Conference turris::womannotes-v1

         
  >  Do you believe that surrogate motherhood should be legal in 
  >  this country ?

	No simple opinion

  >  
  >  Do you believe that a contract drawn up for surrogate motherhood
  >  should be binding in that the female must give up the baby ?

	No

  >  
  >  Do you believe that there should be laws enacted to govern the
  >  actions of all parties involved in surrogate child birth ?

	No simple opinion     

                   

	Les
    

    Yes
    No - Contracts should have provisions for a change of mind.
    Yes

    May I ask for some clarification?
    
    When you say surrogate mother are you saying:
    
    Father's sperm, surrogate mother's egg, surrogate mother's womb?
    Father's sperm, mother's egg, surrogate mothers womb?
    Or both of the above?
    
    Sharon
    

    Do you believe that surrogate motherhood should be legal in 
    this country ?
YES.
    
    Do you believe that a contract drawn up for surrogate motherhood
    should be binding in that the female must give up the baby ?
YES.  But an escape clause can be written into it if desired
    
    Do you believe that there should be laws enacted to govern the
    actions of all parties involved in surrogate child birth ?     
NOT SURE, PROBABLY NO,  THE CONTRACT SHOULD PREVAIL.

Generally, I believe that this is NOT a Government issue.    
It is a contract between individuals written by those individuals.
	
	~Mike

>    Do you believe that surrogate motherhood should be legal in 
>    this country ?

    yes
    
>    Do you believe that a contract drawn up for surrogate motherhood
>    should be binding in that the female must give up the baby ?

    no
    
>    Do you believe that there should be laws enacted to govern the
>    actions of all parties involved in surrogate child birth ?     

    yes

    I have no problem with surrogate mothering as a principle.  I have a
    problem with a contract being the mechanism for defining how surrogate
    motherhood will be carried out.
	1 It is a contract over OWNERSHIP of a child (not a concept I
	    would like to fool around with)
	2 If fully regulated by law then the chances of things getting
	    completely snafued would be reduced.
	3 How valid can a contract be if it concerns an individual who
	    did not exist at the time the contract was written?

    With a set of individual contracts defining the mechanism, each case
    will be subject to its own confusing set of loop holes.  With
    legislation you can at least reduce it to a known set of standard loop
    holes	8^{).

    Dick

By the very nature of this questionnaire, I would question the results
of any survey.  I don't feel your friend is asking enough questions to
get a consensus.  I think that the issue is more complicated than a
simple yes and no answer can give.

>    Do you believe that surrogate motherhood should be legal in 
>    this country ?
	yes - qualified.  Should people be paid for surrogate motherhood?
	I'm not sure.  Maybe paid surrogate motherhood should be illegal.
	Well they should get something for the expense of special food,
	drugs, Dr. visits etc.  How do we keep from allowing the
	concept of women's bodies being something for sale (it's not
	prostitution, but...)?  If it's made illegal, you leave
	fewer options for the childless couple.  But I'd hate to
	see surrogate motherhood as a method of convenience for the
	wealthy who don't want to go through pregnancy.

    
>    Do you believe that a contract drawn up for surrogate motherhood
>    should be binding in that the female must give up the baby ?
	yes - A contract's a contract.  Don't sign it if you feel that
	you might not be able to keep up to it.  Put in escape
	clauses if necessary.  
    
>    Do you believe that there should be laws enacted to govern the
>    actions of all parties involved in surrogate child birth ?     
	no - What laws?  Surrogate mothers are not allowed to
	go skiing, take aspirin, other controls on their life while
	pregnant?  Parents-to-be must not have any contact with the
	surrogate mother?  The situation would be better handled
	in the contract.  I do feel though, that it would be a 
	public service for someone to come up with sample contracts
	that address all the issues involved so that the parties
	involved can come up with what works for them.
    

...Karen

     Since I ran into an interpatation problem over in the other file
     about this question being a time limited subject.    
     Uppps sorry, I should have made this clearer. It was not my
     intent to make this a time limited note. The only limitation was
     that I had to get any survey answers back to the person by the
     week end of NOV. I feel this should remain open as the note to
     discuss this subject rather than open a new one. The way to do
    this would be to answer the questions and then give your opinion.
    
