Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    I'm in the same boat.  My mother-in-law, with whom I have a good
    relationship, usually gets called nothing.  We never did address
    the point directly.  My mother is "Mom" to me, "Marguerite" to my
    husband.  He sometimes calls his mother "Imelda", but I feel
    uncomfortable with first names.  I usually call her "Mother" in
    letters, but it feels awkward to say it.  
    
    I'd like some input, too.
    
    Gloria

    One idea is to come up with a compromise name without so much emotional
    content. For example, when my mother remarried, my stepfather announced
    that he didn't want to be called by his first name. We considered
    and rejected "dad", and finally came up with "Pop".  I still would
    have preferred to call him "John" (and now do), but "Pop" was something
    I could live with. One source of compromise names is in other languages
    -- you could ask friends of different nationalities for ideas (from
    my stay in france, I remember "meme" -- pronounced "may-may" as
    a particularly pleasing one).

    My mother (who's apparently itching for us to have kids more than
    we are), facetiously suggested that we have children so that I could
    call the folks "Grandma and Grandpa". I'm not as fond of that one...
    
    Hope this helps 
    eliz

    One suggestion back in note 9.95 or so was that I call them "Mother
    Anne" and "Father George". That's not a bad idea. Unfortuneately,
    I'd have to call them Mother Mary and Father Joseph. I think I'd
    just crack up laughing :-}.
    	Mez
    

I call my parents Mom and Dad.  When I was married, I called Glenn's parents
Mom and Dad, because it just felt right; I felt close enough to them to use
the "reserved words".  I never felt right calling them by their first names;
it just sounded weird to me, calling "parent-types" by their first name.  I
feel more comfortable calling my fiance's mother Mom than Janet (especially
since that's *my* mother's name, too. :-)) and I don't think she'd mind it
at all.  I've never had a reason to use it yet; maybe very soon I will, since
we're going over there for Xmas.

Looks like a lot of people just don't know what to do, though.  Maybe it's
worth talking to the other side...

Jill

    
    When I got married, I called her parents "Mom" and "Dad", the same
    as I called my own parents.  This was not specifically requested
    of me, I just did it, even though at first it felt a little
    uncomfortable (almost as if I was being a traitor to my own natural
    parents).  I still refer to them as that now, even though my divorce
    is almost over (soon, I hope).  Right now, though, I'm not sure
    what I'll call them then since a 17+ yr. habit is hard to break.
    FYI - I have nothing against them, the divorce is purely between
    her and me.
    
    						Joe 

    When I married, I called my in-laws Mom and Dad because I hoped
    that it would help them accept me.  Didn't work and I later went
    back to using their first names.  My husband, who is almost more
    popular with my parents than I am, calls my parents by their first
    names.  At this point I strongly believe in-laws should only be
    called Mom and Dad if they deserve it - which mine never did.
    
    

    IN my first marriage, I never called my ex-es parents anything.
    They weren't very friendly people, to their children or to their
    in-laws, being very old, very conservative French Canadian catholics
    (I didn't exactly fit their mold very well, anyhow).  NO ONE called
    them anything (other than Mr. and Mrs.).
    
    Paul's parents are divorced (for many years).  I call his mother
    "Ellie" (her name is Eleanor), his father "Milt" (Milton), and his
    step-mother Joanne.  But I feel funny about it... I wouldn't feel
    right calling either one of them "Mom" (though I usually call my
    own mother "Mother"), and it would be even worse to call Paul's
    father "Dad" (since my father is dead).  I guess I fell the least
    funny about calling him Milt: he LOOKS like someone who ought to
    be named Milt!  Some people call their in-laws things like "Mother
    Young", but that seems unnatural to my ears.  Other people wait
    and see what their kids call them ("Bubby" for Paul's mother, for
    example, meaning "grandmother").

  
   I found that the best thing to do is ask straight out "How do
   you perfer to be called by me?". This ends the question of "Am I
   saying the right thing?". I was told by one "Call me anything but
   late for dinner!" and DAD sufficed.

    I called them by their first names as soon as I got beyond the
    formalities of Mr & Mrs. I was asked, indirectly, to switch to
    mom and dad, but my reaction was 'I already have a mother & father'.
    I suppose that part of the rejection came from experience with
    Demolay & Rainbow. We were essentially forced to refer to all parents
    as Mother this or Dad that. I tend to think of Mother Theresa as
    a Nun and think Mother Ishcabibel is in the third person.
    
