Conference turris::womannotes-v1

>    While I find it hard to take this seriously (since I know weepy
>    men and stoic women as well as stoic men and weepy women)

    Lee,

    If this proves out to be a "real" biological difference, it is still
    statistical.  I know physically strong women and weak men as well as
    weak women and strong men    8^{).

    Dick

Maybe because women are allowed to cry more often, their tear ducts are more
efficient at getting the stress hormone out through the tears (use makes
organ more effective?).  Then we'd need to study womeon who don't cry much
against men who don't cry much to see if there's a correlation in amount
of hormone.

Ah, it's fun to make up theories :-)

...Karen

    I believe that there was also mention of the hormone prolactin
    being involved and that women naturally have higher levels of
    prolactin than men. Also that it was healthier to cry.

    I'm no biology major, but I'll agree that "stress tears" are of a
    different composition than "irritation tears" - they taste different
    and "stress tears" are relaxing.
    
    And yes, I do recognize that crying is the best way to deal with
    certain types of stress.
    
    Rich

    Its also interesting that baby boys and girls cry equally and the
    difference between the sexes of quantity and ease of crying become more
    and more marked as we grow up . I suppose this gives credibility
    to the 'men being conditioned not to cry /women being conditioned
    to cry ' idea . 
    
    I wish that I could cry easier for sure .
    
    DAve

    Did the article say anything about crying when you're happy or is
    this just another example of stress crying ? (perhaps these tears
    taste sweeter :-) )
    
    re .5 Dave - why do you wish you could cry more easily and what's
    stopping you anyway ?
    
    Jon

    Thanks for posting .0. There is comforting news there for me.
    I'm a weepy male. I cry very easily under stress. This, as you
    can imaging, was cause for me getting alot more abuse by other
    kids growing up. It was not considered ok for me to cry. Crying
    was and still is not something I can control. I am very willing
    to believe that there are biological reasons for this.
    
    I think that I tend to agree with both of Lee's hypotheses. I think
    that perhaps most women and some men do have more efficient use
    of tears as a stress reduction mechanism. I never did understand
    all those people who said that tears didn't help anything when I
    *knew* from experience that crying reduced my stress pain faster
    then anything else ever did.
    
    It's also possible that some people (most women) do have higher
    levels of stress hormones and that this contributes to them
    being in tears. I think that viewing that as a negative may be
    a mistake though. It really depends on what the hormones do doesn't
    it? If they help the body cope with the other effects of stress,
    and I think they do, then its a good thing. I'd like to hear more
    about what stress hormones actually do do.
    
    			Alfred

        What an interesting concept, tears for all occasions.  I've
    seen references to stress tears, pain/hurt tears, and happy tears.
    I'd like to find out what is in all of these different types of
    tears.
    
        I can think of only two other type of tears, those produced
    by an actor when required to cry, and those produced when a play
    causes an actor to cry even though the script doesn't call for
    tears.  Are there any other types of tears.
    
    ASP

    I'm amazed at how more quickly I cry during PMS (anyone else out
    there identify with this?), or times of stress than when I feel
    great and have a good grip on things.
    
    The other day I started weeping in my cubicle and while talking
    on the phone, I must have sounded all choked up because the caller
    said, "don't cry at work, it'll wreck the rest of your day".  Well,
    all I could say was, "if you felt the way I did and wanted to feel
    better, you'd cry too".
    
    If this is a separate topic, I'll start one but "why" is it that
    if someone feels like crying (in the workplace, in private), it is
    taken as a sign of "you're out of control, you're weak, etc."  If I
    saw someone crying, I felt there had to be a reason and if the 
    person needed to tell me about it, I'd listen.  But it wouldn't change my 
    mind as to what kind of worker he/she was.  Oh, and one time, I
    was VERY VERY upset about a personal problem and a work problem
    and while being confronted by management, I lost it.  Mgmt told
    me to stop it.  That just made it worse.
    
    I never want to think about that time again....
    
    Cathy
                                                               

    Yeah Cathy, I've cried in front of management, too.  Once it was
    because I was furious and frustrated at a perceived injustice that
    I was unable to fix.  Angry frustration is one of the sure fire
    ways to get me crying.  The problem is that "they" were so
    uncomfortable that we couldn't keep talking and resolve the f#$%ing
    issue -- they were so concerned about "making me feel better" that
    we couldn't keep trying to fix what was making me so mad in the
    first place.
    
    And yes, PMS does it for me, too.  My temper is hard to control
    during that time, and when my temper goes the tears start flying.
    
    I have my own lab though, and one I share with a tech, so I have
    some good places to retreat to when things are getting rocky.
    
    Lee

    I wish I didn't cry so easily.  Just today I got so mad at a meeting
    and couldn't defend myself because there really wasn't anything
    to say.  Sitting there keeping my mouth shut, stopping myself from
    wanting to scream at these people, well the tears just started to
    well up.  Then I had to concentrate on blinking them away, and got
    even madder that for some reason my anger causes tears.  I would
    love to trade with the person who can't cry.
    