                         Thanks
                                  Bob B 
    
    

    yes to all of the 3 questions, however:
    
    Shellie was reading an article lately about this, and came to the
    conclusion that surrogate parenting should be run only by non-profit
    organizations.  I would like to look into that more.  I am not sure
    our present system is the best.
    
                   Carol

    Do you believe that surrogate motherhood should be legal in 
    this country ?

    YES.  Women's bodies have been "for sale" since the dawn of time.
    Blood is "for sale" routinely.  Children are bought every day with
    huge sums of money paid to lawyers and adoption agencies.  This idea 
    of abhorence to "selling" should not be an issue in surrogacy.
    
    Do you believe that a contract drawn up for surrogate motherhood
    should be binding in that the female must give up the baby ?
    
    YES.  Absolutely.  The contract is meaningless otherwise.

    Do you believe that there should be laws enacted to govern the
    actions of all parties involved in surrogate child birth ?     

    NO.  The contracts should be individualized according to the
    situations and they should be absolutely binding.  The government
    does not belong in this issue at all.
    
    Further, I don't see what the problem is with having a class of 
    women who don't want to bear their own children.  We are heading
    fast toward the "breeding farms" I remember thinking about in high
    school.  I used that think that one day "breeding" would become
    a profession and now I'm sure of it.  Certain women who love to
    be pregnant and who don't want hold down full-time jobs will gladly 
    be breeders once the concept becomes accepted and the profession
    respected.
    
    Also entwined in this issue is the question of the monetary value
    of "women's work".  If women are allowed to put a price on their
    ability to give birth they, (we), will have been given a power that
    men have no access to and often will be at the mercy of.  I've always
    believed this concept to be at the real root of the argument against
    prostitution.  Imagine if women were "allowed" to put a price on
    their sexuality!  Men would go broke - fast - and they know it.
    Morality is the "excuse" but not the reason.  Plenty of lawmakers
    find nothing "immoral" about prostitutes.
    
    If we do enact laws to control surrogacy or outlaw it completely
    it will be just a temporary measure - a panic reaction to the reality
    that the technology is indeed here and there are wealthy people
    who want the right to use it.  Wealth will win and if our generation
    is horrified at the idea the next generation is already getting
    used to it.  So the only thing that really remains to be seen is how
    much of a fight we put up and for how long before we lose out to
    the reality.
                                                            

    
    >Do you believe that surrogate motherhood should be legal in 
    >this country ?
    
    Yes.
    
    >Do you believe that a contract drawn up for surrogate motherhood
    >should be binding in that the female must give up the baby ?
     
    Yes.
    
    >Do you believe that there should be laws enacted to govern the
    >actions of all parties involved in surrogate child birth ?     

    No.  Sandy's point here about individualization is an excellent
    one.
    
    re: the rest of Sandy's note.                                    
    
    Naah.  Never mind.  Dead horse.
    
    DFW

     RE .5
>    May I ask for some clarification?
    
>    When you say surrogate mother are you saying:
    
>    Father's sperm, surrogate mother's egg, surrogate mother's womb?
>    Father's sperm, mother's egg, surrogate mothers womb?
>    Or both of the above?
 
     Without being able to contact the other person, and from what 
     I know about the subject, I would have to say both as an answer.   
     In both cases the surrogate female takes the place of the female
     in a marrage that can't have a child for one of two reasons.
     The first scenario covers for a wife that is sterile.
     The second for a wife that can't carry for what ever reason.
     So I would have to say both as an answer.
    
                                       Bob B    

    
    	Would just like to mention here that I thought it was *GREAT*
    	that the 48 year old grandmother in South Africa was able to
    	give birth to her daughter's triplets!!  In that case, the
    	daughter supplied the eggs, her husband supplied the sperm
    	(and the grandma was impregnated with the fertilized eggs.)
    
