| Title: | ARCHIVE-- Topics of Interest to Women, Volume 1 --ARCHIVE |
| Notice: | V1 is closed. TURRIS::WOMANNOTES-V5 is open. |
| Moderator: | REGENT::BROOMHEAD |
| Created: | Thu Jan 30 1986 |
| Last Modified: | Fri Jun 30 1995 |
| Last Successful Update: | Fri Jun 06 1997 |
| Number of topics: | 873 |
| Total number of notes: | 22329 |
The following note was written by a member of our community who
wishes to remain anonymous at this time.
=maggie
================================================================
I am entering this note because I am having an extremely difficult
time understanding my soon to be ex-wife's feelings, emotions,
actions, etc. concerning our impending breakup. I would like to try
and understand her position a little bit better and would greatly
appreciate a woman's point of view on our predicament. Of course I
am writing this from my point of view, however, I will try and
refrain from personal opions and will try and make the description
as objective as possible. Here is my story.
We met while I was a sophomore and she was a freshman at a state
engineering school. Being an engineering school, the male to female
ratio was very lopsided -the ratio was about 7 males to 1 female or
there abouts. Our first encounter was truly a night to remember. My
roomate asked a few people over to our dorm room for a party. She
showed up with her roommate. She was a petite attractive Italian
girl and we hit it off instantly. I would characterize our first
encounter as love at first sight , at least it was for me. It was a
very new and strange sensation for me to get that carried away on a
first meeting. Up until this time I had never had a girlfriend. It
wasn't because I wasn't looking, but it was because I had never meet
anybody that I thought I'd like to spend any appreciable amount of
time with. Then bang. It it me like a ton of bricks. This may
seem strange, but I recall on that first night thinking to myself
that I was going to marry this girl.
We were very attached to each other and spent all most all of our
free time together while we were at school. I finished up school,
got a job and went to work at a company in the area. She was a bit
behind academically and although she was only a year behind me, she
was actually a little bit closer to two years before graduating.
She continued on for another semester while I was at work but that
was her last semester. She never graduated nor did she ever wanted
to graduate. Looking back, I can only guess that she stayed in
school as long as she did because of me. After dropping out of
school, she went to work for a bank.
During school we were happy go lucky. I mean how could you not be
happy go lucky while being in college? In college you have little
of the day to day worries most people have. The most you usally
worry about is where the party is going to be next Friday night.
All you want to do in college is have a good time and get in some
studying. Although we had some ups and downs, we were happy
together.
After college, I started my professional career. At this point you
start wondering where you are going to fit into this world. I had a
good job and I could start to see some future professional positons
that maybe I would like to attain at some point in my life. To this
end, I enrolled in a night time masters program after a year on the
job. In addition to the school, I started taking up some new
hobbies. I had always played alot of basketball and I started to
pick up some new hobbies like windsurfing and skiing. At first I
would always try and take her along with me to do some of these new
activities, but after a while I ended up prefering not taking her.
When she was along I often felt as if I was pushing her into
something she didn't want to do. Of course I cared for her deeply,
so I would always be thinking of whether or not she was enjoying
herself. After a while it was better not to take her so I wouldn't
have to feel for two people. I remember being on a ski trip out
west with a friend of mine (she wasn't there) and thinking to myself
how I would like to be here with somebody who enjoys this as much as
I do. Looking back, I can't honestly say whether or not she would
have enjoyed it. Maybe it was something in side in my own mind that
said she wouldn't like it, however, I tend to think that she just
didn't like doing that sort of thing.
This is pretty much how we continued our relationship during the
ensuing years. I would be off physically and mentally doing what I
liked to do while she did the same. It was almost at the point
where almost the only thing we both seemed to be enjoy comfortable
together was going out to restaurants and even that became a chore
as to which one to go to. We started developing different tastes in
movies, television programs etc. It was if we were trying to live
two separate lives while being under the facade of being together.
We would attend social gatherings together but we didn't seem to be
sharing our lives together. And isn't that what being together
really means- sharing each others lives together and not just being
together? Although I feel this was what was happening, we continued
on in this relationship in this vein with neither on addressing any
of the issues. I think the reasoning was that as long as we weren't
fighting -we never argued, then everything was alright.
We got engaged and a year and a half later we got married. None of
the issues ever did pop up. Speaking for myself, marraige was like
being suffocated. Now all of a sudden I could see what the future
was going to be like if I stayed with her. It would have been
filled with burning questions like -honey where are we going out to
dinner this evening? ( a bit of sarcasm in case it wasn't apparent.)
Not that this isn't a common problem amongst couples, but I just
would have felt that this would have been the most important topic
of conversation in our relationship. For me, I would prefer to talk
about some current political events or maybe work or what new
activities to pick up (I'll try anything), but we just never would
have had that type of relationship or communication between us.
Subsequently, I felt as though I was drowning.
Of course she could sense something was amiss and questioned me
about my true feelings. I couldn't give her the answers she wanted
to hear. It was decided that maybe I should go off and find out
what was really going on inside me and I was to leave the next
morning. However, when I got home from school that evening, my bags
were packed and the locks to the door had been changed. I went away
that evening with suitcase in hand. During the next few months, I
sent her a few letters trying to describe how I was feeling. I
found an apartment soon after being locked out.
