Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    I think you want shirts that are 50/50 rather then 100% cotton.
    The cotton ones shrink and do not wear as well. This is what
    my wife says and she has her own tee-shirt business. She doesn't
    do silk screening though so she wouldn't be able to handle this
    particular job.
    
    			Alfred

    Shrinkage depends upon the brand and make of cotton t-shirts.  I've
    certainly had some shrink to something unwearable, but most reputable
    kinds will only shrink "some".  I don't like the pilling I get with
    50/50 or the feel (especially when I perspire), so 100% cotton sounds
    great to me.
    
    Back to the topic:  I'm feeling rather unimaginative today--the
    only slogans are homely and not at all catchy
    
    		Network with Womannotes
    
    		Womannotes: Topics of Interest to WOMEN
    
    Please post something better!  :-)

    Well I kind of like the conference notice that I set..
    
    "all those wonderful women in my life" which is from a 
    Ronnie Gilbert, Holly Near song...but I must admit it doesn't
    specifically relate to this file...:-)
    
    maybe "'all those wonderful people' womannoters of all flavors"
     
    
    also I have recently found that some persons of the female
    gender are offended by the use of the word women or woman...
    should we do shirts with the alternate spelling as well...
    i.e. wimmin and wimmyn...??? I think that there are those who
    are uncomfortable with the latter as well..so I'd prefer to have
    a choice.
    
    This note is entirely 'brainstorming' and open to myriad other
    options and interpretations.. :-)
    
    Bonnie

	Not sure if this is the tone you were looking for, but possibly

		"Another note-able member of the womannotes family"

	as a combination of humor (well, I try, anyway! :-) with community -
	including many thumb-tied ones like me who mostly or solely participate 
	as "readers" rather than "active contributors"....

	Gee, it'd even avoid the gender and spelling problems!  

		Helen

	Um, I've noticed that lavender is becoming as much of a stereotyped
	"girl's color" (no flames, please!) as pink....  How about something 
	vibrant (also nicely symbolic of the conference!) like royal blue, 
	red, (deep) purple, deep green, etc?

    It's also worth considering whether to get at least a couple of
    different colors of shirts. I don't think I'll get one of these
    (I'm drowning in t-shirts as it is, and I find myself more inclined
    to wear regular short-sleeved shirts these days), but if I did,
    I'd just as soon not have a lavender one -- I don't think the color
    suits me. Perhaps other people may feel the same.
    
    Not having ever coordinated a special t-shirt order, I don't know
    if this will affect the cost of the order, but since you'll be
    taking specific orders on sizes, perhaps each person can select
    his or her preferred color as well.
    
    --- jerry

    I third the nomination of Hanes 100% cotton T-shirts.  I've got
    a couple, and they hold up really well.
    
    As far as color, if you choose a neutral color for the design itself,
    there should be no problem with letting people select varied colors of
    T-shirts.  The screening process is totally independent of the color of
    the shirt. 
    
    This is a GREAT idea!
    
    							Pat

    I like wearing darker T-shirts (burgundy, navy, black) - but that's
    just my preference...
    
    please no alternative spellings of women.
    
    how about:
    
    Another note-able member of the family of womannotes
    direct DECendents of Eve...
    
    womannotes - networking at its finest!
    
    Also, if you want to go really overboard, I have a friend (Karen)
    who does tie-dying, and lately she has been experimenting with
    tie-dying silkscreened (black ink on white T's) T-shirts.  I'm sure
    she'd be glad to help out if anyone's interested.
    
    -Jody
    
    

    How about a wedgewood blue color?
    
    I personally like the feel of 100% cotton,too.
    
    not feeling too creative today for slogans...sorry.
    
    p
    

    I vote for 100% cotton, and dark and/or bright colors.  
    Remember the TV show that used symbols for man and woman? How about
    using that symbol with musical notes.
    

    I had thought of a similar type of design - plain and simple.
    
    Womannotes (with 1st "O" depicting the female symbol and the 2nd
    "O" depicting the male symbol).
    
    Perhaps adding one of the aforementioned slogans....
    
