Conference turris::womannotes-v1

What's the criteria for "well known"? I don't know who a bunch of the
famous names are on the Spitbrook conference rooms. I've learned a lot
more from the ones I didn't know about!

What about the woman that won a nobel prize in biology a few years ago?
Anyone know her name?
	Mez

    
     "Hypatia's Heritage: A History of Women in Science
    from Antiquity through the Nineteenth Century" by Margaret Alic
    
    There are a number of "well known" women scientist discussed in
    this book and she references a number of other sources.  I thought
    it was great reading.  
    
    _peggy	(-)
    		 |	The Goddess has been 
    				inspiring women for over
    					20,000 years
    

    Commander Grace Hopper - she of many talents and graces in the computer
    sciences area...  but, alas, not European.
    
    
    

The woman who won a Nobel prize in Biology a few years ago is named
Yalow (or that's her husband's name).  She's American.

One of the co-discovers of DNA was a woman. See Watson's "Double Helix"
for details.

Alva Myrdal was one of the major economists of the 20th century.
(and a noted arms reduction negotiator).

How about P.M. Thatcher?  Wasn't she once a chemist?

Martin.

    Anna Freud
    
    and the woman who helped Babbage?
    
    a lot of woman scientists never became famous because their work
    was published by a male....(such as Watson and Crick)
    
    In the 19th century the only other two even mildly famous woman
    scientists that I can think of (other than Curie) were two 
    astromomers....both Americans that taught at two of the American
    womens' colleges, and a woman who was famous for helping
    scientists....who was I think the queen of Sweden....I am going
    to have to go and look these up....I can't remember the names
    anymore.
    
    (and me with an MA in Biology - I've been away from things too
    long ;-})

    Bonnie

      >  and the woman who helped Babbage?
    
    She was Lady Ada Lovelace, daughter of Lord Byron by Claire Claremont
    (Godwin).  She was the only descendent of Lord Byron who survived
    infancy and so inherited his title, Earl-of-something-or-other.
    
    Rita
    

    Re: .6
    
    Her name is Ada Augusta Byron, the Countess of Lovelace.
    She is generally considered the world's first computer programmer,
    and is the namesake of the Ada programming language (hence it is
    Ada, not "ADA"!)
    
    From the approved list of ZK3 conference room names, there's also
    Emmy Noether, a 19th-century mathematician, but I don't know if
    she's European or not.  I'm afraid that the conference we had
    to gather suggestions for names was deleted, as it had other
    suggested women's names.

    					Steve

< Note 397.4 by MAY20::MINOW "Je suis Marxist, tendance Groucho" >
                          -< Off the top of my head >-

>The woman who won a Nobel prize in Biology a few years ago is named
>Yalow (or that's her husband's name).  She's American.
Rosalyn Yalow won the Nobel around 79 and has since (like some many other Nobel
laureates) gone on to lecture on everything under the sun.  The last time I
heard her she was giving nonsensical arguments for nuclear power to 
the phyics department at Brandeis.  Her explanations of physics were 
embarrassingly bad.  It's too bad that she isn't still doing bio-chemistry
where she's done a  lot of good work.

More recently Barbara McClintock won the Nobel prize in biology (2 years ago?).
She is also an American having done much of her work in Maine.  A biography
of her "A Feeling for the Organism" has been highly praised.  She had a lot
of trouble getting funded because many of her ideas were out of the mainstream,
and were only accepted in the last few years.

--David

    
    "Woman who discovered the double helix structure of DNA" was 
    Rosie Franklin. British. But she didn't.
    
    She was attempting to deduce the structure from X-ray crystalography.
    But her samples weren't pure enough to give an unsmeared diffraction
    pattern. She MIGHT have deduced the pattern, eventually.
    
    But she didn't.
    
    NOT:    
    "...because it was published by a man..." (or something like that).
    

    re Rosie Franklin
    Watson and Crick gave her no credit for her work, and Crick admitted
    as much when he wrote about it years later.

    I got out of Biology research because it was one of the more male
    dominated types of employment that existed (at least at the time
    I got my M.A.) My impression of the grad research area was that
    most of the researchers were male and they essentially consumed
    nice bright young women as research aides and most of the glory
    went to the men. 
    