    	Evidently, it was the grandmother's idea (her daughter had to
    	have a hysterectomy after the birth of her first child and was
    	considering trying a surrogate pregnancy.)  The grandma was
    	worried that a surrogate might decide to keep the child, so
    	she volunteered to do it herself (to be sure that her daughter
    	would receive the child.)
    
    	I thought it was wonderful!!  If I could not conceive, I'd very
    	much want to use my own egg with my husband's sperm (if at all
    	possible.)  If I were going to *BE* a surrogate for someone,
    	I'd want the same thing for the other mother (if at all possible.)
    
    							      Suzanne...

    yes, yes, yes.
    
    -Jody
    
    (p.s.  I already mailed my response to the surveyor, so don't count
    me twice)
    

    1. no, not for money
    2. no, should have same time to decide as mother giving child up
           for adoption
    3. yes
    
    I have to wonder how many of the people who simply said 'yes' to
    the second question have ever given birth to a child of their own.
    
    The feelings I had after having my children were much more intense and
    fiercely protective than anything I expected.  I don't think all the laws
    in the world will change those feelings. Especially *contractual*
    laws, which are notorious for being regularly broken.

    re: .0
    
    Y, Y, Y
    
    I agreee there should be laws permitting surrogate motherhood,
    but thats where the law should end, and the written contract would
    be the prevailing document.
    
    But several quick prospects arise, as questions:
    1) Who ensure the ultimate welfare of the child prevails ?
    
    2) In the case where a very wealthy client makes contract with a
       person with little or no financail clout, what mechanism assure
       the 'surrogate mother' will be treated fairly, in the event of
       future litigation.
    
    3) If one of the people is of a different country, which nationality
       will the child be ?
    
    4) In the event the 'willing surrogate mother' has an 'unwilling
    husband' and does it anyway, how would that affect the divorce laws
    on 'infidelity' and 'hardship, cruelty, and pain' ? 
    
    This assumes that the woman might not be able to be "as good a wife"
    pregnant as she might be unpregnant ? 
    
    In the same vein, what assurance is there that the child is in fact the
    "legal property" of he client and not of the 'surrogates husband' ?
    
    5) Suppose "surrogate motherhood" is made legal, but only with th
    provision that the couple must first have "at least one" adopted
    child ?
    
    
    Bob
    

    yes maybe yes
    
    The maybe is because:
    
    If it is the surr mom's egg then she should have the choice to back
    out, it is her baby also.  In a conflict, as previously mentioned,
    it should be up to which parent can care for the child best.
    
    If it is not the surr mom's egg then she should not be able to go
    back on the deal.  She didn't supply the ingredients, she only supplied
    the pan.
    
    

    
    	RE: -.1
    
    	 We already know which parent can care for the child best
    	in the eyes of the court....  You don't think the Stearns
    	and the BIG $$$ they had put them in bad view with the judge
    	do you??  
    
    	 I have a question for everyone.
    
    	 Seeing I'm among the very small minority that feels this
    	practice should be outlawed. What would have been Mary-Beths'
    	recourse had she wanted to live up to the contract and it
    	was the Stearns that had wanted to back out? (Just for sake
    	of a reason, say Mrs. Stearn had become pregnant)
    	What would the courts have done in the case the child was born
    	with some deformaties and the Stearns didn't want to cope with
    	them, would they have been allowed to "take the money and run"
    	leaving the Whiteheads on their own?

    I haven't read all the replies, we have talked about this in another
    note, entitled "Baby M".

    re .29:
    
    I argued against a stonewall on the exact same thing back in the
    "Baby M Decision" topic.  I agree with you, even if no one else
    here does.

    as .26 noted:
    
    >*contractual* laws are notorious for being regularly broken.
    
    which is why I feel that the Baby M Decision was wrong.  In the last
    100 years or so, the courts have been moving away from rigidly enforcing
    contractual agreements.
    
    	-Ellen

    RE: Adopting at least one before surrogacy - I think that is an
    excellent idea - there are so many kids who already exist that could
    use a good set of folks. 
    