    I agree on the vibrant colors as opposed to pastels...

    I don't understand.  This is WOMANnotes, why do we need a male
    symbol.  I can't imagine that MENnotes would have a female symbol.

    
    I'll make sure that we use a vendor who can give some choices of
    color.  Thanks to all who sent info about woman-owned businesses.
    I think we'll be able to choose from the list I've gotten so far.
    I think I am going to go with the 100% cotton idea.  Cotton feels
    really nice, and it won't shrink if you don't put it in the
    dryer.    It's nice to see all the ideas coming in.  I'd like to
    suggest that we keep brainstorming a while longer before we start
    evaluating ideas.  When the time to go to the printer draws near,
    we can take a vote for the favorite slogan and design.
    
    Justine

    re .11
    
    I KNEW somebody was going to comment on why I included a male symbol--
    I didn't want to discriminate against our male contributors so I
    thought it would be courteous to include them-- HOWEVER I wanted
    to put them 2ND because I feel women should be first in this
    conference.
    
    Of course it was just a suggestion....I had no intention of offending
    anybody.
    
    What do the guys think about this?

    
    	RE: .13
    
    	 Well, this man can't see why you'd want a symbol including
    	a male on it. After all, this is WOMANnotes and we males are
    	here as guests, it's YOUR conference.
    
    	my $.02,
    	G_B

    I agree with PLDVAX::BUSHEE, .13, I don't want a male symbol on my
    Womannotes "T" either!  But I would like the brighter colors, not
    pastels. 

    

    I wasn't offended, I said "I don't understand".

    Well, if you use both symbols, an appropriate slogan might be:
    
    "all the voices are needed in the chorus"
    
    
    	bruce

    The Plato system tshirts had something on the back as well as on the
    front (and the messages changed with every new "edition"), but were
    always unique to plato and instantly recognisable by any "plato freak".
    The one I remember best had "Press NEXT to begin" on the front and
    "HELP always available" on the back, both picked out in Maggotbox-type
    orange dots on black. 
    
    All of which is by way of saying that there's no reason we can't have
    something on both sides if we choose...and on the sleeves too, for all
    that!             
    
    I would also suggest that any judging be done without the name of the
    submitter being known to the judges.
    
    						=maggie

RE: .12
    
  > Cotton feels
  > really nice, and it won't shrink if you don't put it in the
  > dryer.    
    
    My solution isn't as elegant, but I just buy XL's and then put them in
    the dryer.  After shrinkage, they end up sufficiently baggy to be
    comfortable, and I don't have to treat them special! 
    
    Also, if you wash any T-shirt inside out it will make the design
    last longer.
    
    							Pat

    can we still get Sanforised tshirts?

Well, this radical lesbian womon wouldn't be caught dead with a male 
symbol on her chest.

                          ^
                         /
Remember, a o without a o is like a   ^    without a  _
            +                        <'\/|           <_____
                                      \/\|            O + O

    Personally, I feel that a man wearing a Womannotes tee with only
    a Venus symbol is a far more powerful statement of support.
    
    --- jerry

    Maybe we need two designs - one FWO and one FGD :-)/2

    If there's not room for both a slogan and a design, I'd
    prefer just a design--although there's room on back if we
    want to do both.

    Definitely bright colors.  I'm one of those who wears
    (mostly) boring clothes to work, so I overcompensate after.

    -- Linda

    Definitely the bright colors!
    
    WN = Ascendant Ideas
    
    Working in a group of 60 men and 5 women I find Womannotes to be
    a special part of my day where the ideas are uplifting and thought
    provoking in a very personal way.

    re .21  Ooh, Catherine...  Perhaps you'll decide to do a design?
          
            I've already had one request for more time from one of
    	    our artists, so if anyone else wants to contribute
    	    something but feels pressed for time, please get in
            touch with me right away.  Also, I need one more
    	    "committee" member to help coordinate this effort.
          