After this whole ordeal I am still left with a number of nagging
questions.
Why would she lock me out of the apartment? She says she changed the
locks on the door to make me think about what I was doing and what I
was throwing away if I were to leave. At the time, it was decided I
should go off and find out what my true feelings were.
Besides locking me out (an indication to me that she didn't want me)
she was the one to push for the divorce. She got a lawyer rather
quickly and was the one to file the papers. Yet, to this day she
still places most if not all the blame of breaking up on me.. I
can't figure. What is strange is that during the relationship I felt
at crucial times I was the one making all the amends to make the
relationship go and she felt as if she were the one who was always
making the amends to make the relationship work.
I did get the chance to talk to her recently and she still is
extremely bitter and she harbors great resentment towards me. She
even went so far as to say that I ruined her life. It certainly
isn't easy for me to know that someone feels this way towards me.
Why would she feel this way towards me? All I every wanted to do
was make her happy, but at some point in our relationship I realized
I had to be happy too. If I wasn't happy with myself how could I
make her happy? I always felt that I treated her with great care
and she has done things with me that she would have never done
otherwise. I would like to think that I broadened her horizon. But
I now know (at least think I know), she was happy just doing her day
to day thing. She liked to do things that I thought was mundane and
trite. It seems that she didn't want to grow into anything more than
what she already was, whereas I feel like I want to continue to grow
forever. Still, I can't figure out way she has such contempt for me.
I could see if I ran out on her or that I had an affair or that I
had another girlfriend but I didn't do any of these things. I have
never done any of those things while we were going out.
Needless to say, I suspect the divorce settlement is going to be
filled with ill will. Because of her resentment towards me, I feel
that she is going to try to hurt me in the divorce. I still haven't
received any of my personal belongings obtained before the marraige
and I am left with more debt than I think I should have to service.
I don't want to appear as if I'm griping but I do want equity. I
think if I could somehow turn her hostilities around, maybe I would
get a better shot at getting back some of stuff. I also would hate
to continue on knowing that she still hates me. I realize this is
going to be difficult especially since she refuses to talk to me.
| T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 797.1 | sad story | IPG::HUNT | well I ordered new ones anyway.. | Mon Apr 11 1988 06:55 | 21 |
What a sad story.
My main impression is that you didn't really see this woman as an
individual with her own likes and needs. You seemed to want to
mould her into something that she wasn't, and to almost FORCE her
to enjoy the things you liked yourself. Surely she had SOME things
about her that you liked? Something she was good at? I couldn't
find anything in your story which gave me to think you admired anything
she did. She didn't even graduate for instance. Maybe she didn't
feel this was necessary for her. Did she see this as the obvious
failure that you did?
Apart from her physical beauty you didn't seem to praise anything.
In you last paragraph you still want to manipulate her. You want
to bring her round so you can get some of your material possessions
back. She comes out as being your puppet, with you pulling all
the strings.
I was surprised that you actually got married, because you seem
to have noticed her 'shortcomings' before marriaged. You must have
needed her?
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| 797.2 | HEFTY::CHARBONND | to save all Your clowns | Mon Apr 11 1988 08:52 | 13 | |
At this point (with her not even willing to talk) I would have
to recommend a pragmatic course of action, starting with a good
lawyer. You can get your "things" back.
It's easy to be in/maintain a relationship when you have a lot
in common, such as college all day long. When you don't, either
you have a strong commitment to maintaining a relationship, based
on what you *do* have in common, or you find another person, with
interests closer to your own. The first supposes that the things
you have in common are important enough to make the process
worthwhile. Attitudes, sense of life, affection, will do it.
Physical attraction seldom does. This is where the difference between
love and infatuation will show up clearest.
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| 797.3 | JENEVR::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Mon Apr 11 1988 13:02 | 25 | |
Re: .1
You know, that was an awfully predictable response. And when it's
that predictable, it makes me wonder how much of it is knee-jerk
and how much of it is analysis. BTW, in case you haven't noticed,
everyone is manipulative. If being manipulative means wanting to
make things be the way you want them to, then *everyone* is
manipulative.
Re: .0
Sometimes love ain't enough.
It sounds like two people living together but not growing together.
Without getting your wife's point of view, it's hard to say what
happened. You say that you feel like you've been doing all the
work in making amends. This might be true. On the other hand,
you might not have recognized the things your wife was doing. What
is perfectly obvious to her might not be perfectly obvious to you,
and vice versa.
As far as you ruining her life goes, that's an exaggeration (one
might even call it a manipulative exaggeration). You might have
created pressures or influences, which make you culpable to a degree,
but in the end your wife makes her own decisions.
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| 797.4 | 57393::GROSSE | Mon Apr 11 1988 15:14 | 5 | ||
RE .0
Heard a lot about the writer in the note but anything about your
wife was very sketchy almost as though she were just a shadow in
your life; and perhaps that is how she felt...
