Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    
    
    I'm glad to see somebody's happy about it :-).
    
    I thought these things had died a well-deserved death some 20 years
    ago.  I especially remember frosty knees and how awkward I felt
    in them.  Having to worry about how I sat, remembering not to bend
    over (you used a sort of "bunny dip" to pick things up off the floor).
    
    I prefer "fashion" that enhances my self-image, not restricts movement
    and chaps thighs...
    
    					{cathy}
    

    re 0
    
    Why does that make you happy?  Are you going to be wearing them?
    
    /jag

    Longer skirts hide hairy legs, so MY hemline is staying right where
    it is, thank you.
    
    Lee

    ditto. Thank goodness my mother doesn't buy me my clothes anymore.
    	Mez

    Is the rumor that the mini will "take over", or will a wide variety
    of hem lengths continue to be worn and continue to be available
    in stores?
    
    I did mini-skirts from 1967-1971, and have no desire to repeat the
    experience!

    When I think back I cannot believe how short my skirts were during
    junior high and high school!
    
    					Karen.

    I wasn't aware that they went out.  I was out one cold night this
    past winter and I saw several woman wearing them.  Too nippy for
    me.  But I do wear them, especially in the summer when I'm going
    out.  Never to work, its not the right place.  I also wear long
    skirts too.  There is also mini and there is mini...  I still like
    to leave some imagination to the mind.
    
    Jude \___^.
         /\ /\

    As a male who reached puberty in the 60's, with tastes canalized
    in the mini era, i can only say *AMEN* to .0. Long poorly
    fitting clothes, cowboy boots and jeans (ugh) have made for a dull
    twenty years. Who knows, I might even open my eyes again :-)

    Gee, maybe I'll start wearing skirts again!!!!
    
    --bonnie
    
    

    re:  .0, .8
    
    I bet you guys will hang around under the stairwells too.!!
    (Like the guys in my high school.)
    
    Never in a million years will we be dictated to as we were during
    the 60's.  Skirt lengths will vary - each to her own taste and figure.
    I specifically remember our high school code saying that the skirt
    was too short if it didn't touch the floor if the person wearing
    it was kneeling.  Boys also had to wear t-shirts... explain that
    - boys covered, girls uncovered... a little bit of a double standard?
    
    But I think we all looked better then than a lot of the kids look
    now!  Yuk!!
    
    

    When I was 20 years old in 1970 every dress and skirt in my wardrobe
    was a mini-skirt.  I wore them to work everyday in an office that
    didn't allow slacks or pantsuits!  I felt comfortable in them back
    then when I was 20 and looked about 17, but I have no desire to
    repeat the performance.
    
    I think people should wear whatever they feel like wearing and not
    what somebody writes in the paper will be the look for fall.
    
    Lorna
    

    I could never give up the comfort of long, full midi skirts.  I
    will be greatly annoyed if they get hard to find in stores and I
    have to start sewing again.  I believe that a lot of us who did
    mini's in the 60's will feel quite free to demand a variety of skirt
    lengths in the stores!

    RE.0  The mini-skirt returned in popularity in '84 or '85.  I didn't
    wear one until I could, which was last year and I LOVE THEM.
    
    I have one in light pink that just does wonders to my appearance:
    my boyfriend loves them and boy do they turn heads.
    
    As for picking things up, I'll put up with that.  I think I will
    buy (or sew) one in red.
    
    I love the leather ones, too....
    
    Cathy (getting wilder and wilder):-)

    I have to admit I shuddered when I saw the fashion update that included
    mini-skirts.  I can't imagine how I will learn to walk in them again;
    I'm using to striding out in my mid-calf skirts and low heels. 
    
    But I agreed with .09 (I think) that women aren't as likely to be
    dictated to by fashion as they were in the 60's.   I didn't buy
    any skinny knit shirts last year when they were in fashion (didn't
    seem like a good investment and looked awful on me), so I don't
    expect to change my wardrobe because Paris thinks I should.
    
    But what happens is that everyone else begins wearing what is declared
    to be fashion, and after a while, it begins to look *normal* and
    okay to the most firm minded of us, and what we have been wearing
    begins to look old and dated, even to us.  So who knows if I really 
    will give in, if only for protective coloration.
    
    

    I think quite a few young women will go along with the "new" fashion,
    but that most of us "older" folks will do whatever we please.  
    I loved mini-skirts when they were popular before, but I was very
    young and had the figure for it.  I do remember that my mother never
    let fashion rule her, and can you imagine your grandmother in a
    mini?!
                      Carol

Gee, seems like every couple years I hear that minis are coming back.  I 
don't think it will ever become the same widespread trend that it was back
in the '60s.

