Conference turris::womannotes-v1

Treat it like a business problem.  Document EVERYthing.  When you get a 
good stack of complaints, try the following:

Present the evidence.  Calm, cool and collectively.  Do NOT, under ANY 
circumstances lose your temper.  Show your in-law just how invasive it is 
by pointing out how many times they have invaded your privacy.  Usually, 
when someone finds out how obnoxious they are, it stops.  If not, try step 
2.

Every time they ask to see your financial records, ask for theirs in 
return.  I silenced my own mother with this one.  She was constantly asking 
me how much I was making, where it was going, etc.  When she got a raise 
and I asked how much she was making [some time later], she said "enough".  
I pointed this out to her and I haven't had a problem since.

By the way how does "HER daughter" feel about this?

    Aha!  This is a perfect example of a personal power issue......
    and the very best weapon you have to deal with it is the truth.
    
    Make NO excuses, give NO explanations, do NOT retain records to
    show her...that would be relinquishing power.
    
    When she says that she doesn't understand why you haven't saved more 
    money (or whatever), look her straight in the eyes and tell her
    that she has offended you and you do not choose to discuss it.
    Period.  Then don't... ever.  
    

    	We lucked out in that we lived in Texas and both sets of
    	parents lived in Ohio.
    
    	I agree about the questions. I would demand of her exactly
    	what she demanded of me.
    
    	I also agree that your wife's attitude and input is very
    	important.
    
    	It's a tough, almost no-win situation.
    
    	Keep us posted.
    
    	Scott

    My mother-in-law likes to get involved in every detail of our lives,
    too.  I can't give you any advice for your situation since it's not
    really that similar to mine and there's no telling how much your
    mother-in-law is like my mother-in-law.  But maybe if I tell you how I
    handled mine, it will give you some ideas: 
    
    I made an early resolution to apply a family variant of the "Don't
    ascribe to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" -- I
    would assume that since she's the mother of the most wonderful man in
    the world, she must be a nice woman.  If she said tactless things, or
    tried to run our lives, or compared me unfavorably with her daughter,
    (all of which she did) she was acting out of concern rather than out of
    a desire to make me look bad. 
    
    This was not a valid assumption at the time.  They're Jewish, I'm
    Lutheran, they're NYC liberal, I'm Montana rowdy, they've been well-off
    most of their lives, I grew up broke, etc. Not to mention I was the
    unmarried mother of a 4-year-old.  She definitely thought Neil had made
    a mistake by marrying me.  But I wasn't about to be such a bitch I
    proved her right! 
    
    The first couple of years I spent a lot of time just nodding and
    saying, "You're probably right," "I'll give that a try," or -- this
    one was the best -- "Please tell me more."  
    
    Then I'd go home and do my best to forget it rather than counting
    up grievances. 

    This was not easy.      

    It worked two ways -- she thinks I'm a great listener, and when
    I actually listened to her, I found out she had some experiences
    and information that actually could be useful.  Not a lot, but enough
    that on the next visit I could say, "I tried cooking the fish the
    way you showed me and it was delicious."

    And that was when it got the worst -- after we got to know each other
    and started talking some.  Then she felt confident enough to ask me
    questions that were way off limits.  We had a couple of nasty fights.
    She thought we were too strict with Kathy -- her saying it didn't
    bother me, but as she got more confident, she actually tried to to
    interfere with our discipline.  We had to tell her point blank that she
    was out of bounds; we found it's effective only if her child is the one
    to tell her she has gone too far. 
    
    Things had degenerated even farther before I called up my original
    resolve, to assume she meant well, and tried to live by it for an
    especially unpleasant Labor Day weekend.  But in assuming she meant
    well, I couldn't stop asking why she wanted to know all the details of
    our domestic life, and I realized it was because we weren't telling her
    ANYTHING, not even the things about the kids that she might have an
    interest in knowing or a lot of perfectly neutral things it wouldn't
    matter if we told her or not.  And also that this wasn't so much a
    problem between her and me as it was between her and her son, since she
    was afraid *he* didn't love her any more. 
    
    So we made sure to bring pictures, tell both his parents more about
    what we did and why we were doing it.  I still have to listen to
    a lot of unneeded advice, and to nod and then forget it lots, but
    on the whole we've developed a good friendship now -- certainly
    something I never expected to happen.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    --bonnie

    p.s. I still get compared unfavorably to her own daughter every
    now and then . . . 

    It's up to your spouse to tell off your mother in law. Nothing
    will get better as long as she thinks her kid approves of what
    she is doing.
    
    I'm lucky in that I have one of the all time great mothers in law.
    My poor wife, on the other hand, has one of the all time worst
    father in laws. Things never started getting better until I started
    telling my father off. I wish I'd done it years ago.
    
    			Alfred

    
    This may sound strange, but I don't know whether its worse to have
    a meddling mother-in-law or one that sort of ignores you.  I've
    been married a little over a year and I really have no idea where
    I stand with this woman.  My husband's sister is much the same way.
    My mother-in-law lives in a basement apartment with my sister-in-law
    and her husband.  I never get to see either one of them alone. 
    
    What I mean by being ignored is that when my husband isn't around,
    they don't want to spend time with me.  My husband goes on 5 or
    6 business trips a year.  My mother-in-law usually calls me once
    or twice to find out if my husband called me and made it to his
    destination, but I'm never invited over.  When I go out of town,
    my husband is always invited over for dinner.  When my mother-in-law
    is alone (sister-in-law out of town), we make sure that we call
    her and invite her out at least once.
    
