Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    The October issue of "Psychology Today" features several articles
    about teenagers and sex, including the problem of reluctance to
    use birth control. I only skimmed the articles, but they looked
    informative. (FYI, the ZK library has a copy.)
    
    I'm leary of offering any opinions about the behavior of teens today,
    because I didn't feel that kind of pressure - either from my peers
    or from myself - until I was in college. (Well, I was a late bloomer.
    Thank heavens!) I'll admit that I did suffer from the "if it's true
    love it will sweep you off your feet, and you won't have time to
    think about mundane matters such as birth control" syndrome, though.
    
    -b

    You might (or might not) want to address this topic in
    EUREKA::PARENTING.  (In fact, the problems of raising teenagers
    have come up there several times.)  Press KP7 or SELECT to add
    it to your notebook.
    
    	-Neil

    as a participant in parenting, and as the originator of a couple
    of the notes on teenagers, I second Neil's remark.
    Bonnie

	
	.1, .2, .3 : are cop out answers; if the person didnt want *your*
	opinions - why was the question then asked here?? Go dig into some
	other file for the answers...thanx!

	From 90.15 -
    
    	A persons sex-drive is very periodic; lets say on a "monthly"
    cycle. For the average person, things start to change and sync up
    with the rythms of nature at roughly the age of 13-14 years. From
    my own experience, sexual energy does indeed have the property of
    momentum - once things get "rolling"...

				* * * 

	Specifically -

	1. What do you tell a young person about dealing with the natural
	cycles that exist within their structure, ie, how they're put together.

	2. How do you tell a young person to respect the 
	"momentum_like_property" of sexual energy - so they might think
	before they feel_too_much - so to speak?

	I would be most interested in hearing some *good* answers to these...
	
    	Joe Jas
    

    
    	Joe Jas humbly appologises for his attitude. I did not intend
    to insult anyone -
    
    	JJ
    

    Based on sample size of one, both your questions were answered to
    my daughters satisfaction by material she had encountered in various
    magazines.  Any insights from me were viewed as non-authoritative,
    which I can't argue with.  Further, her integration of the material
    was more advanced that what I had to offer.

    The reason I seconded the suggestion of Parenting is that there
    is already a fairly good discussion of the topic there.
    
    My kids don't like to talk about sex very much *especaily* the
    teenagers. I brought them up being careful to explain as much as
    I felt they were ready for. All the books said that if you are 
    open and talk to them they will learn from you and come to you with
    problems. Don't believe it. (Not to say that there have been any
    problems....yet and I hope never.) 
    
    I do occasionally *try* to ge the topic going with my daughter
    (nearly 13) when we are alone together. Result - one day when angry
    she says words to the effect that she doesn't like talking with
    me because *all* I talk about is sex. So I tried religion for a
    while - and didn't get much further. (Actually she isn't interested
    in much of anything I like to talk about "*boorriinnngggg*"!
    
    I know they know where babies come from. I know they know at least
    a little about contraception, disease, etc. etc. I know they
    are awfully ignorant still and not too wild about Mom or Dad trying
    to impart info in this area. Just keep on listening and hopeing
    you've done your best.
    
    Bonnie
    

	    An angle perhaps more relevant to this file (but certainly
	also worthy of discussion in PARENTING) is the role that sexism
	plays in the formation of sexual knowledge and attitudes.  The
	early teen years is a time when peers demand strict conformity.
	(The much-touted nonconformity of these years is really a matter
	of differentiating oneself from one's parents, a healthy rebel-
	lion.  There are, nonetheless, strict rules of conformity that
	an adolescent's peers demand compliance with.  This is perhaps
	the result of an emphasis to mistrust anyone different that is
	fed to us as we grow up.)
	    Part of this conformity is sexist sexual beliefs and atti-
	tudes.  As their sexual lives blossom, teens look everywhere for
	information on sex - clues about what's happening to them.   The
	"information" that is often available to them are sexist myths.
	    Reflecting on my own experiences, I recall that I thought
	the sexist locker-room "knowledge" was ridiculous.  A big factor
	in my rejection of this was that I felt more intelligent than my
	peers at the time, and didn't pay them much heed.  Somehow what
	they believed didn't seem right (particularly with regard to the
	girls), so I believed in myself and rejected their myths.  (It
	turns out I was right, no?)
	    What to do?  Well, my parents were out of the question.  I
	figured I could find out what knowledgable adults have to say
	about sex by sneaking peeks at my stepfather's pornography.  (If
	some of you are now harboring doubts about my aforementioned in-
	telligence, I can understand, but please consider that I was
	young and na�ve.)  I was one of those people who really *did*
	read the articles!
	    Some of the articles were actually reasonable, in a hip,
	Masters & Johnson way.  Most of them, however, were promoting
	the same sexist crap that was popular in the locker rooms.  When
	I realized that there were adults still believing this stuff, I
	started feeling even more intelligent.  (Cocky little bugger,
	wasn't I?)  (This was already sort of set in motion, though,
	with respect to my stepfather.  He was stupid - my mother mar-
	ried him for his looks - and eventually started beating my mo-
	ther.   It didn't surprise me that his tastes in porn would tend
	toward the asinine locker room myths.)
	    At any rate, to find out the real lowdown, I went to the
	library and read stuff like Masters & Johnson.  I thought this
	to be kind of scandalous, and I actually took buses to libraries
	on the other side of town, where nobody knew me, and read the
	books in corners where nobody could see me.  There I found the
	Straight Dope, healthy, trustworthy, and stressing that every-
	body involved are people.  (Subtle feminist propaganda?)  I got
      	all hip and enlightened, and had all the makings of a wonderful,
	sensitive bed partner willing to share in the responsibility of
	birth control.  Not too shabby for a self-taught boy of 13, eh?
	    Of course, none of this helped me until my zits cleared up.