...Karen

    Oh, I've been reading this one with a smile.
    
    I just thank God that this time around, when fashions are again
    leaning in favor towards the young, I'm old enough to chuckle and
    NOT feel threatened....
    
    Ask me if I care that mini skirts are back???
    
    Hee hee... nope!! I'm beyond the grasp of THAT kind of fashion..
    I'm 33 and have *awful* legs... and I'm so PLEASED :*)
    
    bugsy

    I notice that "refusing to be dictated to by fashion" always seems
    to mean refusing to wear anything new and never seems to include
    choosing new styles that are either flattering or fun to wear
    or both. 
    
    I picked up a whole new wardrobe of oversized blouses with padded
    shoulders (well, three, but that's a wardrobe for me) and a big
    gold silk jacket that looks like something a rock singer would wear--
    I love it.  I wear them with my four-year-old jeans. 
    
    I'll continue to choose what I like, whether it's fashionable or
    not. I happen to like miniskirts, so I'll probably buy a couple
    for the summer (freezing to death in them? Why wear them in the
    winter????).  I'm leaning to red leather.
    
    I never did like midis. They make my calves look a mile wide and
    they get caught in car doors. So I don't wear them. I know women
    who look great in midis. They should wear them. What's the big deal?

    --bonnie
    

    Bonnie, glad to see that you are so enthusiastic about this topic.
    I remember the time when I lived at home, I had so much money, I
    bought everything and I was always "in style".  Now that I live
    on my own and the money isn't so free, I have to be "shop conscious"
    and buy what looks good and is reasonbly priced.
    
    I really like the skirts and because they don't require much material,
    they are fairly simple to sew and cheap too.  So, I will have to
    take some serious time and make a couple for the summer.
    
    I too wouldn't wear 'em in the winter.  I think a cotton mini with
    a shortsleeve shirt with ankle socks and aerobic shoes is one of
    my most comfortable outfits.  
    
    Too bad we can't wear anything like that at work.
    
    Heres to tanned legs and short short skirts.
    
    Cathy :-)

     So the mini is coming back. I just wonder what length they are calling
     a "mini" this time.
     
     I well remember visiting New York in '69 when the mini was *very* popular
     in europe, and being told by my host that "everybody [all the women]
     in NY are wearing them" and being bemused as during my entire stay
     I never saw a single woman wearing what my european eyes thought of
     as a mini-skirt. I did however see a lot of skirts a few inches above
     the knee line.
     
     /. Ian .\
     
     PS a true mini skirt is approximately the same length as a tennis dress.
     
     :-)

    I remember the short short mini skirts being referred to as
    "micro-mini's".  Otherwise, a mini was a skirt above the knee.
    Most of mine showed about 6 or 7 inches above the knee.
    
    For the really short ones, there was matching bloomers/underwear.
    Anyone remember?  :-)
                               Carol

    I don't think anyone should assume that just because a person doesn't
    care to adopt one certain style of "new fashion" that that means
    they don't like *any* of the new styles!  I happen to love my Guess
    jeans and they haven't been around that long.
    
    You "younger" women must remember that some of us, such as myself,
    wore minis for literally years!  I wore them from the age of 17
    to 22!  To me they are *not* new!  They are still *old*!  They are
    what I was wearing 17 to 20 years ago.  It's like going back in
    time to me, not ahead.  Geez, can't wait till you start calling
    hip hugging, bell-bottomed jeans with tie-die t-shirts "new"!!
    
    Lorna
    

There's a difference between wearing what fashion dictates whether you like it
or not and wearing what's in style because you like it, no matter what it is.

I have recently reached my goal weight, and I am not going to hide all this work
with oversized blouses and sweaters!

On the other hand, I've always been heavier in the legs.  I remember back in
6th grade or so, probably in the '69 mini craze, when I wore a new miniskirt to
school.  One of my "friends" on the bus asked me if my legs were so heavy
because I wore skirts in the winter.  Thank you very much.

So, I'll have to check out these new miniskirts and see how they look/feel on
me.  But since I'm so short, they'll probably come down to my knees or close
to them anyway. :-)

And, for the record, my grandmother's legs are much sexier than mine, though
I kind of doubt she'd wear a miniskirt.  My mother's, too.  Too bad I take
after my father...

Jill

    But Lorna...I _still_ wear hiphugging bellbottoms and tie-dyed tshirts
    ;-) ;-) and I still go to Grateful Dead concerts, and listen to
    Joni and Bob and...war is still a shabby thing.  Us old hippies
    are still hangin' on.
    
