Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    
    Martha,
    
    It sounds like some really tough stuff is going on for you right
    now.  I don't feel comfortable giving you advice, but I do want
    you to know that I'm sorry for the pain you must be in.  The
    couples therapy you mentioned sounds like a good place for you and
    your husband to work on issues together.  Have you thought about
    seeing a therapist on your own?  It might give you a chance to 
    work out some of these feelings that you've described here, and
    that might help you make whatever decisions you need to make.
    
    Relationships with in-laws can be tough if the in-law doesn't
    respect your autonomy as an adult.  But it must be awful to find
    your husband taking her side against you.  I'm impressed with
    your willingness to share this here, and I hope that you will 
    find ways to take care of yourself while you figure out your 
    next step.
    
    Good luck, Martha.
    
    Justine

    It sounds like you're having to be everything to everybody!  And
    they think get to choose how, too.  I think Justine is right, and that
    a therapist could help--after all, you do need to spend time on
    yourself and you need someone else on your team.  Someone who can
    help you learn how to tell the people in your life that some of
    the time, you need to be the decider, and that compromises have
    to be made.

    Does your husband know that things are so bad for you that you're
    thinking about divorce?  It might shock him into taking a clearer
    look at the situation.

    Martha, I could feel a great deal of pain and love bundled together
    in your note.
    
    I would echo Justine's response with one addition.
    
    Is alcohol by any chance a factor?  You didn't mention it, but if
    it is, that's a "horse of another color".   You can do all the good
    things in the world, and it won't necessarily have the slightest
    impact on a relationship where alcohol is a factor.
                    
    If it's not a factor, getting some support professionally might
    feel like a great relief.  And seeing a therapist doesn't mean that
    you are signing up to adapt to their wishes!  
    
    I wish you the very best.   It sounds like you are fun to be with,
    and are very capable of making other people happy, but are feeling
    a little beaten down by the in-laws at this point.
    
    Holly

    	RE: 592.0
    
    	Martha,
    
    	This probably won't help in your situation, but some years
    	ago, in my minister days, I tried to emphasize the need for
    	the couple to get as far away from both sets of parents as
    	possible. From what you've said, however, that's probably 
    	out of the question. Distance would, if nothing else,
    	eliminate constant contact with the woman.
    
    	When Anita and I married, our parents lived in Ohio while
    	we lived in Texas. The time away from them and together
    	helped us to build a good relationship where each understood
    	the other fairly well.
    
    	Regardless, I empathize with the situation. I agree with
    	Holly, I believe, who mentioned tells your spouse that you're
    	at the end of your rope. It just may shock him enough to get
    	his attention.
    
    	Keep us posted.
    
    	Scott

    Re .0, I don't have any advise to offer, but I do sympathize a great
    deal.  I know what it's like to not be able to get along with in-laws
    that are always around.  When I first met and married my ex-husband
    16 years ago my ex-mother-in-law hated me.  I could do nothing right.
     I wasn't good enough for her son.  She told me to my face that
    she felt her son could have definitely gotten a prettier wife, that
    I was too thin, too quiet, and not domestic enough.  It took her
    years to notice any of my good qualities.  It also always hurt me
    that my ex-husband would never stick up for me to her.  He wouldn't
    agree with her.  He would just ignore the whole thing.  When I would
    complain about her he would always say, "Consider the source." 
    But, I *wanted* my husband's family to love me and accept me and
    they just didn't for years.  If only he had just once said to his
    mother, "But, I love her and think she's cute and has a wonderful
    personality!"  (Afterall, he did think that once!)  But, he never
    did.
    
    My in-law problem may stemmed from different sources.  My ex-m-in-law
    was the type who wanted to run all 4 of her kids lives.  She wanted
    to pick their spouses, their homes, their furniture, their friends,
    their kids names, and on and on ad nauseum.  When, we disagreed
    she would complain, nag and offer free advice endlessly.  She would
    come in my house and run her fingers for dust and prowl around and
    then tell me I was a slob.  I remember the first time I leaped off
    the couch and screamed like a mad woman in my husband's face, "I
    hate your mother!  Do you hear me?  I hate your mother!"  
    
    Well, after awhile I just didn't care anymore what she thought or
    said about anything.  I finally did start to ignore her, after
    moderately telling her off a couple of times :-).  
    
    Ironically, now 2 1/2 yrs after I left her son, if she runs into
    me in a mall or someplace she treats me like a long lost best friend.
     I think in spite of herself she got to like me over the years -
    maybe she mellowed and I got tougher - and I don't hate her anymore.
     She's also very good to my daughter which I appreciate.
    
    But, I did go through hell once because of in-laws and I do sympathise
    and hope that somehow it all gets worked out.  I agree that you
    do have to make certain your husband knows how desparate you feel.
     It's horrible to think of a relationship ending because of a meddling
    in-law.
    