    Here are the slogans we've gotten so far.. lets keep those ideas
    coming.                           
    ====================================================================
    
    		Network with Womannotes
    
    		Womannotes: Topics of Interest to WOMEN
    
    	       "all those wonderful women in my life" 
   
        "all those wonderful people' womannoters of all flavors"
     
           "Another note-able member of the womannotes family"

          Another note-able member of the family of womannotes
          direct DECendents of Eve...
    
                womannotes - networking at its finest!
    
             "all the voices are needed in the chorus"
             
             		WN = Ascendant Ideas
                    
    ================================================================
    OTHER IDEAS
    
    Remember the TV show that used symbols for man and woman? How about
    using that symbol with musical notes.
    
    
    Womannotes (with 1st "O" depicting the female symbol and the 2nd
    "O" depicting the male symbol).
    
             
             

	"Woman of Note"

	Men can have an "Honorary" added to theirs to avoid gender
	identification problems :-).

    You can emulate the ZKO entrance and have someone do
    "Womannotes" in bar code!  :-)   ....just kidding
    
    When I was at Smith College, we had centennial t-shirts that said
    
    "A century of women on top"   !

    At Mt Holyoke we had "Uncommon women" 
    
    Bonnie

    
    I happen to like pastels - especially in the shades of purple area.
    
    For a design I would like a little (-) on the left arm.
    					|
    
    For a slogan
    
    		WOMANNOTES
    
    	    A Place of Our Own
    
    _peggy
    
    		It is only our place if we are willing to support it
    		and to stand up for it to exist.
    
     

>< Note 849.29 by SUPER::HENDRICKS "The only way out is through" >
>                           -< not real suggestions >-
>    
>    When I was at Smith College, we had centennial t-shirts that said
>    
>    "A century of women on top"   !
>

    For historical  completeness,  let me note that the men at Amherst
    (a  college  very close to Smith for you foreigners) had a t-shirt
    printed  that read "A century of men on the bottom" with a picture
    of 4 feet in case anyone missed the joke.

--David

    Gee, David, I didn't realize the Amherst guys needed a GRAPHIC to
    catch the play on words  :-)  :-)

    well, Holly, given what I saw of Amherst men in my time in the 
    valley..I'm not *too* surprised! :-)
    
    Bonnie
    
    (I married a Williams man who knew a good thing when he saw it...
    
    and I promise no more local college in jokes...okay? :-} )

    
    
    	And then there's the unofficial Radcliffe Centennial T -
    
    		"Once a bitch, always a bitch"
    
    	

Re: .11ff can be resolved using .28: "Woman of Note" with Venus icons for one
of the "o"s, and a Mars icon for one of the "o"s in the optional "Honorary".

    Too much of a good thing can be wonderful - Mae West
    
    One is not born a woman, one becomes one - Simone de Beauvoir
    
    The function of freedom is to free somebody else - Toni Morrison
    
    The especial genius of women I believe to be electrical in movement,
    intuitive in function, spiritual in tendency - Margaret Fuller
    (probably too long to go on a t-shirt, but nice anyway)
    
    Also, I have lost my copy of Walt Whitman's Leaves of Grass...if
    anyone looks up "I sing the body electric", his poem, it has a whole
    set of stanzas on women and many lines would be appropriate.
    
    -Jody
    

    How about:

    Womannotes:
    women networking at DEC since 1986
    
    
    liz

    When I thought of this, I had forgotten that men are a part of this
    conference.  Anyway,
    
    "I'm a woman worth noting"
    
    
    D.
    (Mostly read only)

    
    How about:
    
    
                        WOMANNOTES

                A microcosm of the real world

          ... assuming the FWO vote passes ...
    
         =womannotes=	<== a front design using female symbols
           +    +

        " where the softer voices	<== and a suggested motto
                (in the chorus)             showing determination
            WILL be heard ! ! ! "
    
     Color ?  "hunter orange" or perhaps RED (an ASSERTIVE "pink") !
    
    /~~e~~\  Eagles_Prefer_ONE_Conference_Where_Women_Have_"Space"
             ..._Instead_of_Domination_By_Sheer_(male)_Numbers_...

