Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    I am trying very hard not to be dense, so please be gentle.
    
    'Better than nothing' doesn't sound very warm and fuzzy for anyone
    involved.  It sounds like the human relations equivalent of the
    spacer the orthodontist puts in to hold the gap until a permanent
    tooth comes in.
    
    While I suppose a valid argument could for the practicality of 
    such an arrangement, it would seem to imply that _a_ relationship
    [as opposed to having a friend] is a minimum requirement.
    
    If that's what it means, I think it's sad.  For me, it lacks
    self-validation -- being unable to see oneself as a unique whole,
    but rather defining oneself by the company one keeps.
    
    I also cannot imagine telling someone, 'OK, this is a temporary
    thing until something better comes along' and it's been my experience
    that if unstated, tacit assumptions about _any_ relationship all
    too frequently have varying interpretation by the parties involved.
    
    I guess I don't understand why there has to be _some_ relationship.
    
      Ann 

    
    	By it's very description, "better than nothing", has to be
    degrading, insulting, and god-awful for both parties.  I can't imagine
    being so desperate or so selfish, as to use anyones time, energy
    and/or their emotions, for lack of anything or anybody that I might
    consider better.  I sure as heck would not care to have someone
    do it to me, knowingly or not.  While not every relationship can
    or will lead to a permanent commitment, every person has right to
    be respected and cared for with at least some measure of value
    placed on their feelings.  To my way of thinking, I can't see how
    a "better than nothing" relationship has any value at all.  The
    most important ingredient in any relationship to me is honesty,
    and I can't believe that anyone would honestly tell another that
    they are considered "better than nothing".
    
    Sandie Dionne
    

    I've found that there's nothing worse than being in a relationship just
    because there's nothing better around. I did that for, sheesh, it could
    have been a year or more, and it was miserable. So why did we stay
    together? I guess because it was better than nothing. It's not good to
    have "something to fall back on", because there's no pressing reason to
    go out and find something really good. There's no reason to be with
    someone that you don't really want to be with -- it's more important to
    be with yourself, and learn to be more comfortable with yourself.
    
    I think that's part of the reason I stayed in this relationship. I was
    living in a new place, and didn't know anyone, and was wondering why
    I'd even moved there. I'd have been much better off breaking off this
    relationship and finding fun things to do on my own.

    Life's much better now that I'm with someone because I want to be.

    					-- hs

    It's better to be lonely alone than lonely with somebody there.
    
    Seems to me that BTN "relationships" (I use the term loosely) can
    be of the verge-of-desperation type.  I have valued the time I was
    unattached and felt no need or desire to have an SO, no matter who.
    (most of the time, that is)  Seems it's quite individual, what do
    you want? what will you settle for? what fits the bill at the time
    you're trying it out?
    
    Dondi

    I've been Better Than Nothing.  But not in a relationship.  I've
    been a Practice Date, and I make a good one.  (I don't get offended
    if I'm not kissed, and I don't get offended if I'm propositioned.)
    
    Think about it.  Aren't there some things you've had to face that
    you would rather have had a rehersal for?  And you can be a whole
    lot looser at a rehersal.  I've had some enjoyable (screamingly
    funny) times that I would have felt *very* differently about if
    they had been for real.
    
    						Ann B.

    	Gee Ann, next time I need a Practice Date, I'll give you a call...
    
    	Actually, I've been in at least one BTN in the not so distant
    past.  I think a lot of it is attitude.  
    
    	I once went on a blind date (sorority sister of a friend needed a
    date to a sorority function type deal)  where I decided up front that
    "It's tough enough having to show up at a function like this with some
    guy you barely know. I should be on my best behaviour and make sure
    that if she has a rotten time, it won't be because of me."  Well,
    we really enjoyed ourselves, and what started out as sort of a BTN
    turned into a great relationship.
    
    	On the other hand, I've had a few good relationships hang on
    into the BTN phase.
    
    	I'm "very single" at the moment, but for the time being, I'm
    content to wait for the right person.
    
    						--Doug

    I originally had this as part of my reply to 866, but perhaps it's
    more appropriate here.
    
    re: 866.18
    
    �I always wonder if a guy who pursues another woman while in a
    relationship isn't shopping for a replacement before having the
    courage to deal with ending (or fixing) the current relationship.�
    
    Well, it isn't always that cut and dried. At one time, I had a
    relationship that had gone on longer than it really should. Every
    once in a while, the subject of "officially" splitting up was
    broached, but neither of us really *wanted* to even though we both
    felt it was for the best to do so, so we never got around to
    actually splitting up. Since neither of us had anyone else "in the
    queue", there was also no incentive to change the status quo, as
    it were, and the security of being in a relationship felt to good
    to just give up. I suppose this classifies it as a "better than
    nothing" relationship.
    
    Eventually, I started involved with someone else, and this acted as
    a catalyst to do what should've already been done. "B" didn't come
    between me and "A", but I did start getting involved with "B" before
    my relationship with "A" was actually over. On the other hand, an
    argument could be made that my relationship with "A" *was* over, even
    if we hadn't officially acknowledged it.
    
