Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    Remember the old joke that goes:
    
    "(insert current sex-goddess here), never farts, she just goes up 
    to heaven and rings a little bell!"?
                                                          
    I'm all for anything that would help men see how human women really
    are.  I know how nice the fantasies must be by comparison but since
    women have to live in the real world, we kind of want men to, too.
    
    I think it's a good thing.  I think bathrooms should have privacy
    built into them for PEOPLE, (individual stalls), but the bathrooms 
    themselves, the very concept of bathrooms, (and what they are for), 
    should be simply for the needs of everybody - all humans with the same 
    human needs.  Don't forget we're talking about public places - not
    the only place you'll ever get to take a bath - but the places you may 
    very well need one day to take a quick whizz...
    
    We all live in homes with unisex bathrooms.  Most of us pretty much 
    have a good idea what the other sex does in the bathroom.  Public 
    segregation is a response to perceived public desires that people
    don't really want to know, would rather not know, and perhaps would
    maybe just rather assume doesn't occur.
    
    I wouldn't protest having one mega-sized bathroom rather than having
    one over-used and one under-used, with the one over-used designated
    for me.
    

    No thank you.  I prefer privacy from unauthorized males.  I am not
    in this world to educate men about women.  They can learn to clean
    up the sinkin a male-only bathroom too.  
    
    There are many ways in which I feel freer in an all-female environment,
    and want to keep it that way.  Not my doing--it's male behavior that's
    made it so. 

    Nina

    I think this unisex business has gone too far.  I feel there still
    should be places where men can talk "men talk" and woman can talk
    "girl talk" without feeling uncomfortable.  Not all women and men
    care to walk around half dressed or nude.  When it was mentioned
    that we all share unisex bathrooms at home, that's true. *But* only
    one person is in there at a time. The door is closed for privacy.
    I know some people who tell me that they take showers and their
    teenages or other members think nothing of walking in to use the
    john.  Coed bathrooms in dorms are not with family members either.
    I respect other people's privacy.   I belong to a health club and
    in the womens locker room there are dressing rooms for privacy and
    all shower stalls have doors.  Some women parade around nude all
    the time and even put their makeup on and do their hairstyles nude.
    To me they feel a need to expose themselves or they get turned on
    by it. Don't know why but other women there feel as I do, our body
    is private and we share with our husbands and that's it!  To each
    his own but I don't think they will ever have coed restrooms in
    public buildings.  There would be a loud resistance!
    
    
    
    

    My opinion...it should be private pertaining to "persons", such as
    private stalls for showers and private stalls for toilets. <humor on> I
    don't think anyone is suggesting that the bathrooms should all be open
    so we can all stare at the opposite sex while they are cleansing and
    urinating <humor off>, but in some situations a uni-sex bathroom is
    more convenient. 
    
    In college, I lived in an all female dormitory, where both the
    stalls for showers and toilets were private.  It was understood
    that the bathrooms were coed because of male visitors.  We never
    had a problem with it.  People respected each others privacy and
    nobody intruded on that privacy.  Some times co-ed bathrooms can
    work - but had it been an official co-ed bathroom of the University
    I am sure the parents would have shown loud "resitance".
    
    I belong to a health club that has private showers/dressing rooms in
    the womens locker room but not in the men's locker room. (I know I like
    to cleanse in private - don't men?) However when I do change I don't
    bother using the stalls, like some women do. It is just a matter of
    convenience.  I am not embarrassed by changing in front of others, nor
    would am turned on by this either (<humor on>to say that a woman is
    turned on by parading around other women in the nude is like saying a
    man who wishes to use an open urinal as opposed to a closed stall is
    turned on by exposing his genitals to other men <humor off>.)  I do
    however turn away if someone is changing in front of me to respect
    their privacy if they wish it. 
                                     
    
    I have used the men's bathroom numerous times when nobody was looking
    because the women's line was a mile long and I just couldn't hold it
    any longer.  And then there was the time that I used the men's room
    thinking it was the women's room, came out of the stall and almost
    fainted of embarrassment when I saw a man standing in front of the
    urinal.                                                
    
    

I went to graduate school in Stockholm.  All the dorms had unisex bathrooms.
They were tiny rooms (about the size of a sofware-support cubicle)  with
shower, sink, toilet, medicine cabinet, and door.  I had one in my room.
(Everybody had one in their room.)  Worked fine.  In many public buildings,
the "restroom" facilities consist of a row of private cubicles with toilet
and sink.  No "sex markings" on the doors.