    Most tee shirt places don't restrict the colors, but do the design.
    I really hope that there is a color choice, some of the colors
    mentioned I just wouldn't wear, and I wear a lot of tee shirts.
    
    When is a decision going to be made?????
    

    RE: -.1
		"When is a decision going to be made?????"
    
    The way things are done in =womannotes= is by CONSENSUS !!!!
    
    That means we must have general agreement.  Perhaps it is time
    to find some faster way to achieve consensus ???  Otherwise it
    will be too cold to wear a tee shirt regardless of the color.
    
  /~~e~~\  Eagles_Question_The_Methodology_Behind_Gaining_Consensus_!

    When Justine suggested creating tee shirts, she also asked for
    volunteers to help decide what the shirts should look like. Since
    then, an artist has stepped forward, but has asked for extra time
    to create a design. I believe that work is continuing (Justine is
    researching companies, fabrics, colors, and so on). So please be
    patient. 
    
    e
    
    
    Some_people_wear_tee_shirts_year_round.

    Re when a decision will be made: I think Justine said in .0 that
    she had targeted this Friday (6/3) to make a decision.  
          
    I also overheard the "Woman of Note" suggestion (can't remember
    who said it) and I think it's perfect--simple and to the point.  
    It includes a play on words without being hokey.  I like it!!  And 
    I think "(Honorary) Woman of Note" works too.
                                       
    If it's not enough, we could put that in front and put a quote on
    back.                              
                                       
                                       
    -Tracy                             
                                       

    I'd like to put in a vote for Old English lettering - or a subtle
    slanted italic.  If we are extraordinary enough to be making T-shirts,
    we should choose a similar typestyle :-)
    
    Some thoughts for graphics (none of them definite or solid, of course):
    -some way of interconnecting the letters so as to indicate we are all
    interconnected (networked). 
    -a group of women (and perhaps men), standing about in blouses/skirts 
    shirts/jeans engaged in a discussion, wearing "hearts" on their
    sleeves (symbolizing the openness here) 
    -the chosen phrase for the T-shirt, written in fairly fancy letters
    on a piece of blank paper - with the end of the pen connected to
    a wire which is connected to a terminal instead of the keyboard

    being no artist, I can only describe them - but if anyone wishes
    they are welcome to try and draw them up into a more concrete form
    for use - or adapt them as they wish. 

    -Jody
    

    even as I looked - the last idea came clearer...
    
    the words of choice in fairly fancy lettering on a piece of parchment
    with scrolled ends - the pen that has just written them is a quill
    pen, or a fountain pen.  The end of the pen is attached to the
    terminal, which should be smaller than the paper/pen graphic, and
    off to one side.  The emphasis is on our history (herstory?), our
    roots, of many years of sharing thoughts in notes via various media
    with those who are too far away to speak with - 
    once with pen and ink and parchment, now with electronics.

    -Jody
    
    

My favorite slogan so far is the simple "Topics of Interest to Women"
that greets us when we open the file.

    
    Why not the cute Goddess symbol..?
    
    That would be an inside joke..

    I rather like the idea of including a large smiley face in
    the design, possibly winking.
    
    --bonnie

    	All the ideas sound so great -- this was a fantastic idea (to
    	have Womannotes T-shirts!)
    
    	Looking forward to seeing how they come out!!
    

			WOMANNOTES
		Topics of Interest to Women


			   (-)	the goddess notes all
			    |

    	RE: .52
    
    	Catherine, I like that!!
    
    	(I think the Goddess would be pleased, too.) :)
    

    That's very nice, but I'm afraid I couldn't wear it.
    
    I respect Peggy's and anybody else's right to believe in the
    goddess, but my religious convictions would not allow me to feel
    comfortable wearing a t-shirt that advocates the goddess. 
        
    --bonnie    

    I feel the same way that bonnie does 
    
    Bonnie J

Hope I'm not too late to add this, but ... 

Can we get the shirts that are sort of baggy or drapey and not 
body-hugging?  I like the shape of the very common Tshirts worn by sports
fans, where the neckline rests lightly on the neckline and collar bone and
the material drapes vertically.  I'm not especially comfortable in Tshirts
that that have elastic necks and sleves with body-hugging material 
-- you know, the standard men's Fruit of the Loom. 