    Give peace a chance,
    Rita
    

    re .24
    But, Rita, YOU look cute in micro-minis!
    Wanna know what I look like in them, at my height??  <bleah....!>
    Of course, tall-girl stores do not usually carry the latest fashion
    crazes anyhow - specially-made clothes in oddball sizes are
    sufficiently expensive that most of those of us who wear them never
    buy anything we think is a fad; it's not worth it at the prices
    we have to pay (yes, I used to sew all my own clothes - no time
    these days!).
    
    Of course, most of you have never, ever seen me in a skirt anyhow,
    unless it is a (floor-length, full-circle) folk dancing costume!
    
    I'll stick to wearing slacks to work, and mid-length skirts when
    protocol requires.
    
    /Charlotte

    I agree with whoever said minis are old. I remember in high school
    there were major argumants over just how short a skirt could be
    and stay legal. I also remember (blush) how short I wore skirts
    back then. Not for me any more that was pounds ago. 
    
    I also remember that skirt lengths were supposed to be stock market
    indicators. Not sure how that all works but with the sixties styles
    comming back can ratted hair and bellbottoms be far behind? 
    
    In some magazine (psych today or some such) I read that people identify
    for life with the styles and opinions that were popular in their 20's.
    Watch out world. Us old hippys are now the technocrats and we won't
    support war in Nicaragusa any more than we did in Viet Nam. liesl
    

    Re .24, Rita, well, last week I wore my Guess jeans to a Billy Idol
    concert and had a wonderful time :-).  But, I agree war is still
    shabby (and I saw Bob Dylan last summer Great Woods - cool lookin'
    dude for somebody in his 40's.)
    
    Lorna
    

    Bob Dylan will be a cool lookin due no matter his age -
    
    an 'un reconstructed late 60's hold over'
    

    and who likes "lay lady lay"?
    
    Bonnie

    
       I say "to each their own".  If you like them, wear them, if not
    don't worry about it.  I'll keep looking at women no matter what
    they wear.  I'm not dead yet.
    
                                            Mark

    re: .30
    
    Right on! And that's how I feel about wearing clothes. I don't have
    long legs or height, but just because I won't look like someone from
    the pages of Vogue won't stop me from wearing a miniskirt if I feel
    good in it. 
    
    I told my brother (two years younger than me) about this discussion,
    and he had a good laugh about it because except for the people who
    feel it's old-hat, the rest sounds just exactly like the arguments
    we went through about whether miniskirts should be allowed in high
    school and how mini is mini.  He said it made him feel young again.
    
    Hey, Lorna -- maybe we should take your Guess Jeans and my miniskirt
    to the next Billy Idol concert and see if we can get in the front
    row??? :-)  
    
    --bonnie
    

    It's interesting to watch the fashion designers introduce "new"
    ideas every year and then be able to go back into my closet or my
    Mom's closet and pull out that style from the last time it was out!
    
    Mini-skirts....good grief! I wore them for more years than I like to
    remember and blush when I look at pictures from that time, or when I
    come across a skirt in the back of closet (I have shirts that go down
    farther than some of these skirts!) Though I can still remember the
    arguments "No, Mom, it's got to be shorter!" 
    
    I believe (and sincerely hope) that most people no longer have to
    buy what is "in fashion" just because it is in fashion. I certainly
    don't. If a new fashion is something I like, then I buy it, but
    only then.... which means I've had a few lean years in there where
    either I sew what I want or keep wearing the old stuff!
    
    You guys might like to look at mini's, but they are a pain to wear!
    You have to be careful of everything you do (walk, sit, stoop,
    lean....ugh, NOT ME!!)! Summer heat might be the only justifiable
    reason for wearing them (unless you like them - then, go for it!)
    If you men like them so much, how come you don't wear kilts?
    
    Oh well..... to each his/her own!
    
    janet b. (a mostly out-of-current-style dresser)    

    I have always been off the fashion trend, I have been wearing mini's
    for years, my mom wouldn't allow me to wear them when growing up,
    even in the army, I always hemmed my "nancy nurse" uniforms higher
    the regulations.  I wear what ever I please, but when everyone starts
    catching up to me, depending on the item, I change again.  I still
    love wearing antique clothes, and have made quite a few copies.
    I design sweaters, and have been wearing some really unique ones
    for years also.  I agree with ya'll, what ever feels good to wear,
    wear it....  As for my mini's, I'll never give em up.....
    
    vivian

    re .32
    If I wore my kilt, people would laugh at me.  In most cases, if
    a woman wears a mini-skirt, she won't get laughed at, maybe stared
    at but not laughed at.  But, then, I don't wear spiked hair either.
    If I wasn't the only bloke in Colorado wearing a kilt, I might wear
    mine.
    