    

    re .11  Why would you want to do that?  If you do, trade places
    with my mother.  Although I love my mother very much, not one year
    goes by without her making reference to me that *I* am too emotional
    (taken, I cry too much).  Well, after 3 years of counseling I'd
    rather cry and explain then to keep it in and PRETEND.
    
    My mother keeps it in and pretends.  Don't be like that, ok.  
    
    Cathy (who is started to wipe away the salty things right now just
    THINKING about the pain those 4 words have caused me (you are too
    sensitive)  
    
    But on my cruise, that's a whole other story....:-) 

    
    re: last
    
    I love to cry.  I always feel so much better afterward.  Sure,
    there are times when it is embarrassing and not ideal (*most* of
    the time I can control the urge at such times) but I'd never give
    up the ability to have a good healthy cry.
    
    Carol_who_cried_*all*_twenty_times_she_saw_E.T.
    

    I'm a confirmed weeper. I cry at happy endings, sad endings, really
    good jokes, very bad news, and at times of stress (I used to cry in
    grade school if I couldn't figure out the math problems). I suppose I'd
    rather keep the "poignant" tears *and* the stressful ones rather than
    give up both. However, if I could learn to control my tears when
    frustrated, I think it would help  - I can't speak clearly when sobbing
    (!), and so it makes it difficult to explain the problem or to
    negotiate a settlement. 
    
    Fortunately for me, the few times I've cried at work have been in
    front of supervisors who seemed to understand that it was an
    uncontrollable symptom of the situation, and who were willing to
    keep talking to me *without* resorting to "there, there" types of
    remarks. The thing I want most when subject to a stress- or
    frustration-related crying fit is to have people ignore it - anything
    else only makes it worse.
    
    One of the things I love about E-mail and notes is that I can
    communicate about sensitive subjects *while* crying, without the
    tears interfering. (Handwriting works too, of course, but it's slower.)
    Unfortunately, some people just hate to discuss sensitive subjects
    by written means...

    -b

    
    	Re: tears for stress reduction.
    
    Last Friday, after a real "burn-out" week, I went home feeling sad
    and irritable and frustrated.  I *wanted* something to make me cry.
    So finally, my husband called my mother on the phone and put me
    on the line.  Sure, enough, talking to Mom about the problem was
    the trigger and when I hung up, I went sobbing and weeping for a
    hug from my husband.  Then I felt fine.  I'm soooo lucky that David
    is soooo understanding.
    
    Gloria

    RE: .13
    
    Carol, how did you do with "Cocoon"?
    
    I have this on tape, and *every* time I play the last 15 minutes
    or so, it's like I'm still seeing it (or actually, not seeing
    it because of the tears) for the first time.
    
      Alan

    
    re: trading places
    
    Well, I have a tough time crying.  You get laughed at often enough
    as a kid for crying and it sticks.
    
    The trade-off being, of course, I have an assortment of other neuroses.
    I can't just let it all out.  When my dam breaks, so many other
    rotten things accompany it that I don't really blame anyone else for not
    wanting to be around me when it happens.
    
    I'm not saying count your blessings, but 'stoicism' ain't all it's
    cracked up to be either.
    
    DFW

    re: .5   "I wish that I could cry easier. . ."
    
    No problem. . .take a job as a planner in any manufacturing 
    Materials dept.
    
    Steve
    

    
    	I have alot of things happening in my life right now that if
    I stopped and really thought about many situations I probably could
    cry. I don't cry easily about life's triumphs and tragedies and
    have no idea why (can't even nail one of them theories to me).
    	I have to be alone really, and depressed, to cry. There is a
    certain place I can go where *those* memories can be seen out across
    the ocean, and thoughts of what once were and never will be roam
    through the waves and appear against the sky- then I cry, to myself,
    deep in thought, real tears, as the ocean washes up to shore.
    (are you crying yet)
    	I don't hate crying either. I definitely feel better after
    I've cried.
    	I can cry when a sad part of a movie gets to me. Recently I
    saw "Over the Top". I lost it when Stallone's wife died. And the
    way the son had reacted and the sceens and all, yeah, ok I cried,
    real sad part of the movie. If I cried, women must have flooded
    the theatre. 
    	Well, enuff gooey stuff bout cryin', back to work!
    
    	Dave
    

    I too cry when angry-I think its because I am trying to hold
    the anger in because "anger isn't nice".
    
    But I wonder if training men (and some women) not to cry if this
    increases the hostility etc that leads to wars?
    

    Movies and poetry can make me cry.  In real life, usually I just 
    trash my apartment.

    ...the Champ, the movie, is a real tear jerker
    ...Brian's Song (Brian Piccolo)
    ...Without A Trace (about a 5 yr old boy that was missing)
    ...Adam
    
    and even some Burger King Commercials
    
    and some of the episodes of All in the Family
    
    and when a daddy and his little girl are swinging in the park...
    
