Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    I'll appologize right off because I know you asked for women's 
    idea's, but I was always under the impression that it was the
    man that was capable of loving two women, and women were the one's
    that could only be involved with one man at a time.
    
    Steve

    Perhaps 'tis an illusion that is held by people with out regard
    to gender?

        No, I don't think it's an illusion.  I love more than one woman,
        it's just that I choose to express that love in different ways.
        Society would think me odd (as well as some of the women involved)
        if I didn't.  So, only one receives 'sexual' love, the others have
        to remain just 'friends' but very special friends.

        I'm sure others must feel the same.  It is my belief that society
        not nature makes us monogamous.

    
    
    RE .1
    
    Well ... I agree to your statement; to a certain extent ...
    When I am in love with a (one) woman, really in love, I cannot share
    because this would question my feelings towards her. On the other
    hand, it requires so much from yourself that I don't think you cannot
    do it otherwise.    
    I must be romantic !
    
    Robert.

    RE .3
    
    << I choose to express that love in different ways.>>
    
    Ok. This is true, I suppose. But how women feel about that ?
    It must be pretentious to think that one man can fulfil all the
    wishes of a woman !? 
    
    Robert. 
    

    One man can and does fulfil all of my needs.  He was involved in
    a situation where his (soon to be) former wife "loved" him and another
    man and it almost distroyed him.  To some of us (and I admit not
    all of us) love is closely interwoven with trust.  Its difficult
    to trust someone who's loyalties and affection are not returned
    in kind but are rather "shared" with another.  It reflects on the
    level of committment and in turn, on the depth of the relationship.
    I realize this is predicated on the nature and emotional level of
    the individuals involved, but certain people love to such a depth
    and extreme that such a relationship would be shattering to them.
    Mary

    re .6  well said, Mary. 
    
    re .5 >It must be pretentious to think that one man can fulfil
    all the wishes of a woman !?
    
    It would be equally true in reverse. The thing is to find someone
    who answers the most important, non-optional needs. and negotiate
    the rest.
    
    (I once made a list of everythin I wanted in a woman - so many
    opposites I decided that either I needed two women, or I was
    schizo to the max. I edited the heck out of that list ;-)   )
    
    Dana

	Yes, it is possible to love more than one person, but there
	must be something wrong, I think.  If you loved the first
	one, and this is a commitment, how can you love another ?
	How can you let yourself fall into a trap to do it.

	Now, if you feel that you do love another person, and you
	are  100% sure, then evaluate, why you love the one that
	you are committed too....

	I recently fell into this trap.  I was seeing someone, and
	and I met someone new. I went head over heals, but I knew
	I still had feelings for the first one.  well, instead of
	just saying I can't do it, I disregarded that.  I started to
	lose interest in the first one, and the new person, didn't
	want to get involved as strongly as I did. So I "lost" the
	second, and in the meantime, lost the first, because I 
	didn't pay enough attention, to her.

	I'm beginning to believe in the saying....

	"It's OK to love more than one, but being Mature
	is not doing anything about it"

			Micheal

    I think 'love' is a mis-used word.
    
    Whether people remain in unfulfilled or abusive relationships thinking
    that the dependency they've developed is love, or whether the
    relationship is fine until one partner's spark is lit by a third
    party, it's really difficult to say which feeling is genuine love.
    
    Surely, when you really 'love' someone, you don't risk the chance
    of hurting that person.

    can one person fulfill all our needs?
    of course not,thats why we have friends. i should think that i would
    be a pretty dull person to be around if i didnt have other people
    in my life that i loved.
    
    kelly

    I think that it is possible for a person who is in an ongoing
    committed relationship to feel strongly attracted to someone
    else....of the sort of feelings that one would label 'love' or
    at least the beginings of same were they free. The difference is
    what the person does about those feelings...

    RE .6
    
    <<  He was involved in
    <<  a situation where his (soon to be) former wife "loved" him and another
    <<  man and it almost distroyed him.
    
    Right. If there is some genuine love somewhere, then it is most
    likely that this situation is going to destroy one or more people.
    There must be some sort of masochism in getting involved into this
    sort of situation. 
    
    << Its difficult 
    << to trust someone who's loyalties and affection are not returned
    << in kind but are rather "shared" with another.  It reflects on the
    << level of committment and in turn, on the depth of the relationship.
    
    I personally agree to this. To a certain extent, I think that, at
    least at the beginning of a relationship, most people are exclusive,
    possessive, demanding,... Sharing with another is just unbearable,
    or strongly question the relationship. But later, after 3 or 4 years
    (ah ! the first 3 years ...), there is often a need to cut open
    the sort of narcissism that tied the partners together. The result
    is often that you start being available again, ... and meet other
    people.
    RE .7
    
    << (I once made a list of everythin I wanted in a woman - so many
    << opposites I decided that either I needed two women, or I was
    << schizo to the max. I edited the heck out of that list ;-)   )
       
    Yes, I suspect some sort of schizophrenia from the person who pretends
    to *love* two people. It might perfectly happen, but for a little
    while. Soon, some sort of decision has to be taken. Otherwise, it
    does not sound healthy.
    
