Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    re: .0
    
    Hmmm have you told him exactly how you feel, the way they are
    expressed in your note ?
    
    At some point, "unwanted" people from the past ought to be regarded
    as any other pest (or salesperson).
    
    First go through the "no" stage (being nice); then tell them you
    consider their imposition to be sexual harassment,and if they still
    don't stop, call your local police department (or womans support
    group) to find out how to "STOP being harassed".
    
    I'm not sure if it'd work for you, but it worked on a salestype
    that was harassing me, and I am a male, just as the salestype was.
    
    Why be nice to someone who is  harassing you ?
    
    Bob

    I think you've already done everything that .1 suggests.
    
    Would it help any for you to realize that his game with you is not
    one of love/attraction but of power/misuse?  If this is not clear,
    let me know and I'll try to elaborate.
    
    Briana

    
    We have talked extensively about what good would come out of this
    type of relationship.  I say no good at all, only to hear all the
    glorious things from his side of the arguement.  I don't know if
    he loves me, he says he cares, but it's hard to believe anything
    from him.  I've told him I'm not interested in and I really don't
    care for him, and so on...... Come to think of it, he really is
    alot like one of those super salesmen types, the kind that hates
    to hear that you're not interested and don't want to buy.  Thanks
    for all the advice so far, I'll try some of it out. I'll let you
    know how things go with my next encounter.
    
    mt

    I found that just saying "get lost" was effective....
    

    Having had the experience of someone who would not get lost, I can
    tell you that there is no way to be nice about it.  If the person
    had any sensitivity, they would pay attention to what you are saying.
    I second the suggestion to get a restraining order put on this guy.
    You just call the town clerk and tell them that he is harassing
    you.  Once the order is in place, you can call the police anytime
    he comes within x feet of you, and they will pick him up.  You
    might also change your phone number to an unlisted one.
    	Linda

    How about
    
    "My husband and I do *not* have an open marriage.  Now that you know
    that, what is it you want from me?"

    
    re: .5
    
    It sounds like you might have an interpretation gap -- you think
    you've been discouraging, but if you've been listening to his
    arguments, it is perhaps not unreasonable that he thinks you have
    mixed feelings, or even favorable feelings. 
    
    If you haven't said "no" in words of one syllable, possibly rude
    words of one syllable, this guy isn't going to get the message.
    
    --bonnie 

    
    Having seen this from the opposite perspective, I'd opine that
    most reasonable fellows would would have curbed their 'fires'
    at the 5th or 6th non-acknowledgement of calls or notes. Most
    men are not that dense. "Get Lost" ought to be pretty clear,
    but being too abusive could backfire on some types. Lofty 
    dismissal is less likely to be misinterpreted than hostility.

    Never mind the "Get lost". It sounds like you need to go
    straight to the "FOAD" ("F*** off and die").
    
    --- jerry

    Mr. Persistent doesn't work for Digital, I don't suppose? If he
    did, it's classic sexual harassment and could be worked through
    your friendly local personnel rep.
    
    If he's not a Digit, you still might be able to bring some workplace
    pressure to bear. I fancy that he mostly calls during work hours,
    so you could tell him that if he keeps it up you'll complain to his
    boss. Or have YOUR boss complain to his.

    Good luck,
    Chuck

   
    It sounds (in .5) as though you are trying to _convince_ him that
    you're right and that you continue to listen to his arguments. 
    You DO NOT owe him any explanations.  Next time he calls, tell him
    you do _not_ ever want to hear from him again and that, if you do,
    you will contact the police.  Then if he does call again, CALL THE
    POLICE.
    
    The idea of contacting a women's support group or crisis center
    for their (probably experienced) advice is also a good one.
    
    -Tracy
    

    I agree with .13. you don't owe him any explanations. so my question
    point blank is "are you "certain" you don't want to hear from him?
    in .5 you sound as if you are trying to decided if he does love
    you or not for whatever reason. If you have any question inyour
    mind about this then perhaps your rejection isn't coming out
    forcibly enough to detour him?
    (just some questions I thought I'd throw out..)
    

