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Conference turris::womannotes-v1

Title:ARCHIVE-- Topics of Interest to Women, Volume 1 --ARCHIVE
Notice:V1 is closed. TURRIS::WOMANNOTES-V5 is open.
Moderator:REGENT::BROOMHEAD
Created:Thu Jan 30 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 30 1995
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:873
Total number of notes:22329

392.0. "Was there an Eve?" by YAZOO::B_REINKE (where the side walk ends) Tue Jul 14 1987 09:47

    Can we continue the conversation about the "first
    mother" in this note? see 369.60-369.81
    
    thanks
    
    Bonnie J
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392.1MANTIS::PARETue Jul 14 1987 10:3116
    The myth of The Great Mother or the Goddess is as old as time itself.
    The very first semblance of religious conciousness was the expression
    of the Earth Mother, the Fertility Goddess.  Recent studies suggest
    that there truly was such a person, that a woman actually existed
    from whom all living people today (black, white, red and yellow) are 
    descended.  She was a woman whoes love and maternal instincts were
    so strong and dynamic that she (quite literally) founded the race
    of mankind.  
    
    Today in Yogoslavia there have been (and are) confirmed sightings
    of a religious apparition, a woman.  She always begins her
    communications with the words "my dear children".
    
    This world of ours is out of balance, the yin and yang has shifted
    in a dangerous way.  I'd like to believe that the Great Mother is
    still with us somehow, watching over us and ensuring our survival.
392.2140K - 290kBANDIT::MARSHALLhunting the snarkTue Jul 14 1987 14:3116
    from _New_Scientist_ May 14, 1987 "All about Eve" pp51-53
    
    	"They estimate that the mutation rate for mitochondrial DNA
    	is about 2 to 4 per cent per million years. This fits with data
    	from other species. The Berkeley researchers then extrapolate
    	back to the likely date of the 'common ancestral mitochrial
    	genotype'. They conclude that the mitochondrial DNA of all 
    	living humans could be derived from a single woman who lived
    	in Africa between 140,000 and 290,000 years ago."
    
                                                   
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392.3VIKING::TARBETMargaret MairhiTue Jul 14 1987 14:437
    That sort of timing sounds *a lot* closer to the mark.  Unless we are
    to believe with the more rabid Fundamentalists that the fossil record
    is a divine hoax, any claim for a common ancestress who lived after the
    diaspora from Africa seems (as many have pointed out already)
    nonsensical on its face. 
    
    						=maggie
392.4Sustained monotonic mutation ? RETORT::UMINAFri Jul 17 1987 18:2411
    Right.  Of course each mutation moved in a positive direction,
    integrating upwards to form homo sapiens......wanta buy a bridge?
    
    What ever happened to entropy?  Suppose the physical facts and laws
    dont really count when you're trying to prove a point do they.
    
    I suggest counting your ribs might provide more insight, and it
    might even tickle!
    
    /LEn
    
392.5Evolution and ThermodynamicsBANDIT::MARSHALLhunting the snarkSun Jul 19 1987 00:1128
    
    re .4:
    
    To whom are you replying?
    
    Where do you get the assumption that each mutation "moved in a positive
    direction, integrating upwards to form homo sapiens"? 
    
    Whatever happened to entropy? Well, it is still there just as strong
    as ever, but in genetics, harmful changes tend to die, and cease to
    produce offspring, while beneficial changes tend to live and produce
    lots of offspring. Thus, over time, it appears that order arises
    out of chaos, yet it is just an illusion.
    
    Physical facts and laws most certainly DO COUNT. Try using them
    ALL and CORRECTLY! Apparently all you got from the Laws of
    Thermodynamics is the catchy paraphrase of "You can't win, You can't
    break even, You can't get out of the game". I suppose you don't
    realize that that applies only to a CLOSED system. The Earth is
    not a closed system, there is energy flowing into it continuously,
    in the form of sunshine.
    
                                                   
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392.6Catal Huyuk and Catal HacilarNEXUS::MORGANWelcome to the Age of FlowersSun Sep 06 1987 01:24161
    I don't think there was an EVE but this may shed some light on the
    subject. Perhaps the myth of Adam and Eve represent the beginning of
    Dominating type cultures and God based relgions and the abandonment of
    Partnership cultures and Goddess based religions. 
    