    
    RE .8
    
    <<	Yes, it is possible to love more than one person, but there
    <<	must be something wrong, I think.  If you loved the first
    <<	one, and this is a commitment, how can you love another ?
    <<	How can you let yourself fall into a trap to do it.
      
    
    There is something wrong, definitely. Thanks. I feel much better.
    By the way, I noticed that the woman who loves two men often cannot
    make a decision (within a reasonnable time), and this decision seems
    to be made by one of the men, ... or both.
    Well, I suppose that the reverse is true a well (a man with two women)
    !?                               
    
    <<	"It's OK to love more than one, but being Mature
    <<	is not doing anything about it"

    
    I love this say.
    
    RE .9
    
    << Surely, when you really 'love' someone, you don't risk the chance
    << of hurting that person.
       
    This makes a lot of sense. But often you are selfish, and try to
    get and keep the best of everyone. Which makes the decision more
    difficult.
    
    

    
    RE .10
    
    I am not talking about the different relationships one may have
    with his/her lover and his/her friends. It is healthy to have friends.
    But usually, you are not deeply involved/committed with all of them.
    
    Robert.

    Re .11
                                                                   
    
    << The difference is what the person does about those feelings.

    Right. This is exactly what I am interested in. What women do (did)
    about those feelings ?
    
    Robert

    I can love (be attracted deeply to) more than one person at a time.
    I just can't be in relationship with more than one at a time.

    I comes down to a concious choice.  As a woman, I would make a concious
    choice to *not* do anything about those feelings.  In the situation
    I previously mentioned, a woman (who was married at the time) made
    a concious choice *to* do something about those feelings.  I believe
    that the choice one makes depends on the depth of the person's feelings
    about the one they have made a committment to, the circumstances
    of one's life at the time, and the maturity and depth of character
    of the people involved.  Some of us have to learn the hard way that
    there is no perfect relationship waiting around the corner.  Others
    have learned (often the hard way) what to value in a relationship..
    and stability is right up there on my list of values.
    Mary

    The following is from a member of the community who wishes
    to be annonymous.
    
    Bonnie J
    moderator
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    
    I don't think that most people who have had the experience
of loving two people at once would really like to talk about
it publically.

It happened to me once and it is still not something that I talk
about.

I am in a good long term relationship that has lasted many years.

Once a close friend began to become something more than that.

What I did was to day dream a lot, have a few illict lunches,
feel very guilty and go to councelling. In councelling I evaluated
my reasons for staying in the relationship I was in or leaving
with or without the 'new' person. I chose to stay in the relationship
and kept the friend as a friend.

I also cried privately, day dreamed a bit more, wished at times
that I could have the other or both, and ached at times.

I got over it eventually and I am happy with the choice I made,
it was the right one, but sometimes I still remember.

	RE. 15
    
    << I can love (be attracted deeply to) more than one person at a time.
    << I just can't be in relationship with more than one at a time.

    Well. I can accept this, but I feel difficult to *understand* it from
    a partner. Thanks for your participation, though.
    
    Re .16
    
    << Others
    << have learned (often the hard way) what to value in a relationship..
    << and stability is right up there on my list of values.
    
    Ah ! Stability ! I experienced once this need for stability. And
    I am not sure I made the right decision. (Refer next reply).
    I think that if you are making the decision to stay with the *first*
    because you decide to keep things stable, this may destroy
    you, sometime. As far as I am concerned, stability is ambiguous
    as it may mean death of your relationship (status quo). 
    But I can understand and accept this behaviour (comfort ?).
    
    RE .17
     
<<    I don't think that most people who have had the experience
<<    of loving two people at once would really like to talk about
<<    it publically.
      
    ? Ok. I can see some good reasons. It's a shame, though.
    
<< I got over it eventually and I am happy with the choice I made,
<< it was the right one, but sometimes I still remember.

    See comfort and stability previous reply ? 
    Personally, it took me years to forget about the second one (i.e.
    << I don't remember anymore >>). I am not sure this is healthy.
    I am not sure that STABILITY, as mentionned above, is a goal for
    happiness. I think that one must be able to question him/herself sometimes
    and be able to realize that he/she made the wrong choice, even years
    ago !  And that it is not too late to be really happy in *another*
    relationship.
    Thanks for your witness.
    
    
    
    

    If one is in the midst of a miserable relationship, than the
    relationship is *not* stable to begin with.  If one is happy and
    content in a relationship where one is understood and loved, than
    the relationship *is* stable to begin with.  
    