    Although it's deceptive and untrue, since this person doesn't
    want to hear "No", you could *infer* that in today's world, there
    are many dangerous and communicable diseases and you (or your
    husband) have seen test results that indicate exposure to one
    of these was "probable".
    
    Half-seriously,
    
    Steve

There's probably a reason why he's your _*EX*_ fiance ... 

    Some ways I have gotten rid of an undesired suiter:
    
    "I don't love you.  I never will.  Ever."  [that's for when you
                                                care a little bit about
                                                him and want to maintain
                                                a friendship]
    "I don't want to f*** you.  I never will.  Ever." [want him gone
                                                       NOW, don't care
                                                       how, just gone]
    
    Said point blank, enunciated as clearly as possible, these work.
    The second worked only when said in the presence of my friends,
    but the guy left me a-l-o-n-e.

    Lee

    Um, you'll let us know how things go in your "next encounter"? 
    I think you've just hit on your problem.  Your actions do not back
    up your words.  He's persistent because although your words say no, 
    your actions are saying, "Uh, gee, well, maybe, um, well..."
    
    Any good salesperson worth their commission knows that ambivalence
    is an open door.  First you have to convince yourSELF that you don't
    want to see him.  Once done, convincing him will be a piece of cake.
    
    Could any old jerk call you up and "convince" you to come to lunch
    or to a "next encounter"?  Probably not.  Would you have touble
    hanging up on them if they persisted beyond your "no"?  Probably
    not.  You are the one who has assigned this particular guy "special 
    treatment" and don't blame HIM if he knows it and is using it in an 
    attempt to get what he wants.  And for the record, I agree with the
    other noter who suggests that what he wants is an ego-stroke that he 
    can still get you, married or not.  In fact, if you were unmarried,
    you might well be much less of a "trophy" to him.
    
    Think it over and then protect both your marriage and your self
    respect.  Think what this bozo is thinking about your  husband,
    ("insignificant little detail"), if what he's thinking about YOU,
    ("pushover - I'll get her - wait and see!"), doesn't make you see
    red.   His behavior is an insult to you, your husband and your
    marriage.  Everytime you are "nice" to this guy you tell him you're
    willing to accept the insult.

    Remember, you don't owe this guy anything.  Not even the time of
    day.  Don't worry about being blunt.  It's a little odd to think
    that someone you were close to once won't respect your values in this
    matter, but it does happen.  So take responsibility, be firm, and
    say no.

    I agree with those who say that one of the most important things
    to remember is that you don't owe him anything.  Even if he really
    loves you, you still don't owe him anything!!  
    
    I've had to be reminded of this before in the past myself, and I
    realized at the time that just because the person in question had
    told me that he loved me, I felt that I owed him something!  (Then
    I remembered that once when I thought I loved somebody who didn't
    love me, that person didn't seem to feel he owed me anything!!)
    
    Like others have said, you've probably been too nice to him so far.
     Practice using the lines Lee put in!!!  They should work! 
    
    Lorna
    

    I also think the "being nice" is a rationalization for buying time.
    Time to fantasize about the "what if", time to dally on the fringes
    of danger.  Time to lust "in your heart" for awhile while appearing
    for all intents and purposes to be a fiercely faithful wife.
    
    Get off the fence and take a stand or you'll find one will be made
    for you and you'll be the only one left thinking you were the innocent
    victim.

    	   	     >>I'm ready for him now!!<<
    
    
   	WOW!!!  Thanks for all this input, I plan on being stronger
    next time, which is what I've been found I've been lacking.  I will
    definitly use the "FOAD" line this time.  I think I was trying to
    let him off nicely and not hurt his feelings, but to hell with
    that now.  He doesn't seem too concerned about me or my feelings
    only self satisfaction on his part.  You've all brought out alot
    of things that I had been thinking in the back of my mind, but I
    just wasn't willing to accept as truth.  So, I'm ready for this
    jerk next time he calls thanks to all of you.  I'm sure he'll think
    he's got the wrong number this time.......
    
    mt

    

    This time he'll know he got the RIGHT number!  Show him what you're
    made of!  You'll be showing your husband and yourself too!  Good
    for you!

