Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    I just read an article in the Boston Globe about the Church's position
    paper on women's roles.  I found it very interesting that they had
    no problem saying that women have been the victims of sexism by
    limiting their roles in the Church, but that they would not recommend
    allowing women to be ordained priests because traditionally only
    men have held those roles.  That's what I like, the "we've always
    done it that way so it must be right" approach.  
    
    I guess they are making progress in at least admitting that there
    is sexism, but I'm getting real tired of hearing our priest preach
    about the lack of priests and how small parishes will be forced
    to close because young men are not joining the priesthood as often.
     Makes me want to shout "what about the women -- there are plenty
    that would take the role of priest."
    
    

    the article also said that even though the catholic church supports
    "equal rights" for women, it opposes the e.r.a. because the ammendment
    could possibly be used at some point to justify abortion.
    
    liz

Note:


For those interested in commenting on the paper, it should be 
mentioned that a member of the committee of bishops who had the
paper written for the entire assembly of bishops is
auxiliary bishop Alfred Hughes of the Archdiocese of Boston.

Bishop Hughes administers the affairs of the Lowell region
in the Archdiocese reporting to Cardinal Law.  Formerly, Bishop
Hughes was rector of the seminary - St. John's in Brighton.

Letter can be addressed to :


                      Bishop Alfred Hughes

                         Archdiocese of Boston

                       2121 Commonwealth Ave.

                            Boston, Ma.

    RE: .0
    
    This is just one of the reasons that I am no longer a Catholic.
    Their views on women (in general) are chauvenistic, to say the
    least.  What makes them say that only men can be celibate?  It's
    the most riduculous thing I've ever heard.  I would think that 
    quite the opposite would be true - that men have more difficulty
    being celibate than women.  This is not based on fact - only my
    own opinion.
    
    Sue

    hi......
    
    I'm new to NOTING, and I'd like to respond here. I was brought
    up in a VERY Catholic household. After growing into my own as 
    an adult, I can no longer identify with the Catholic religion.
    The views expressed by this religion no longer fit my values.
    I am FOR everything the relgion is against (birthcontrol,
    abortion, gay rights, womens rights, ect). 
    I suppose as I get closer to senior citezenhold, I"ll search
    for a religion closer to my own values.
    
    pat
    

    Re: .5
    
    >What makes them say that only men can be celibate?
    
    Actually, they don't.  I believe nuns also take vows of celibacy.

    Re .7
    No, nuns (and monks, as well as priests of religious orders) take
    vows of chastity - refrain from sex, as well as poverty and obedience.
    
    Dioscean priests take vows of celibacy - never to marry.
    
    Obviously, many women have been celibate - in fact, an unmarried
    prostitute is technically celibate, but I don't think this is what
    the church had in mind.
    
    The main argument I've heard against female priests is that priestesses
    are "too pagan" for the church to consider.  Never mind all of the
    other pagan customs that have crept into the church over the past
    2 millennia.
    
    Elizabeth

    RE: .7 AND .8
    I realize that priests, nuns, monks, etc. do take vows of chastity
    - that is to say - celibacy.  However, I know many priests and nuns
    that do not honor that vow.  I have known priests who have not only
    broken their vow but who have been with women and the result was
    a pregnancy.  They, however, did not feel that they had to take
    any responsibility for their actions.  Seems very hypocritical to
    me.  There is also a very high rate of homo-sexuality among priests
    and nuns.  How do they justify that????  It certainly isn't celibacy.
    
    Sue
    

    
�    The main argument I've heard against female priests is that priestesses
�    are "too pagan" for the church to consider.  

       Actually I believe that the main reason is that St. Paul (Epistle
       to the Ephesians? my Bible is at home) stated explicitly that
       women should not be allowed to speak in Church.

       A priest who isn't allowed to preach would be a somewhat useless
       functionary wouldn't she?

       /. Ian .\

    RE .-1
    
    >Actually I believe that the main reason is that St. Paul (Epistle to
    >the Ephesians? my Bible is at home) stated explicitly that women should
    >not be allowed to speak in Church. 
    
    But, they already allow women to to the Bible reading (all speaking),
    and to distribute communion (which requires a little speaking),
    and even have some pastors of churches that are nuns (due to the
    shortage of priests).  It seems that all that a priest can do that
    a lay minister or nun can't do is to consecrate the host and to
    hear confessions.  Not really adding much.
    