    When I refer to "stability" as being on my list of priorities to
    value in a relationship, I mean that, if one is in a happy, productive,
    constructive relationship TO BEGIN WITH, then one should think twice
    before risking that because one is bored.  
    
    Excitement, challenge, and risk become a way of life for some of us.  
    We get so caught up in the "game", in massaging our egos, that we 
    don't realize what we truly value, .. what truly matters .. until 
    it is too late.  We tend to turn to Hollywood style "instant 
    gratification" relationships to convince ourselves that we are wanted
    and desireable and needed.  Sometimes new relationships do work
    out and should.  But often the changes required in our lives must
    come from within, true happiness cannot be bought or stolen.  No
    one can make us happy but ourselves.  We must know ourselves, come 
    to terms with the person we are, before we can truly have a satisfying
    relationship with another person.  
    
    There is a great American myth that "the right person" can make
    someone happy and fulfilled and content.  The truth is that 
    no one can do that for anyone else.  To seek happiness, one must
    look within.  One must love oneself, respect oneself.  
    
    You know in your heart if you are using a "new relationship" as
    an excuse to free you from a committment that you do not belong
    in.  People do this alot and I understand why.  Nor do I think there
    is anything truly wrong in finding one's place in the world.  But
    those who go from mate to mate, always seeking and never finding
    are looking in the wrong direction for something they will never
    find until they give it to themselves.
       

    RE .19
    
    << But often the changes required in our lives must
    << come from within, true happiness cannot be bought or stolen.  No
    << one can make us happy but ourselves.  We must know ourselves, come 
    << to terms with the person we are, before we can truly have a satisfying
    << relationship with another person.  
       
    This is very POSITIVE, indeed. And I love it. Still, it is a bit
    idealistic. Sometimes it happens that a huge piece of your personality
    crops up because you meet somebody who manages to trigger it. 
    To me this means that we do need others to be *more* happy sometimes.
    
    Robert
       

    But Robert,
    
    Personality is "the state or quality of being a person, .. the totality
    of distinctive traits of an individual".  Personality does not "crop
    up" in segments like a rash.  Distinctive personality traits that
    characterize individuals already exist within ourselves, they are what 
    we are, they aren't "triggered" by someone else.  
    
    If we develop different characteristics at different ages (latent
    characteristics), we would probably do so whether another person came 
    into our lives or not...
    if we didn't meet *that* person, we would search for another person
    who complemented the direction in which the self wished to travel.
    
    It's not the individuals we meet who determine the person we wish
    to be at any point in time... it's us.  We merely seek out those
    people who reflect what we want to see back at us. 
    
    We are what we are, regardless of who we are with.  Granted some
    people "match" our personality traits and make life (and love) a lot 
    easier.  That is finding one's true soulmate.  But our personality
    is what we are *within ourselves* and is not triggered by or obtained 
    from another person.  Hence, if we choose to seek out another, its
    usually because we have grown in a different direction.  Those who 
    constantly seek themselves in others, do not know who or what they 
    are to begin with.

 I dunno, that sounds sort of like a pre-destined personality growth path.
 There's a lot to what you say, but I think that others can change our
 personalities too.  You can admire some characteristic of someone and
 try to become more like them in that way.  It will soon become part
 of your own personality (in your own way).

...Karen

    Karen,
    If one admires someone else and emulates them, one is still *choosing
    to change oneself* if one incorporates an admired characteristic
    into one's own personality.

    Mary

    re:	.22
    
    	Others can influence, but they cannot *change* you unless you
    	allow that change to happen.  It's all a matter of choice, as 
    	is the experience of loving two people at once.  I deeply love 
    	my SO, and although I can be strongly attracted to other men I
    	honestly have no desire to pursue those feelings.  I can have
    	my cake and eat it too without compromising anybody (including 
    	myself), because there is much more to this life than physical
    	relationships...
    
    						Carla
        

    RE .21,22,23,24
    
    I am impressed ... It's rather interesting to notice how people
    may behave differently. I cannot agree nor disagree as
    everything makes sense.
    I'd tend to be more flexible and think that one may, sometimes, 
    be influenced by other persons, and realize that one may be more happy
    with those people who are equipped with a certain set of traits
    of character. It does not change your personality, fundamentally.
    You may have grown up in a particular environment, 
    which inhibited some traits of your character and discover them
    later, meeting different people.
    If you are a *stable* person (see previous replies)
    you may have fighted against these urges (drives ?) until you have
    met THE 'other' one...
           
    Robert.
    

    Exactly Robert.  Thats the key, .... being with "the" other one,
    ... and knowing *yourself* well enough to recognize "the other one"
    when that person enters one's life.... whether it takes one day
    or ten years.
    
    That means not jumping into whatever relationships come along in a futile
    attempt to manifest the illusion of "the other one" in every face
    one sees, confusing the issues, denying the self, accumulating negative
    karma, and betraying the true soul mate.