All Swedish student rooms are "singles."  The Swedes think that single adults
should have a private rooms.  Most dorms are as I described.  Some consist
of two rooms with a small common area and a shared bathroom.  These are
usually for couples (or single parents with kids).

All Stockholm dorms (except for one 10-room dorm in an old downtown
building) are co-ed.

Martin.

    Reply to .4, Desharnais,
    
    Small nit, please don't be upset...
    
    "Men" talk as opposed to "girl" talk?

    > Some women parade around nude all the time and even put their
    > makeup on and do their hairstyles nude. To me they feel a need
    > to expose themselves or they get turned on by it.
    
    You mean that it's a completely alien concept to you that some
    people simply aren't bothered by others seeing them in the nude?
    
    You you feel it silly if someone made the same claim about people
    who walk around nude in front of their cats?
    
    I'm sure that there are people out there that feel that way.
    
    "If God meant people to walk around naked, they'd be born that way."
    
    							--- anon.
    
    --- jerry

    My sister once visited UMass when they had coed bathrooms.  She
    thought the only peculiar thing that took getting used to was seeing
    the feet point both ways in the stalls.
    
    -Jody
    

    The dorm I lived in at MIT was arraged in suites; 4 - 6 rooms (one
    of which being a double or triple, the rest singles) with a lounge,
    kitchen, and one or two bathrooms (depending on the number of people)
    In order for a suite to be coed it had to be 50% +/- one person.
    Anyway, as for the bathroom, generally the coed suites would put
    a reversible sign on the door to indicate its current "sex".
    When unoccupied the door was usually left open. Thus it was much
    the same as most family bathrooms: unisex, but only one sex at a
    time.
                                                   
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    I prefer separate restrooms. I wouldn't want women walking past
    me while standing there relieving myself.
    
    To reply .1, The better solution to the over-crowded women's room
    is to push for 2 women's rooms for every 1 men's room in all places
    where crowds gather. (i.e. rockconcerts, function halls etc.)
    
    jack

    Geez, if I walked into a MEN's room I don't think I would recognize
    the furniture......what are those anyway?   Waterbubblers?
    
    

    This whole question reminds me of the metric system in America.
    Its a perfectly good idea, in many ways better than the current
    system. But I just can't see most people adjusting to it. And even
    if it was introduced in the schools, it would lose against whatever
    you do at home.
    
    Yep, some days I do see the weirdest parallels. Its been a long
    week. I personally wouldn't mind the idea if introduced GRADUALLY.
    
    And about semi-nudity, obviously some folks aren't shopping at Filene's
    basement. There are no stalls for changing; there is NO privacy.
    Coed with private stalls would be more private than this by a long
    shot!
    
    LKF

    I haven't been paying much attention to this discussion, but what
    the heck, it's a slow day and I'm waiting for a compile . . .
    
    I've lived in just about all the situations described:  single-sex
    dorm and bathrooms; coed dorm, coed bathrooms; coed dorm, single-sex
    bathroom; and unisex family-type.  Plus any number of public women's
    locker rooms.
    
    Maybe I missed something because at 6:30 in the morning I have trouble
    telling the difference between my daughter and my cat, but about the
    only difference I noticed was that in the coed dorm with the single-sex
    bathrooms, it was a longer walk to the bathroom.  To keep the walking
    fair, we switched at the semester -- first term it was men on second
    floor, women on first; second term it was the other way around.
    Of course there was a tendency to slip into the closest bathroom
    and say you forgot.
    
