Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    By local definition (I'm not living in the house my parents were
    born in :-)) I'm a new person in my town. I haven't tried to
    change things though. I like the true old town people and tend
    to agree with them more then I do with the 'new' people. I think
    that the 'new' people are wrecking this town. They all want what
    they had were they came from (mostly Mass. I'm a 'good' 'new' person
    because we didn't come from Mass. :-)).
    
    Even though it's against the law to build higher then 30' some
    of the new people think we should have a hook and ladder believe
    it or not. They want all kinds of new (and expensive) things.
    Taxes are up. Not just school taxes either. To be fair, the 'new'
    people are not doing it themselves. Some of the 'old' people who
    never got their way are riding the wave of 'new' people into
    power themselves.
    
    What are you going to do? Most of the 'old' people are pretty used
    to people using common sense. It's hard to get them to realize that
    things aren't being run that way and that they have to get active
    again. Most of them have been that route already.
    
    	Sigh.
    
    		Alfred

	Alfred's right in that it's not just "new" people or "old"
	people that cause problems.  Sometimes problems can result
	from progress that is good.  Unfortunately almost everything
	has its good and bad aspects.  A town that is dieing because there's
	no business in it will often encourage any business to come in
	just so there are jobs and people can afford to live.  Sometimes
	the business is good for the community and sometimes not.  When
	business grows, new people move in as the companies recruit.  The
	new people might want things that their previous town had.  More
	recreational facilities for kids, better schools, more restaurants.
	Old people sell their land and make a tidy profit, maybe they
	open up that restaurant.  Or maybe some new person comes in to
	town, finds a loop hole in the law and builds a lot of
	business along a narrow street.  There are always people who
	want to take advantage of situations to make a profit, and
	these people could have lived in the town all their lives, or
	they could have just moved in.

	...Karen

    
    	I've been talking about this question all over the place lately
    (notesfiles New_Hampshire and Parenting).
    
    I'm one of the new "old" people, too. My husband and I just built
    a new home in the town I was raised in; my mother, brother and sister
    live in the same small town.  It is definitely changing.
    
    I think a big problem is that not everyone has the same definition
    of progress.  I don't want my dirt road paved (costs too much,
    encourages people to drive faster), but more than likely my new
    neighbors from out of state do.  We all want better schools, but
    the blue collar residents (a big majority) can't afford to pay the
    much higher taxes that are needed to fund them, unlike a lot of
    the "new" people from the high tech industry who are moving to town.
    
    I wish that a lot of the people who move into these small New
    England towns would think seriously about what they are getting into,
    and not make the assumption that they can (should!) change the things they
    don't like.  If they want a quiet backwater place where everyone
    knows everyone else's name, they aren't likely to get sewer service,
    garbage pickup and first rate schools; they should be willing to
    acknowledge this.  If they aren't, maybe they are moving to the wrong
    place.  
    
    Or maybe the current "old" residents are just too backward to know
    what's good for them?  (sarcasm intended).
    
    Gloria
   

I'm suprised to hear people say they don't want their roads paved because
that will encourage people to drive faster.  I mean, it's starting to sound
like the old Unix joke:

  "We never document our code: if it was hard to write, it should be hard
  to understand."

When I first moved to Boston, I was somewhat amused at the unfriendly
attitude shown to outsiders: "we don't have street signs because, if
you don't know where you are, you don't belong there."

Grumble.

M.

    I live in a town where the old-timers are a problem.  Many of them
    try to get around building permits, and around the state wetlands act.
    They think they're above town ordinances just because "I've lived
    here all my life, so go to h***, I can do whatever I want."  The
    new-comers don't do this (generally).

    A lot of these old-timers have no concern for the environment, or
    their impact on it.  I mean they really don't even have a clue,
    some of them are so ignorant.  Yes, I'd like to change things and
    I think I have a right to try to make my neighborhood what I like.
    I don't really like the noise and smell of environmentally-polluting
    and peace-disturbing snowmobiles on the lake I live on all winter long.
    The best I could hope for is that a majority of others would feel
    the same way.  They don't right now, but maybe someday they will
    and we can fight it.
    
    The guy across the street from me chafed under the permit for his
    addition.  He expanded his foundation further than his permit allowed.
    He's lived there for years, so that's okay, right?
    
    	-Ellen

re:< Note 546.4 by MAY20::MINOW "Je suis marxiste, tendance Groucho" >

>> I'm suprised to hear people say they don't want their roads paved because
>> that will encourage people to drive faster.  I mean, it's starting to sound
>> like the old Unix joke:

>>  "We never document our code: if it was hard to write, it should be hard
>>  to understand."

I'm not sure what lack of documentation has to do with paving roads, but I
would love to live on a dead-end dirt road. Dirt roads give a country home that
much more charm. My family has owned a camp in Hanksville, VT for 40 years.
In recent years this small town has grown considerably and it's beginning
to make me nervous. It used to be you could skinny-dip in the ole swimming
hole and never have to worry about passers-by. Now we have loud people
taking over our swimming hole and throwing their beer bottles all over the
place. Now that the old man who owned a good portion of the surrounding land
has died, we worry about developers. That would be devastating as far as
I'm concerned. This is a town with a teeny-weeny store in the center and
that's it. No post office, no nothing. Luckily, we own a good chunk of land
and we're surrounded by folks who love the land as much as we do. 

