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Note 837.0                         Not easy...                        No replies
MSAV01::NIKGHAZALI                                    0 lines   5-MAY-1988 04:29
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    I think you may discuss with the personnel about getting scholarship
    to further your studies. It might not be in History major, but
    something that DEC and you need.
    
    To leave a good job and to start studying again is a kind of gamble,
    you might make it --- success or .....
    
    Nik

kelly, one of the key things, for you to decide is whether
or not you want to take the risk of giving up what you already
have (or don't have) here at DEC, now.

Maybe a way of looking at it is for you to say to yourself:
"What's the worst thing that can happen to me if I leave here,
and my decision doesn't work out the way I had hoped"?

I'm not trying to sway you to one position or another, but,
realistically, you wouldn't be giving up a $100K per year
job if you left.

And I'm fairly certain you could always end up getting a job,
similar to what you're doing now, with another company.

As to what your parents would think, you're an adult - your
responsibility is to yourself and your needs. (It's not as if
you're leaving DEC to become an axe-murderess). :-)

I don't know if you think that 26 is old. Trust me - it's
not. :-) You have a long life ahead of you, to try to do whatever
you might choose.

You're far too young to lock yourself into a lifetime of unhappiness.
 
  Alan

 Kelly,

	You show that you have 8 1/2 years in with this company......
	one thought at this time to ponder at your time in life that
	you might not think relevant......RETIREMENT......you might
	consider sticking out night school for another 1 1/2 years
	with a lighter schedule of courses in order to get your
	10 years in with this company so that you are 100 % vested
	towards retirement with this company.  This might not seem
	to be something important in your present life BUT.........
	later on will be most important for your future life.


				just a thought to ponder....justme, jacqui

    Kelly, 
    
    I left DEC in August of 1986 after 6 1/2 years with the company
    in order to learn how to write novels.  
    
    It was one of the scariest things I ever did.  I debated with
    myself for months before I finally decided that I was going to be
    less unhappy broke and writing than I was well-fed and not
    writing. 
    
    I came back this January due mostly to a factor I had not thought
    of beforehand:  My ideas dried up without the constant stimulation
    of interacting with people.  So I had all the time in the world to
    write and nothing to write about . . . Now I'm trying to learn to
    do both. 
    
    Also, I found that without my own income, my self-esteem went to
    hell.  If I had sold my first novel, I think this might not have
    been a factor.  As it was, I felt like I had been a parasite on my
    husband for long enough.  I was raised to take care of myself and
    I didn't like mooching. 

    I guess the only advice I'd give you based on my experience is
    that you have to think through the alternatives, the financial
    realities and the emotional satisfactions, and decide as best you
    can what you really want to do.  Be honest with yourself; you
    don't have to tell anybody else, but if you don't know what you
    really value and what you really want to do, you'll wind up being
    unhappy no matter which way you decide to go.
    
    No matter which choice you make, there will be times you wish you
    had chosen the other.  That's normal and doesn't mean you really
    made a mistake.  
    
    Decide ahead of time on a time limit when you'll reevaluate
    your options.  Mine was after I finished two novels.  I expected
    that to be two years and it only took 16 months, so you have
    to be flexible, but the idea is to give yourself a fair chance
    to try out the alternatives.

    You might be able to plan ahead.  As Jacqui mentions, you'll
    be 100% vested in the pension plan in only a year and a half.
    That might be worth waiting for.  
    
    I first started thinking about leaving to write in 1985, when my
    son was only 1, but we didn't have the money. Over the next
    several months we decided that my leaving was the right thing, and
    we saved accordingly.  I think I told my supervisor about six
    months before I left, to make sure I had completed all my
    obligations.  (Important if you think you might ever want to come
    back.) 
    
    If you'd like to ask me any other questions, feel free to send
    me mail.
    
    --bonnie
    

  Kelly, you asked, "what are the questions I should be asking myself?"
  How about: Do you want to go to school?  Do you want to learn things?  Do
  you want to escape a job burnout situation?  I think you should try to
  answer these questions separately.

  I've always felt that I learned most of what I know in spite of the 
  formal education system and not because of it.  So I don't believe that
  going to school and learning are equivalent.  If your interest is
  history, you can easily spend the rest of your life trying the exhaust
  the supply of books in a (free!) public library.

  The very best thing about my job at Digital (9+ years in technical
  writing) is that I "have to" spend a great deal of time learning new
  things.  In a sense, I am at a school that pays me to learn.  My
  "exams" are the documents I produce (if I can't explain what I've
  learned to other people, I probably didn't understand it very well).

  Another nice thing about Digital in general is that the company is
  willing to give employees a chance to succeed in an entirely different
  job area.  Maybe you should look around for a job that interests you
  more.

  I firmly believe that there are managers at Digital who would value a
  proven capability for hard work and a willingness to learn.  But you've
  got to go and find these people -- they won't come looking for you.

  The only other advice I can offer is to take some vacation before you
  make a decision.  If the job is driving you crazy, it's real easy to 
  move in the wrong direction just to get free...

  JP

    Some thoughts:
    
    1)  I was under the impression that you could take an educational
        leave for a year, given your manager's approval, even if it
        wasn't for a job-related degree.  (Digital would not pay for
        it, of course.)  If that's the case, that would give you long 
        enough to judge the decision you made and whether you'd rather 
        come back (and take a good chunk out of your degree requirements).  
                                                                          
        If not, perhaps you could take a personal leave for three months
        and just go to school for the summer.  Again, it would give
        you some idea of what you're considering, without closing out
        your options.
    
    2)  Is part-time a possibility?  If you worked say 20 hours a week,
        you'd still have some money coming in, would have more time
        to devote to school, and would not forfeit the time if you have
        invested in Digital.  Might be worth checking out...
    