    Bob Mc
    I just noticed the Mother/Dad thing above. Was this latent sexism
    or did they reject the Father Ishcabibel as sounding like a priest?
    

    
    My mom and dad had it a little easier.  As one set of grandparents
    spoke little English, and the other spoke no French, my Dad used
    the French words for my mom's parents, and my mother used 'Mother'
    for Dad's mom.
    
    I realize that isn't a viable alternative in a lot of cases, but
    I thought I'd suggest it...
    
    DFW

    I call my in-laws by their first name.  Reason being they are only
    ten and twelve years older than I am....and also I tried calling
    them Mr & Mrs. but they didn't like that.  I too have trouble with
    the Mom & Dad bit.  If I was closer to them I might but they are
    also very formal people....it does still sound awkward calling them
    by their first names, but I guess it's better than nothing.  
    Wouldn't want to call them "Hey You"......it's funny starting 
    conversations.....you don't call them anything just start talking
    like nothing is wrong.....then they wonder...."Is she talking to
    me"?
    
    bs  

    After 3 yrs into my second marriage, I still call my in-laws Mr.
    and Mrs..  As does my son, their step-grandchild.  We both have
    been more or less told (not directly, just things like, "Go tell
    Mr. B. that dinner is ready") that they prefer for *us* to call
    them this.  My daughter on the other hand, has been told she is
    to call them Ginny and Dave, their first names.  My husband calls
    them Mom and Dad.  Steven is an only child, so obviously the reason
    they let Sarah call them by their first names is because she makes
    up for not having a daughter.  It just is really strange, plus a
    very hurtful thing for my son and myself.
    
    Mary-Lynn

re .12

Mary-Lynn,

Yes, I can see how that would hurt a whole lot!  I think it is awful for any
relatives to want any other family member to call them by their last name.  I
think I'd just avoid using their name to their face, and say "Steven's parents"
whenever possible.  Can you set your daughter up to call them Mr. and Mrs.
just to show them the point? (I don't know how old she is).  What does your
husband think of all this?  (And, how rebellious are you all? (half :-))

Jill

I always called my parents Mommy and Daddy.  Mabel's always called hers Mom and
Dad.  I found that I had no problems using Mom and Dad, because I'd never used
those names before! 

I should mention that in our wedding we asked the minister to publicly ask each
set of parents to "accept {Bob|Mabel} into your family as a {son|daughter}".
Althought they all knew that it would be part of the ceremony, in the event we
got a couple of very touching, totally unrehearsed responses.  It would have
seemed wrong for me to refuse to use Mom and Dad after that!

Bob

Before our marriage, when my husband and I were living together, his
    parents asked me to use their first names, rather than Mr & Mrs.
    Once we were married, I couldn't feel comfortable calling them anything
    other than their first names.  This may be because my own mother
    died when I was young, and I've always called my stepmother by her
    first name.  I love my stepmother dearly, she truly is a second
    mother to me, but if I don't call her Mom, then I certainly can't
    call my mother-in-law Mom either.       
    

I'm really lucky concerning my inlaws.  They are people that, had I not
met Patrick, I could have fallen in love with anyway.  Although I call
my parents Mom and Dad, I can easily call my inlaws Mum and Dad as well.
When Patrick and I first announced (informall) our engagement, Mum Taber
gathered me in her arms, kissed me, and said," If it's okay with you, you
can call me 'Mum'"... which is how she has signed cards and letters to
Patrick since I've known him.

And I call her a variety of petnames as well:  Mommo, Mickey (her nickname),
MM, and such.

We lost Patrick's Dad a few days after our wedding in 1985, so there's a
real sense of lost there right now.

As to WHY I can so easily award these folks my special status, I don't
really know.

My parents are *very* special to me, and have always been Mom and Dad
(give or take a few petnames that drove them to distraught when my brothers
and I were all teenagers).  And it's quite possible that I don't feel that
calling Mum Taber 'Mum' detracts from my own family BECAUSE my parents are
so open and giving and loving themselves.  My mother knows that Mum Taber
is not replacing her, and my own mother once said that she was proud to
have children who could so quickly and easily love people.  

And as for my Dad, just *try* coming between a father and his daughter
sometime!!!