I hate what's happening to the land. I hate all the developing. Last week
I heard on the radio that eatern Mass. is losing about 600 acres a week
to development. I wonder when it's gonna stop... I wonder if there will
be enough land left for me to build a log cabin on, far away from
civilization...

Jenna Pooh

    Well I am one of those people who live on a dirt road and don't
    want it paved. If it were it would form a direct route from a
    Mass town to our south to the nearest open on Sunday liquor store
    in New Hampshire...and the increase in traffic would be incredible..
    
    (currently if I pass more than one car on my road it is "heavy
    traffic" :-) ) and inspite of what Bob said in .7 we seldom have
    a dust problem, mostly in August if it has been very dry.
    
    But we also have a problem in town where the attempts to repave
    a state road have run afoul of the conservation commission becuase
    the wet lands laws were being ignored. Since the chairperson
    is a "newcomer" there is an element of old/new in the controversy.

    As a 'newcomer' of 9 years in my town I'd like to keep things as
    unchanged as is reasonably possible. 

  I also live on a dead end dirt road and I'd like to keep it that way.  I'm
  a newcomer of only 10 years residence and we moved to our NH town because we
  like it the way it is.

  The clashes between newcomers and oldtimers usually get aired at town meeting.
  It often happens this way:  newcomer wants to build a place on a road that
  is not maintained by the town (i.e., it is "subject to gates and bars" and
  does not get plowed or improved).  The road situation is explained to the
  newcomer but he or she *swears* that the road is good enough, that they have
  a 4WD vehicle, that they will never come back to ask for road improvements
  because they know what they are getting into.  So the town says OK, and
  approves a variance.  Guess what happens the next year?  The same folks show
  up and *demand* that the road be upgraded to Class VI and that the town
  plow it because they are having such a terrible time traveling to and from
  their home.  Fortunately, the oldtimers have good memories and usually refuse.

  Other newcomer/oldtimer clashes have been pretty comical.  One year there 
  were two newcomer-originated articles on the town warrant.  One was a
  call to require that all driveways be paved.  Since many of the town
  roads are dirt, no one could figure out what the purpose of the ordinance
  would be, so it was voted down without much discussion.  The other proposed
  ordinance was for noise abatement.  Basically, the newcomer who originated
  this one didn't want to be awakened by a chainsaw before 9:00 on a weekend
  morning.  Obviously, this one didn't have a chance because so many of the
  oldtimers figure that the day is half over by 9:00 a.m.  It got funny when
  one of the farmers got up to remark, "Y'know, mah cows start t' bellerin'
  'long about 5:00 in the morning and they ain't likely to pay no attention
  to yer damn noise ordinance."  So that one was laughed down rather than
  voted down.

  What really gripes me is the newcomer's attitude toward the school
  budget (which is 91% of the town budget here).  The proposed school
  budget increase would have caused serious hardship for many of the
  senior citizens in the town.  Some of them would have been taxed out of
  their homes (some of which had been in the family since revolutionary
  times).  The newcomers attitude was "We don't care whether they are
  taxed out of their homes. We want a larger school budget."  Now I don't
  much mind paying for the school, even though I don't have any kids (and
  even though we've been throwing increasing amounts of money at public
  education for 75 years and seen a steady decline of the quality received
  during that time). So far, I can afford it.  But it really gripes me to
  see that attitude on the part of newcomers.  It's not uncommon for them
  to move on and leave the financial problems to be solved by the
  oldtimers. 

  JP

    Interesting subject. My wife and I are definitely new to the old
    rural small town we live in. We bought an older house in a remote
    part of town. The road would be  better if it was dirt. It is probably
    the bumpiest road in the state and I wouldn't change it for anything.
    I've got cows for neighbors who do lend a certain ambiance when
    the wind blows right. We knew what we were getting into and wouldn't
    feel right pushing for self-serving changes. All we really want
    to do is quietly fit in, mind our own business, generally be left
    alone, and slowly develop friendly relationships with our neighbors.
    
    (don't worry "cakes". The door didn't hit me and some folks even
     kept it open for me, which was appreciated.)

    Speaking of neighbors, would someone tell me what happened to
    friendly neighbors. When I move here from westren Mass to Littleton,
    Mass. the neighbors were friendly. You could invite them over or
    be invited over for a cup of coffee or whatever, give them an
    hand, ask for help - noproblem. Over the last few years the new
    people moving in are not even politely friendly. I had one neighbor
    move in that would run in the house if you waved or spoke to them.
               
    dave
    
    
    

        it's interesting.  my family moved to Lincoln, MA in 1972.  The
    population is full of older "moneyed" people, and the school systems
    were dwindling, and there was no daycare in the town.  My family
    and our new-found friends in town helped do that, on time and within
    budget.  Since then, the town (as it has in the past) is still trying
    to place many unpleasant things in the north part of Lincoln (north
    of rte 2).  These include a possible dump site near my house, and
    an 8-lane rte 2 relocation/expansion that never passed (primarily
    due to poor planning and handling the neighbors the wrong way -
    and that's another way they didn't have to sink money into the current
    rte. 2 near that area).  
    