    Dawn
    

    re: .29
    
    What would I consider fair in those cases?:
    
    If for any reason the parent(s) did not want the child,
    then they would still have to pay the surrogate mother. The surrogate
    mother would have first choice at raising the child (to be legally 
    hers).  If the surrogate mother did not want the child either, then 
    it would go up for adoption like any other unwanted child.
    
                    Carol
    
    If the moderators wish this reply and .29 moved, then please do
    so, and edit this paragraph out, if you can.  Thanks.  

    re. .26: "I have to wonder how many of the people who simply said
    'yes' to the second question have ever given birth to a child of
    their own.  The feelings I had after having my children were much
    more intense and fiercely protective than anything I expected. 
    I don't think all the laws in the world will change those feelings."
    
    Yes, but what of the feelings of the man who fathered the child?
    
    re. others...
    I think that rather than requiring the parents to have adopted a
    child before seeking a surrogate, perhaps all surrogates should
    be required to have had a child previously, so they can better know
    how they will feel after having carried the child and given birth.
    
    Lynne
    

    I agree with Lynne (sp?).  I don't think anyone could begin to answer
    the 2nd question with a yes unless they given birth to a child!
    
    As for the survey on a whole... 
    
    1) no opinion
    2) no
    3) should be left up to the individuals involved!
    
    T

    re: .34
    "but what of the feelings of the man who fathered the child?"
    
    Immediately after the birth of a child, the mother's hormones
    are sending a lot of messages.  Producing milk is an obvious
    physical manifestation of this, but there are also emotional
    reactions. No matter how much a father anticipated the birth
    of his child, he is not being affected physically the same 
    way the mother is.  That isn't to say that ultimately the
    father might not turn out to be the better parent. It is to say
    that giving birth is an extremely intense, primitive experience
    and attempting to legislate on how a woman should behave at this
    point seems futile and ridiculous. I think any woman who has had
    a child, and any man who has seen his child born, would be less
    likely to say "yes, a surrogate mother must honor her contract and 
    give the child up" than a woman or man who have not had this
    experience.
    
    I have been on both ends of this spectrum.  I now have two children
    but there was a time when we went through all the infertility tests,
    all the waiting and disappointments. I never considered surrogate
    motherhood at that point just because of the Golden Rule. I knew
    how much I wanted a child, how could I then ask another woman
    to give up hers?
    up" than a woman or man who have not had this experience. 

    
    
    I have had two children.
    
    YES. YES, Y
    
    _peggy
    		(-)
    		 |	Contracts can cotain clauses
    

    
    
    
                       < yes, yes, yes>

�        Do you believe that surrogate motherhood should be legal in 
�    this country ?

    
 	Yes.   
    
     
�    Do you believe that a contract drawn up for surrogate motherhood
�    should be binding in that the female must give up the baby ?

    
    	Yes.  If the contract has a clause in it that states that she
    	 may change her mind, that's fine.  If no clause, then she 
    	 should have to give it up.  
    
�    Do you believe that there should be laws enacted to govern the
�    actions of all parties involved in surrogate child birth ?     

	No.  A contract is a legal document, ergo any scenarios should
    	 be written into the contract.  That should be enough.
    
    
    				-Rich

    RE:  Requiring a surrogate to have given birth previously.
    
    Not sure if this would help, per se, as Ms. Whitehead HAD done so,
    and still signed the contract. I, on the other hand, never have
    and never will - yet I KNOW for a fact that if I were to carry to
    term, I could NEVER give the newborn up. And I don't even want to
    be a parent!
    
    --DE
    

    1) Yes
    2) Yes (and I have had a child)
    
       Some mothers who bear their children don't want them, eg., the
       mother who recently killed and abandoned her newborn child. 
       Mothers who have not been able to actually bear their own
       child may want them just as badly.
    
    3) ?  Not sure.  I would have to see what kind of laws you're
       talking about.
    
    The idea of first adopting an existing child is good but...why
    should this stipulation only be applied to couples who cannot bear
    their own children and not to couples (such as my husband and me)
    who are lucky enough to be able to?
    