Meigs

Plain letters,        Italic Script for 
like terminal         "womannoter"
display characters    |
for "Note>" and       |
"1 of *"              |
              |       |
              |       |
              |       |
              V       v

                 
             Note>  Womannoter
                    1 of *

Plain letters,        Italic Script for 
like terminal         "Womannoter", 
display characters    | 
for "Note>" and       |
"1 of *"              | and O is an image of Earth
              |       |
              |       |
              |       |
              V       v

                 
             Note>  Womannoter
                    1 of O 

	

	It's great to see all these ideas coming in for slogans.  Here's
        an update of where we stand right now.  This message covers:
		o Status
		o Process for choosing a slogan
		o Colors
		o Ordering
		o Schedule

	Status

	1. Liz Augustine, Dotti Davis, and Meigs Glidewell came forward 
	   and volunteered to help me with this project.  (Hooray!)

	2. We've found a vendor who can get 100% (heavy weight) cotton 
           Ts in a variety of colors (More on color later) at a good price. 
	   (actual price depends on number of shirts ordered, but should 
           be well under $10.00 per shirt, probably under $8.00 per shirt.)  

	3. Only one artist has offered to do the artwork for the tshirt,
	   but she has asked for more time to complete the design.  
	   
	
	Process for Choosing a Slogan

	  1. Post all suggestions for slogans to the file (in #849) by 
	     Wednesday, June 8.  (We will write-lock that note at 5:00 
	     on Wednesday.)

	  2. We will post a list with all the slogans on it by Friday, June 10.
	     Each slogan will be numbered, so when you vote for your choice, 
             please refer to the slogan number.

	  3. To "vote" on the slogan you like best, send a mail message 
	     to Liz Augustine (Mewvax::Augustine) by Friday, June 17.  
	     Liz has requested that we include the phrase 
		"Wnotes Tshirts - Slogan # xxx" 
	     in the subject header of our mail messages to her.

	
	  4. We will tally the numbers and post the winning slogan in
	     the file.

	  5. The artist will incorporate the winning slogan in the design
	     for the shirt.  Finished art will be ready by July 15, so
	     we should have the shirts within a week or so after that.

	Colors

	There will be a choice of colors, some pastel, some bright.
	(I haven't got the final list yet, but I'll post it when I do.)
	The vendor said she would order any color available from the
	manufacturer as long as there was sufficient demand for it.  
	For example, if only one person wants orange, we might not
	be able to get it.  So when you order your Tshirt, please specify
	a second choice of color in case your first choice is unavailable.

	Ordering

	We'll start taking orders on July 1.  By then we'll have all the info
	on size, colors, etc.  I think to make this simple, I'll create
	an on-line order form that you can copy and print.  Then you
	can fill out the form and send it with your check.  (But more
	on payment and price stuff in a later message).

	Schedule

		1. Submit your slogan ideas by Wednesday, 6/8.
	        2. Choose your favorite slogan (by number) from 
		   the final list of ideas (posted in the file by 
		   Friday 6/10).
	        3. Vote for your favorite slogan by sending mail
                   to Mewvax::Augustine from Friday 6/10 to Friday 6/17. 
		   (Include the phrase "Wnotes Tshirts - Slogan # xxx" 
		    in the subject header.)
              

    As outlined in the previous note, all slogan suggestions have now
    been submitted, and this note has been write-locked. Slogan selection
    will start in a few days.
    
    Liz Augustine
    for the committee

    Can I claim press-of-work and sneak one in?  Please?  
    
    "digital's network connects more than just _computers_!" 
    
    (with "digital" in logo form of course)                
    
    						=maggie
    

    well, all right, but just this once! actually, if anyone else has
    a last minute suggestion (and doesn't have conference privs), please
    send mail to justine at PNEUMA::SULLIVAN before friday.
    
    liz

    The Womannotes Tee Shirt Slogan Selection Process has begun. 
    Please see Note 21 in Volume 2.
    
    Liz Augustine