Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    Tinkertoys are gender-neutral. I think. Anybody care to start a
    list of toys which do not re-enforce gender roles for children ?

    A friend of ours has two children; a 3 year old boy, a 2 year old
    girl. She, like many of us, is trying to raise her children in a
    gender nuetral way. What I mean is she encourages the girl
    to play with trucks, things like that. When she leaves them alone
    the girl wants to play with the dolls, the boy wants to play with
    the trucks. This occurs without any sort of encouragement from the
    parents. I found this fascinating and puzzling at the same time.
    

    Re .2
    
    It is possible that the children are picking up ideas from other
    children and TV commercials (girls don't play with trucks - they're for
    boys - yech!  - only sissy boys play with dolls - "Johnny is a
    sissy...").  Children can be very cruel and very influential on their
    peers. 
    
    Interestingly, one of my step-brothers has tried this.  It seemed to
    work well on his daughter - she is what is commonly called a tom-boy
    and likes that concept, although she will play with traditionally
    female toys too.  His son insists on playing with only the
    traditionally male toys. Figure this one out. 
    
    Elizabeth

    RE: .3	I never considered that! Good point. I know that
    		their access to television is limited, but they also
    		attend preschool classes with other children. I wonder...

    As Shellie and I were Christmas shopping for our neices and nephews
    this month, we noticed that even the pictures on most of the packages
    are sex-stereotyped.  Microscopes, plastic "tools", "action" toys,
    have pictures of little boys.  Dolls, kitchen sets, and many brightly
    colored items have pictures of little girls.  When we chose a lego
    set (or Construx, or whatever) for the girls, we tried to find one
    with a picture of a girl playing with it.  It wasn't always easy.
    
                  Carol

    Don't forget that most dolls *look like* little girls, and identification
    is a very strong motivator in preschoolers.

>    Tinkertoys are gender-neutral. I think. Anybody care to start a
>    list of toys which do not re-enforce gender roles for children ?

    Tinkertoys   (loved 'em.  One can never have too many tinkertoys
       or brick sets)

    Clay  (a big 1 to 5 pound lump. Yum. Yum. Yum.)

    Magazine subscription  (By the way, most libraries have The Newsletter 
       Index, which lists newsletters on specialized subjects.  I think
       most kids would adore getting an "insider" look.  Among the subjects
       I remember seeing in the index: minatures, doll collector, trains 
       (real and toy), raising and showing horses, all sports, kids
       theatrics, cartoonist publications, sci fi writer publications.
       Insider ballet news. Animation for and by kids. Oh everything! 
       Even a Groucho Marx journal.)

     Real Art Supplies (I would have wept for a real technical ink pin.
       and real art paper - the 80 pound stuff. Ohhhhh!!!!!)

     Gift certificate to riding stable, roller rink, movies, video store.

     Blank audio or video tapes.  

     An offer for 'lessons of choice' in piano, tennis, judo, juggling,
       dancing, modeling, sewing, astronomy, guitar, singing, ping pong

     A typewriter  Ohhhhhhh!          

    re:.3
    
    (being sarcastic, of course) "only sissy boys play with dolls"
    
    But of course. Macho boys play with "action figures". I find it
    wonderfully entertaining that the toy industry was able to come
    up with a term that would allow boys to play with dolls and save
    face. And to think that someone actually gets *paid* to think of
    these things...
    
    --- jerry

    <--(.9)
    
    Jerry, I absolutely agree with you.  In a previous existance I used to
    be one of the folks whose job it was to think up euphemisms such as
    "action figures".  Now *that* was prostitution!!
    
    						=maggie 

    LEGO's!!!!
    Jigsaw puzzles
    crayons & markers & scissors
    any game like monopoly, parcheesi, chess, checkers, scrabble, othello,
        pente, go, uno, cardgames like crazy-8 and old maid and go-fish
    wooden or cardboard blocks
    marbles
    dungeons & dragons (don't believe the media hype that it is compulsive
         and drives youngsters into fantasy-land and insanity)
    word games and spelling games (Botticelli, ghost, I packed my
         grandmother's trunk, etc)
    musical instruments
    
    etc...etc...etc...
    coloring books - including the "Designs to Color" series, Altair
    Designs, etc...
    
    play-dough, plasticine, 
    
    wow...I could go on!
    