    There are several eccentrics in the town - and they all crop up
    at town meeting (which is REALLY IMPORTANT to attend if you live
    in a smallish town).  One woman wanted all the aerial phone/power
    lines around a 5-road intersection buried so she could have a better
    view of the library's flag.  One man objected because they wanted
    to put the restrooms on one floor rather than another in the town
    offices (he's a notorious eccentric, too, he comes up with something
    "new and interesting" every year).  But these lively suggestions
    keep us on our toes.  At town meeting we vote for various building
    projects, zoning on certain areas, appropriations for everything
    from schools to snowplows etc.  Unfortunately, one does not always
    make a difference - several things they cut back on due to proposition
    2 and a half included the electives program in the jr. high school,
    fireworks on the 4th of July, turning off every other streetlight
    to save money, and removing the firetruck from North Lincoln...
    
    I could go on, but suffice it to say we still have neighborhood
    parties at least in my neck of the woods - they happen maybe only
    on the all-important holidays, but at least we know them and can
    look to them for help when things get rough.
    

    RE: .12  "moneyed eccentrics"
    
    
    
    
    
    
       One of the houses on that 5-street intersection is KO's residence.
       
    
    
    
    
    

    token note ....
    
    Reading through these replies have been sort of like living in 
    New Hampshire again.... Time and Time again I've seen "quaint" towns
    fall prey to the 'commuters' and 'developers'. Raymond NH is case
    in point, as is New Boston and Weare. I chose to go backwards ..
    from the quaint little Nashua to bustling Leominster Ma. 
    
    I watched with incredulity as some developer hacked up part of
    my "lawn" for a water pipe, and choked on the gall as another destroyed
    roadside trees and bushes.
    
    Read the magazines ... Good housekeeping, Colonial Homes, Country
    Homes ..  and find out where "true" real estate bargains may still
    be found, so that more and more yuppies can descend on unsuspecting
    little towns and herald in Telephone systems that work, toilets
    that flush, sewers that don't drain into the river, and schools
    that really do teach with teachers that really care.
    
    It runs the whole gamut .. every note is true fopr every person
    who input it. I watchef my hometown replace dirt 'oiled road' with
    a real 'tar' road, with sidewalks noone uses, and now the traffic
    screams down the street terrorzing everything in its way. Progress.
    
    Progress. Thats what we do to make money. Home. Thats where we live.
    
    Funny thing about Leominster. they like Yuppies. The more houses
    increase in "true value" the bigger the 2 1/2 % pieces gets. "Old
    Residents" don't refurbish and modernize. yuppies do. I'd rather
    be a "rich yuppie" than a "poor old man", living in a shack, because
    the schools 'don't teach no better'.... ;^)
    
    Bob+3
    
    

    
    
    This is an extremely interesting note.
    
    I now li in the town my father was born in (same section too) which
    is next to the town I spent most of my life (six months here and
    there).  I am an "old townie" in many ways.  I have seen what has
    happened to the araround rte 3 and 495.  Some of it I like and
    and some of it I hate.  I can not live in the town I was born in
    because of the cost of even the cheapest house / condo.  The new
    people did not get the schools to improve only change, they live
    on the wetlands and don't care, they want town ewege, they also
    want to pay less taxes.
    
    But in another sense I am like the "new" people, I believe that
    there should be some services from the town for the taxes we pay,
    it is only that I don't agree with the "new" values being imposed.
    
    _peggy
    
    		(-)
    		 |	Treat the Earth as you home - you have no other.
    
    

    I have to humbly say, I don't have much patience with all this.
    
    I'm from southern California, and the changes I've seen...
    well, they've left me numb to the plight of quaint New
    England towns.   What is an overabundance of bimmers
    and snaabs compared to the extinction of entire species
    (which is what the wetlands conservation is all about, I know).
    
    If the real pain is watching the mixed harvest of progress and
    consumerism, well, let's see: what is it the Greens want to do?

    
    	I grew up in a small farming town and am really upset about
    	what some of the new-comers expect when they move in. Case in
    	point, after the death of one of the locals, his kids figured
    	they would cash in and sold the land to a developer which built
    	a few single family homes. Within six months of the new comers
    	moving in, at one of the town meetings they tried to have two
    	adjoing farms closed down. One was a chicken farm and one had
    	cows and grew veggies. Their reasons: a. the chickens woke
    	everyone up too early in the morning. b. The cows are messy
    	and during the hot spells the farm stinks.
    
    	I mean really, they knew they were moving into a farming area,
    	what gives them the right to come in and then demand to have
    	everyone else change their lifestyle just to suit them? Just
    	cause they had a few bucks and considered the locals as backwards
    	hicks, does this give them the right to remake the town the
    	way they feel it should be and to hell with how the locals
    	want to keep the town, which  btw most had been there for
    	generations?

    	RE: .17
    
    	So, what was the outcome? I assume the new people were
    	laughed out of the meeting.
    
    	Scott