Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    Martin,  I think that was perfectly o.k.
    

    I agree.  Three women facing one man (particularly someone *jogging*
    -- can a health nut [smile] be a rapist, too?  Probably not) are
    not going to be very afraid.
    
    That's one of the reasons we like to travel in bunches.
    
    It makes us (me) feel sooo much better to be reminded that there
    are good, friendly people out there in the world.  If you don't
    drool, or leer, then you are less likely to scare me.
    
    Lee

    Besides Martin - you look reliable :-)

	Another agreement that you already did the right thing -
	especially by simply speaking THEN MOVING ON - staying in front 
	of them, not running along side or behind them.  It's far more
	worrying to women when it starts to feel like you're being 
	followed....

		-hh

    re .2:
    
    I understood Martin to have said that each of the three women were
    alone.                             
    
    re .0:
    
    I have often wondered when walking, as I overtake a lone woman, if
    wild thoughts are racing through her head, and what I can do to
    "radiate harmlessness".   
    
    I've come to the conclusion that there isn't anything I can do.
    Whatever I do could create anxiety. 
    
    sigh,
                                                   
                  /
                 (  ___
                  ) ///
                 /
    

    re .5
    I think you can "radiate harmlessness" by simply thinking that way.
    It carries over into your body language and pheromones or what ever
    (maybe even esp) and people do pick up on it.

    re base note:
    
    I would not have felt anything wrong had I been one of the women
    you said hello to.  (I've been in such situation).  I feel good at
    friendly encounters such as this.
    
    	-Ellen

Talked this over with a good friend who jogs the Charles a lot.  She
disagreed, suggesting that I should have said "excuse me" or something
else innocuous.  She did approve of my speeding up so as to pass the
women quickly (they *were* all alone), even though I was running at
about the same pace.  (I can't wait for summer and Fresh Pond, where
most people know -- at least by sight -- the other runners.)

M.

    re -1:
    
    Didn't know "good evening" *wasn't* innocuous!  Go with your instincts
    in this case, Martin.
    
    	-Ellen

    Cute but there is some truth to displaying something like "Innocuous
    Runner" though I wouldn't go that far!
    
    If you're a stranger, then displaying something extremely descriptive, 
    (like your face for one, but clothing or something you carry works
    too), helps me feel safe about a man.  A stranger planning an attack
    usually also plans to be hard to identify.  This type of behavior is
    what started the handshake.  Two men would meet and graps each others'
    right hands to display that they were not carrying a weapon!  I
    guess there weren't too many left-handed people then! :-)
    
    But a man jogging past me with a full face and/or something else
    very descriptive can either say "Good Evening" or just continue
    on and I would be more likely to notice and then let it pass rather
    than notice, go an alert, check my surroundings and keep watch.
    
    Personally, I prefer no comments at all from strange men, but would
    rather they simply ignore me and allow me to ignore them.
    
    Of course with 'date rape' this is useless.  You have PLENTY of
    discriptive info about the guy but from some part of his warped
    thinking, he just doesn't think you'll ever use it against him.
    

The Charles river is reasonably well-lit and fairly well-populated with
runners.  On a cold Monday evening with a bitter wind howling, I passed
about 2-3 people running in my direction, and about 5-7 in the other
direction.  Two women were jogging together, one was a mixed couple,
there were two guys together, and the rest were singles.

At Fresh Pond in the summer, there's a large gang that shows up around
5 pm.  A few years ago, one of the women mentioned that she couldn't
get there early, and would we mind running at 7.  So we all did.
If you're in the neighbourhood, feel free to drop by.

    When I used to walk/bike at Fresh Pond, and there weren't too many
    people around, I appreciated it when lone men passed me as far away
    from me as possible.  If they approached and speeded up, and widened
    the "horizontal distance" between us, it helped create a feeling
    of space and safety.

    I prefer to jog after work.  I just can't get out of bed THAT
    early in the morning.  I live in a quiet residential neighborhood.
    So after work I put on my reflective vest and take to the streets.
      But if its dark out and I see someone else jogging I will cross
    the street.  I also jog against traffic.  It would be easy for some
    one driving the same direction to pull up aside of me.  I am always
    very cautious and have a strategy that I would use if someone tried
    to attack.
    It is ironic that the times I have been harassed have been when
    I jogged a different route or managed to crawl out of bed in the early
    morning hours.  
    I don't want to give up jogging.  Its helped me lose 15 pounds and
    I feel alot better.
    But I think its very unfortunate that I have to be so cautious and
    so defensive in an activity that should be fun and enjoyable.
    
    -Nancy

�   I also  jog  against traffic.  
    
    You should do that  for  reasons  of  basic  traffic  sense  anyway. 
    Walking, jogging or running with the traffic flow is very dangerous. 
    If you run against the traffic you can see oncoming traffic in  time 
    to  step  onto  the  sidewalk,  or  at  least  out of the way of the 
    oncoming vehicle.
    
    /. Ian .\

    This reply is aimed at trying to help women in uncomfortable situations
    ease their fear.
    
    As a few in 214 pointed out, translating fear to anger can be very
    empowering.  When you can convey with your body language that you
    will brook no nonense from anyone, when you convey that you wish
    to be left in splendid isolation, that you are proud and angry instead
    of afraid, you'll be left alone almost all the time.  This tactic 
    has worked for me 100% of the time.
    