    When my husband and I are together with her, I'm not just a guest,
    but almost like an alien guest.  I always offer to help with dinner
    or bring a dish, and I'm rarely allowed to.  I try to ask them about
    their jobs, or talk about current events and get little or nothing
    out of them.  Sometimes I've been assertive enough to bring a side-dish
    or dessert for dinner without asking them, and if my husband decides
    to eat what I've brought, my mother-in-law says "you can eat that
    at home!"
    
    And then there's money.  She makes very little money as a teacher's
    aid and is very bitter about it.  She has made it clear that she
    resents our fairly good incomes.  And, we don't flaunt (sp?) anything.
    We live within our means.  When I'm with her or she's at my house,
    sometimes I feel like I need to apologise for what we have!  Stupid!
    And, what's worse, for our wedding my parents got together with
    her to talk about tentative plans.  She never said one thing about
    the plans while we were together - she thought she had to pay for
    the wedding and told my husband she couldn't afford it.  THEN, when
    she realized that my parents were paying for the wedding, she offered
    to pay for the cake.  Shortly afterwards, she booked a trip to Britain
    on the QE2 (going) and returned on the Concorde!!  My parents and
    I were really irritated, but what could we do?
    
    Sorry this is so long.  There are a lot of things going on here
    - I can tell she's jealous of me and my husband says that I intimidate
    her.  And, I'm sorry I can't help with the meddling mother-in-law
    problem.  I wish mine would meddle, then I'd be clear on what she
    thinks of me!
    
    thanks for "listening"
    
    Anna
        

    re: .6 --
    
    That sounds awful.  At least when you're sniping at each other,
    she's acknowledging your existence and you've got a chance to build
    something healthy.
    
    Through lots of work I've managed to make my relationship with my
    mother-in-law cordial, and I'm glad I took the trouble; she turns out
    to be a wonderful woman with a great sense of humor. Since she was a
    career woman long before it was fashionable, she's been able to give me
    a lot of good advice about how to deal with the stresses of family and
    career. But I could never have done it if she hadn't been willing to
    interact with me. 

    I can think of two possible things you might try.
    
    Next time your husband is out of town, YOU invite HER to do something,
    and make it something cheap.  Maybe a visit to a special exhibit at a
    museum, or a concert on the Common, or a boat ride out to George's
    Island for a picnic, or whatever your locality offers that you think
    she might be interested in.  (You don't mention kids, but if you have
    some, they make a great excuse.) 
    
    The other is to try thinking how you would behave if this difficult
    person who refused to acknowledge your existence was a coworker
    who had been passed over for a promotion you got, instead of a member
    of your family.  Sometimes if you can think of an analagous situation
    in a less emotionally loaded context, you can see some less emotional
    things you can do to deal with the situation.

    Good luck!
        
    re: .5 (I think) --
    
    Unless it's definitely an issue that involves both of you, such
    as child-raising practices, I strongly recommend not getting your
    spouse involved.  
    
    We're grownups now, we can take care of ourselves, and we don't need
    our husbands or wives to bail us out of difficult situations with
    difficult people, whether they're members of the family, neighbors, or
    coworkers.  Our relation with our spouse's parents is our own
    responsibility. 

    --bonnie

    RE: .7 RE: Getting the spouse involved. Of course, I can only
    go on my own limited (10 years) experience with one family. Not
    getting involved when my father was making my wife's life measurable
    almost cost me my marriage. So I feel strongly about that option.
    
    Separating responsibility for relationships with spouse's parents
    (or anything else) goes 100% against the idea of marriage for me
    because I believe that a spouse 'owes' it to their spouse to provide
    a safe family atmosphere. If ones parent is making family life
    unsafe (emotionally or otherwise) it is their responsibility to help
    make things better.
    
    Secondly, doing things unilaterally (with out the spouse's help
    and 100% support) means that the offending in-law can use or try
    to use that to drive a wedge between the marriage partners. I've seen
    it happen and it's not pretty. Having a child read the riot act
    to a parent regarding treatment of a childs spouse sends a clear
    message that the marriage partners are "one flesh" (to use an Biblical
    term) and are to be treated as a unit not to be broken up.
    
    			Alfred

    Thanks for all the replies so far.  My situation seems to be a bit
    like all of yours.  I haven't talked to my mother-in-law since that
    day and don't plan to at this point.  Our problem is slightly different
    in that my husband has wanted to open a business (VERY expensive
    one) and they have told him all his life that they would help -
    e.g., contributing (not a loan) a large sum of money. 
    So when the time came they reneged.  However, they said that they
    would lend us money - that is where they think they can ask us about
    money.
    
    My in-laws have always wanted to know everything about us.  They
    wanted to know things I would never even tell MY mother - let alone
    his!  I find it difficult to have a conversation with her that does
    not involve 1)money or 2)my husband's business.  Let me tell you
    - it gets boring.  With my however, I can talk about loads
    of things becuase she has lots of interests, and has decided long
    ago not to interfere - and never has!  They live far away though,
    and my in-laws live close.  she has an extremely close relationship
    with her daughter and they tend to gang up against me.  Doesn't
    ever matter that I'm right about something...
    
    But, this time the argument had better stick.  I will not ever discuss
    anything with her again that smacks of personal stuff.  She likes
    to compare us to people, but when we compare ourselves to people
    says not to compare!  Well, so be it.
    
    The shame of it is that we won't go to see them as often and I know
    my son should see them frequently.  It is painful on all sides.
    
    Thanks, I still welcome ideas now that you have a little more
    background.