    That is one of the main reasons I went into community college teaching
    instead of working for my PhD....and I have never regretted it.
    
    Bonnie

    Maria Montessori

    Italian educator and physician.  1870-1952.
    Her work has reshaped childhood education across the world.

    The naming is a great idea.  Reminds me of the famous line,
    "Anon, thou art a woman."

           Meigs

    
    Prof. Lisa Meitner, Austrian-Swedish physicist and mathematician. She
    was one of the first people to recognize that Fritz and Straussman had
    split the atom in Berlin in 1939. I read an account of her skiing with
    one of her sons, who was reporting the experimental results to her. As
    he talked she grew agitated, stopped and performed calculations that
    showed how much energy would be released from a small quantity of
    uranium. She may have been the first person to have forseen the
    terrible consequences because the trip back was silent and hurried.
    

    Mary Somerville, a self-taught scotswoman, for whom Somerville
    College at Oxford is now named, first gained recognition in 1826
    by reading a paper before the Royal Society on "The Magnetic Properties
    of the Violet Rays of the Solar Spectrum."  It was reinforced in
    1831 by a comprehensive book, "Celestial Mechanism of the Heavens",
    a popularised english version of Laplace's "M�canique C�leste".
     
    Caroline Herschel worked for the most part in the shadow of her
    brother William, court astronomer to George III.  She did however
    receive acceptance in her own name for the discovery, with a homemade
    telescope, of three nebulae and eight comets and for publication
    of a catalog of stars.
    
    
    (In 1835, the two women were accepted into membership, albeit honorary
    membership, in the Royal Astronomical Society, the first women to
    be so recognised.  The Society's council reported to the membership:
    "On the propriety of such a step, in an astronomical point of view,
    there can be but one voice:  and your Council is of opinion that
    the time is gone when either feeling or prejudice, by whichever name
    it may be proper to call it, should be allowed to interfere with
    the payment of a well-earned tribute of respect".) 
    
    =========
    
    Agnes Pockels, a young german woman, discovered surface tension in
    1881.  Though unable to go to college, she carried on research at home.
    While working with salts, she discovered that salts in solution gave
    the surface of the solution a greater "pull" than plain water had.  She
    brought her observation to her brother's attention and he told his
    professor, who ignored the new but seemingly irrelevant information.
    Ten years later, in correspondence with the english scientist Lord
    Rayleigh, she told of her observations, and he printed her letters in
    the journal "Nature". She began to receive credit for the discovery,
    though her name is still only rarely mentioned in texts or histories of
    physics. 
    
    =========
    
    Mary Leakey discovered, on 17th July 1959, the first humanoid fossils
    to be found in Olduvai Gorge in northern Tanzania.  They belonged to
    Zinjanthropus; according to the Leakeys, probably an offshoot of human
    development that died out around a million years ago. Zinjanthropus was
    about five feet tall, large-chested and small-brained with a barely
    distinguishable brow.  In 1975, after her husband's death, Mary
    Leakey discovered the jaws and teeth of at least eleven humanoid
    creatures about 25 miles from Olduvai.  Those fragments have been
    dated as 3.75 million years old, almost a million years older than
    previous finds.  
    
    =========
    
    
    (excerpted and trivially paraphrased from "Hellraisers, Heroines,
    and Holy Women; Women's Most Remarkable Contributions to History",
    Jean F. Blashfield, St. Martin's Press, 1981.)
    

    Since we're  looking  at  woman  in  fields  other  than  biology,
    Margaret  Mead  was almost single handidly responsible for public
    awareness of anthropology, and made the public aware that we could
    learn from other cultures.

--David

(This is long and somewhat technical.)

I excavated my copy of "The Double Helix" last night and did some re-
search. Page references ( ) are to the Signet edition. 

1) Franklin was the first to produce a X-Ray diffusion photograph of a 
certain form of DNA. Watson used this photograph to produce his model
of DNA. (107) Wilkins and Franklin were also the first to discover that
DNA did have SOME kind of regular structure, and was not just a blob. They
could not at first specify the exact structure. (39) This was an extention
on existing work, and not an original discovery.