    Cathy

    
    re .16 - 
    
    I *bawled*.
    
    I cried during "The Breakfast Club"
    
    I cried when all the dwarves were gathered around Snow White's still
    form.
    
    I cried when the phone calls got through on those A. T. & T.
    commercials and the person calling said "I just wanted to hear your
    voice."
    
    I cry everytime my soulmate says "I love you" and then I smile with
    the feeling of warm fuzzies.
    
    My heart is so full that it just sometimes overflows with something
    wet.  :-)
    
    ***Carol***
  

>    My heart is so full that it just sometimes overflows with something
>    wet.  :-)

    

    The first time I saw "Terms of Endearment" I cried half the way
    home.  I couldn't seem to stop.  Everytime I'd compose myself I'd
    start picturing Shirley MacLaine's reaction to her daughter's finally
    succumbing to cancer and I'd start crying again.  Finally, my
    ex-husband turned to me and said, "For God's sake, it was only a
    movie!"
    
    This past year when I saw "Platoon" I was crying so hard during
    Sgt. Elias' death scene that a couple of people turned to look. 
    My SO said he could hear me sobbing so he turned to look at me and
    I said, "But, I liked him so much!"  Talk about getting involved
    in a movie!  (I couldn't remember having said it till he mentioned
    it after.)
    
    Everytime I see "The King and I" I cry when the king dies, and
    everytime I see "Annie Hall" (my favorite all-time movie) I cry
    when they play "Seems Like Old Times" and show various scenes from
    the relationship.
    
    But, what's really embarrassing is that I always cry in animal movies,
    and that doesn't seem to be as acceptable for adults.  I cried during
    "Born Free", "The Day of The Dolphin", "The Fox and the Hound",
    "Watership Down", and of course "Bambi".  It's bad enough when things
    happen to people, but when they happen to animals I just can't stand
    it!
    
    I've never been a stoic.  Once several years ago my mother and I
    found one of my cats run over by the side of the road.  I dropped
    to my knees and started crying hysterically.  My mother was saying,
    Lorna, stop that!  You're an adult!  Don't make so much fuss, people
    with wonder what's wrong with you!  I said, so what?  It was my
    cat and I loved it!  Getting rid of extreme emotions by crying really
    helps for mental health I think.  You cry hysterically for awhile,
    then continue on your life's business.
    
    Lorna
    

    Crying over a cat is more than acceptable.  I see stories about
    human tragedy and I don't bat an eye, but if it's about a cat, I
    bawl my eyes out.  My vet learned that the first time he met
    me when I brought in a friend's paralyzed cat.  I cried for days...
    
    And cats don't get embarassed when you cry...
    
    

    Lorna, I cried at all those animal movies, too, so you're not alone!
    Worse still, I saw "Electric Dreams" on cable.  Typical love triangle,
    you know, boy gets ultra-intelligent computer, boy meets girl, boy
    teaches AI machine about love so that the machine can write love
    poems, boy and computer compete for girl, computer goes nuts and
    then self-destructs (I just *love* realistic movies ;-)).  Well,
    you got it, I cried for the darn machine.  Software Engineering
    sentimentality.  I went into the den and hugged my VT100.  Then
    I tried to explain to my husband why he shouldn't call the people in
    the white coats :-)                  
    
    Rita
    

    re .26, Lorna:

    I seem to be the only one who *didn't* cry during "Terms of
    Endearment".  I cry as easily as anyone at movies, so I made sure
    to bring Kleenex to "Terms of Endearment" because everyone said
    they cried.  I just couldn't sympathize with the characters, they
    were such bitchy women!  I just couldn't *feel* anything for them.
    I walked out wondering what was so great about that movie (although
    I always enjoy Jack Nicholson).
    
    I remember cryinh during "The Fox and the Hound" also.

    I cried my eyes out every time I've seen ET.  That's one of my
    all-time favorites.
    
    I cry after sexual orgasm sometimes too.  Tears just come up and
    I'm not sure why - they're not sad tears or happy tears.  I think
    they may be spontaneous stress-release tears, associated with the
    orgasmic process.
    
    	-Ellen

    RE: not wanting to cry (like in front of management)
    
    It's like the PAt Schroeder deal - ain't "strong" ain't "businesslike".
    
    WEll, besides the data on composition of tears, I've heard that
    not releasing stress (like, by crying, for example ;-)  ) is becoming
    more and more suspect in the occurrence of disease - especially
    stress-relted disease like cancer, heart disease, and arthritis.
    And these are the diseases that the mainline medical establishment
    *admits* are stress-related. How many more problems do we have that
    are so-related!? 
    
    IT may not be "cool" to cry at work, but it may keep you from having
    more dis-ease, as well as from having more disease.
    
    RE: men crying.
    