    I should also mention that when "B" and I were talking about what
    was starting to happen between us, I did tell her about "A", and
    that I didn't consider myself free and available until "A" and I
    were officially through.
    
    --- jerry

    re. some of the previous
    
    I, personally, wouldn't classify 'practice dates' or 'friends having
    a great time' or 'going out with someone as a favour to a friend'
    as anything approaching BTN.
    
    For me, such things fall/fell under the heading of 'Things to
    be Experienced and Enjoyed on Their own Merit'
    
    Maybe its semantics, but I find it hard to draw a line and put all
    relationships that fall short of near-total commitment on the other
    side of it and call them 'Better Than Nothing'
    
      Ann

    
    I have dated many times and some of the dates were with a person
    whom I liked but, had no interest in having a long term relationship
    with.  Is that B-T-N?  
    
    Some of these dates turned into sexual encounters and although
    good, interesting, or learning experiences, not what either wanted
    for a permenant thing.  Yup B-T-N!
    
    Sort of an interim substitute for a SO.  Not any commitment expressed
    or implied, nor wanted.  If you can handle friendship on that basis
    go for that, afterall half a loaf is better than no food at all.
    
    Dave

 This is a very difficult topic for me.  Having been the other half of a not 
 so distant BTN relationship, I have very mixed feelings on this.   
 And I could get myself in a lot of trouble here - but what the heck!
 
 If I were starving, would I say that not eating was better than stale
 bread, I doubt it.  There are time in our lives were we feel the need
 to be with someone, when we need to draw strength from outside sources.  

 Sometimes the 'status-quo' of a 'steady' helps us through these times.  
 It means that you do a lot of taking sometimes and it isn't always fair
 to the other party.  But you do it to survive.  For me part of it was
 having a safe harbor.  There were a lot of external things going on
 that I didn't know how to deal with and I need a an escape, the relationship
 provided that for me.   It also help restore my faith in men,  since my 
 two previous relationships and a number of previous dates included physical 
 abuse, it was reassuring to find someone who didn't get their kicks by 
 slugging you.  Some may think that's an awful reason to stay with someone, 
 but for me the 'joy' of knowing that I wouldn't have a bruise or a scar to 
 explain was real.

 At the time, I don't think I felt it was BTN, I was content.  There
 was no sparks of love, no sense of forever, but it was comfortable and fun.  
 We did a lot of stuff together, even weathered "stormy times", although we 
 never did get to the Museum of Science ;^) and I always enjoyed his company.  
 We share a lot of "private" jokes, and good memories.  

 I don't regret the relationship, and I don't regret it ending. But I'm not 
 sure I have reconciled how and when it ended.  As it was toward the end of 
 the year, and I was honestly looking forward to having a date, that I didn't 
 have to worry about entertaining, for the holiday parties.  It was going to 
 be nice for once not to be the "odd one out".  And I resent the fact that he 
 ended it and not me!  Now talk about silly emotions, but that's how I felt. 
 
 Do I resent the person, far from it.  He is a wonderful person, a bit 
 eccentric and selfrightous  at times, but we all have our 'traits' that endear 
 us to others.  But as strong a person as he is, I know that we are not 
 capable of giving each other the type of support, comfort, joy and sharing
 that we need.  I've lived alone for the last 8 years or so and I enjoy it, I 
 enjoy my company, and require time for me.  But sometimes, when I'm feeling 
 really lonely or beat up I remember how nice it was to have him around to 
 talk to or snuggle with, I'll admit to missing having someone to share with.  

 In the final analysis I'm not sure that it was really BTN, for me anyway.
 In it's own way it was very special, it helped me, and gave me time to heal, 
 and in return I hope the other person, learned and grew from the experience.  

 Are we still friends?  I think so - if not I'll find out about it soon ;^)!


 Allison
                                     
    

    I was in a relationship for a couple of years that could be
    called, if you want to be negative, better than nothing.
    
    It was what I needed at the time.
    
    Because, you see, "nothing" doesn't have to translate to "no
    partner."  
    
    "Nothing" can be the feeling of hollowness that follows extreme
    pain, when you need to know someone else is there and that perhaps
    there is kindness in the world somewhere.  You aren't ready to
    deal with it yet -- even thinking about reaching out stirs up the
    pain again -- but in the middle of the night when the nightmares
    are close, it helps if there's someone you can wake up and say, "I
    can't sleep, let's go make some hot chocolate."
    
    The very fact that the other person cares enough about you to get
    up and have hot chocolate with you, but doesn't care so much that
    they are going to ask you why you aren't sleeping is itself a
    comfort.  There's a safety there that gives you time to heal. 
    
    In my case, this role was filled not by a lover but by my mother .
    . . though if there had been someone I liked well enough to have
    sex with every now and again, who wouldn't mind a baby in the
    house, I would have rather had a little physical comfort along
    with the hot chocolate.
    
    --bonnie