just doing unto others as they did unto themselves,
I suppose.

Gossip hurts worse than sticks and stones, but it can be confronted head-on
with pride.  Unfortunately, this approach doesn't work well in the workplace,
as we have to work with the person unless we switch groups.  I have found
personnel to be fairly responsive in confronting these situations and
arranging group meetings where the issue is brought up in a manner which
protects the person who institgated the complaint.

On an emotional level, we can build up a strong defense against gossip by
taking pride in ourselves, but the working relationship is still affected
because the other person is unlikely to be a cooperative work partner.  This
is their problem and not ours, but we are still affected by it.


				Mark

    Several notes have talked about confronting the person who is
    spreading the gossip. 
    
    My question is, how do you go about finding out who started the
    rumor?  My particular problem has sort of blown over as months
    have passed and people see Neil and I are still happily married
    and I'm still friends with the other guy, but I still don't have
    the faintest idea who started the rumors or whether it was done
    from malice or just from jumping to conclusions.
    
    And would you deal differently with a rumor spread from malice
    than you would with a rumor based on misinformation?  Most of the
    people who asked me if we were having marital troubles were
    friends offering their help; it was really hard to blame them
    because their source was wrong. 
    
    --bonnie

    It's difficult, sometimes impossible, to find the source of rumors.
    It's also difficult, even impossible, to completely squelch
    rumors.  Agatha Christie, in her book _The Moving Finger_, makes
    repeated use of the phrase "there's no smoke without fire".
    There will always be some who will, when they see the smoke of rumor,
    believe in the fire of misdeed.
    
    As mentioned in .20, gossip may be prompted by hate, envy, or spite; 
    or it may be only the repeating of careless chatter.  In any case 
    there are [at least] three people involved in gossip:  the victim(s), 
    the originator, the listener(s).
    
    What can the victim do?  If I am the victim, I try to remember that
    Jesus Christ said:
    
    	Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love
    	thy neighbor, and hate thine enemy.
    
    	But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them
    	that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and
    	pray for them which despitefully use you, and 
    	persecute you.
    
    	Matthew 5:44,45
    
    This is not easy to do (for me at least).  But, when I have succeeded,
    situations *have* improved - not least in that I lay down the burden
    of hate, resentment and anger.
    
    What about the originator?  If I know - or think I know - some gossip,
    what can I do?
    
    	This is a tale of one whose malicious gossip injured his neighbor.
    	The gossiper, regretting his action, approached the village
    	wise woman and asked how he could make amends.
    
    	She said, "Return to your home and gather feathers, then go to
    	each house where the gossip has spread and leave a feather on the
    	doorstep.  After you have done so, return to me."
    
    	The man did, and came back to the wise woman's cottage.  "Have
    	you done as I instructed?" she asked.
    
    	"Yes," he replied.  "What shall I do next?"
    
    	Said she, "Retrace your steps, and collect each feather you left.
    	Then bring them all to me."
    
    	The man threw up his arms, shouting, "That's impossible!  By now
    	the feathers are scattered to the four winds - I can never collect
    	them all!"
    
    	The wise woman said gently, "Nor can you ever completely repair
    	the harm you've done to your neighbor."
    
    My parents raised my sister and me on the "Thumper" school of gossip.
    If you've seen Bambi, you know that the rabbit, Thumper, was taught:
    If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all!"
    
    I'm nearly finished with my directly interactive motherhood mode
    and am not nearly as impressed with my skills as I was when the
    children were little (my youngest is fourteen, the older two are grown
    and no longer live with me).  Nevertheless, I did teach, or try
    to teach, my children that when you know something about someone
    else and are tempted to pass it on, first subject it to the following 
    three questions:  Is it true?  Is it kind?  Is it necessary?
    
    And finally, the listener(s) - what can I do when someone comes
    to me with gossip about another.  Last fall, I took three Digital
    courses on communication.  The instructor of two of the courses
    spoke strongly about gossip.  He was referring primarily to gossip
    about someone's work abilities, but I believe what he said applies
    to personal gossip as well.
    
    He taught that when we listen uncritically to gossip, we become a 
    part of it.  A good question to ask, he said, is:  What in that
    person's behavior leads you to conlude that...  It takes courage
    to do this, but good can result.  I can either empower others to
    gossip to me, or not.  The choice is mine.
    
    Yow - quite the sermon!  Oh well, as we say in another notes file,
    take what you like and delete the rest.           
    
    Regards,
    aq