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| 797.5 | SUPER::HENDRICKS | The only way out is through | Mon Apr 11 1988 16:21 | 58 | |
Reading your story felt like reading one of those magazine articles
where each spouse writes their story. I usually read the first one and
identify with everything that is said, and then I read
the second one and realize how complex the issues are and how
differently the same events were viewed and experienced.
I tried to imagine what your wife's story would be like because I had a
strong feeling that it would feel very tangential to yours and leave me
with the feeling that the two people involved weren't seeing one
another as they are today, but seeing projections of one another
developed during (and appropriate for) the college years.
Your wife's actions sound like she is hurt, and that she has given
up. I think it would be important to think back over the years
you were together and try to remember statements she made about
herself, her goals, and her dreams. Did she fulfill any of them?
What made her happy? Unhappy?
She may be someone whose goal is to play cards a couple of times a
week, and watch tv the rest of the time. Alternatively, she could be
someone who is very creative, energetic and outgoing if seen on her own
terms, but next to you (who loves constant challenge and stimulation)
appears to be lethargic. I could imagine her as someone who is an
expert quilter, for example, yet to you quilting doesn't 'count'
because it's not something that exists in your world. (I use that
example because that was true for a friend of mine. He had no idea
that his wife was viewed as an expert on antique needlecrafts by
experts in the field because to him, needlework was almost invisible.)
I also thought of a quote from a favorite book, Other Women, by
Lisa Alther about a relationship that had broken up.
p. 190
Brian smiled. "Your marriage wasn't much fun, I gather?"
"When we were dating, it was daffodils and chocolate ice cream sodas,
the Boston Symphony, Jimmy's Harborside, weekends of passion in
Hyannis. We read Emerson and Thoreau and discussed them, listened
to Bach fugues together. But after we married, that man vanished.
Jackson became a phantom....I felt like a piece of furniture. I
couldn't figure out where I'd gone wrong. I cooked well, kept the
house neat and comfortable, ironed his shirts the way he liked,
polished his shoes, made love whenever he wanted. Dressed carefully,
exercised at a figure salon, rinsed with Scope. It was almost as
though Jackson wanted to outfit a house with wife, children and
accessories, so he could move on to his next project."
This may not have anything to do with your situation, but your basenote
made me think of it since you asked what might be going on for the
woman involved.
Anyway, good luck. I hope you get what you need, whether it's your
possessions, an equitable settlement, a level of understanding with
your wife that feels good, insight. Please keep us posted.
Holly
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| 797.6 | Forgiving ourselves | PLANET::OCONNOR | Fri Apr 15 1988 14:06 | 54 | |
In reading your story I had two flashes of insight that I would
like to share with you. In parts of your story you discribe a
situation of being "done to" - I call that my old "door mat" or
victim mentality. When I feel like this, I know I need to do some
forgiveness work with the person I am blaming as well as some
forgiveness work with myself.
Here is a quote that may interest you - it is from LOVE IS LETTING
GO OF FEAR by Jerry Jampolsky.
"Have you noticed how often you feel that you are victim of the
world in which you live? Because most of us perceive aspects
of our surroundings as insane, we are tempted to feel helplessly
caught in a trap. When we allow ourselves to think we are living
in an unfriendly environment where we must fear being hurt or
victimized, we can only suffer.
TO BE CONSISTENT IN ACHIEVING INNER PEACE, WE MUST PERCEIVE A
WORLD WHERE EVERYONE IS INNOCENT.
What happens when we choose to see others as free from guilt?
How can we begin to look at them differently? To begin with,
we might have to look on everything in past as irrelevant
except the Love we have experienced. We could choose to see
the world through the window of Love rather than the window of
fear. That would mean we would selectively choose to see the
beauty and the Love in the world, people's strengths rather
than their weaknesses."
My other insight comes from the work I've done in Core Groups.
In my Core Group work, I learned the connection between what
people think of me (She thinks I ruined her life) and my
own rage is the result of my own "buying into" the other
perception. We need to see how we buy into other peoples
perceptions of us and work at letting them go - this is
what forgiving ourselves is all about.
I hope I've helped!
It comes from the heart.
Sharon
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| 797.7 | Role Reversal | SALEM::TWEEDY | Wed Apr 20 1988 16:24 | 21 | |
It seems to me that you were totally unaware of what and who your wife
is. I think role playing would have helped the both of you to better
understand each other. From my experiences, I have found it
unnecessary to share "all" hobbies and interests. Love and mutual
respect is all that is needed for a healthy relationship. From
what I gather you did not have to much respect for your wife. Did
you expect her life to revolve around you?
You ask why she acts so defensively. I think the answer is obvious.
It's her wounded pride, and not pride alone. She is still in love
with you, although she may deny it. Once when I was in a similiar
relationship I acted very much the same way. Although I was still
in love, I couldn't see beyond my pride, and I lost someone that
was very special to me by acting rude and curt, instead of saying
what I really felt inside.
Obviously you don't care to salvage your relationship, as your only
concern is regaining material posessions. I think if you bear in
mind that your wife still cares for you, and treat her accordingly,
thinking of her feelings, rather than your own, you may be able
to calm the situation down enough to have a fairly amicable divorce.
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