Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    Hi Art--
    
    I know what you are talking about--we (my partner and I) have had
    people say the same thing about us.  He is Italian, and grew up
    in that atmosphere of "the women serve, the men are kings".  However,
    like you, he is a caring, understanding, and sharing person who
    is more than willing to do his part of the work.  I happen to be
    the kind of person who really enjoys "doing" for others;  especially
    for him.  It is part of the way I show my love.  When I am strapped
    for time or resources, I know I can always ask him for help, and
    he'll drop everything to give me a hand.
    
    My feeling is that it's NOBODY'S BUSINESS, especially in your own
    house, how you do things.  That "why don't you get up and get it
    yourself" is uncalled-for.  If someone is so rude as to say that in
    my house, I tell them, "We do things OUR way in OUR house," and
    it usually shuts them up.  
                                                         
    Your relationship with your wife is between the two of you, and
    is not a subject for discussion by other people.  Others will always
    have their opinions about you, and everything else in the world
    that's not their business, but you don't have to listen to it in
    your own house.
    
    Good luck with it!
    
    Jane

    Maybe it is out of ignorance.  I think many people in the United
    States dont have much opportunity or need to live in other cultures.
    We are a large, somewhat isolated country.  I might know something
    about Mexico if I live in Texas, but Texas is still a long way from
    Boston and other parts of the U.S.
    
    I dont think the particular stereotype you mentioned is accepted
    more by women than men in this country.  I think you are just 
    hearing from the women.  
    
    I have a question for you.  When we say American in the United States
    we usually mean a citizen of the U.S. despite the fact that there is a
    North America, a Central America and a South America.  Do people of
    other countries use "American" to mean from the U.S.? 

    I'm *glad* you brought this topic up!  This is something I've been
    thinking about a lot very recently.
    
    I've gotten a lot out of notes files like womannotes and mennotes
    in that lately I've been challenging *all* the stereotypes that I
    see people using.
    
    Recent example:  A friend of mine was telling me that his girlfriend's
    parents won't come to Boston to see her graduate from Harvard because
    her father has never been out of Minnesota and doesn't want to travel.
    I asked if his wife could come without him.  Things went something
    like this.
    
    Dick: Well, you've got to understand these people are from middle
    America, the Midwest and they don't do things like that.
    
    Me: Yeah, all those Midwest people, they're *all* like that, right?
    
    Dick: Well, they're dairy farmers, have been all their life, and
    have never been out of their town.
    
    Me: Yeah, those dairy farmers, they're all alike, huh?
    
    Dick: Well, her mother would never come without her father - they
    were married at 18 and she wouldn't do that.
    
    Me: Yeah, people who marry young, they're all like that, right?
    
    You get the idea.  In an exchange where someone says something like
    "<insert favorite nationality - Mexican, Italian, etc.> are all
    X, all do Y, etc.", I respond with "Don't you think people should
    be judged on an individual basis?" and it usually works fine.  If
    the person persists, I keep repeating the question until the person
    shuts up.

    	-Ellen

    Well, the first time I visited Ecuador, I was stamped "norteamericano",
    but the second time it read "estados unidos".

RE: .0
>    Please don't get me wrong, I just want to know WHY people and in
>    this case WOMEN, tend to stereotype a WHOLE nation based upon perhaps
>    on the things they have seen in movies or God knows where...
 
    
    Unfortunately sterotyping is the more the norm than the exception
    in this country.  I think it is just a way (possibly the only
    way) the person doing the sterotyping can feel superior to the person, 
    nationality, religion, etc they are sterotyping.
    
 
RE: .6
>    The base note rasies a good point and I think we should all be aware
>    of our roles as guests and as host/hostess, including being a
>    host/hostess to our S.O. during the course of entertainment.

    Unless there is a previous agreement between the persons acting
    as host/hostess, when people are invited to their home the people
    that extended the invitation are acting as host/hostess to THEIR
    GUESTS, not as host/hostess to their S.O.  I think if someone has 
    those feelings in their own home then something is out of kilter.

    The other point you raised in the your statement but evidently
    don't feel has to be followed is, GOOD MANNERS dictate when we are
    GUESTS in someone's home WE don't have the right to impose OUR
    social, political, religious beliefs on the host/hostess, see .1 for 
    a good statement on this.  If during the normal course of the party 
    these issues are part of the converstion then a guest can
    express their views but at no time does the guest tell the host/hostess
    they have to adopt the guests way of living, believing, etc; that very
    simply is GOOD MANNERS.  If someone were to make the kind of statements 
    outlined in .0; I would inform them once as stated in .1, but if they 
    persisted I would then tell them to leave.
    
    
    JEF    
    
      

    "Good manners" often equated to "acting like a lady" while I was
    growing up, and I consequently rejected a number of habits equating
    to good manners as a result.
    
    JEF in the previous note made a good point, though.  In many cases
    good manners is another way of being considerate and respectful
    of others, and not an oppressive class system to weed out the upper
    and upper middle class from the rest of the world!
    
    I would like to see more of a return to "essential" good manners --
    a system of getting along with people in comfortable, respectful
    ways, but which is not sexist or classist.

    
    Re: the term 'American'
    
    In my travels all through western Europe, I heard the term American
    used to mean _a citizen of the United States_ whenever the people
    where speaking in English (usually to me or my companions).  I don't
    have any idea if they practice that same usage when speaking in
    their native tongue.
    
    Rich

    Just a humourous thought.....
    
    No stereotyping. Honest I have seen this happen up in the Northeast
    as well....
    
    I remeber not too long ago I was in Northern Texas with my friends
    visitng some of her relatives. But I remember the most vivid thing
    was when her uncle patted Paula on the behind and said (honest!!)
    "Get your uncle a beer sugar." Not only was she busy with something
    else he was also about three yards closer to the cooler (I think
    at was almost at his feet.) She just looked at him and said "Get
    it yourself." Well he almost had kittens on the porch!! :-) But
    he did in fact get it himself. A little shock to the less liberated
    cultures!
    
    Debbi
    
    Made me want to laugh but we had to wait until we were out of ear
    shot!
    
    

    Reading this made me pick up my dictionary which has the following
    as the 2nd definition of "stereotype":
    
    	A fixed idea or popular conception.
    
    Therefore it makes sense that not _all_ stereotypes = bad press
    for those involved.  "All X are like Y" may be a positive judgement
    as well as a negative one.
    
    I think the real harm that comes of using stereotyping as a constant
    mental habit means that one's mind is not being stretched.  One
    is not learning or growing very much if one relies solely on "popular
    fixed ideas or conceptions" to tell one how to behave with, react 
    to, judge or otherwise "pigeonhole" another person.  Stereotypes 
    probably evolve to enable people not to feel superior towards another 
    but as a "quick-and-dirty" method of getting to where another person 
    is at--call it a classification method, if you will.  They make
    life a little "easier" for the person doing the stereotyping.  Doesn't
    require much mental work to place someone in the Grand Scheme of
    Things if you got your stereotypes down pat.  ;-)
    
    Unfortunately, most of those classification schemes are extremely
    resistant to revision <sigh>.
    
    Marcia