    The way I see the issue is that if a woman feels comfortable with
    a new fashion then she has every right to it.  If she doesn't feel
    comfortable then she doesn't have to partake.  There may be pressure
    on shoolgirls but not on adults.  My wife wore a white mini-skirt
    at our wedding.  She wouldn't wear one now.  She wore a mini-dress
    to a friends wedding.  I had to hang up her jacket because when
    she raised her arms you could almost see her belly button.  Its
    been hanging in the closet for 22 years and I won't let her get
    rid of it.
    
    I'm all for them.  I may well be a dirty old man, but I like to
    see mini-skirts.  I also like bikinis and my wife *does* wear one.
    Of course, I have to wear one in return. ;-)
    
    Reading through these replies, I think that this topic has the largest
    ratio of smiley faces/reply of any other topic. :-)
    
    Spence

                   
    Mini's are great for the youngsters who really believe they are
    the *newest* style. During the 60's the shorter the skirts, the
    more we felt in control of our own lifestyles.  I once was sent
    home from school because I had the Nerve to wear a Mini skirt. Of
    course my skirt was about an inch above my knee, and the principals
    was around her ankle!! So it was just a Sign- O- the Times!!!!
    
    Just thinking of the trouble it was to keep your legs closed all
    the time, and bending over was cause for a car accident!!! No
    I enjoyed the 60's clothing when they really made a statement.
    Now they just make me laugh!!!!!
    
                         
    
    >re:288.32
    
    And By the way, the 60's clothing is on the way back in all fashions..
    
    Recently came back from a visit to San Diego.  The biggest *fad*
    seems to be the bleached out bluejeans.  Naturally they cost 40+
    but I can remember using Clorox and  bleaching the same designs in my 
    wranglers jeans in the bathtub at my mothers house. 
    
    If the clothing is coming back theres hope for the sentiment to
    return as well.
    
    J.

    
    
    How many women will be wearing minis to work? Or do you think they
    will mostly keep them for after work?
    
    I think that we have just gotten out of those awful binding suits
    into some nice dresses & more causual suits, why go to the other
    extreme.  Also, I would definitely think 2ce in wearing a mini if
    I wanted to have a "professional" appearance at work.  (I guess
    that depends on what your profession is.)

    One particularly disdainful teacher at the high school I attended
    was known for his snide remarks about the skirt lengths worn by
    some of the girls.  One day he asked me if I always wore my skirts
    "mid-crotch" length.  I was horrified!  It was well above my knees,
    but I could still sit and stay decent.
    
    We weren't allowed to wear pant skirts or pant dresses which were
    much more comfortable, but short short skirts were fine.
    

    Back in my high-school days (67-71) the big issue was 
    allowing the girls to wear jeans. Minis were OK but
    Levis were not. I wonder if todays' high-schoolers will
    have to fight to bring back the minis ? 
    
    Re. Kilts  - Robert Heinlein made a good case for them
    in "Time Enough For Love". As the lead charachter says,
    it's a great way to conceal a gun :-)

    
    re.:  .38
    
    >  I wonder if todays' high-schoolers will have to fight to bring
       back the minis ? 
    
    
    	No fighting for it here in the Atlanta area..  They are already
    very popular with high-schoolers....
    
    	And while visiting California I happened to pass a Catholic
    school while the students were outside and was amazed at the length
    of the girls uniform skirts...  they were close to mini-skirt length!
    
    	Seems they are back -- at least for the teen-agers. 
    
    		Myra
    

    Re. mini-skirts, I've never forgotten a comment made to me by a
    co-worker back in 1970 when I worked in a large insurance company
    in an office pool of paper pushers.  The woman who sat opposite
    to me commented on the fact that the guy in back of me looked up
    everytime I leaned forward so he could get a look at my ass.  I
    wore mini skirts everyday.  She went on to say, "And boy has he
    gotten a good look at your ass all year!"  I was quite embarrassed
    since it hadn't occurred to me that everytime I leaned forward the
    man sitting behind me could see my entire rear end!
    
    Lorna
    

    Wouaouh !! Les gros jambons gras et les genoux osseux vont a nouveau
    abonder dans les rues !
    
    Ooo joie intense ! Toute la ville saura que j'ai des pattes de heron
    !!
    
    
    Zoziau

re: .41
    
Wow !!  Fat legs and bony knees will again become abundant in the streets.

    
What a thrill !  The whole town will know that I have the legs of a heron
!!

Z. 

    I have a few above the knee dresses that I wear to work and get a lot of
    compliments from both men and women.
    
    The mini skirt -- I'll be pulling mine out of storage!!!!!
    (hope I can fit them by summer) 

	Geez!  Every year it's something new!  Now I've gotta go and 
    shorten my entire wardrobe of kilts!