    A friend of mine told me about the time when her father had bought
    their first house. Had saved a long time, worked hard (after coming
    from LEbanon with just the clothes on his back), etc. Needless to
    say, it wasn't much (probably'd be advertised as a "handyman's [sic]
    dream" today :-)  ), so when he took the family to see it, and they
    realized all the work they'd have to do to make it liveable, my
    friend said they *all* sat down on the porch and cried and hugged
    each other - dad included. 
    
    I always liked the story, and I liked her dad, too - you always
    knew how he felt because he showed his emotions. No awkward times
    when you knew he *had* to be feeling X, and would've communicated
    with him on that basis, but he never *showed* X, so the communication
    was short-circuited. 
    
    --DE
    

    I find it interesting that so many people wrote about why they cry
    and under what circumstances they cry - but I believe the base note
    asked - "I was wondering if any of the famous biology majors out
    there might shed some light on our tears -- more info about tear
    composition, stress hormones, etc. etc."
    
    

    I just read .26 about her cat being run over and Lorna
    dropping to her knees....and now I'm crying.
    
    Karen

    re answers from the Biology types....I did put something in about
    a possible connection between prolactin levels and tears...

    re:.13
    
    No, don't tell me you actually *like* E.T.!!
    
    I get misty-eyed myself during highly emotional scenes in
    movies, books, comics, whatever.
    
    The one that does it for me *every* time is when Lancelot saves
    Guenevere from the stake in CAMELOT. Even just listening to the
    song from that scene on the soundtrack album brings a lump to
    my throat.
    
    --- jerry

    Interesting the different direction that the note of tears in
    MENNOTES has taken. Sad too. I like this one better.
    
    RE: .33 Crying and fighting are not mutually exclusive. They don't
    even get in the way of one an other.
    
    			Alfred

    I have been thinking about this tears issue for about a week now,
    I have read most if not all the replies here. I did a search of
    the BIOLOGY NOTESFILE for a reference to tears (none).
    
    I have seen reference to stress and anger and sadness in these replies.
    
    While I was listening to the blues program on WCUW last friday I
    realized that there were other culturally accepted ways of getting
    rid of the stress, frustrations, sadness, anger, and lonelyness. I
    was wondering how singing or otherwise communicating our frustrations
    might be a substitute or addition to tears for releasing tension.
    
    When I was about to enter this reply, I made a quick review of the
    replies. I saw a lot of relating to personal situations through movies
    and stories and such. People were involved, animals, and machines
    too, but it was all sort of one to one and personal. I mat have
    missed something but I did not find anybody relating the sadness
    of some of the worlds great tragedies, like bombing runs on villages
    in Lebenon or the treatment of a whole people in South Africa. I
    too swell up with tears in movie theaters or when a cat dies. The
    biggest frustrations I have is when lets say 20 people get blown
    away and people say it is just part of a war. Do we have to get
    to know someone personally (even through dramatic character building
    in a movie) before we can feel?
    
    Les 

    re. 37
    Not at all Les.  I sobbed throughout the story of Jessie McClure!
    Even during her rescue!!
    And World tragedies are enough to make _anyone_ cry!
    
    I've enjoyed reading these responses, and learning I'm not the only
    (overly?) sentimental person around.  I well up during anything,
    and my SO always seems to know when I'm going to start.  He calls
    me, affectionately, puddle-eyes. 
    
    "the Color Purple" certainly got me going.  I looked horrible when
    we left the theater.   That's one of the things I HATE about crying-
    my eyes puff up and I look like I'm sick.
    
    (I even blinked a few back reading some of these replies, myself)
    
    Theresa.

    Although, it may take something personal to actually make me cry
    that doesn't mean I don't care about the big, horrible wrongs of
    the world.  But, some things such as the killing of Vietnamese people
    in the Vietnam war, the Nazi concentration camps in WWII, the situation
    in South Africa now, are just to shocking and horrible to cry about.
     They're scary and I don't know what I can do about them or what
    anybody else is ever going to do about them.  But, we can't spend
    out lives crying.  When I read Anne Frank I cried, when I saw Platoon
    I cried, when I saw Cry Freedom this past weekend I cried (I had
    never even heard of Steve Biko before for God's sake and there he
    was living out such a courageous life 10 years ago!).  It is the
    personal that makes us cry, but that's not bad because that may
    be the best way to make people aware of the larger wrongs.  People
    may relate to Steve Biko and then be motivated to do something about
    what's going on in South Africa, but I don't know what.
    
    Lorna
    

    

                <<< DMATE2::DUA0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DEJAVU.NOTE;1 >>>
================================================================================
Note 554.3                    Amnesty International                       3 of 4
SCOPE::PAINTER "Trying to reside in n+1 space"      294 lines   5-NOV-1987 15:32
                                -< Information >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL

Below is information from their recent fundraising mailing on or about
October 15th, 1987. 


Membership form
---------------
Torture can be stopped! .... and I want to help Amnesty International carry 
on its courageous efforts to bring worldwide pressure against offending 
governments and end the barbaric practice of torture.

