Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    I thought this had been discussed in PARENTING (new or old), but
    I can't find it. I believe there were some references there that
    might be useful.
    
    I'm 35, and am running into a similar problem. It isn't that I
    desperately want a baby - that would make a decision somewhat simpler;
    instead, I find myself wondering what I'll feel like in another
    ten years if I don't start a family now. Oh, there's always the
    possibility of adoption, but to be honest I'm rather proud of my
    family and would like our "bloodlines" should be preserved.
    
    From what I've read, while there are increased risks as a mother
    approaches her 40's, the risks aren't as high as once thought. There
    have certainly been a lot of celebrities having kids at ages 35
    to 45 lately, and (as far as I know) the kids are all right. If
    you're healthy and don't have a family history of birth problems
    you've probably got a good shot at a successful pregnancy.

    I can't help with the patience angle. I have the same doubts, and
    am torn between "think of all the things I could teach a child"
    and "what if I couldn't handle it".

    Sometimes I wish the choice weren't up to us; with choice comes
    responsibility, and it's a *big* responsibility.
    
    But only sometimes!

    -b

    
    You also have to think about the child, when he/she grows up! My
    mom was 40 when she had me, and my dad 39. Granted when I was small
    I really didn't notice that they were alot older than my friends
    parents. When I was about 10, their "age" got to me. I was very
    much into skiing, as my parents were "great" skiiers in there prime,
    and they didn't have the drive to take long ski vacations with a
    "kid". Don't get me wrong, my parents aren't old farts, just their
    loosing their reflexs through the natural age process. My father
    still skiis very well, at 64. He golfs and bikes too. My mom on
    the other hand, gave up downhill skiing when I was 11 so that made
    it even harder to go on ski vacations. She bikes now and walks and
    is in great shape. It was just hard to do family things. Even homework,
    my parents were well educated, for their day, but had no idea what
    Trig and Physics were all about. Then there's the old-fashioned
    values.... I won't even get into that! 
    
    Overall, my parents are wonderful people! They have given me everything
    they could, but I sometimes feel like I missed out on alot. Then
    I think how lucky I am to have parents who love me.
    
    Another interesting point? My father retired when I was 15. When
    it snowed out, he used to have me skip school to go skiing! Sometimes
    I think I put alot of youth in their later years.
                                                     
    
    Well just something I think you should consider.
    
    Mel

    Jane, I'm not speaking from experience here (30 and no children
    yet), but I believe the "no patience now that I'm older" myth is
    a lot of bunk.  I can't imagine that someone would 
    have more patience than someone with a wealth of experience and
    maturity.  My opinion.  I've heard too many twenty-year-olds screaming
    at their children.
    
    Gloria
    

    My mother was 41 when she had me my day was 45, a year and a half
    later she had my baby sister.
    
    Although as I was growing up, my mother seemed "older" than my friends
    parents, she never displayed any type of old virtues on us, she
    was a very up-to-date parent, and I never felt cheated because my
    parents were so much *older* than those of my friends.
    
    According to her if she had it to do all over again, she wouldn't
    change a thing.  And as for me, if I could pick my parents, I would
    choose the ones I have (well, my mother anyway).  
    
    CC
    

	My wife and I waited until 32/33 for our first, who's now 2.
Emotionally/Financially we are glad we did. Physically, there are days
when we think maybe teenage parenthood wouldn't have been such a bad
idea :-) :-)

	Bottom line: a unique mixture of wearying and *joyful*.
Dwell excessively on the awesomeness of the responsibility and you'll
scare yourself out of it. Check that you've got the basic emotional &
material wherewithal and then dive in...

    I'm 35 now and Alison is approaching 1.5.  We absolutely ADORE being
    parents.  It's the most rewarding, frustrating, wonderful and tiring
    thing we've ever done. 
    
    I have almost NO time to myself anymore (I'm cutting back my work
    week to three days after this project ends...) and my husband and
    I have had ONE weekend alone together since she was born.  There
    are times I feel like all I do is work.  Somehow we have three times
    as much dirty laundry to wash as we did before, and I just noticed
    the crayon marks on the coffee table... 
    