    But what body language is involved?  All I knew was that I tended
    not to be accosted, jeered at or approached.  I didn't have a clue 
    until the following incident.  One day my husband, who was to pick 
    me up on a street corner in Cambridge, saw me, facing away from 
    him as he drove up, and for fun called out, "Hey, baby!"  Even 
    as I recognized his voice my body performed its maneuver.  What 
    he later described I did was:  my shoulders stiffened and squared, 
    my back bacame ramrod straight, my chin lifted and my head snapped 
    decisively away from the sound of his voice.  I read with interest 
    later in an ancient etiquette book that this move is an extreme
    version of what was known as the Cut Direct.  It was actually the 
    "socially correct" way to publicly snub someone you found
    objectionable!
    
    I have been with other women in public and seen what they did if
    we received a catcall or an undesirable approach.  And many of 
    them (not all--some were like me) did the following:  The same 
    stiffening of the shoulders, the same aversion of the head, but 
    with spines suddenly folded, shoulders hunched, eyes focused on 
    the ground.  I noticed too that if I felt a woman companion making 
    this move, that I tended to pivot after my Cut Direct and stare 
    hard at the offenders, as if I was trying to protect her.  ("She 
    may look like fair game, but she's with ME, so back off.")
    
    Maybe old-fashioned etiquette, which included how to handle unpleasant
    situations with power and style, should be resurrected?  [:-)] 
    (Let's see, where's my Emily Post?)
    
    Seriously, this may be a move worth practicing.  The straightening 
    of the spine and lift of the head is everything--it turns what could
    look like a fearful move into something more powerful and decisive.
    You are Someone To Be Reckoned With.
    
    Marcia

    	When I was 17, I went to a "party" that was being given by a
    	male friend of mine.  I went with a very naive female friend
    	and we were one of the first to arrive (it was after an evening
    	football game.)
    
    	As it turned out, the party grew very large, but the rest of the 
    	people at the party were males.  99% of them were males that we did
    	not know.
    
    	We had been standing with the guy who was giving the party,
    	but he became drunk and it became obvious very quickly that we
    	were on our own.
    
    	My friend started to panic as some guys approached us and began
    	saying some rather obscene things (suggesting an alternate turn
    	of events involving us that would surely make the party more
    	interesting in their eyes.)
    
    	My friend was shaking like a leaf, so I stood in front of her
    	and I squared my shoulders and looked the main approacher right
    	dead in the eyes.  I said, "We're leaving now" and I edged my
    	friend to the door (keeping myself between her and the others.)
    
    	I gave those people my worst "death eyes" (as Bob calls them)
    	and when they made some remarks speculating on what the two
    	of us might be like in the party they had in mind, I stopped
    	and told them in my finest controlled angry voice, "You can
    	guess about us all you like, because you're NEVER going to
    	find out."
    
    	We got out the door (with half the party following us), and
    	I said to my friend, "Walk to the car slowly.  Don't run.  We
    	are OK now."
    
    	We made it to the car and locked the doors.  As we drove by
    	the entrance to the house, one of the guys had unzipped his
    	pants and was exposing himself to us.  I turned on my high
    	beams and aimed straight at him (slowly.)  He backed off and
    	we drove off.

    	I'm not sure what would have happened to us if I hadn't taken
    	such a strong posture against them.  We were outnumbered by
    	20 to 1, at least!, and they had turned into a half-drunken mob.
    	As it is, I think we were lucky that posturing got us out of
    	there.
    
    	Some men really hate the fact that many women are prepared to
    	act this way towards men in public.  Some men just don't realize
    	that "death eyes" can sometimes be crucial to our survival.
    
    							Suzanne... :-)

    	RE:  .20
    
    	Bob, the women who give you "death eyes" on the boulevard
    	may have been instructed to do that in a Rape Prevention
    	Seminar.  Walking around with an arrogant/assertive/border-
    	line_hostile attitude is a posturing technique that tells
    	potential rapists that a woman is less-likely to make a
    	fun victim.
    
    	The fact that *YOU* catch the kind of "rays" that don't give
    	you a tan is unfortunate, but it can't be helped.
    
    	Also, those women are not presuming that you are attracted to
    	them.  Rape is not a sexual crime, but a violent one.  That's
    	why you sometimes hear about 80 year old women (in orthopedic
    	shoes and hair nets) that get raped.  It has nothing whatever
    	to do with a woman's attractiveness.
    
    	It's no more fun for women to have to worry about rape than
    	it is for a man to have to be treated as a potential rapist
    	by women that don't even know him.  It's unfortunate all the
    	way around.
    
    	Let's not let ourselves get mad at the wrong people, though.
    	Just as we can't get mad at all men because we have to worry
    	about crimes against women, you should not be mad at us because
    	we have to necessarily treat you like a potential criminal on
    	the boulevard.
    
    	If your son David was offered candy on the street and told the
    	person "NO!" and departed rapidly, how would you feel if the
    	person turned out to be some nice person that you knew?  Wouldn't you
    	still want David to keep saying "NO!" and decide that the nice
    	people that meant him no harm would just have to understand
    	why it is necessary for him to do that.

    							Suzanne... :-)

    	RE:  .22
    
    	Well, Bob, it *is* possible to carry the recommended anti-rape
    	posturing too far...
    
    	Or maybe they just noticed *your* sigh of exasperation as they
    	passed...  
    
    		:-)  :-)
    
    							Suzanne... :-)