2) She did not realize that this photograph indicated a helical structure;
in fact, she denied the helical structure on the same day that Watson saw
the picture. (105) Watson was convinced of a helical structure from his own
independent X-ray work combined with his own knowledge of crystalography.
(77)

3) The X-ray results did not indicate a detailed structure for DNA, nor
would it have been possible to deduce the complete structure of DNA from 
X-ray analysis. Determining the complete structure required model building,
which she did not do. (107)

4) She had previously confirmed an experiment that indicated the DNA contain-
ed more water than it really does (52, 66); this would have forced her into 
a model having 3 strands instead of 2. (Correctly, she did not regard this 
experiment as conclusive.) Watson concentrated on a 2 strand model from the
first.

5) X-ray analysis was not necessary to establish the helical structure of
DNA; Pauling had used X-ray analysis on a single stranded protein only to
reduce the number of models he had to build. Both Pauling and Watson could
have deduced the structure from chemical bonding without using X-rays. 
(41)

6) Contrary to assertions that Watson somehow took credit for Franklin's work,
her paper was printed under her and her assistant's name in the same issue
of Nature as Watson and Crick's paper.  (134)

7) Franklin did not "discover" DNA (nor did Watson and Crick). Her work 
was an extention of existing work on X-ray analysis of protein, not the
determination of the detailed structure of DNA. Her X-ray work would never
by itself have led to the discovery that Watson and Crick recieved the Nobel
for. In addition, there were photographs available that showed Watson that
DNA had a 

8) Her work did not in itself have the breakthrough implications in many 
different fields that Watson and Crick's work did. She produced evidence
that supported Watson and Crick's work rather than producing an original 
model. This was probably the reason that Watson and Crick rather than 
Franklin got the Nobel.

Irene Curie received a Nobel prize in Chemistry (or was it physics).

There was a British woman (forgot her name) who won a Nobel prize
in Chemistry for X-ray diffraction work on the structure of
vitamin B12.

(Most almanacs list Nobel prize winners.)

Martin.

    
    Dianne Fosse--she studied apes for decades. Also was murdered by
    hunters. Maybe someone else could give more details...
    
    Anybody mentioned Rachel Carson?
    
    Not Nobel Prize winners, but good substantial researchers.

    also Jane Goodall who studied chimps but I think that she and
    Dainne are both of American origin and the original question 
    asked for Europeans.
    
    Fossey's book Gorillas in the Mist is excellant reading.
    
    She was killed because as I understand it, she over identified
    with the gorillas to the extent of kidnaping people involved
    with poaching...I don't know if it is true but the opinion
    of the less emotionally involved was that she lost all sense
    of caution and got herself killed. Then on the other hand...
    had I come to believe in the humanity of gorillas the way she
    did I don't know if I might not have done the same thing.
    
    Bonnie

Nobel prizes:

Medicine (1977): Rosalyn Yalow.  Developed analytic radioimmunoassay
		technique using isotopes for diagnostic purposes.

Chemistry (1911): Marie Curie.  Discovery of radium and polonium.
	(1935):   Ir�ne Joliot-Curie (together with Fr�d�ric
		Joliot-Curie).  Synthesis of new radioactive elements.

	(1964):  Dorothy HDGKIN.  Discovery of the structure of biochemical
		substances, notably penicillin and vitamin B12.

Physics (1903): Marie Curie. Study of radiation phenomena.  (Together
		with Pierre Curie.)
	(1963): Maria Goeppert-Mayer.  Discoveries regarding atomic
		nucleus shell structure.  (Together with J. Hans D.
		Jensen.)

(My almanac only goes to 1979.)

Martin.

    re: .7 and Emmy Noether
    
    If the report I read was correct (same for my memory, alas), Emmy
    Noether was indeed European.  And the only way she was able to give
    her lectures on mathematics was to have a prominent male mathematician
    listed on the programme;  he would then introduce her and she would
    proceed with her lecture.
    
    Anyone know if she is related to Gottfried (?) Noether, a mathematician
    at U of Connecticut or thereabouts (and still alive, active, etc.)?
    