							-dav�

    I don't mind the mini coming back in style, as long as it's not
    the only style you'll be able to find in the stores.  I want to
    keep wearing my mid-calf skirts for work and other appropriate
    occasions and wear minis instead of shorts in the summer (I've had
    one I love for about four years).  Much cooler and no more exposed.
    

    RE: .44  "Donal' whuurrrs yer troosers"
    
    I'd like to have my kilt altered.  The length's OK but I don't have
    the same waist that I had when I was 16.
    

    I hear a lot of women saying that they won't wear one because of
    their figures.  I don't have that problem, but I still wouldn't
    wear them on a regular basis.  I think women who wear them look
    like little girls or look like they're trying to look like little
    girls.
    
    But, I think that just for fun maybe once or twice a year I'd wear one.
    
    Never at work.
    
    	-Ellen

    I used to wear them -- but not to work.  And I still have the
    legs for them (although the hips have, ah, become more generous).
    My hope for miniskirts is that they'll pull up other skirt lengths
    to around the knee.  Until then I'll keep sewing with this
    eight-gore pattern I have.
    
    And if you want to view my "silken thighs" (or whatever the pink
    and foils novels are calling them this year), you'll have to wait
    for me to visit a swimming pool or j'acuserie, or make private
    arrangements ;-).
    
    							Ann B.

    re .27, (just for the record :-) ), my figure isn't the reason I
    won't wear mini-skirts either.  Mostly, I just don't feel like it.
     I already wore them for 5 years once.
    
    Lorna
    

    I meant re .47, Ellen's note.  Sorry.
    
    

    A few earlier replies asked "what length is mini?" (including one of
    mine).
    
    In the early 70s I taught for a while in a single sex (girls') high
    school in England. The school rule defined a legal skirt or dress as
    one with the hem within 3" of the mid-knee when standing normally. A
    mini was between 3" and 9" above the knee, and micro more than 9" above,
    a midi between 3" and 9" below and a maxi more than 9" below.
    
    Offenders wearing a mini or midi got 3 strokes of the cane on their
    bare sit-upons and those wearing a micro or maxi got 6 (for a first 
    offense).
    
    Whilst the extremes were rare I, and my fellow teachers, often had to
    send girls to the headmistress for wearing minis (we were all issued
    with a measuring gauge incidentally, rather like the chalking devices
    used by seamstresses/tailors to mark hem lengths - if you could puff
    chalk on the girl's leg with the gauge it was illegally short...)
    
    /. Ian .\

    (That school's dress regulations were sufficiently bizarre in some respects
    for me to remember them still after all these years, but perhaps that
    is a subject for another note... :-)

    When I was in high school (before they changed the dress code so
    I could wear slacks to it!), the rule was that your dress had to
    touch the floor when you were kneeling down - no longer and no shorter.
    So granny dresses (remember them??) were also no good, along with
    minis.  We also had to wear stockings.  Bleah.  Boys could not wear
    jeans but had no other restrictions.  Shirts and shoes were required
    by health code in the cafeteria.
    
    Silly, wasn't it?

    Re .51, those male school teachers sure must have had fun with those
    tape measures.
    
    Lorna
    

.53�                         -< You've got to be kidding >-

.53�    Re .51, those male school teachers sure must have had fun with those
.53�    tape measures.
    
	No Lorna, I'm not kidding. The purpose of using a chalk gauge rather
        than a tape measure was to prevent any physical contact between
        the (male or female) teacher and the pupil. This was a very proper
        (and very expensive) girls' Public School. 
        
        I'm not sure who was more embarrassed by this: the pupils or the
        staff, but the Principal caught a girl leaving a lesson with an
        obviously short skirt one day and proceeded at the next staff meeting
        to give a very explosive lecture on her views on what was proper
        for "her young ladies" to wear. - after that we applied the rules.
                                                   
        It was unusual for a lesson teacher to be in this situation, since it 
        was the duty of the house mistresses to do a dress check on the girls 
        before they went to morning prayers. It required the girl to raise the 
        hem (usually by merely pulling the skirt up at the waist) after that 
        to cause an offense. This was considered particularly heinous, since 
        it not only violated the dress code but involved deceipt. Girls caught
        before assembly were usually just sent back to the dorm to change
        into something "suitable", and given an order mark for the offense.
        (A more extensive dress check was performed by the gym mistress
        who would check the changing rooms for illegal underwear... clearly
        the male staff were not in any position to check on this part of
        the uniform code).
                     
