Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    I don't see this as any different than if it were three male engineers
    telling you that they are scheduled for necessary medical work in six
    months which will involve a lengthy recovery period.  That's the way it
    goes.  Use the information wisely, see if you can get some temporary
    help from internal consulting groups, and work with the three to make
    the transition as easy as you can. 
    
					Steve

    Someone used just this scenario for an April Fool's Day joke - that
    manager was really starting to get upset!!
    
    

    
    	First, Check the water, there could be something iin the water
    	getting people pregnant. 8*)....
    
    	Second, Consult Personnel, you might be able to get contract
    	workers to replace them.
    
    	Third, don't panic, it's not your fault...
    
    			Mike
    

    Without being aware of it the manager might in the future be less
    willing to staff her organization with young, married women.
    

    RE; .4  YES, THATS WHAT I'M AFRAID OF!!!
    
    Background info;  I was talking to a manager at LMO, sighing because
    there are so few professional, technical women here.  I commented
    that I would really enjoy working with other technical women.  Then
    he started in with the "what if" scenerio.
                                    
    I had absolutely never thought about anything like this.  In general,
    how do managers handle maternity leave for higher level employees
    that have skills so specialized that a contract or temp may not
    be able to fill in?
    
    -Nancy

    If hiring managers are acting on this kind of belief (even
    subconsciously) it feels like a major step back into the dark ages.
    
    I remember being 20 and married and trying to buy a house with my
    husband.  (This was 1972 or 1973).  We got turned down because my
    salary "didn't count" because I "had no control" over the possibility
    of getting pregnant.  They sat there in the bank and TOLD me that.
    I was prepared to swear on a stack of Bibles that I would not get
    pregnant for at least 5 years, if ever, and the bankers and realtor
    snickered and smiled at me and said "That's what all the girls
    say...and accidents do happen!".
    
    I think that was the beginning of making a feminist out of me.
    Remembering it gets me furious 15 years later!
                                                  
    
    Holly

    <--(.5)
    
    He lets them take their systems home so that they can continue to work.
    This of course presumes that the manager has already developed the sort
    of relationship with them that would motivate them to support him in
    that way; if he hasn't, he probably deserves what he gets. 
    
    						=maggie 

    Anybody know of a group where anything like this really happened?
    Or even just one short-notice pregnancy of a highly skilled group
    member? Seems to me if someone was motivated enough to be at such
    an important position, they'd plan their pregnancy carefully. At
    least, I would.
    	Mez

    You know what I'd do?? And that beginning ought to disqualify me
    as a manager right there -- :*)...
    
    First of all, I'd put through 3 -- count 'em 3 -- 9-month reviews
    and force feed these people with some nice Golden Handcuffs.
    
    Secondly, I'd offer a little bribery:  stock options, flexible work
    hours, and some real nice soothing chat about how great it is to
    be a working mom!!
    
    Thirdly, I'd sit my higher ups down and offer them a compromise
    on the schedule so that we're NOT making outrageous commitments
    for the months that these babes are due!!!!!  Make the month before
    and the month after as stressless as possible.
    
    I'd also be working a few weekends myself, I suppose.
    
    Fourthly, there would be terminals, modems, and telephone lines
    for these three.
    
    Now, I realize this pre-supposes that I have a budget that would
    accommodate it... but my point is that I wouldn't treat these
    pregnancies as an end of the line for either my project or my
    engineers.
    
    I think that if you support people physically, emotionally, and
    financially, they'll be loyal to you in kind... and maybe wait
    until the end of the project before they bail out altogeer..
    
    And if they all bail out on you leaving you with junior engineers??
    Well, *sigh...
    
    You fall on your blade :*)
    
    Bugsy

    Re: .10
    
    Bugsy, that sounds great!  Can I work for you?  I'd love to have
    a system at home with a spare phone line, 9 month reviews (instead
    of 15), stock options, etc.  All I have to do is get pregnant,
    eh?  Hmm....
    
    I don't know how serious you were, but actions like that would likely
    cause a mutiny among your other workers!  It's a problem, I know...
    
    Actually, something like this DID happen in our group - I believe
    that 2/3 of the VAX C project had babies due within a month of each
    other.  We coped, though.  Our group has had many pregnancies, but,
    to the best of my recollection, in nine years we've never had a
    woman resign after having the baby.  But our group manager can't
    complain - she's a mother too! (And I don't mean that in the
    pejorative sense, either, smart aleck! :-))
    
    					Steve

    RE: terminals at home
    
    A large number of us need to be at large instruments, not computers,
    which don't work over phone lines... imagine installing a TEM, SEM,
    or acoustic microscope at my home :(
    
    you could have someone like me doing other work (writing up other
    people's data), but the option of having me work from home doesn't
    work very well at all.
    
    Lee

    one manager i knew dealt with maternity leaves by arranging for
    her employees to return to work part-time. digital is not very 
    supportive of part-timers, so making these arrangements took quite 
    a bit of effort. she found that with this option, they were much 
    more inclined to return to work at the end of their leave, and 
    that they were more loyal employees than others who worked for her.  