My sense of confusion is why my husband can't accept my parents as freely
as I accepted his.  Patrick just waits until they look at him before he
responds, or it's "Your folks... Your Dad.... Your mother"... Patrick's
mother greeted my parents the same loving way she greeted me, and Patrick
doesn't seem to have the same emotional capabilities with them.

I suspect he might be fighting the wars with my folks that I'm afraid to...

*sigh*

Karen

    I can remember when my brother and his ex-wife first got married,
    and Pat asked my folks if she had to call them Mom and Dad.  Well,
    my mother has always resented the fact that my father's parents
    demanded to be called Mama and Papa (which was what she also called
    her parents), so she told Pat that first names were fine, and you
    could see the relief on Pat's face.  When I got married, my husband
    had already been calling my folks by their first names, so he has
    just continued that, and my mother actually prefers it that way.
    
    As for me, I have always resisted calling my in-laws Mom and Dad
    even though I know that is how they would like to be addressed.
     I call them by their first names, and even address their cards
    and letters by their first names.  Part of it is that I already
    have parents who I am very close to, and part of it is that neither
    of them took a very active parenting role in raising my husband,
    so they don't even seem like his Mom and Dad.   I guess I've always
    kind of resented the way he was cast aside (he was the only one
    of the 5 children to be raised in foster homes), and so I don't
    feel like they deserve to be called Mom and Dad.
    
    Cathy

    I'm not married but I hope to be.  And if Jeanne and Robert Jalbert
    are ever to be my in-laws, I will be calling them Jeanne and Bob.
     That is the most comfortable to me and to them as well.  I already
    love them both and we feel good about the "greetings".  
    
    On my side of the family is the problem.  George asked me what he
    should call my mother and her fiancee.  I said (as a joke) "call
    them Dolores and the other guy".  But seriously, he calls them Dolores
    and Joe.  I call my mother and Joe, Mom and Joe (as do all my sisters).
    As for my natural father, he's Dad to my sisters and me and to George,
    he's Cathy's father.  They met once but I don't see many more
    interactions in the future.
    
    Well, then it's settled.  I shouldn't have a problem later on, right?
    Besides, I like the sound of Cathy and George Jalbert on the envelopes
    and coming out of my priest's mouth.

  I have always started calling people by how they were introduced to
  me.  Later, I would ask how they preferred to be called and respected
  their wishes.  My ex-husband introduced his parents to me by their first
  names, and when I very timidly asked them, they said that was fine,
  so I have always addressed them by their first names.  Another guy that
  I was dating introduced his mother as Mrs. <last name>.  The next time
  I saw her I asked her what she would to be called, and she said, oh,
  everybody calls me by my first name.  
  
  I prefer to call everyone by their first names, but I will respect their
  wishes if they prefer something else.  My kids call me by my first name,
  or they call me mom.  I still call my parents Mom and Dad as they would
  be very offended if I addressed them by their first names.  They sure
  don't understand how I can allow my children to address me by my first
  name!  On a side note, I was raised in a more formal style, everyone was 
  either Mr. and Mrs. <last name> or they were Aunt <firstname> and Uncle 
  <firstname>.  As an adult, I think this is very artificial, so this is not 
  a tradition that I follow.
  
  
  Re: Mary-Lynn and her son:
  
  That hurt a lot just reading it.  It also seems really childish on their
  part.  What does your husband say/feel about it?  I hope something better
  can be worked out for you and your children.  That kind of thing would
  hurt the daughter as well.
  
  
  							Terza
  
  

    
    I spent New Years weekend with my family and my aunt has both
    a son and daughter who are getting married within the year.  I
    overheard her discussing with my mother what her children-in-law
    should call her.  She said she told them they could call her "Mom."
    I laughed at that.  Neither one of them are going to ever call her
    "Mom" (I predict).  She's one of the stuffiest old bitches I know.
    Her attitude is that she is always right and *don't* try to argue
    with her!  (A lot of mothers are this way, my aunt more than most,
    I think).  Then she told my Mom that she somehow couldn't bring
    herself to let them call her "Mary".  All this did was to reinforce
    for the zillionth time my stuffy-old-bitch image of her.  My mother
    (her sister) reminded her that *their* own mother called her
    mother-in-law (their grandmother) "Julia" always.  I hope that
    Aunt Mary thought about that one for a while, but probably not.