        /. Ian .\

    "illegal underwear"!?! why on earth would anyone care? Had the
    girls no privacy at all? What would consititue "illegal" if it is
    not too indelicate to describe? :-)
    Bonnie J

    I don't think its indelicate but if you do please use moderator privilege
    to deleat it:
    
    Girls 15 and under wore:
    
    	Winter: Grey skirt, white shirt, school tie, grey cardigan trimmed
    in "house colours", black buckle shoes, white knee socks trimmed in
    house colours, white gym knickers (the sort of things track athletes
    wear) trimmed in house colours, white vest trimmed in house colours
    and pant liners in white (basically normal bikini underwear).
    
    	Summer: Pink and white "candy-stripe" dress. Footwear and underwear
    as above. Vest was optional.
    
    Girls 16 and over wore:
    
    	Winter: Black Skirt, Whites shirt, school tie, long-sleeved pullover
    trimmed in house colours, black "court shoes" with 2" heels, nylon
    stockings with a seam, White Gym knickers edged with house colours,
    white "sports style" bra, white pant liners. Hose was held up either
    with a white suspender belt (=American garter belt), or elastic garters
    in house colours. Bra optional in A or B cup sizes but mandatory for
    larger sizes.
    
    	Summer: Grey dress. Footwear and underwear as above.
                 
    All girls wore a school hat (straw boater in summer, felt hat in winter)
    when walking out. A Dark grey gaberdeen raincoat was permitted for
    inclement weather. Whits gloves were worn for meals, black gloves when
    walking out, except gloves were optional in Summer. In Summer a black
    blazer could be substituted for a coat.
                        
        The main "illegal underwear" problems were girls waring bras before
    age 16, wearing bras with decoration on them (eg lace trim) and wearing
    bikini pants rather than the cotton gym knickers. Some girls even wore
    colored bra/pants sets (shock horror).
    
    /. Ian .\

    re -1:
    
    My God, was nothing private?  Girls were not even *free* to choose
    their own *underwear*?  Can I dare ask how anyone could know whether
    bras had lace or not on them?
    
    	-Ellen

    and what happened if a girl developed into a C or D cup before
    she turned 16?

    I BET SHE WAS SUSPENDED SOMEHOW :-)

    Friends of mine were on sabbatical in England a few years ago, and
    reported that their two adolescent daughters were at first horrified
    to find out that they had to wear a white blouse and navy blue wool
    skirt or navy blue wool slacks every day.  The girls later came to 
    appreciate the dress code, and commented that they had previously spent an
    awful lot of time dressing and shopping for school.
    
    Of course, they made up for it on the weekends and totally "punked
    out"!

    How did they know that bras had lace on them? well either the gym mistress
    checking changing room lockers, or the school's Matron checking bedside
    lockers would find the offending garments. (No constitutional freedom
    from illegal search and seizure here :-)
    
    What if they grew into a size C or D early? the rules allowed for medical
    exceptions: I recall one 14 year old who had a pink slip to allow her
    to wear a bra because she was a 38D. I also know she was so embarrassed
    she didn't present it to her House Mistress for over a month.
    
    Re dress codes in general: I later worked in a co-educational state
    run school that proposed eliminating their (somewhat freer) dress
    regulations - the result was a massive no-vote from both the girls and
    the parents (since without a dress code they would have to be fashionable
    and also have multiple changes of outfit.) Also remember that a dress
    code benefits poorer famillies since it is virtually impossible to tell
    when a uniform is a hand-me-down from elder sister.
    
    /. Ian .\

    re .60: Gee, I don't think I'd mind uniforms much if slacks were
    an option - they weren't during my school years, and we didn't even
    have uniforms.
    
    Bet it's tough keeping lint and cat fur off of the navy-blue wool,
    though. Must encourage the younglings to dash straight to school
    as soon as they're dressed. Clever people, those British!
    
    -b

    What if the student is allergic to wool?
    
                    Carol

    sigh
    

    
    
    
    
    
    
                  What kind of underwear did the boys wear?
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    
�                  What kind of underwear did the boys wear?
    
 	You aren't listening Dennis: this was a Girl's school. There were
        no boys.
        
        /. Ian .\   
    
    
    
    
    

    I'm glad I didn't go to a school with uniforms and with people checking
    my underwear for compliance....ugh.   It was bad enough kneeling
    on the floor to see if my skirt was right, and having to wear stockings.
    
    On the other hand, both my mother and I HATED the silly phys. ed.
    outfits I had to wear in high school.  The boys got to wear T-shirts
    (I still have my brother's - it's great for mowing the lawn!) and
    running shorts.  We had cotton dresses with bloomers to go under
    them.  These things had to be washed, sprinkled down, and ironed
    for each class -- 3 times a week!  My brother's gym suit was fine
    right out of the dryer, and I got so that I really resented the
    time it took to press my silly wrinkly-cotton-broadcloth one so
    that I wouldn't get in trouble.  Bleah.
    