    

    On somewhat of a tangent....  The NY Times had a story a short while
    ago about black dolls.  I have a flyer from one of the companies
    they mentioned.  It's free and can be ordered from The Keisha Doll
    Company, 524 West 175th Street, NY NY 10033.  Enclose a stamped,
    self-addressed business envelope with your request.  The dolls are about
    two feet tall, $20 to $50 dollars, some in costumes of Africa (both
    North and South), some "fashionable, some "regular" clothes.  
    

    This is a topic I think about a lot.  When I tell my daughter she's
    pretty, for example, I think "now would I say that if she were a boy?"
                                                                   
    I always try to buy "gender-neutral" toys for my brother's kids,
    who are being taught incredible stereotypes.  But it's kind of a
    cop-out.  The whole point of breaking stereotyes is to NOT limit
    a child.  If we decide to buy _only_ gender-neutral toys or clothes
    for our children, we're not broadening their options; in fact, we
    are narrowing them even more.
              
    It should be okay for girls AND boys to play with "boy's" toys; it's 
    should be okay for girls AND boys to play with "girl's" toys.  Easier 
    said than done, I know.
              
    We try with my daughter (only 12 1/2 months).  For her birthday, she
    got a doll stroller and a toy kitchen; but she also got a train
    and a carpenter set.  She has "frilly" dresses and she has overalls
    and flannel shirts.  So far, it's been relatively easy (even if
    the relatives only buy pink presents!), but what happens when she
    gets older?  And what happens when/if I have a little boy...
     
              
              

    Now that it's been mentioned (and so I'm reminded), here's another
    vote for giving "boys' toys" to girls, and etc.  It's the pits to
    walk into electronics lab when you've never seen stuff like that
    in your life, and the rest of the class has been putting it together
    since they were 10.
    
    Sure is hard to read a whole bunch of words connected by underlines.
    

    Re: .17
    
    Only if their computers use fowl language.  ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
    

    hey Karen....we put up with the old eagle 'cause we are used
    to him, he is an aquired taste...the problem is for new noters
    that he hasn't been around for a while.
    
    Bonnie
    
    after_a_while_you_kinda_get_used_to_his_style_and_miss_it_when_he
    isn't_around.

    re .14   Perhaps the little boy (when comes along) will get into
           Unisex haircuts - a dazzling Perm perhaps. Or some of these
           fabulous male fragrances that the *Industry* is trying to
           sell to us Men. He may get into Ken while sis prances Barbie
           around. Even have organs I hear. Bravo! Of course there's
           always that special earing (all time M/Nts winner) when he
           returns from the concert, the 'Punk' look or even the Brooke
           Shields look, if he prefers. And then there's always....
    

    I have a 4 1/2 year-old girl and an 11-month-old girl. I've supplied
    all the requisite genderless toys, craft supplies, etc. My 4 year
    old infrequently plays with her dolls, but is now getting more
    interested in wearing dresses (she's lived in overalls for the past
    4 years) and playing dress-up, more "girl" type behaviors. She enjoys
    playing with boys just as much as with girls. And she enjoys playing
    with "boy" toys.
    
    BUT, the facts remain that girls will pattern their behavior after
    their mothers and boys after their fathers, so until the mothers
    and fathers change . . .
    
    We talk about the fact that mommy works, that grandma works, that
    her other grandma retired after working over 50 years, and will
    continue to teach her that women have careers as well as families
    and she will tell you what she wants to be, and also a mommy. So
    we're doing the best that we can, but I don't particularly want
    to see her grow up with a lot of the typical male behaviors either!
    
    Maryan
    

    "Old Maid"?!?!?!
    
    Lisa_scratching_her_head_but_willing_to_accept

>    BUT, the facts remain that girls will pattern their behavior after
>    their mothers and boys after their fathers, so until the mothers
>    and fathers change . . .
        