    BUT, she's starting to talk real words now, and you need a towel
    after she kisses you, and every minute I see a change and growth
    and it's fantastic to watch.  Yes, it's VERY tiring and wearing
    to be a parent, but somehow you find the patience.  My husband and
    I are closer because of this shared experience.  The rewards far
    outweigh the trouble.
    	Susan
      

    My parents were 35 when they had their first kid, and 41 when they
    had me.    Their experience made them wonderful and understanding
    and able to relate to me while also able to give me the benefit
    of their experience.  My personal feeling is that 25 is too young to
    have kids (no offense intended to anyone).    With kids, the system is
    going to have to be bucked now and then (example, teacher tells
    parent that little girls just have to learn to deal with rock throwing
    boys who just want some attention), and a mature (35+) parent is
    going to be less likely to take that crap seriously--and further,
    a mature parent is more likely to know what to do.
    
    Tamar

    Thanks, everyone--
    
    I appreciate the responses to this note.  (Believe me, it wasn't
    easy to ask advice on this one!)  I'm very encouraged by some of
    the replies.  Where I don't plan to have a child tomorrow :-), I
    do think a lot about it, and I thank you all for sharing your thoughts
    and experiences with me.
    
    I'll let you know whenever I decide to take the plunge!
    
    Jane

    This is a little late, but since I had my first when I was 19 and
    my second when I was 30, I feel like I've done it both ways so maybe
    I can compare just a little bit.
    
    First of all, age doesn't have anything to do with what kind of parent
    you'll make.  Some very young women are very good mothers -- the
    21-year-old mother of three preschoolers down the street who just
    barely graduated from high school comes to mind.  She dances in the
    sprinkler with her kids, teaches them how to make paper airplanes,
    takes them to the fire department and to museums, and knows what seems
    like a million cheap educational games.  Some older and experienced
    mothers are too wrapped up in their careers or their own interests to
    make room for the child.  This is a matter of your personality. Your
    age doesn't automatically increase or decrease your qualifications.
    
    Second, you can't tell a whole lot about how you'll deal with your own
    children by how you deal with other people's children, especially with
    regard to how much patience you have.  
    
    I don't like kids in the generic, or in groups, and I don't have much
    tolerance for a number of the less savory sides of child-rearing, like
    foul smells and lots of noise.  But my own children, these two separate
    precious lives that I carried inside me, that I've known since their
    first breath, that I've held and comforted through bruises and tears
    and laughter and discovery -- that's different. 

    This can also go the other way.  I used to be friends with a very dear
    man, a tender, gentle, sympathetic, understanding man who taught first
    grade for many years and was considered one of the best teachers in the
    school system. Everyone thought he would make an ideal father.  But his
    own father was an abusive alcoholic and when he had kids, the pressure
    of trying to support his family pushed him into drinking and he
    re-enacted his father's behavior.  He's now in counselling learning how
    to break the cycle, but it's not easy.
    
    My advice is to go for it.  Kids are wonderful; the rewards far
    outweigh the difficulties.  
    
    On the other hand, don't let anybody push you into it if it's not
    what you want!
    
    --bonnie

    My mother was 31 and handicapped when I was born, and my step-father
    (from infancy) was 41 years older than I.
    
    When I was 10 he had his first (of many) heart attacks.  When I
    was 12, he came down with Tuberculosis.  When I was 16 he had his
    first of several strokes.  I spent my college years taking care
    of my parents and little brother.  I never got to do all of the
    partying that most other people who went to college got to do. 
    I didn't go camping until I was 23.  I did extremely little dating
    (almost none) after my step-father's stroke until my mother divorced
    him, then got into a relationship with the first person who was
    nice to me after that.  Doomed to failure from the beginning.  Now,
    I do not want children because, according to what I've worked out
    with my therapist, I have already *had* more responsibility than
    I want, in a sense, I've already raised my family and have no desire
    to do it again.
    
    I am not saying that all older parents will leave their children
    with this kind of situation, but it is one to consider.  If you
    are 40 when they are born, you will be 62 when they get out of college.
    Will you be able to do things with/for them like other parents do?
    
    I do see the other side, that younger parents are concerned with
    too little money, careers, etc., that may make postponing parenthood
    wise for them.
    