    [This reply contains material concerning Catal Huyuk, Catal Hacilar,
    equality of the sexes, religion and modes of interpreting archaeology.] 

    I have recently discovered a new book about how we interpret history.
    The book is _The Chalice_and_the_Blade:_Our_History,_Our_Future_ by
    Raine Eisler. 

    In this book Ms. Eisler describes, from a philosophical point of view,
    some of the misconceptions we have inherited from our predecessors. 

    Also Ms. Eisler describes the two types of cultures we have had in
    history. The latest is the Dominating culture in which one sex
    dominates the other and the older one is the Partnership culture in
    which both sexes are treated equally. Both of these are models of what
    we think was or is. So to get on with the topic... 

    Catal Huyuk and Catal Hacilar were excavated between 1961 and 1963.
    These sites date from 6250 BCE till about 5000 BCE. 

         "New excavations are increasingly conducted not by the lone
         scholar or explorer of earlier days but by teams of
         scientists--zoologists, botanists, climatologists,
         anthropologists, paleontologists, as well as archaeologists.
         This interdisciplinary approach characterizing more recent
         digs like Mellaart's at Catal Huyuk is yielding much more
         accurate understanding of our prehistory." 

         "But perhaps most important is that a number of remarkable
         technological breakthroughs, such as the Nobel Prize winner
         Willard Libby's dating means by radiocarbon, C-14, and the
         dendrochronological methods of dating by the girths of trees,
         have vastly increased archaeology's grasp of the past.
         Formerly, dates were largely a matter of conjecture--of
         comparisons of objects estimated to be less, equally, or more
         'advanced' than one another. But as dating became a function
         of repeatable and verifiable techniques, one could no longer
         get away with saying that if an artifact was more
         artistically or technologically developed, it must date to a
         latter and thus presumably more civilized time." 
 
         "As a consequence, there has been a dramatic reassessment of
         time sequences, which in turn has radically changed earlier
         views of prehistory. We know that agriculture--the
         domestication of wild plants as well as animals--dates back
         much earlier than previously believed. In fact, the first
         signs of what archaeologist call the Neolithic or
         agricultural revolution begin to appear as far back as 9000
         to 8000 BCE-that is more than 10000 years ago." 

         "The agricultural revolution was the single most important
         breakthrough in the material technology of our species.
         Accordingly, the beginnings of what we call Western
         civilization are also much earlier than was previously
         thought." 

         "With a regular, and sometimes even surplus, food supply came
         an increase in population and the first sizable towns.  Here
         hundreds, sometimes thousands, of people lived and worked,
         tilling and in many places also irrigating the land.
         Technological specialization as well as trade accelerated in
         the Neolithic. And, as agriculture freed human energy and
         imagination, such crafts as pottery and basket making,
         textile weaving and leather crafting, jewelry making and wood
         carving and such arts as painting, clay modeling and stone
         carving flourished." 

         "At the same time, the evolution of human consciousness
         continued. The first anthropomorphic religion, focusing upon
         the worship of the Goddess, now evolved into a complex system
         of symbols, rituals, and divine commands and prohibitions,
         all of which found expression in the rich art of the
         Neolithic period." 

         "Some of the most vivid evidence of this gynocentric artistic
         tradition comes to us from Mellaart's excavation of Catal
         Huyuk. Here, at the largest known Neolithic site in the Near
         East, there are thirty-two acres of archaeological remains.
         Only one twentieth of the mound has been excavated, but this
         digging alone uncovered a period spanning approximately eight
         hundred years, from about 6250 to about 5400 BCE. And what we
         find here is a remarkably advanced center of art, with wall
         paintings, plaster reliefs, stone sculptures, and large
         quantities of Goddess figurines made of clay, all focusing
         upon the worship of a female deity." 

         "'Its numerous sanctuaries', wrote Mellaart about Huyuk in
         summarizing his first three seasons of work (1961-1963),
         'testify to an advanced religion, complete with symbolism and
         mythology; its buildings to the birth of architecture and
         conscious planning; its economy to advanced practices in
         agriculture and stockbreeding; and its numerous imports to a
         flourishing trade in raw materials.'" 