    I wonder what phys. ed. classes wear now?  I bet whatever it is,
    it is wash-and-wear!          

    Re Phys. Ed. classes. As of 5 years ago, when I quit teaching, we
    had ordered t-shirts and shorts - unisex. Hand-me-down-able,
    comfortable, bright, in school colors. Nice. Yes, Much much better
    than the bloomers and skirts.
    
    RE: uniforms in general. I heard at least a million complaints from
    students about having to wear a uniform to gym class. BUT: look
    at 'em in the hallways!! Same brand of jeans, washed-out to the
    same degree, same type of shirts, same brand of sneakers/running
    shoes (depending on the year), same hairdos, same colors, etc. etc.
    Each indistinguishable from the next/last kid in line.  Sheesh!
    
    Flashback, Ian: *seams* in the stockings! Shades of my youth!
    
    Dawn
    

    
    
    
    
    
    
              Yes I was.  I meant at the co-ed state-run school.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    OK Dennis: at all schools I attended and at the state school at which
    I taught the rules for boys stated "white cotton vest and underpants".
    
    re gym wear: at the state school the gym uniform for boys was white
    running shorts and white plimsolls (=sneakers). For girls the same navy
    blue gym knickers and white vest as for normal day wear could be used
    as gym wear (though a change was encouraged) plus white ankle socks
    and plimsolls.
    
    Incidentally at the private school the girls did gym "a la grecque"
    as it said in the school prospectus... (I invite you to remember what
    you may have heard or read about the dress of athletes in ancient Greece).
    At least that gym uniform didn't cause laundry problems :-)
    
    /. Ian .\
    

        
    
    
    
    
    Oh well, I guess the question would've been more relevant north
    of the border.  :-)
    
    
    
    
    
    

    I saw this in the AP news today: now what would have happened if they
    had worn kilts?

Associated Press Wed  3-JUN-1987 06:52                             Miniskirts

           Male Students, Barred From Wearing Shorts, Don Miniskirts
    
   EAST  PROVIDENCE,  R.I.    (AP)  -  A  group  of male high school students 
   including two football players has taken to wearing miniskirts  to  school 
   because the school's dress code forbids shorts.

   "Everybody wants to wear shorts.  It's wicked hot in school," said Charlie 
   Hankinson, a defensive end for the East Providence  High  School  football 
   team who squeezed into one of his sister's skirts Tuesday.

   "They  (girls)  get  to wear miniskirts and the only shorts we get to wear 
   are jams," Hankinson said. "I don't think it's fair."

   Jams are the popular, brightly-colored knee-length shorts  now  in  vogue. 
   Hankinson said they look cooler than they feel.

   "There's  no  rule  saying we can't wear skirts," said Tom Turner, another 
   skirt-wearing student, who added that  the  dress  code  "promotes  sexual 
   discrimination."

   School  administrators  nabbed  the  three students with skirts soon after 
   they entered the school Tuesday and forced them to change into long pants.

   None of the three were  punished,  but  Hankinson  said  Princpial  Arthur 
   Elmaysian warned him not to do it again.

   School officials were not available for comment.

   Steven  Brown,  executive  director  of  the Rhode Island affiliate of the 
   American Civil Liberties Union, said the dress code may be illegal and  is 
   certainly misguided.

   "One  would  think  that in these hot days, schools would be interested in 
   making kids as comfortable as possible," Brown said.  "If they're sweating 
   to death, it's not going to be easy for them to learn."

   A decision   by   the   state  commissioner  of  education  in  the  1970s 
   "essentially said dress codes are appropriate if they  are  based  on  the 
   health  and safety of students and on preventing disruptions," Brown said. 
   "It's hard to imagine how the wearing of  shorts  meets  either  of  those 
   criteria."

re: boys in skirts

    This happened in my high school (in NY, around 1970), and it seemed to
    have helped -- the dress code died soon after.


    As long as we're talking about clothing...

    I thought about this last night after reading a newspaper column about
    fashion: Someone decides that women's clothing should look different
    this year than last (or this month than last). Pants legs move up and
    down, skirts go up and down down, pads come and go, etc. Is this
    because women really want to keep making these changes, or is someone
    having a great time jerking them around?

    I'd be mighty surprised to open a magazine and see that someone has
    changed men's clothing so that business suits come with mid-calf pants,
    or pearl necklaces, or pockets on the sleeves, or the waist moved up or
    down from where it really is. I don't expect that to ever happen, but
    I'm always surprised by what is "suggested" for women. Why is it
    different?

RE: .73 

>								Is this
>    because women really want to keep making these changes, or is someone
>    having a great time jerking them around?