    RE: .8 

>    Seems to me if someone was motivated enough to be at such
>    an important position, they'd plan their pregnancy carefully. At
>    least, I would.

    Pregnancy isn't always something you can plan.  You can get pregnant
    when you don't expect to, and for some people who are trying, you get
    pregnant whenever you can (don't care when after much trying).  

    Even when you do find out that you are pregnant, I wouldn't advise
    letting people know immediately for a couple reasons.  First, if you
    have a miscarriage, it is usually easier if you hadn't told a lot of
    people. Second, I wouldn't want to jeopardize any promotions.  I read
    of one woman who was concerned that if her boss knew that she was
    pregnant, she wouldn't get the promotion because she would have to take
    a leave for the birth, and there's still people who think you will quit
    after childbirth no matter what you tell them. 

    RE: others

    As to women lieing about whether they will return or not, they are
    forced to by the system.  If you indicate that you won't be coming
    back, you don't get your maternity leave.  This perpetuates the myth
    that women will quit even if they say they won't.  What they should do
    is to guarantee the maternity leave, so that women can be honest.  It
    would be better for the women as well as the company.  And even if
    they do decide to leave, it's no different from any other employee
    deciding to leave for whatever reason.  A manager just has to make the
    work environment so good, that people don't want to leave, and try to
    do some cross-training in critical areas. 

    ...Karen

re .14 (Karen)

>    As to women lieing about whether they will return or not, they are
>    forced to by the system.  If you indicate that you won't be coming
>    back, you don't get your maternity leave.  This perpetuates the myth
>    that women will quit even if they say they won't.  What they should do
>    is to guarantee the maternity leave, so that women can be honest.

Do you (and others) think that women who don't expect to return to work
are entitled to maternity leave?  Is this legally the same as the case of
someone who does not expect to return from medical disability being entitled
to disability pay even though they will be physically able to return to work?

This issue of being entitled to the time off with pay is separate from
guaranteeing the time off in order to allow honesty and better planning.

Jill

    Don't look now, but as DEC employees, none of us (at least in the
    US) are entitled to maternity leave.  What we get instead is short-term
    disability leave.  Clearly, you don't get this if you leave the
    company before you are "disabled".
    
    I wish we had real PARENTAL leave.  I wish we had on-premises daycare
    (no, I don't expect DEC to PAY for it - at least, not while a man
    is running this company - I'd be GLAD to pay for it!).  I wish the
    company would cover childcare when an employee is sent off on a
    business trip (after all, they do cover boarding kennels for your
    dog!).  I wish for a lot of things that would make having
    a family life as well as a career easier.  But we don't have these
    things, and given the swing to right of politics in this country,
    we never have them during my lifetime.  So, I don't have children.
    

    
    My suggestion for the base note would be to be happy you were
    informed at such early stages (especially if these are first
    pregnancies, where it's not always easy to "spot" in the first 4-5
    months).  Next, I would go with the temporary employment suggestion
    (sorry, didn't jot down the reply number), and get them (the engineers
    and temps) working together ASAP.
    
    I would also **assume** (until told otherwise) that the engineers
    would be returning to work after their maternity leaves.  (As you can 
    probably tell by now, I'm not a manager, and it's not one of the
    goals I have set for my own career ;-> .) 
        
    One more note.....
    
    I have never had to deal with maternity leave and/or insurance coverage
    for pregnancy, labor, and delivery.  I do, however, have a friend
    who *worked* someplace other than DEC, and she got pregnant, but wasn't
    married at the time.  She had her own insurance thru the company
    she was employed at.  She planned on returning to work after her
    maternity leave, but was informed that her insurance would not have
    been payed if she didn't return to work for at least 2 weeks after
    her maternity leave was up.
    
    Has anyone else ever heard of insurance companies not paying because
    of a no-show after maternity leave?
    
    Dawn

    Parental leave (or short-term disability) is a benefit for employes.
    Therefore it seems that one is entitled to it, if the criteria are met
    (e.g. pregnancy in this case), irrespective of one's desire to return
    to work after the birth.

    Of course, it's like raises and promotions.  I think of them as rewards
    for work done, but I think management looks at them as bribes for
    future good work.  Depends on your point of view.

    					-- hs

    I don't know any women that haven't returned to work after having
    their chid. Maybe since software types can keep in contact over
    the tube it seems more like they haven't left. I know I'd D_I_E
    if deprived of the easynet for more than a week. I'd feel cut off
    from the world. liesl

    All of the women in technical jobs that I know, that have gotten
    pregnant, have returned to work fairly soon after they had their
    children. (Four women, five children [one woman has two children]
    and most returned in around six months. All seem to have supportive
    husbands, and all of the "bosses" involved have been understanding.
    
    Of course, I believe all of the pregnancies were planned, and the
    absences were discussed beforehand so that certainly helps.
    
    Isn't that how things are *supposed* to work? Too bad it doesn't
    happen more often...
    
    	-- Charles