    Then I got to analyzing *why* she wouldn't want to be called by
    her first name by her children-in-law.  And the answer is *very*
    simple.  Having someone on familiar terms with her would be, to
    her, a way of giving up some power.  At least that's what she thinks.
    Sure, everyone a generation younger than her calls her Mrs. Zxxx or
    Aunt Mary, but we don't *like* her.  She *might* actually become *human*
    to us if we used her first name and she couldn't have that.  She
    needs to maintain the picture of her being above those younger than
    her, etc.
    
    As you can see, I *do not* like my aunt very much and have all kinds
    of trouble with her, so I appear bitter here.  But seriously, folks,
    any other ideas about older people not wanting to be called by their
    first names.  Do you think it's as I have guessed - a power trip
    - pure and simple, or is there more to it?
    
    	-Ellen

    I suspect that a good many older people prefer to be called by more
    formal titles simply because they were raised to think of that as
    the respectful thing to do. They might feel just as uneasy having
    someone a third their age calling them "Joe" or "Mary" as I do when
    someone my age calls me "Mrs. Ravan" (I want to look behind me for
    my mother-in-law - they can't possibly mean *me*!)
    
    My grandmother lived in Louisiana all her life, and was "Miz Orrie"
    to the locals and "Madame" to her in-laws. Only her brothers and
    close friends called her "Orrie".  She was too well bred to say
    anything if someone she didn't know would address her in what she
    considered a familiar manner, but she wouldn't like it.
    
    I don't think it's necessarily a sign of feelings of superiority
    to want to be addressed in the way one is most comfortable with.
    It's also true that some people use forms of address - along with
    anything else that comes to hand, such as table manners, clothing,
    and how the kids are raised - as arguing points in an ongoing battle
    for supremacy. Probably the best way to deal with that is to address
    them as they prefer; doesn't hurt you, and takes the sting away
    from them.

    -b

    In answer to your question, "What does your husband say about this?",
    he doesn't say anything.  He can't stand his mother, "She's a nosy,
    busy-body, who can't keep her opinions to herself, and she is a
    bitch". (How many times have I heard that?????)
                   
    Just a little insight into the "B's", he is the kind of man who
    gets what he wants, *ALWAYS*.  He is also forever saying cute little
    things like, "it must have been a woman who did that" (when something
    goes wrong), or " Leave it to a woman", or any other the other female
    oriented innuendos; she is the President of the League of Women
    Voters, on a few committees for the town, and always sits in on
    the Selectman/Town Council/etc.... meetings.  My husband can't stand
    to go visit his parents, because they are so different and he can't
    stand to see "How his mother takes advantage of a good situation",
    she doesn't work, but can sure spend the $$$$$.
    
    Just an example of how they feel about us (me and the kids); for
    Christmas we got:
    		Brent - a sweater (it is homemade, but that is all he
   			got)
    		Sarah - same as Brent (shock...... they didn't go overboard
    			for her, like usual....... thank goodness, for 
    			Brent's sake)
    		Me    _ a sweater from Sears
    		Steven- 3 magazine subscriptions (min. of $28 each),
    			8 Kodak film mailer (last time I checked the
    			prices they were around $6 each), 2 pair of
    			long johns, $40 in cash and a check for $150.
    
    Granted he is their son, but this is unfair to the kids (to hell
    with me, but why make the kids do without?).
    
    All mail from them is sent to Steven, with mention of us as an after
    thought almost: he got a New Years card that said all the usual
    Happy New Year greetings, plus the check for $150, and on the bottom
    after the signatures it said, "Oh, extend our greetings to the others".
    
    I really try like hell to ignore the things that happen, because
    I know the reasons (They have been stated by his mother), and if
    I am repeating myself, I'm sorry......
    		1) I am a divorcee
    		2) I have 2 children, Brent is 13+ years younger than
    		   Steven and Sarah is 15 yrs younger
    		3) I can have no more children, hysterectomy, and Steven
    		   is an only child and the last of the Belforti's 
                4) and probably the biggest problem, I am 6 1/2 older
    		   than he is
    Well, not that I have vented my frustrations, I am sorry to ramble
    like this; but it does help to talk about it sometimes.  
    
    Sorry for the lenghth, and bitching!
    
