Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    It is my feeling that as a woman I am 'worried' about the continum
    and where I am on it.  I suspect that a lot of our attitudes about
    sexual orientation involve denial.  If I stay away from an issue
    than I won't have to think about it.
    
    I should be able to end the reply right there....and our relationships
    with the Lesbian community will improve when we don't have to add....
    
    But I know I am heterosexual.

    re .0 Sorry to be ignorant,   but: Please expand on "denial".
    Can you perhaps hint at what is denied (I can guess but I might
    be wrong). My only understanding is that Denial creates Craving
    so in effect there is no result that wasn't there to begin with.
    Can you correct my view?
    
    SDC.

    From Lavender Jane.
    
    					=maggie
    
    
    
    ================================================================
    re: 185.1   Warning!  This is a long one!

    A different culture...hmmmm.  Well, I may change my answer somewhat if
    other responses remind me of things, but here goes. 

    I don't think that I see heterosexual women as being as different from
    me as men of any sexual preference.  In my way of looking at things,
    the most similar would be another lesbian, then straight women, gay
    men, and straight men.  For me, I don't think I distance myself from
    others so much as they distance themselves from me.  I have many
    straight friends of both sexes, and I enjoy them very much, but each
    time that I come out to someone I run the risk of losing that
    friendship.  My philosophy is that if the friendship is going to be a
    real one, preferably a close one, then I can't be hiding my
    relationship with my spouse.  It is still very painful when someone you
    consider to be your friend decides they can no longer be friends with
    you.  This has happened several times, usually with strong Christians. 

    Of course I was brought up with the same training that we all get from
    society. I had the same ideals that other girls my age had.  I wanted
    to get married and have children.  When I realized at age 18 that I was
    attracted to women, I did not give up my ideals.  I just figured out
    alternate ways to achieve them.  I was "married" to my lover.  We will
    be having children, biologically at first, then possibly through
    adoption of an older child/ren. 

    The things that separate us are little things.  At work when others
    speak of their spouses, I cannot mention mine (at least not like they
    do).  When many of my straight friends go dancing, I stay home rather
    than try to dance with my spouse in a straight environment.  When we
    had our Holy Union, I wanted a shower for the two of us.  Weeks passed
    and it did not look like anyone was going to throw one.  We did end up
    getting one, thrown by a straight friend, but I think it just did not
    cross our friends' minds that we would like the same things that they
    would (like a shower).  It is such a relief to be with gay friends,
    with whom you can discuss common things, such as raising a child who
    understands that he has two parents who love him, but that he may get
    teased by other children or shunned by their parents.  Sometimes these
    things can be discussed with straight friends, but I never know how
    comfortable they are when they are reminded of this difference between
    us.  I wouldn't be surprised if Bonnie Reinke hasn't run across some of
    these problems with her kids, since some of them are of a different
    racial mix than she is. 

    Anyway, that's the closest thing to gay culture that I come in contact
    with that relates to lesbians.  I get some other exposure from gay men
    (gay men and women can be very different), and I used to know some
    women in another state who were as politically correct as they could
    be. 

    Lavender Jane

    Perhaps this is "reverse discrimination" but I have noticed
    that the nicest, most loving and tolerant people I know are
    gay.  Of course, I probably know a lot more gays than I re-
    alize, as I probably don't know they are gay. (did that make
    sense?)  Being firmly heterosexual, a person has to come right
    out and tell me, otherwise I just "assume" that they think
    along the same lines as me.
    
    I recently had a very difficult experience, when a mutual friend
    told myself and another friend about her sexual orientation.  I
    was surprised, but had no negative feelings.  My friend, however,
    was very very negative about the revelation (this friend is a 
    very devout Christian and it was against her moral values).  I
    was stunned by that attitude.  Doesnt' being a Christian mean
    being loving and forgiving?  Needless to say, this experience had
    more of an impact on me, from the standpoint of re-examining my
    "straight" friend, and religeous values, than learning that another
    friend happens to pursue a different life style from my own.
    
    I should add that the 2 persons in question were actually friends
    until this discussion.  And I consider my gay friend one of the
    most loving, gentle, kind and considerate persons on earth.  She
    too is a Christian, and I feel that she lives her religeous values
    to the maximum.  How can one friend turn against another because
    of something so so so...sorry can't think of the word.  Anyway,
    you can probably tell that I still have a lot of negative feelings
    about this Christian attitude.  And still love my other friend every
    bit as much.
     

    re .6
    On reactions to my kids. We seldom get negative reactions because
    we've lived in one town for seven years and people pretty much 
    know who we are. We are most apt to get a reaction to the one
    kid who is low normal/high retarded because if he's bored he'll
    act up in public. 
    Sometimes people ask me why I adopted black kids (usually they say
    'colored') or how "my own" kids feel about the adopted ones. Which
    ususally opens up a chance to share and educate. This isn't really
    the appropriate place for anything more on this subject, but I'd be
    glad to answer by mail or another note.
    
    Bonnie

    re: .8
    
    Hmmmmm.  This is nothing against one or the other, Nancy, but I
    think you've just found out that quite frequently, Christianity
    seems to be one of those great ideas that no one's ever tried.
    
    I had a similar experience not long ago.  I went to visit a high
    school friend I had not seen in a while.  I was very close to this
    person once.  At one point in the weekend he went into this homophobic
    diatribe.  When I asked him why he felt this way, he asked me, "Don't
    you?"
    
    I thought it unwise to tell him at this point that I had gay and
    lesbian friends, so I changed the subject.  Perhaps I should have
    tried to open his mind a little, but I find closed minds a very
    tough crack.
    
    People are imperfect beings.  The veneer can be wear thin some times.
    
    DFW

    First off, I'm never going to take time off again.  I miss too much!
    
    I figured out I was gay about 2 days after I got married to a man.
    I guess before that I was too busy being an engineer to notice.
    I fought that realization for five years, during most of which we
    were both pretty miserable. My mother's reaction when I told her
    was *I new all along* (why she didn't tell me i don't know).  The
    rest of the world objected more to our divorce than me being a
    lesbian. These are strange times.
    
    Being out, and coming out to friends continues to amaze me.  Sure
    there are some people who won't talk to you ever again, but then
    do you really need friends like that.  Maybe it takes a while
    for them to be comfortable with, but most people I know cope rather
    well.  Maybe I flatter myself thinking that how I live should make
    such a big difference to the rest of the world.  An interesting
    side light is the *true confessions* others share. That and the
    *Lesbians I have known* stories.
    
    Mel and I live very openly. I guess we assume the rest of the world
    KNOWS.  It's much healthier than trying to be something you're
    not.  You know some straight people (at least i think they are)
    even let us babysit!  :>)  Maybe we just have it lucky.
    
    One thing more about the standard stereotypes, their kind of like
    a security blanket.  For myself, I had no model of what being a
    lesbian was going to be like.  I kind of hid behind them as a shield
    and tried them on as roles, much like an adolescent does.  It's
    easy to say that you don't need a model, but it can be pretty scary
    when you think you're alone in the world.  My only problem was that
    I couldn't figure out which role was me - much to the confusion
    of my friends.  I ended up just abandoning the whole lot and going
    back to being a slightly bizarre engineer.
    
    maureen