Suggested amounts are $15, $25, $50, $100, $500 and Other  (with $25 
suggested).  This is a non-profit organization and Digital will match 
contributions of $15.00 or more.

Please make your check payable to: Amnesty International USA
				   322 Eighth Avenue 
				   New York, New York 10001.

A copy of the last financial report filed with the New York State 
Department of State may be obtained by writing to:  New York State 
Department of State, Office Of Charities Registration, Albany, New York 
12231, or to Amnesty International.
    
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

		Caution - this is not easy reading.
    
Introductory Letter
-------------------
"We are God in Here..."

...That's what the guards taunted the prisoner with as they applied 
electrical shocks to her body while she lay handcuffed to the springs of a 
metal bed.  Her cries were echoed by the screams of other victims and the 
laughter of her torturers.

Dear Friend,

Though frightening and shocking to even comtemplate ...right now, today, 
the horrors of torture and political detention are every day incidents
in fully one-third of the world's governments.

Torture is terrible and disgusting.  It mocks the most sacred and most 
universal human value  - the sanctity of human life.  It is physical and 
mental degradation, assault, burning of flesh with cigarettes, electric 
shock, living a year or more blindfolded in total darkness, being stretched 
and broken on a rack, having the unspeakable become a living nightmare.

Believe me, I do not recount these facts to be morbid or to provide 
excessive shock value.

We at Amnesty International have learned that the truth must be told so 
that the world's peoples can respond with the moral outrage required to 
stop the hideous crime against humanity that torture is.

	My plea to you is that you join me and more than half a
	million compassionate fellow human beings worldwide in 
	Amnesty International.  I urge you to add your name to the 
	roster of members of the only organization of its kind in
	history to have won the Nobel Prize for Peace.

It is the mission of Amnesty International to abolish torture.  We work 
impartially on behalf of victims of human rights violations.  The great 
majority of cases we undertake involve what we call "prisoners of 
conscience" - men and women who are imprisoned anywhere for their beliefs, 
color, sex, ethnic origin, language, or religion, provided they have 
neither used or advocated violence.

We work to end their torture.  We work to secure for them fair and prompt 
trials.  We work to prevent their execution.  We work to secure their 
freedom.  And a critical tool in Amnesty's fight against torture is our 
Urgent Action Network.

This extraordinary international Network is a highly organized system of 
concerned people who agree to be on call to send immediate Urgent Action 
letters on behalf of tortured prisoners of conscience.

When Amnesty receives reliable information about a detainee needing 
immediate aid, we activate our Network at virtually a moment's notice.  Our 
researchers verify facts about the case.  The facts are fed into our 
massive telecommunications network.  And volunteers respond with telegrams 
and letters - all within a matter of hours.

About 50.000 people belong to the Urgent Action Network worldwide; 5,000 of 
them are Americans.  And our Network works.  Our surveys show 40 to 45% of 
prisoners are either released or treated better when the Network is 
mobilized on their behalf.

I'm convinced our Network is so extraordinarily effective because it's 
ordinary people, more than governments, who have the power to stop torture. 
The thousands of responses that governments receive from caring people 
around the world give notice to prison and government officials that their 
actions have been exposed.  Even the most tyrannical governments don't want 
to appear repressive before their own citizens or before other countries.  
Their bankers have to negotiate with representatives of other countries, 
and their ships have to dock in foreign ports.

So our Urgent Action Network effectively strips away the masks of decency 
through which governments rationalize their human rights violations, 
forcing them to address questions arising from their abuses.  Eventually, 
governments must ask themselves, "Is this particular prisoner worth all 
this negative publicity?"  "Is keeping this individual in jail or torturing 
this person worth all the trouble it's causing?"  "Can we afford further 
damage to our internal and international image?"

We at Amnesty International know governments ask these questions, because 
they do in fact release prisoners of conscience whom we have adopted and 
fought for and because former prisoners have contacted us to thank us...

	A released prisoner from Malaysia wrote about the letters
	he received while in prison:  "It is hard to describe the
	feelings in my heart ... these [letters] I regarded as
	precious jewels."

	A freed Paraguyan prisoner aided by Amnesty wrote: "On
	Christmas Eve the door to my cell opened and the guard
	tossed in a crumpled piece of paper.  It said, "Take 
	heart.  The world knows you're alive.  We're with you."
	That letter saved my life.

But our Urgent Action Network is only one part of our wide-ranging efforts 
to abolish torture.

Amnesty International also brings pressure to bear against offending 
governments through our consultative status with the United Nations and the 
Council of Europe, and through cooperative relations with governmental 
bodies in Africa and Latin America.

Within the United States, we are expanding our network of legal, medical, 
and political experts.  In fact, we already have 1500 lawyers from 25 
states on our Legal Support Network and over 1200 health professionals who 
participate in actions to release prisoners of conscience.