    	Penelope

    Firstly, thank you all for your contributions and suggetions, alas
    I have submitted most of the names mentioned here (except maybe
    3 or 4) and they were all rejected.  I have decided to argue some
    of their cases and not accept their rejection after seeing that
    their are 'some' people in DEC who have heard of them ;-}
    
    Just a couple of points on two of the replies:
    
    RE: .15
    
    The Nobel Prize is not awarded posthumously, Rosalind Franklin died
    in 1958 before Watson, Crick and Wilkins were awarded it.... so
    had she lived a little longer, maybe she would have shared it. 
    I like to think so.
    
    RE: .16
    
    The woman who won Nobel Prize for Chemistry in 1964, who worked
    on Vitamin B12 was Dorothy Crowfoot Hodgkin and English Biochemist,
    educated at Somerville College Oxford (named after Mary Somerville).
    And thanks for Irene Curie(-Joliot), but we already have a room
    named after Marie Curie (the one out of 24 rooms!)
    
    Thank you all once again, and PLEASE, PLEASE KEEP 'EM COMING.
    
    I'll just mention the others I submitted (that were rejected), so
    any others would be great..............
    
    Susan Jocelyn Bell PhD - Eng. Radio Astronomer, discovered first Pulsar
    in 1967 (CP 1919)
    
    Henrietta Swan Leavitt - American Astronomer, studied Cepheid
    variables, which resulted in a way of measuring very great distances.
    
    Gerty Theresa Radnitz Cori, Czech-American biochemist, her and her
    husband isolated unknown compound from muscle tissue
    'Glucose-1-phosphate' or 'Cori ester'. Nobel Prixe 1947
    
    Mary Anning - British Geologist. Discovered skeleton of previously
    unknown creature - Pterodctly - 1828, and other skeletons....
    
    Agnes Arber - Botanist and philosopher of Science, many books such
    as Herbals, their Origin and Evolution, The Mind and the Eye and
    philosophical work: The Manifold and the One (1957)
    
    
    So there are important women scientists out there, lets here of
    some more.........  Thanks again
    
    Janice
    

    A slight typo against Mary Anning, name of previously unknown creature
    was PTERODACTYL not Pterodctly!!
    
    Janice
    

It's really sad that a criteria of "well known" is part of the name selection.
First of all, unless you're interested in science, a lot of names aren't well
known to the average person (either male or female).  Given that a lot of
history has ignored women, it makes it even less likely that women scientists
are known.  What's really sad is that they're missing an opportunity to educate
people.  Hey, I didn't know that a mountain called Jerimoth existed in Mass.
until they named a conference room after it.  The point is, I have learned a
lot from this topic, and if I worked in a facility that named the conference
rooms after scientists I would learn more about those scientists that I normally
wouldn't go out of my way to learn about.  I think they should instead make
the criteria "not-so-well known".

...Karen

    What *I* want to know is:  Why is Ada, Countess Lovelace, the first
    programmer in the whole world, and the inventor of the auto-increment
    instruction unacceptable?  In a computer company?
    
    							Ann B.
    
    P.S.  Have them reconsider Rosalyn Yalow too -- but on sentimental
    grounds.  The last I heard, she would not give up her PDP-8.

    Re: .24
    
    Ada Byron is NOT unacceptable, at least not here at Spit Brook.
    Of course, we ARE the home of DEC's Ada products, so I suppose we
    added some weight to the argument.  Countess Lovelace has a big
    conference room here, though smaller than her buddy Babbage, whose
    name is attached to the only auditorium at ZK (now is this
    discrimination or what?  He's a HARDWARE designer and this is
    a SOFTWARE facility!)  But at least Ada gets her picture and a quote
    on the wall.
    
    By the way, there have been various unsavory stories circulating
    among the Ada community about Ms. Byron, involving her drinking
    and gambling problems.  Good thing she never ran for President!
    
    					Steve (VAX Ada, VAXELN Ada)

    
    
    I think she was drinking and gambling with Babbage when the idea
    of the counting machine was mentioned.
    
    _peggy
    
    		(-)
    		 |	Numbers and race tracks = adding machines ?
    