    However, there are advantages to having older parents.  My mother
    particularly was very patient with all of the little things that I and
    my brother did as children.  For example, when I was about 3 I colored
    the newly painted walls.  Rather than spanking me, which would have
    only proved she was bigger than me,  she said "Ok, now that you've
    colored the walls, you can clean them". She got out some cleaner,
    showed me how to use it, and sat there and watched me spend over an
    hour cleaning it (an eternity to a 3 year old!).  I still remembered
    it, didn't particularly like cleaning the walls, and never did that
    again.  I can site other such cases that I would not even think of
    trying. 
    
    Just another child's experience,
    
    Elizabeth

    I was also the child of older parents.  One regret I have always
    had, and will always have, but that obviously can't be helped,
    is that I never got to see or know my parents as young people. 
    I've seen pictures and heard stories, but it's not the same.  I've
    only known their middle-aged and elderly years.

    My mother was 36 and my father 48 when I was born.  I grew up in
    the 50's and 60's when everyone else, or so it seemed, had parents
    who were about 20 when they had kids.  The first time I became aware
    of having older parents was one day in the fourth grade when my
    father dropped me off a school during recess.  My father's hair
    had turned completely white by the time he was 50.  I can't remember
    him with brown hair.  This particular day a lot of kids playing
    at recess saw me be dropped off by my father.  One of the girls
    asked me if that was my grandfather.  I said, no.  It was my father.
     The other little girl said, "You have an old man for a father."
     Then, about 3 little girls started chanting at me, "Lorna has an
    old man for a father.  Lorna has an old man for a father."  Kids
    hate to be made to feel different and I can still remember how awful
    I felt.  I was too young to rationalize that the other kids were
    just ignorant idiots, and too shy and polite to tell them to go
    to hell, like I would today.  But, today more and more people are
    having kids at older ages so perhaps the above cruel little scene
    would never happen again.
    
    Other negative experiences of having older parents were my father
    suffering a heart attack at the age of 62 when I was 13.  He had
    to retire, and since he had no pension, we lived on social security
    all during the time I was in high school.  Needless to say, we were
    rather poor, and all I heard during high school was, "Remember we
    can't give you any money.  Whatever you do after high school you're
    on  your own.  We can't send you to college.  We can't
    pay for a wedding if you get married.  So you'd better get a job."
    
    My father died of a heart attack when I was 27 and he was 75.  If
    he were alive now he would be 86 years old.  Most people my age
    have grandparents that age.  I guess I've always kind of felt that
    I would have had him around longer if he hadn't waited so long to
    have kids, kind of like I got cheated.
    
    This past March my mother had an artery break in her head.  She
    has recovered physically, but mentally is totally disoriented. 
    She doesn't really know who we are or understand much of what's
    going on.  Now my brother and I are having to find a nursing home
    to place her in as she can't be left unattended, and trying to figure
    how out to apply for medicaid, etc.  When you have older parents
    you deal with having elderly parents at a much younger age, 37,
    for example, instead of 60.  Having your parents grow old and die
    is a horrible experience and I, for one, would have liked to have
    put it off another 20 years if possible.
    
    Another negative aspect was due to the times I was growing up in.
     My parents were very old fashioned.  They didn't believe in drinking,
    having sex before marriage, swearing, smoking, drugs (obviously).
     I was a teenager in the 60's so the conflict was pretty violent
    at times.
    
    I had my daughter when I was 24.  Now she's 13 and I'm 37 and we
    have definitely shared some experiences that my mother and I never
    did.  For example, we have drooled together at rock concerts over
    Billy Idol and Jon Bon Jovi.  We have borrowed one another's clothes.
     I overheard my daughter say to a friend a couple weeks ago, "It's
    great to have a mother with good taste!" :-).  I love being able
    to deal with my daughter more and more as an equal, instead of as
    an adult and a child.  Even though I think women should have children
    at whatever age they want, I find myself thinking of having a baby
    as something that I did when I was practically a kid.  At the time
    she was born I was very into having a baby, now I couldn't imagine
    ever wanting to again.
    
    As far as the patience factor of older mothers goes, that is an
    individual thing.  My mother had more patience with little kids
    when she was in her late 30's and early 40's than many women ever
    do.  She used to read to me, and play dolls with me, and even color
    with me by the hour.
    
    I guess it's a toss-up.  I have often wished my parents were younger,
    but I am amazed sometimes talking to other people my age that so
    many seem to be nowhere near as close to their parents as I was.
     They made a lot of mistakes but I still loved them.
    