     I hope I'm not taking this out of context, but
    				NONSENSE!
    				   :-)
    
    My mother stayed at home after I was born (and for the next 20 years).
    My father was an engineer.
    Guess what I do.
    
    I used to prefer dresses too (up until my freshman year of college),
    and if you'd ever called me a tomboy I'd have been hurt--I'm cruddy
    at sports and I can't climb trees at all.  
    
    Nobody mentioned yet (I think) my favorite toy, which was plastic
    animals!  The little kind you get in packets of 20 or so at the
    dime store.  And especially the horses that could rear up.  Moving
    parts were silly, though, because they'd just break eventually.
    
    I used to not like playing with boys because they'd get bossy, and
    swipe my guns, and force the dolls to be babies, and other
    unimaginative and uncooperative behavior like that.
                                                                   

    Being an engineer is not a behavior. Girls do pattern their behavior
    after their mothers -- and boys tend to model behavior after their
    fathers. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. After all,
    how else would our children learn to be men and women?
    
    I was a tomboy until I got to high school. I rarely played with
    dolls -- was far more interested in playing softball. But I did
    pattern my behavior after my mother. The way I regarded people,
    the nurturing instinct, how I viewed the world, etc.
    
    Maryan
    

    RE;.26
    
    "...how else would children learn to be men and women..?"
    
    They don't have to *learn* - boys grow up to be men; girls grow
    up to be women.
    
    They can't help it. :-)
    
    --DE
    

    being an engineer is a behavior.  Girls don't necessarily pattern
    their behavior after their mothers.  and I can prove it.
    
    Recently, my grandfather was going through some of my late
    grandmother's things.  He found some letters she had saved that
    my mother had written to her when I was around 2 and a half.  It
    says, and I quote:
    
    "Jody is now a qualified construction engineer - she has built
    structures with Lego and Building Bouders that stagger the imagination.
     Emily (my sister) makes things like (a boat) and "an alligator",
    but J. just builds - she can spend a good hour putting them together
    and pulling them apart - great babysitter!"
    
    Both my parents were schoolteachers at the time (well, my mother
    tutored english, my father taught drama).  I wound up heavily into
    digital electronics and mechanical engineering.  Neither of my parents
    encouraged me (except after I made it clear that was what I really
    wanted).  My sister is getting an art degree (which neither of my
    parents show a marked proclivity for, either).
    
    I suppose I am only a single incident, but still....
    
    -Jody
     

    Based on our experience with our two kids (now 14 and almost 4):
    
    A parent's behavior -- the way you talk, your nonverbal gestures and
    expressions that reveal hidden attitudes, the way you conduct yourself,
    the decisions you make about your life -- is the heaviest influence
    on children.  The sex of the parent and the sex of the child appear
    to be, for the most part, irrelevant to the behaviors the child
    decides to imitate.  
    
    Factors of psychology and interest appear much more important. 
    Kathy (the 14-year-old) has inherited a number of talents from me,
    including an ability with words and an interest in writing.  But
    she doesn't use those talents the way I would.  Instead she often
    behaves as her father would if he were a writer instead of a software
    engineer.  Her "leadership style"  (I hate managment jargon, but
    I can't think of a better way to put it) is like his.  She writes
    about things he finds interesting but I don't.  Apparently this
    helps her maintain her own psychological independence; if she were
    to imitate my style as well as my chosen profession, she would be
    in danger of feeling she had to be like me.
    
    Further, when she talks about approaching womanhood or the behavior
    of other adult women, it's apparent that social pressure and the
    models presented by her friends' mothers have at least as much impact
    on her as I do.  She sees me as someone very different from what
    the 'average' woman in this society is.  She says she likes me that
    way, but she doesn't want to be too much like me.  I'm too different.
           
    Obviously one teenage daughter does not constitute a valid 
    sociological sample!  However, I'm continually amused and frustrated
    by having more apparent influence on her friends than I do on my
    own daughter.
    
    --bonnie