    

    We have decided to 'do battle'.  We (two of the 'task force' ( two
    - so far!)) have decided not to accept this rejection of ALL our
    suggestions.  I have printed all the replies to my original note
    and we shall use them as ammunition.  I definitely agree with 397.23
    (I think it was .23), the criteria should be 'not-so-well known',
    we (the task force) have certainly learnt a lot from this project,
    and how are these women going to become 'well-known' if they're
    ignored!
    
    Will keep you informed of our progress, we have a meeting this Friday
    (31-JUL), but in the meantime..... more names? (and
    ammunition/arguments)?   
    
    Thanks to all for your contribs thus far......
    
    All for now
    Just nipping off to get the chariot, horses and battle dress ready
    ;-)
    
    Janice

RE .15, ET AL:

It is a sad reflection that in science as elswhere, the merits of what one
has accomplished are frequently not nearly as important as how much one
publicizes those accomplishments.  It is ironic that the name of one of
the contributers whose work was of paramount importance is hardly ever
mentioned in regard to this achievement.

Watson and Crick were not awarded the Nobel prize for the discovery of
the structure of DNA -- rather they were jointly awarded a 50% share of
the Nobel prize for that year.  The individual who was awarded the other
50% was Maurice Wilkes who (with Rosie Franklin) did the underlying "real
work" that Watson and Crick used to make their discoveries.

Wilkes and Franklin did the crystalography studies on DNA which provided
the pictures that Watson and Crick "stole" (if you don't believe it, read
Watson's book -The-Double-Helix-) so they could hog the credit.  The
selection committee for the Noble prize concluded that although Watson
and Crick's accomplishment was indeed singular, Wilkes and Franklin's
work was of equal stature and importance.  As .15 stated, Franklin would
likely have shared in the honor had she not died before the award was made.

    Janice,
    
    What ever happened?  Have you found the names for your conference
    rooms?
    
    I can't believe the world's first programmer isn't acceptable and
    that all of these names are not well known enough (Margaret Mead!).
    
    --Tracy
                             

    RE: .29
    
    Sorry, I've been on hols and the final decision was taken on the
    day before I went, so no time to post the outcome.  Anyway, this
    is what happened.
    
    The guy who was going to make the choice was on holiday, we wanted
    to get the decision quickly so that we could have the 'plaques'
    produced at the same time as the other 22, so we (the 'taskforce'
    (four women)) decided to make the decision.....
    
    We decided on Mary Somerville (mathermatician), who has a college
    at Oxford named after her - chosen for local interest (Oxford only
    30 miles away) and (of course) Ada Byron, Countess of Lovelace.
    
    The choices have not been rejected and we are going ahead now with
    our research.
    
    In the long term: Engineering in Dec Park currently occupy Dec Park
    II, but the people in Dec Park I are being moved to other locations
    so (as I understand it) Engineering will eventually take over the
    whole of DP, thus there a loads more conference rooms in DP I yet
    to be named..... SO I have kept all of the suggestions put forward
    in this topic (THANKYOU) and I will certainly argue for some of
    them again.
    
    BTW:  We (the 'task force') when looking for Women Scientists all
    agreed that it would be a good idea to find a black European woman
    scientist, but this search was not fruitful.  We did find two black
    women scientists (and my apologies for forgetting their names) but
    they were american (one pioneered chemo-therapy, the other (oh!
    gosh I've forgotten that too!) Anyway, they were mentioned in a
    book called "Women Pioneers of Science" writting by an american
    guy (yeah! you've guessed it, I've forgotten his name too!)  I've
    just returned the book to the library, so that my excuse!!
    
    Anyway, if anyone knows of any black/asian european women, I will
    gladly add them to my records for future reference.
    
    Thanks again for all your help.
    And if you ever visit DPII remember to have a look at the conference
    rooms!
    
    All for now
    Janice

Good Work, Janice!  Hurray for you and the other peeps in the taskforce.

Here's a thought if you do more research.  Call Oxford college and dig up a 
philosophy professor in epistolmology or history of science.  A professor 
in this field should be dripping with names.

   Meigs

    Good work!!
    