    T.
     

    I strongly  believe  in  spending  time  studying.  My grandfather
    always  told  me that at least until I was 30 I should put most of
    energies  into  studying. Now I'm 31 and am considering going back
    to  school for a Ph.D. (With luck I'll get GEEP money, I may do it
    even  if  I  don't get the money.) I worked for 4 years between my
    second  and  thid  year  of college. It really made college easier
    because  I  had a social life outside of school, and I had learned
    about responsibility.

    Do consider  other  options.  For example, Digital needs technical
    writers  and has a program where your job is to go to school for 6
    months  to  learn  technical  writing. I think you just missed the
    deadline  for  the  session that starts in Aug., but there will be
    another  one  in  6  months.  People from Manufacturing have first
    priority.

    If you  really  want  to go back to school, I wouldn't worry about
    your pension. You're already 80% vested, and will be 90% vested by
    the  time  you  can start school full time. That's pretty good for
    someone  in  her twenties. You'll have lots of time to worry about
    retirement later, for now, work on finding a job you like.

--David

     thanks for the advice !
    
    the thing is i dont dislike my current job.
    i will never rise any  further as i am not very strong in the "math"
    department...
    a tentative time frame would be january.
    major: history
    minor: MIS (i have taken some programming  basic,COBOL)
    so i would have something to fall back on.
    
    it is just so hard to be a liberal arts person in the computer age.
    
    i dont know maybe i am just lazy  wanting it to go faster than it
    is.i am only now realizing my mistakes i made by dropping out of
    high school at 16.
    
    kelly
    

    Re: .8
    
    >major: history
    >minor: MIS (i have taken some programming  basic,COBOL)
    
    Hooray!  Mine was a double major in history and computer science;
    I'm more than willing to encourage the combination.
    
    >so i would have something to fall back on.
    
    Yes, that's one of the things that holds me back from a masters
    in history - what would I do with it except teach?  I don't know
    if I *want* to teach.  However, don't sell yourself short on the
    liberals arts part.  History also encourages analytic skills, but
    with a different emphasis.  Rather than a simple 'cause and effect'
    outlook, it considers different contributory factors and weighs
    their importance.

    Kelly,
    the first thing I'd ask is,  what are my financial obligations?
    am  i supporting a house, kids, husband, parents, whatever?
    if not,, go for it!  once you are financially committed, you'll
    have a much harder time breaking away.
    
    it seems to me that assuming you are good at your job, and could
    get good reccomendations, dec should let you have a 1 year educational
    leave.  if not, given your background, and the trouble I remember
    in finding "good" people for manufacturing line jobs,  you'll never
    have a problem finding a new job.  if you leave dec to go to school,
    then you'll have first priority in getting hired back.  and don't
    forget, "college hires" are always in demand, even in hireing freezes.
    
    another option is to look for another job.  that's what i did. 
    i had to choose between going back to school or taking a new job.
     well i love the job i took,  but i bought a house,  and now i don't
    feel able to return to school w/o support from GEEP.  if i had it
    to do over again,  i'd go to school.  as time passes,  your obligations
    usually increase, and it can become real difficult to take that
    financial risk in attending school.
    
    if you do, don't forget us.  most universities are connected to
    the enet somehow,,and you can send us updates, particually when
    you want to return.  if you stay,  but want to explore new postions,
    let us know.  ther's a wide range of people out here,  and maybe
    we can help you find something.
    
    mary

    re: MIS/history combination
    
    The State University of NY at Binghamton offers a combined
    history/management program at both the undergraduate and graduate
    levels.  At the graduate level, the program leads to an MA in
    history and an MBA in whatever specialty you prefer; MIS is one of
    them but finance is the most popular. 
    
    My husband has this combination of degrees and it prepared him
    well for the analytical and design aspects of software
    engineering. Traditional programs are sometimes a bit weak in
    those skills. 
    
    --bonnie

    
    
    My BA is in History, I returned to school at age 27 (or there abouts).
    
    I would second the idea about doing a semiester or one year full-time
    days before completely cutting the cord with DEC.  Most universities
    have DEC equipment that needs to be taken care of by someone who
    knows something about them - so look into work study programs at
    the schools you are interested in.
    
    The best thing is to talk to a knowledgeable personnel person about
    what options you might have.
    
    Good luck - I am waiting to get my MA in History until my kids are
    past their undergrad years.
    
    
    _peggy
    
    		(-)
    		 |
    			May the Goddess in you give you strength
    			to pursue your dreams.
    
    

    Kelly, you mention being tired after a days work, and finding school
    hard for that reason.  Is there a possibility you could attend 
    classes in the morning, and work second shift ? ( I don't know
    if this applies to your job, but I work in a manufacturing plant,
    and they're always crying for help on 2nd.)
    
    Dana (who is finding evening courses tough also)

    I left a company (not DEC) to return to school for a certificate
    in computer programming, after already having a B.S.  It IS a scary
    but rewarding thing to do -- particularly to go full time, which
    would be an exciting experience for you, given that you left school
    at 16 as you mentioned.
    
    .6 in particular brings up some very good points -- DEC might give
    you an unpaid educational leave for a year, or even 3 months for
    you to try it out and see how you like it.  I would encourage you
    to consider a leave of absence before quitting -- the fact that
    you'll be fully vested in 1 1/2 years will be VERY important and
    something you'll appreciate down the road.  I don't agree with the
    earlier reply that you'll have many years towards retirement --
    anything you can do now to facilitate your later years will make
    it much that easier down the road.
    
    Reread .6 if you will -- and then explore those options with personnel
    and your management as you choose. 
    
    Best of luck,
    Lynn