         "But while the excavations carried out in Catal Huyuk, as
         well as Catal Hacilar, (inhabited from approximately 5700 to
         5000 BCE), have yielded some of the richest data about this
         early civilization, the southern Anatolian plain is only one
         of several areas where settled agricultural societies
         worshiping the Goddess have been archaeological documented.
         In fact, by circa 6000 BCE, not only was the agriculture and
         established fact, but--to quote Mellaart--'fully agricultural
         societies began expanding into hitherto marginal territories
         such as the alluvial planes of Mesopotamia, Transcaucasia,
         Transcaspia on the one hand, and into southeastern Europe on
         the other.' Moreover, 'some of this contact, as in Crete and
         Cyprus, definitely went by sea.', and in each case 'the
         newcomers arrived with a fully fledged Neolithic economy.'" 

         "In short, though only twenty-five years earlier,
         archaeologist were still talking about Sumer as the 'cradle
         of civilization', (and though this is still the prevailing
         impression among the general public), we now know there was
         not one cradle of civilization but several, all of them
         dating back millennia earlier than was previously known--to
         the Neolithic. As Mellaart wrote in his 1975 work
         _The_Neolithic_of_the_Near_East_, 'urban civilization, long
         thought to be a Mesopotamian invention, has predecessors at
         sites like Jericho or Catal Huyuk, in Palestine and Anatolia,
         long regarded as backwaters.'  Moreover, we now also know
         something else of great significance for the original
         development of our cultural evolution. This is that in all
         places where the first great breakthroughs in our material
         and social technology were made-to use the phrase Merlin
         Stone immortalized as a book title--God was a Woman." 

         "The new knowledged that civilization is much older and more
         widespread than was previously believed is understandably
         much new scholarly writings, with massive reassessment of
         earlier archaeological theories. But the central striking
         fact that in these first civilizations ideology was
         gynocentric has not, except among feminist scholars, generated
         much interest. If mentioned by nonfeminist scholars, it is
         usually in passing. Even those who, like Mellaart, do mention
         it, generally do so only as a matter of purely artistic and
         religious significance, without probing its social or
         cultural implications." 

         "Indeed, the prevailing view is still that male dominance,
         along with private property and slavery, were all by-products
         of the agrarian revolution. And this view maintains its hold
         despite the evidence that, on the contrary, equality between
         the sexes--and among all people--was the general norm in the
         Neolithic."   _The_Chalice_and_the_Blade_, pps 10-12 

    Equality between the sexes was arrived at by studying the art and
    graves of those peoples. The arts had no kings or heros conquering the
    enemy and indeed kings, chiefs or heros were not depicted at all. And
    usually burials of men and women were somewhat equal in their grave
    contents. In examining the burial mounds what was not found was
    entourages of individuals following the rich deceased into death. 

    Another important item is that Catal Huyuk and Catal Hacilar were _not_
    fortified cities. And neither exhibited damage from war for period
    spanning 15 centuries. Imagine not being a major power and existing for
    1500 years without being wiped from the face of the earth by another
    warlike power.
392.7update on eveYAZOO::B_REINKEwhere the sidewalk endsTue Jan 05 1988 20:422
    Newsweek this week has a long article on the topic of the
    first genetic mother of humanity.
392.8Nice Garden...NEXUS::MORGANIn your heart you KNOW it's flat.Wed Jan 06 1988 12:013
    Reply to .7; Bonnie,
    
    Yeah, I saw that. Adam and Eve are black too. Great picture...
392.9more dataSTUBBI::B_REINKEwhere the sidewalk endsFri Feb 19 1988 15:5114


    New evidence from two independent dating methods (thermoluminescence
    and electron spin resonance) show that tools associated with sketetons
    found in the Qafzeh cave in Galilee are 92,000 years old, thus
    indicating that man was not descended from Neanderthals. (Nature-Times
    News Service, 19-feb-1988).


    An article on this subject in the Boston Globe indicated that this
    was further support for the 'eve' hypothesis.
    
    Bonnie Jeanne