    I purposely stayed silent until you had made some sort of choice
    on how to handle the jerk the next time he called.  In reading your
    decision, I give you one big
    
    
    
    
    HIP HIP HURRAY!!!!!
    
    Put the creep in his place and let him know that harrassing you
    about a relationship that is dead and gone is NOT appreciated!!!!!!
    Sue
    

    
    A couple of thoughts, even if late ones.  You odn't have to talk
    to the jerk.  Next time he calls tell him to FOAD and then hang-up
    on him if and when (and I suspect he will) he calls again.  Guys
    like this interpert politeness as interest, thus, civil behavior
    gives them mixed messages.  Like so many have said, you don't owe
    him anything.
    
    Does he have your home number?  If so, change it and have it unlisted.
    That way you minimize his ability to annoy you.
    
    As to calling the police, absent some threats or physical violence,
    I doubt that they can, or if they can, will do anything about the
    problem.  The same goes for getting a restraining order.  And, because
    he is not a family member, member of your household or someone the
    court could fit into that definition, it is much more difficult
    to obtain a restraining order.  I don't believe that your local
    District Court has jurisdiction to issue one.  If my memory serves
    me right, only Superior Courts have jurisdiction for non-"family
    member" cases.  (Perhaps I should explain that I'm an attorney with
    a small practice outside of Digital.)  
    
    Hopefully, this guy is "harmless".  However, if you have any indication
    that this isn't true, make careful note of times, dates, exact
    behaviors etc. and then get some advice on how to get some legal
    protection.
    
    Best of luck!

    If you want an answer from a mans point of view - If the problem
    persists "Call His Wife!". 
 
    He says that they have an open relationship and that she knows he
    has seen you - and what about the dinner invitation...is this all
    really true?                        
    
    I have known many people who use the "I have no/open marriage at the
    moment - no sexlife" etc etc lines. Just to begin an affair and then
    wham bham in the mans case the wife becomes pregnant and the loyal
    husband says "it's my duty to stay with my wife".
    
    If she is so open and has invited you to dinner, call her and say
    "thanks but nothanks" to the invitation, and say that his harrassment
    is causing you grief in your life. In other words "get your old man off
    my back!".
    
    Gauge the real situation and base your actions on it!
    
    Regards and good Luck
    James.
    

    If someone is harrassing you at home via the telephone, especially
    if they're using profane or abusive language, call your local
    telephone company. 
    
    I don't know that they have any legal options that you don't, but
    they've had a lot of practice at discouraging this sort of thing
    through, er, other channels.  
    
    --bonnie 

    re: .27
    
    Many years ago when my (now-ex) husband was in Vietnam, I had a
    problem with a persistant caller.  The police and phone company
    were contacted, and were very helpfull, both giving the same advice.
    
    The phone company said they could put a tracer on the phone, but
    that I would have to then make a court appearance when they caught
    and prosecuted my harasser.  However, both the police and the phone
    company advised just telling the caller that "the police and phone
    company have been called, and a tracer is being put on the line
    - if you call again to will be prosecuted", without actually taking
    any steps.   This was adequate for me - stopped him cold!
    
    The problem with this is that, if it doesn't stop the individual,
    you may *have* to then follow thru.  I didn't know the individual,
    so had no qualms about prosecuting him.  
    
    Linda

    
    Just checking in to let all of you know that you have helped!!!
    I haven't heard from the "Creep" in almost 2 weeks, and that in
    itself is a record.  So, I guess all your advice helped me solve
    this nagging problem.  Sort of like hemmorroids I guess.......
    Well, thanks again for all the support.
    
    mt