Also, in hearings before Congress and in private meetings with lawmakers, 
Amnesty representatives urge U.S. officials to carefully consider human 
rights data when making foreign policy.  We even press our officials to pay 
personal visits to prisoners of conscience.

On another front, Amnesty will be working more closely with target groups 
- such as business, labor, politicians - meeting with them and sharing ways 
they can work with us to help stop the torture of innocent people.  

And over the coming months and years, we intend to intensify our pressure 
upon governments to adopt specific measures for eliminating the practice of 
torture.

We at Amnesty do not believe - as some do - that torture is a regrettable, 
but incurable, disease.  Slavery was once viewed in a similar light; is now
all but distinguished throughout the world.  The same fate is possible for 
torture.

Perhaps the words of one small child whom Amnesty helped speak most 
eloquently for the worth of our work.

Alfonso Hernandez, a small El Salvadorian boy, was kept hidden indoors for 
over two years by his grandparents to avoid death squads while his mother 
was illegally imprisoned and tortured.

Little Alfonso is so happy to be free, he now says he "wants to kiss 
everybody" he meets.

	Your name has been suggested as one who might wish to support
	Amnesty's vital efforts to free the "Alfonsos" - and prisoners
	of conscience - around the world whose lives are living nightmares.

	So I sincerely hope you'll take this opportunity to join 
	Amnesty International.

Torture can be stopped.  Prisoners can be freed.  Lives can be saved 
through direct action by Amnesty International.

But...our life-saving work can only continue to function if caring, 
unselfish people who abhor the practice of torture are willing to play just 
a small - yet important - role in stopping it.

Our need for your support is so terribly urgent because, even as I write 
this letter to you, someplace in the world - in Communist countries, in 
Western societies, in the Third World - innocent victims of government 
abuse are imprisoned, suffering unspeakable physical and mental agonies.

In Vietnam...a prominent poet, Hoang Cam, is in prison for attempting to 
deliver a collection of unpublished poems to the United States.  In Benin, 
Boniface Koundou, an agronomy student has been detained without charge or 
trial in the Cotonou Central Prison where extremely low hygienic standards 
result in rapidly spreading disease.  In Chile, Ricardo Weibel Navarrete, 
abducted from his home in 1975, is among 650 Chileans who disappeared 
between 1973 and 1977 and whose fate has never been clarified by Chilean 
officials.

It is up to us - you and me - to free these prisoners of conscience and 
thousands like them around the world.

And that's why I urge you to take a moment right now, while you have my 
letter in front of you, to complete the enclosed membership form and return 
it to me with your tax-deductible membership check for $15 - or more if you 
can possibly manage.

As soon as I hear from you, I'll see that you begin receiving our 
newspaper, Amnesty Action, which will keep you up-to-date on every facit of 
Amnesty's work.

"The letters kept coming," "precious jewels," "the world knows you're 
alive," "kiss everybody."  These words echo the hope and love people in 
need share with people who care.

We are these people, and they are us.  So please, join Amnesty 
International today.  We need you.  Mail your enclosed membership form 
today.  Thank you.

				Sincerely yours,
				John G. Healey, Executive Director

P.S.  Once you join Amnesty you will play a direct, personal role in 
      freeing prisoners of conscience and stopping torture.  And what
      a warm feeling of satisfaction that will give you!  Here's what
      one prisoner told us after he was freed:

	"When the first 200 letters [from Amnesty] came, the guard
	gave me back my clothes.  Then the next 200 letters came and
	the prison director came to see me.  The letters kept coming.
	The President called the prison and told them to let me go."

=====================================================================
Additional sheet in the package:

"Enclosed is a personal story about torture.  It is a story you may find 
difficult to read.  Yet it is only one of hundreds Amnesty International 
receives each year.

Innocent men, women, and children are tortured routinely some place in the 
world every day.  But this barbarism can be stopped; it must be stopped!

Please help."

By Sema Ogur:

"I loosened the blindfolds and looked around.  The scene was horrid."

Those are the words of Sema Ogur, a student when Turkish officials arrested 
her and her husband at a friend's house three years ago.

After blindfolding the couple, authorities took them to the Security 
Police's "Evaluation and Research Laboratories" in Ankara, Turkey's capital 
city.

"They wanted us to reveal our address," Sema recalls vividly.  "They said I 
could save my husband if I gave them the address."  Fearing that they would 
endanger their friends, the couple refused to tell interrogators where they 
lived."

As she began her first period of detention, which lasted 21 days, Sema saw 
fellow inmates "piled up in the corridor, waiting their turn to be 
tortured.  Ten people were being led blindfolded and naked up and down the 
corridor and were being beaten to force them to sing reactionary marches.  
Others, who were incapable of standing, were tied to hot radiator pipes.

"An old man of about 50 had been stripped naked and was being made to hand 
out bread rations.  The same man was forced to watch while his children 
were torture, and vice-versa."