    Elizabeth

    in re .10
    
    In Paul's time there were women who were active in the church. The
    prohibition that you refer to referred to one particular situation
    where the early church was trying to distinguish itself from women
    who we would now associate with Goddess religions.
    
    Bonnie

    Last week's ' Newsweek ' had an article on the Bishop's pastoral
    ..
    
    I am waiting to receive the full text and read it carefully ...
    
    I am heartned though that the male leadership in the church
    speaks out against sexism and begins [ albeit slowly ] to seek
    redress .... calling for redoing of texts to utilize inclusive
    language and to include women in nearly all areas of church life.
    
    Also, the draft speaks of the challenge to all men to reflect on
    their attitudes towrad women in family, business, and the church.
    
    
                  

    RE:  .13
    
    Seems to me that they are beginning to address this important 
    subject, too late and haven't kept up with changing times and 
    issues.  The role of women in the Catholic Church is one of 
    pure servitude with no status whatsoever with regard to the
    hierarchy.
    
    Sue
    

    I am always amazed at the seriousness with which these institutions
    are taken.  No church has any legal ability to impose their will
    on a person, so if they don't support what I am - I don't support
    them.  Simple!  Why even care if some bishop somewhere is a little
    old fuddy-duddy and is still living in the last century?  
    
    The only impact I ever fell from any of this is the time wasted
    during news casts, when I could be hearing about something important
    that's happening somethere instead of listing to some outdated view
    of an outdated institution.
    
    (Can you tell I'm not catholic?)
    
    

    RE: .15
    
    It is unwise to ignore the power of the Catholic church.  You and I
    might not be Catholic, but many of the leaders of this and other
    countries are.  It is too easy for people justify their opinions in
    terms of the church's teachings:  a great many people will actually be
    swayed by such arguments.  Such arguments have been used to protest the
    teaching of sexuality and birth-control methods in schools and the
    legality of abortion.  The word of the church may not be law, but it
    has the same or greater power of the lives of *millions* of people.
    
    								-- Mikey

As previously reported, the U.S. bishops issued a draft of their
pastoral letter addressing the concerns  raised by women.  This letter
is entitled:  "  Partners in the Mystery of Redemption:  A pastoral
response to women's concerns for church and society ".  The letter was
released April 12.  It is 24 pages long with 5 pages addended as
footnotes that refer to other documentation and the meetings held over
the past three years to elicit input from groups of women and men.


It is a formdiable task to type in the whole document...  I do however
recommend it to all for a careful reading.  The bishops speak to all
about sexism, responsibility, education, attitudes, change, language,
etc.  

A few samples are quoted here for illustration purposes. I preface each with
the paragraph number in the text...


# 2..."  This task has led us collectively to a profound examination of 
conscience, a call to conversion, and a call for action."

# 8 ..." ..We were asked repeatedly not to write this pastoral as if women
were the problem, but to focus solely on the sources of discrimination
against women in church ans society ... "

# 22 .. "  The theme of partners in personhood thus undergirds not one but
all of the concerns women expressed in relation to church and society.. "

#  39 .. " ..When anyone believes that men are inherently superior to
women or that women are inherently superior to men, then he or she is guilty
of sexism.  Sexism is a moral and social evil. "

#  113 .. " . We believe that the family will only be strengthened to the 
degree that husbands and wives become partners in parenting .. "

#  168  .." .. In this light, we reject all punitive or prejudicial
attitudes that persist toward women, all stereotypes that subtly per-
petuate injustices, all practices that make women feel as if they are not
fully accepted by the church.  We acknowlege those women who have raised the
hard questions which we as a church in a free society must dare to answer.
If justice for all is to prevail, ongoing dialogue with those who feel most
marginalized must continue. .."

#  173 .. " ..The education of boys and men must stress respect for the 
personal integrity of women and impress on males the sinfulness of violence
and every form of sexual exploitation .."


#  225 .. " ..In the light of Jesus' teaching and practice, we reject
actions by which women have been undervalued,subordinated, made objects of
suspicion, condemnation, condescension or simply ignored.  Clericalism in
pastoral ministry often expresses patronizing attitudes that need to be 
eliminated.  Men and women must work together as responsible, capable
persons for the common good of church and society.  We intend, therefore,
to ensure that women are empowered to take part in positions of authority
and leadership in church life in a wide range of situations.."

#  




              My reading is that the bishops are sincere in their
basic rethinking of how women and men should share in a partnership
in church and society.  This letter is progress..........