    -Tracy
    

    The Boston Museum of Science will have a "Women in Science" special
    exhibit from October 3, 1987 through January 3, 1988.  The description
    is as follows:
    
    Explore the achievements of women in science and engineering, and
    the barriers and attitudes affecting women's entry into, and success
    in science-related careers.  "Women in Science" features audio-visual
    material and interviews with a dozen contemporary women scientists
    and engineers.  Interactive displays quiz you on women's contributions
    to science, and examine such issues as math anxiety and gender
    stereotyping of careers.
    
    				Steve

In  reading  about  Matilda  Joslyn  Gage,  I  came  across  the  following
quotations  from  Stanton's  transcription  of  Gage's  speech  at the 1852
Syracuse National Convention:

"Helena  Lucretia  Corano,  in  the  seventeenth  century, was of such rare
scientific  attainments,  that  the  most  illustrious  persons  in passing
through  Venice,  were  more anxious to see her than all the curiosities of
the city; she was made a doctor, receiving the title of Unalterable."

"Mary  Cunity,  of  Silesia,  in the sixteenth century, was one of the most
able astronomers of her time, forming astronomical tables that acquired for
her a great reputation."

"Caroline Herschell shares the fame of her brother as an astronomer."

"Mrs.  [Mary] Somerville's renown has long been spread over both continents
as one of the first mathematicians of the present age."

There is also a mention of Maria Mitchell's accomplishments in science, but
I don't have details as to what.

For  medicine:  

In  1736  the  first  medical  botany  was  given to the world by Elizabeth
Blackwell,  "a woman physician". There were also "Lady Montague's discovery
of  a  check  to small pox, Madam Boivin's discovery of the hidden cause of
certain hemorrhages...".

This is from Dale Spender's _Women_of_Ideas_ (Ark Paperbacks, 1982).

I think only two of these, Somerville and Herschell were mentioned before.
My  previous  impression had been that Lady Montage brought back the small
pox inoculation to England from Persia, but I could well be mistaken.



Now, if we go further back, there are a couple of significant references to
women  in  the  lore  of the "Great Work", but so much of the literature of
alchemy  is  attributed  to  semi-mythical figures that it's really hard to
tell. However:

The mysterious Mary the Jewess, often identified with Miriam, the sister of
Moses,  is  frequently  referred  to  in  the  alchemical writings from the
Alexandrian  period onwards. "She has an excellent record of original work;
for  in  addition  to  the  discovery  of  Mary's  Black [(made by fusing a
led-copper  alloy with sulfur)], she is credited with the invention of the
water-bath--still  called  _bain-marie_  by  the gallant French--and of the
kerotakis"  [(a  closed  vessel  in  which  thin  leaves of metals could be
exposed to the action of various vapors, especially mercury)].

A  certain  Cleopatra (not the queen) was said to have invented the alembic
or still, another important apparatus for early puffers.

From Read's _Prelude_to_Chemistry:_An_Outline_of_Alchemy_ (MIT Press, 1966;
G Bell & Sons Ltd, 1936).
    

    Thanks for the last couple of contributions.
    
    The project (for Dec Park 2) was completed on 15-DEC-87, with the
    plaques being displayed outside the rooms, along with an A3 portrait
    of the person inside the room.  There are still a couple to go up,
    but they look absolutely terrific, especially Ada Byron and Mary
    Somerville; we managed to get hold of some excellent photos of both
    and our Media Services have really done them justice.  I hope you
    will look out for them when you visit Reading/DP2.
    
    Engineering (who occupy DP2) are gradually overflowing into DP1
    as other groups are moved to new locations and they wish to continue
    this project by naming the rooms in DP1.  We have just learnt today
    that there are about 100 rooms!!!!!  So.......
    
    Two of us have put forward about 30 names (50/50 m/f) but we need
    to find many more.  We are having a brain storming session in the
    next couple weeks to decide on criteria for choosing the names,
    but any suggestions of famous/not-so-famous people would be much
    appreciated.  Look forward to your replies.
    
    Janice

    Today in history:
    
    In 1968, British astronomer Jocelyn Burnell announced her discovery
    of the "pulsar"!