    Mary-Lynn
                   
    

    I think I would seriously check into spending Christmas with someone
    who valued me and my children and Steven as a family more than your
    in-laws seem to!  Is that a choice?  Would Steven understand your
    need to create holiday celebrations which do not cause you pain?
    
    It would be interesting to be a fly on the wall when he told the
    folks that you would not be visiting this year, and that he would
    drop by and have dinner with them (by himself) sometime in January.  
    Maybe they would catch on...

re .-1

What a wonderful idea!

Jill

    Ha........ I beat you all to it!  More or less!
    
    After entering all my sad/hard luck story, and then getting out
    of the system, I realized I left out the best part.............
    
    The in-laws always have a big bash on New Years Eve, we were suppose
    to go down......  for days before hand we planned to have some friends
    come to our house (try fitting 6 adults, 4 kids, 2 cats and 1 dog
    into a 2+/- bedroom duplex).  On the 30 Steven called and told the
    family that we would not be there, we had other plans.... and he
    didn't apologize or give any details, just "we won't be there".
    The night of the 31/1 was the best night in our new home back East,
    since we got here a year ago.  Even with people sleeping all over
    the floors, and everyone trying to use the bathroom (only 1) in
    the morning.  IT WAS GREAT!  No in-laws to try to impress, no in-laws
    to try and keep the kids (ages 13 & 11) quiet around, no in-laws
    PERIOD.  I told Steven I wanted to have all our holidays with freinds
    from now on, he agrees!
    
    Thanks for letting me vent my frustrations, and share some of my
    triumphs with you all!
    
    

    A winning strategy!
    
    And you have a whole year to figure out how to create a *Christmas*
    celebration that works for you in 1987!

    <--(.26)
    
    Right ON, Sister!  Congrats to you and your spouse both!
    
    					=maggie

I've basically not been calling my future in-laws anything.  For my birthday,
 though, they signed my card "Mom & Dad M."  Guess I know what I'll be calling
  them . . .

Me, I'm all for the hippie approach of calling everyone by their first names
 by default, unless they indicate that they'd rather be addressed another way.
  Another thing is that it wouldn't feel right to address them in a "more fam-
   iliar" way than my S.O. does (she calls them Dad & Mom).
    <_Jym_>

  Re:.26
  
  
                   Congratulations!
  
  Thanks for sharing with us.  That IS a warm feeling...
  
  
  
  					Terza
  
  

    My father always called his parents Ma and Pa.  Before my parents
    got married, my mother called them Mr. and Mrs. Bryant.  After their
    marriage, she was never sure what to call them, so she never called
    them anything until the kids came along.  We also called them Ma
    and Pa, so she finally started calling them that.  (My mother's
    father was dead and her mother was "out of the picture," so it was
    not an issue for my father.)
    
    As a result, my mother was always conscious of how awkward this
    problem can be and always told her kids' SOs "Call us Connie and
    Joe" early on.
    
    But what to call my mother-in-law?  (she's widowed.)  Her nameis
    Ann, but her family calls her Cookie.  Before we were married or
    engaged, I had given her a birthday card addressed to Mrs. Warren.
    She told Paul to tell me I didn't have to call her that, but I couldn't
    get a direct answer as to what she wanted to be called.  The same
    thing happened when we got married and I pushed the issue.  "I don't
    care; whatever you want."  Well, Cookie seemed so SILLY to me and
    sort of disrespectful; Ma
    and Mom (her 4 kids call her both) were already taken and didn't
    feel right.  I suggested Ann and she agreed that was the best. 
    But I'm the only inlaw in the family, so everyone else calls her
    either Ma or Cookie.  When I talk about "Ann," no one knows who
    I mean.  So mostly I wasn't calling her anything...
    
    Until we had a baby.  We asked her what she would like Caileigh
    to call her.  "I don't care; whatever you want."  Well, since my
    mother already has grandchildren that call her Grandma and it made
    the most sense to have Caileigh call her that as well, we suggested
    she pick something other than that and she finally decided on Nana.
    So that's what I mostly call her now.  
    
    The only problem now is that her two sisters keep referring to her
    as Grandma to Caileigh (who fortunately isn't old enough to understand
    yet) despite our explanations that she is Nana, because they like
    it better.
    
    If it's not one thing, it's another...
    
    -Tracy