    Lorna
    

    Lorna - My Mom was 31 when I was born and my Dad 33 - they went
    on to have two more children - the youngest being born when my
    Dad was 41. I can relate to much of what you are talking about -
    especially as it affected my youngest sister (who by the way
    had her first baby at 34). But one thing Lissa always said when
    asked if she wished thaour folks had had their last baby sooner
    - was "no, because then that baby wouldn't have been me!"
    
    Bonnie

    I guess I have always been a believer in having children at a young
    age.  My parents had me when they were 20 and my brother when they
    were 22.  I am 23 now, and have no children.  I am married and I
    hope to start a family as soon as God feels it is right.
    
    My family and I have always been very close.  My parents to my brother
    and I are friends, not family.  When my brother gets married he
    wants to have my dad be the best man.  They are best friends, and
    my mother and I are the same.  Before I got married (I got married
    a year ago) my mother and I talked all the time about ANYTHING.
    My mother had a very open mind, and I honestly believe it is because
    of the closeness in age (after all 20 years isn't a big difference).
    Today we can still talk about anything.  My husband and I spend
    countless hours with my parents.  We go away together because we
    enjoy each others company.  We have a ball!  My parents are 44 and
    43 today.  Both of their children are grown and out on their own.
    They can enjoy life now, travel, see the world, no more babysitters,
    and they still have their health!  They are still young and are
    just beginning their life together.
    
    The best thing about this situation is that I have a big family...
    I still have all four of my grandparents and still have 2 great
    grandparents!!  We are all very close and it is wonderful to sit
    down with my great grandfather and talk about his life which started
    in 1892!  He is wonderful as are all my grandparents and I feel VERY
    privileged to still have them with me.  I know my history, I don't
    just hear about it.  I dread the day I lose one of my great
    grandparents, and it seems that most people in this note are talking
    about what it was like to lose a parent at my age.
    
    The benefits of having children young speak for themselves in my
    eyes.  Granted, as we grew up money was tight, but we are better
    off today because of it.  Parents are always so afraid they won't
    be able to give their children the best of everything, and yes all
    parents do want the best of everything for their kids... but sometimes
    giving the best of everything can hurt more than it helps!  My brother
    and I never got EVERYTHING we ever wanted, we had to work for what
    we got!  I think it made us better people because of it.  We don't
    take things for granted.
    
    Enough said, this is my first reply to the womannotes.  I guess
    I spoke my peice.
    
    Renee

    I was nearly 35 when I had my daughter.
    
    For me, the negative side of having her so late is that I have a
    really difficult time adjusting to the disappearance of "time for
    me."  After almost 35 years of being rather self-indulgent, I am
    often in a state of frustration at the lack of time "for just me"
    in my life.
    
    When the weekend comes, I am initially excited to spend some good
    time with Kelly (now 3), as I've been working all week. But by
    Sunday morning, I wish I could sleep late, have a leisurely
    brunch with my husband, and maybe just be a lazy slob all day!
    Or perhaps I'd like to just once, get my housework and errands
    done SOLO... without the constant attention and interruption
    a child needs.
    
    I don't mean to imply that a younger mother doesn't have the same
    responsibilities, only that perhaps she doesn't miss the freedom
    she never or seldom had, as I do.
    
    As for how my daughter will feel about us, well my husband is
    8 1/2 years younger than I, so she should have a fairly good
    balance.  And as to the joys of parenthood, they are like no other.
    
    Good luck,
    Jacki
    
    

    
    RE: 354.16
    
    I CAN REALLY RELATE TO THE NOTE FROM 354.16.  ALTHOUGH I AM 27 AND
    JUST HAD A LITTLE ONE AND LOVE HIM DEARLY, I DO MISS THE QUIET TIME
    THAT I USED TO BE ABLE TO SPEND WITH MY HUSBAND.  NO ONE EVER PREPARES
    YOU FOR MOTHERHOOD, YOU JUST ADJUST.  
    
    ON THE OTHER HAND, I AM GLAD THAT I DID HAVE HIM AT 27.  I'M CONVINCED
    THAT THE LATER IN LIFE YOU WAIT, THE HARDER IT IS TO ADJUST TO LIFE
    WITH A CHILD.
     D