    One more thing...can we please stop referring to the surrogate
    mother as "the female" as though we're talking about a laboratory
    animal?
    
    -Tracy
    
  
 

    YES
    YES
    YES
    

================================================================================
Note 526.44            Questionare on surrogate motherhood              44 of 44
BEES::PARE "What a long, strange trip its been"      29 lines  28-OCT-1987 10:49
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Note 526.0             

    
    Please answer either yes , no , or no opinion
    
    Do you believe that surrogate motherhood should be legal in 
    this country ? 

    YES - but for humanitarian reasons ONLY... no
    money should be involved at all, desperate women should not
    be put in this position,.. only women who seek to help a friend
    of relative out of love.

    
    Do you believe that a contract drawn up for surrogate motherhood
    should be binding in that the female must give up the baby ? 

    NO - We already know that the female body releases certain hormonal 
    enzymes at birth that act as a catalystic bonding agent between a 
    mother and child.  The physical condition of "bonding" is inherent to 
    the well being of the human race and cannot be ignore for convenience 
    or for money.
    
    Do you believe that there should be laws enacted to govern the
    actions of all parties involved in surrogate child birth ?  

    YES - Women must be protected from the attitudes of the male dominated
    financially oriented judiciary.
    

    Re .33:  (Carol)
    
    Perhaps more fair, if the father and his wife did not want the child,
    they should still have to pay - the child.  The mother should perhaps
    get something out of this, but the *real* person they broke their
    commitment to is the child.  The mother should then have the choice of
    raising the child or giving it up for adoption. The money she receives
    should to toward helping raise and educate the child.  If neither want
    the child, the money should still go with the child.  Especially if the
    child is handicapped, it would probably be a lot easier to find someone
    to care for the child if the child came with money to help pay for
    his/her special needs - surgery, special schools, prosthetics, therapy,
    whatever.
    
    Elizabeth 

    It would appear that I have all the answers that I'am going to
    get about this, so I've rolled up the current set of replys.
    If any others come in between now and next Fri Nov 6, Ill
    redo this. So far 49 people have responded, the results include 
    both those answers that were posted here and those that were mailed 
    to me. I make no claim as to the results, I'am just here to tally them
    and forward them to my friend. Note that I have not included any
    " No opinion " counts in this report, since there were so few of
    them.
   
                                
    Do you believe that surrogate motherhood should be legal in 
    this country ?
    
             Female                     Male                 Total
    
    Yes       23                         19                    42
    
     NO        4                          3                     7
    
    Do you believe that a contract drawn up for surrogate motherhood
    should be binding in that the female must give up the baby ?
    
             Female                     Male                   Total
    
    Yes       21                         18                     39
    
    No         6                          4                     10
    
    Do you believe that there should be laws enacted to govern the
    actions of all parties involved in surrogate child birth ?     

             Female                     Male                    Total
    
    Yes       18                         11                      29
    
    No         9                         11                      20
                             
    
     Thanks  to those that participated       Bob B

    Yes, Yes, Yes

    
    no, no, yes
    

	yes, yes, no

	(More government intervention only adds to the problem.)


- Howard

    no no yes(outlaw it)

   This is the final tally as of Fri afternoon Nov 6. All total
   58 responses were received, 31 female, 27 male. Heres the results. 
                                
    Do you believe that surrogate motherhood should be legal in 
    this country ?
    
             Female                     Male                 Total
    
    Yes       25                         21                    46
    
     NO        6                          6                    12
    
    Do you believe that a contract drawn up for surrogate motherhood
    should be binding in that the female must give up the baby ?
    
             Female                     Male                   Total
    
    Yes       23                         20                     43
    
    No         8                          7                     15
    
    Do you believe that there should be laws enacted to govern the
    actions of all parties involved in surrogate child birth ?     

             Female                     Male                    Total
    
    Yes       22                         15                      37
    
    No         9                         12                      21
                             
    
    Again, Thanks to those that participated       Bob B