    Lorna
    

    I agree with .5 that moving as far away as possible is wonderful
    if you can do it.  My husband and I moved to Florida -- just because
    we wanted to do something different.  We quit our jobs, flew to
    Miami, found an apartment and new jobs and stayed for a year.  That
    year away from everyone we knew was the best thing we could have
    ever done for ourselves and our marriage.  There was no one to talk
    to but each other, no biased opinions from family or friends when
    we had an argument.  We gained a strong foundation to our marriage
    that year and have enjoyed 15 years so far.
    
    It sounds to me that your husband needs to "cut the cord".  It should
    be made clear to him that you married HIM, not his mother.  Meddle
    as she may, she has no right interfering.
    
    Many couples, when first married have a difficult time defining
    family.
    
    Once you are married -- you and he are family.  Everyone else is
    a relative in my book.  
    
    Continue with your counseling -- move if you can. But if you love
    each other, don't give up!  

    re: .0
    
    Well, several people have already said much of what I would say.
    If you feel that you have done all you can do, and then some, then
    it is up to your husband to support you.  You may want to consider
    changing therapists if this one isn't helping.  Is this in fact
    a couples counselor - or just a counselor?  There *is* a difference.
    Moving away isn't going to solve your problems with your spouse,
    even if it does lessen the tension between you and your mother-in-law.
    My spouse supports me over my mother-in-law, and it has made all
    of the difference, but if yours won't do that, then you need to
    solve the problems with your spouse first.

    		Good luck!    
                 	   Carol

    Martha, not only does your husband need to know how unhappy you
    are, your mother-in-law needs to know that too.  I've been married
    twice -- the first one ended in divorce after 3 years.  My
    mother-in-law was a hysterical has-been celebrity who would fake
    suicide to get our attention. But my ex never sided with her. Our
    problems were different and moving away did help -- we no longer
    had to answer her middle of the night calls for help.
    
    A psychologist who specializes in couples counseling can be very
    helpful. My present husnad and I did that for 2 years. He saw us
    individually as well as together and we always went out for dinner
    afterward.
    
    You need to decide for yourself if you really want this marriage
    to last. And you have to ask your husband the same question.  Sometimes
    putting your feelings in writing can be easier that verbal
    confrontation. 
    
    You're obviously torn and have some soul searching to do and I truly
    empathize with you. Do you ever have a reason to travel for DEC?
    If so, try to arrange something with a couple of extra days tacked
    on that your husband doesn't know about. Take the time for yourself
    and spend the time by yourself.
    
    The wisest thing the counselor we went to kept drumming into our
    heads was for us to say to ourselves, "How can I help?"
    
    Sounds like you need to build your self-esteem a bit too. Do things
    for yourself that make you feel good about yourself. Your positive
    attitude about yourself will help your husband and in-laws see you
    in a more positive framework.
    
    Wishing you the best of luck . . .
    
    Maryan
    

    
        
    My mother-in-law is, in simple English, just a b*tch.  When my 
    husband & I were going together, she *told* me I would marry in 
    her church and raise my children her religion.  I could see there
    would be trouble in Paradise with her for a mother-in-law and
    stood up to her then.
    
    Seven years later, she still tries to run the lives of her 7 kids,
    steal their money, etc.  When I married her son, we did not receive
    a gift, card, not even a phone call.  On my son's birth, we were
    told $20 was forthcoming as a gift for the baby - never saw it.
    She promised this baby a teddy bear for Christmas last year but
    never gave it.  My son just turned 1 yr. and not even a card from
    my mother-in-law.
    
    How do you handle a woman like this?  I told my husband, as Lorna
    did, I hated his mother.  I even went a step further.  My husband
    has been told that if he chooses to associate with a bunch of no
    good petty thieves, he can have his family.  As for my son & I,
    we have no part of them.  Thankfully, I have a husband who knows
    what his family is and supports me 100%.
    
    If this woman really gets under your skin, Martha, avoid her.  Let
    your husband run to his mother - you don't have to.  At the same
    time, I agree with the recommendation for therapy.  It really can
    do a world of good to just unload on someone who can be impartial.
    
    Best of Luck.

    	In all the answer to this note people have focused on the "in-law"
    but it appears that your husband is almost as much a problem.  There
    is something really wrong if you have to get up at 6 a.m. to vacuum
    just so you'll have more time to spend with him.  And what will
    happen if you have a baby?  (you said he wants to start a family).
    A baby will take much more of your time than vacuuming!  
    
    	From my point of vue the problem is more your husband than your
    mother-in-law.  The problem with your mother-in-law would not seem
    so enormous if your husband supported you in the first place and
    helped you deal with the situation.  
    
    	I agree with several others here that you should see a therapist
    on your own.  
    
    good-luck