During here 21 days of interrogation and torture Sema was hospitalized 
twice.  She asked doctors to record the torture marks on her body, but they 
refused to do so.  Officials then transferred her to a woman's prison, 
where she remained for 25 days before being released.  Six months later 
authorities arrested her again, detaining and torturing her for another 26 
days.

Sema's ordeal included being tied to ceiling pipes and left hanging in a 
crucifixion position.  "It was if my arms were coming off," she told a 
representative of Amnesty International.  "The pain became so bad that my 
screams drowned [the torturer's] voices."  Interrogators also beat the 
soles of her feet and subjected her to electrical shock torture.

"Even when they stop torturing you physically, the screams of others began 
to torment you psychologically.  After a while, I was able to pick out 
which torture was being applied from the screams."

One day she thought she heard the screams of her husband.  Guards took her 
to another cell, and when they removed her blindfold, she saw her husband 
"lying naked beside a black tiled wall.  His hands were tied behind his 
back, and they were administering electricity to his genitals."

Sema's husband, convicted after a group trial of belonging to an 
organization declared illegal by Turkey's military government, was recently 
freed.  He has joined Sema in England, where they are being aided by the 
United Kingdom's Amnesty International medical group.

Despite repeated requests from Sema, Amnesty International and others, 
Turkish authorities have not investigated her charges of ill treatment at 
the hands of state security officials.  AI's current information indicates 
a continuation of systematic torture by the government of Turkey.
  --------------------------------------------------------------

    After reading .40 I started recalling bits and pieces of many of
    the graphic torture stories that I have heard over the years. One
    of the fairly common traits were the sexual abuse of both men and
    women but mostly women. Another was the use of relatives (quite
    often children of the target of torture) to break down their the
    resistance of the victims.
    
    The target of the tormenters was really much larger than the individual
    victims of the immediate torture themselves. It is much larger than
    the families of the victims. The victims were quite often people
    that spoke out or acted against great injustices to a broad population.
    They were put into situations where they had to weigh the harm of
    their own loved ones against the harm of many more if they broke down
    and gave information on organizations and their members.
    
    Part of the torture quite often includes isolation and lies about
    others having already been broken and gave information. It must
    be quite lonely and mentally tormenting to be in such a situation
    while you yorself and your loved ones are being physically abused
    or maybe you are just told they are being abused. All you have to
    do is cooperate with these beasts and their masters and you will
    be allowed some relief.
    
    Just thinking about this brought tears to my eyes yesterday. I wanted
    to reply but just could not.
    
    Back to my earlier question about singing the blues. I also thought
    of protest music. One that comes to mind is Bruce Cockburn's "If
    I Had a Rocket Launcher (Some Son of a Bitch Would Pay)" about the
    brutality of the war being waged in El Salvadore against the people
    there and funded by our tax dollars.
    
    Torture is just one of the abuses that working people suffer when
    they stand up and try to change things. Thats one reason why I
    am a revolutionary and do whatever I can to stop this barbaric beast
    so we can live as human beings.
    
    Les

    Well, I have decided that perhaps it would be easier to be a stoic.
     How does one go about becoming one?  I've been crying all day about
    something in my personal life that is upsetting me (nothing so noble
    as speaking out against injustice), and it's very embarrassing.
     If you walk down the hall and it's obvious you've been crying or
    are crying, people look embarrassed.  They look away, they don't
    want to deal with whatever it is that's wrong with you.  It's almost
    like they think you're acting uncivilized or something.  One person
    even looked offended or angry at me.  
    
    Lorna
    

    
    Lock yourself in a room with your ten worst enemies.
    
    Have them make you cry until you get hateful and angry enough to
    deny them your tears.
    
    Keep this memory for use every time you feel like weeping.
    
    That's how I ended up like this.
    DFW

    RE: .43
    
    The cure is worse then the 'disease'.
    
    I don't want to hate; love is more comfortable.
    
    I refuse to accept the notion that crying is inherently bad.
    
    				Alfred

    
    You have stated my point better than I did, Alfred.  I agree with
    what you said.  I was hoping to illustrate to Lorna that whatever
    advantage one gets from bottling up one's feelings may be meager
    by comparison to the reasons one might be good at controlling them.
    
    Perhaps some people are born with such control.  More power to them.
    Having a tough time with tears is a disability, and I certainly
    didn't want to suggest that I wish it on anyone.
    
    DFW

    The long-term disadvantages of denying emotions outweigh the short-term
    advantages of doing so. That which is unexpressed does not go away,
    it festers. For an excellent discussion of this, and methods to
    deal with it, try reading "The Disowned Self" by Nathaniel Branden.
    