    One of the floor residents suggested that we should put potted flowers
    in the urinals of whichever bathroom was currently female, just as a
    clue.  I liked that idea, but it never caught on . . . 

    Behavior in the fully coed dorm was a bit calmer.  There were fewer
    wild parties and more consideration.  Residents tended to view the
    people in the next room as neighbors with feelings and preferences
    worth taking into account.  The single-sex dorm was the noisiest.
    
    But a coed dormitory bathroom is not the same thing as a coed public
    bathroom.   All the people in the dorm bathroom are more or less
    accounted for -- either residents or friends of residents -- and after
    a few weeks have passed you have a pretty good idea of who's supposed
    to be there and who isn't.  It's much more like a different kind of
    family. 
    
    Locker rooms are kind of in between -- more public, but still limited
    access.  I usually dress and undress by the lockers because there's
    more room, and more often than not I'll dry by the lockers, too,
    because the floors in front of the shower are usually wet.  It never
    particularly bothered me to have someone watching me shower or dress.
    Most of the time I don't even notice whether other people are present.
    
    There, that's my 2 cents worth.
    
    --bonnie

        For three years of my college career I lived floor full of men
        in a women's dorm. Then the college went to (floor by floor)
        co-ed dorms and I had to move into a an all-male because my dorm
        was an all women's dorm. We never did figure out what our floor
        full of men was supposed to be when there were officially no
        coed dorms, nor why when the school finally went to officially
        recognized coed dorms our dorm which had two floors of women
        and one floor of men, most of whom had shared this arrangement
        for 2 or 3 years had to go to all women, but such is life.
        
        We also had officially segregated rest rooms that were regularly
        used coed, and then one sex at a time with switchable signs and
        then officially coed, and then back again. There were never any
        problems although one young lady and I both turned red all over
        (as was perfectly obvious to both of us) meeting in the changing
        stall of one of the showers in a rest room both had expected
        to be empty. Again such is life.
        
        I by far prefer "ladies' rooms" to "men's rooms". I am much more
        comfortable in a stall with a door than a stall or urinal
        without one. I by far prefer indidual showers with doors and
        changing rooms to group showers an public benches. If I could
        use facilities design with the "sensiblities of women" in mind
        regardless of whether women used it or not I would be much
        happier. Given that, I don't see a lot of reason to segregate
        the sexes in environments like dormitories where the population
        is known and of good will. I do understand the desire of women
        to not have these in totally public places. Then again, I would
        prefer that I and my small boys could have private lockable
        rooms in many highly public places, too. 
        
        If the population is known and trusted, co�d shower and rest
        rooms with private stalls seem perfectly reasonable. If it's
        not, switchable one person private rooms seem quite reasonable.
        That's the way they work in trains and plains and the like.
        Why not elsewhere?
        
        JimB. 

    
       It's funny, when I first heard of coed bathrooms, the thought
    didn't phase me in the least....until I experienced it.
    
       I went on an overnighter at an all womens college where there
    were only female bathrooms ( I didn't realize this at the time).
    One morning I showered and opened the stall shower to get my towel.
    Standing there was a rather large male brushing his teeth. He said
    hello and handed me my towel. I had never been so embarrassed. I
    hid in the stall until he left.  Later on I discovered that there
    were no male facilities.  The men used the female facilities when
    escorted by a female.  I don't know where his female was.
    
       If I had my choice, I would opt for single sex bathrooms, but
    coed doesn't bother me provided I know when the opposite sex will
    be present.  At least you'd be prepared for those little surprises.
    
    -Sasha
     

    
    Well, mens rooms wouldn't be so gross if they were coed.
    
    re -.1 
    
    Was it a gorilla..-;

    In college, I lived in a coed dorm with single-sex bathrooms and
    a coed house with coed bathrooms.  It's not coed bathrooms I dislike,
    it's multiple-user bathrooms I dislike.  (Also multiple user kitchens,
    which is why I'm enjoying the lack of a roommate.)