Do you really need to ask?  If women are brain washed that they need to
be fashionable, and the fashion keeps changing, then someone is going
to make a lot of money.  And by the way, men's fashions change too, just
not as fast.  Remember the really wide ties of the early 70's?

...Karen

> 			 And by the way, men's fashions change too, just
> not as fast.  Remember the really wide ties of the early 70's?

    My brother is in the fashion industry, and he brought up a point like
    this once.  I argued that the changes in men clothing are much subtler,
    not just slower. Given the variety and rate of change that women are
    subjected to, the change in men's clothing is almost nil.  You could
    stand a few yards away from a man, and not notice many of the little
    changes that differentiate this year's model from last year's.

    Re. 72  My boyfriend's father is a teacher in the Salem School system
    and he told me that the "girls" aren't even allowed to wear shorts
    in the hot weather (except for field trips).  The reason, or so
    he says, was that if you allowed "shorts", the girls would wear
    "short shorts" (like the runners wear) and he felt that that was
    too sleezy for 7th and 8th graders.
    
    As for changes in woman's/men's clothing, let it change.  There's
    so many styles to choose from right now, I feel that "anything goes".
    
    
    One thing that really p***ed me off the other night was finding
    a good pair of white high heeled sandals.  Went to five stores
    including Jordan Marsh and Filenes and nothing, nada!  Oh, there
    were beautiful summer pumps but I needed a sandal to wear with a
    sundress.  I said to myself, "these are ALWAYS in style" aren't
    they?  The white shoes they had all looked like moccasins with
    straps, fake turquoise, fringe, metal and fake diamonds.  I didn't
    think these would look good with a sundress (remember those?) so
    I purchased aqua pumps.
                                                          

    As an ex-junior high school teacher (they say the tic'll go away
    in a few years) I'll vouch for the fact that extreme styles of dress
    can put the darlings right into orbit. (Not to mention the phase
    of the moon, the time of day, a sneeze, or certain words)
    
    (As a physical education teacher, I had to be careful to say "Everyone
    should have two volleyballs" cuz if I said "Everyone should have
    two balls...."well, you can guess...)
    
    Dawn
    

    This note has been quiet so here's my thought.
    
    I love my mini's.  I am 19 so I just started wearing them a couple
    years ago.  At first I had bought the ones with the real wide skirt,
    lots of material.  Well when a gust of wind came along....let's
    just say that if I didn't hold the skirt down, everyone got a free
    show.  So now I stick to the slim ones.  Fortunately, I am very
    slender and can wear these.  But I also wear the mid-calf skirts
    and the latest ones that come just a few inches above the ankles.
    I do try to stay 'in style' but I don't buy something that doesn't
    look good just because everyone else is wearing it.  If it's
    comfortable, looks good, and is a sensible price, I buy it.  If
    not, well then someone else can have it.
    
    As far as dress codes went at my high school, I'll never forget
    when we got a new principal.  Word had it that he wanted to enforce
    a dress code.  He was formerly a principal of a private, catholic,
    co-ed high school which of course had a dress code.  Well, he thought
    that public school should be no different.  He approached the school
    board with a dress code something like this:
    
    	(1) no mini-skirts or shorts (shorts weren't allowed anyway)
    	(2) no jeans
    	(3) all shirts/blouses must have a collar  ie. no concerts shirts
    	 	or T-shirts, etc.
    	(4) no sneakers except for gym class.
    
    	Can you believe it??  That would wipe out 98% of the school.
     Needless to say, it didn't pass.  But even just the thought of
    no jeans, scared us to death!!
    
    	Anyway, as long as someone is comfortable in what they're wearing,
    I say go for it!!
    
    	But I don't wear mini's to work.
    
    		JJ
    

    re .78 the proposed dress code....
    
    As a parent I would have strongly opposed such a code....I wouldn't
    have been able to afford to re outfit  all my kids with new pants
    and shoes! 

    You surpirse me (a little) - during my brief teaching career the school
    district I was working in announced they were going to drop their dress
    code: the complaint from both parents and female pupils was overwhelming.
    
    They universally complained of the cost of buying fashionable clothes
    so the girls could wear something different every day...
    
    As for jeans - they are in effect a uniform. They are also functional,
    long wearing, and grotesquely ugly! (I wear jeans myself - but then
    I didn't own a pair until I moved to America a couple of years back...)
    
    /. Ian .\

    
    re:  .79
    
    	Exactly.  Once parents got wind of what he wanted, they complained
    to the members of the school board so when the meeting was arranged
    to discuss the matter, they dismissed the idea.
    
    	Most of the school practically lived in jeans and sneakers.
    It all was a little ridiculous.
    
    			JJ