    Dana

    Someone mentioned other outlets for intense emotions, such as singing.
    What I find happens to me though, is that if a song moves me when
    I'm in an intense emotional state and I start to sing along, that
    it does not short-circuit the tears--it starts them.  Same for other
    methods of "releasing"--the symptom of the release, the signal I
    get that the release is indeed happening, is the flow of water from
    my eyes.  I went to yoga class one day, feeling very low, looking
    forward to class to relieve some of whatever was bothering me. 
    Well, I did get relief, but not the way I expected; I began weeping
    suddenly in the middle of a difficult asana and finally had to stop
    and wait out the storm.  My teacher said that this was very normal,
    that the release of tension and stress could take many forms, and
    not to feel bad about it.  (What a nice woman...)  And when the
    storm was over, I returned to and completed class with new vigor.
    
    Marcia
    
    PS.  I don't think there's anything wrong with crying, not at all.
    I take it as a sign that someone's feelings have become powerfully
    engaged, to the extent that there is a necessary discharge that
    must run its course.  But I _do_ think that many people in the normal
    course of our day look askance at it, and that this covert (sometimes
    overt) disapproval complicates the situation unecessarily.  I'm
    thinking that maybe the next time I'm moved to cry in public, and
    some stranger "shushes" me I'll try asking what _his/her_ problem
    is.  :'-)  (crying smiley)

    re: other outlets
    
    WRITING!  scrawling furiously until all the anguish and venom and
    whatever else, and salty tears are all over the paper.  And sometimes,
    when you read it later, you cry again just thinking about it.  But
    it works it out of the system.
    
    -Jody
    

    re .48 agreed. The good part is that someday the words will just
    leave you cold. Then you can tear up the paper. This worked well
    for me after a breakup not long ago. After re-reading about the
    hurt several times I realized that the pain had diminished enough
    that I could stop wallowing in it.

    
    Writing is my usual outlet, too.  Prose, as I have no feel for poetry.
    I usually don't write self-referential stuff, but I let my feelings
    drive whatever story I feel like telling.
    
    DFW

	I did my share of crying while reading the recent Boston
	Globe series on child abuse. It is so unbelievable how
	our society (i.e us) fails to protect helpless children.
	It is so clear that our priorities need overhall. Along
	with the tears comes a sense of outrage. Why is that
	child abusers are given such lenient sentences. Why are
	children so undervalued.

Singing, playing or listening to music...

Writing, or any form of expression, just to get the emotion outside of myself.
Writing is good because it organizes the thoughts as well, and perhaps some day
you will be able to face those words without crying, and know that you have
triumphed over a helplessness that you once had within you.

And people wonder why I bitch in notes...

Then again, you may never triumph, and continue return to those words with
the feeling of ice in your veins.  As someone once said, "Revenge is a dish
best served cold".

Jim.

        Sorry to be joining in late, but with vacations and DECUS
        I'm now 2000+ notes behind.
        
        I, too, would like to suggest that crying is on the whole more
        of an advantage than a disadvantage, though as a young "cry
        baby" I'm sure I felt differently. It's been my experience that
        those who allow themselves to cry love ore easily than those who
        don't. (Yes, some great lovers are stoics.) I suspect it comes
        from the connection between loving and vulnerability.
        
        I can only think of two times when I've cried in a work
        situation (as opposed to crying while at work over non-work
        things). In both cases I had said something extremely
        thoughtless to a coworker.
        
        Once several years ago I quipped about sexism to a female
        coworker whom I admired greatly who seemed to put the lie to all
        of the sexist biases. My intent had been to belittle sexism.
        Unfortunately, her successes were very bitterly won, and my
        comment just burst the dam. The result was that the two of us
        ended up acting very "unprofessionally" we held each other and
        wept profusely she from the pain of years of uphill battles won,
        and I for having pained such a person. 
        
        Yet, far from being unprofessional, I think that it improved our
        professional relationship. Over the next several years we had
        many disgreements professionally, and none-too-few
        misunderstandings as our backgrounds and perspectives were
        radically different, but through them all we knew that neither
        of us intended the other anything but respect. We could
        misunderstand and argue, but we always gave each other the
        benefit of the doubt, and didn't take anything personally.
        
        More recently, I said something that was interpretted as being
        highly critical by a junior female coworker. It was,
        unfortunately extremely far from my intent as her performance
        had impressed the hell out of me. Just goes to show how badly
        you can misspeak or mishear. When I found out how she had
        interpretted what I had said, and how badly shaken she had been,
        it brought tears to my eyes, and as I walked out of her office
        they just started to pour down my cheeks.
        
        I don't think that the second experience improved our work
        relationship at all, but it sure underscored to me how careful
        we have to be about how we speak to our colleagues when they're
        under stress. It will be a long time before I speak so
        thoughtlessly again. The tears helped me to see how much it hurt
        me to screw up the workings of our team, and how important it
        was to me not to.
        
        I notice that both interactions involved women coworks, one
        senior to me and the other junior. I suspect that's not entirely
        coincidental. I'm much more comfortable with women, as I have
        said before, and more willing to be vulnerable in front of them
        than in front of men. Around men some of those stoic defenses
        that dull us to the world come up more than they do around
        women. I don't wish I wer stronger around women, but more
        vulnerable (because I felt safer) around men. 
        
        JimB.