	    I guess the point of all this is that the Straight Dope is
	out there, waiting to be read.  It makes sense, doesn't degrade
	anybody, and is much more fun than the sexist myths.
	    But how does one impart this wisdom to teens?  After all,
	not everybody is going to hop a bus to a library on the other
	side of town, even if they did know what books to look up there.
	Dr. Ruth is a good source - she's offbeat enough to appeal to
	teens (she even let Ozzy Osborne sit in her lap).  Of course,
	if the teen is uptight about talking with parents about sex, or
	having the parents know that they're learning about sex, radio
	is not the best medium.  Then again, you can always buy your
	kids an AM/FM Walkman.  They'll love you for it.
	    Somebody mentioned teen magazines.  It looks to me like
	they are as variable in quality as the women's magazines:  some
	are cool and easygoing about sex; others promote sexist myths
	(cook our tuna casserole for your husband and he might give you
	the privilege of relieving his animal urges with you - smile and
	think of England).
	    Books?  Fiction and nonfiction?  I don't really know what's
	available for teens.  Remember, I was reading Masters & Johnson,
	which isn't exactly aimed at teens.
			<_Jym_>

    The absolutely best thing that happened to me as a 14-year old is
    this:  a caring friend gave me a copy of _Our_Bodies_Ourselves_.
    It should be required reading for adults, too!  The updated edition
    was released last year, it's bigger and even better than that first
    many-years-ago copy that I got.  There is also a parallel men's
    edition now available called _Men's_Bodies_Men's_Selves.  If you
    have teeneage children (and even if you don't!), buy these books,
    and make them accessable.  They may not feel comfortable with you
    SEEING them reading the books, but chances are good they WILL reasd
    them.  (Teenagers are infinitely curious about sex.)  
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Rita
    
    

Did anyone ever stumble upon the classic The Sensuous Man and The Sensuous
Woman books??? My girlfriend MaryLou and I went thru an infatuation with
sex when we were 16.  Sex, not boys.  I couldn't somehow connect the two.
I knew boys had all the right equipment, but no boy ever tried anything
with me and I wasn't aware that they were supposed to.  In retrospect
I attribute this phenomenon to the presence of my 5 tall, immediately
available and fairly overwhelming brothers.

We bought these two and smuggled them into our lockers at school after
stapling book covers over them (we even labelled them as Ethan Frome and
the like).... and we CONSTANTLY referenced them.  SOmeone would say
something or mention a detail about sex and we dove for these books.
Not exactly Masters and Johnson, either.  The stuff about the whipped
cream and Snickers bars was really enough to put you off of sweets...!

My mom made herself available to me and we talked alot, but she always
used baby terms to describe everything, so it was hard to take her
seriously.  The day I went up to her and asked her if a girl could get
pregnant if a guy ejaculated on her thigh was the only straight and
acceptable answer I ever got from her.  Although I think I gave her heart
failure or damn near close to it (this was 1971),  I was fairly analytical
about it.  It was MaryLou's question, not mine (and the Sensuous Woman
didn't answer that one).  Turns out MaryLou had finally connected sex
and boys.

Anyway, our cycle lasted for about 6 months and then died.  But I know
that had someone explained to me that it was my body doing this, I would
have accepted it and not felt so GUILTY about being so curious!!  I
figured I was right down there with the bimbos in the Combat Zone!! And
all I was doing was reading about it!  MaryLou nearly quit school because
she had worked out that Danny had ruined her for life and with her
Catholic upbringing she'd have to leave the country....

Maybe the teens infatuation with sex is what we as adults remember WE
were doing and we're seeing them as not being like us.  If my daughter
is anything like ME when I was that age, I'm not gonna worry -- she'll
do all of it for me....

Bugsy

{RE .9} - We've been giving _Our_Bodies_Ourselves_ as presents to teens
 for quite some time.  They're great gifts.  One thing that they all
  pick up on, though, is the unfair portrayal of heterosexual vs. homo-
   sexual relationships.

Heterosexual relationships are portrayed as a power struggle, while
 lesbian relationships are portrayed as a rosy path with tons of free-
  dom.  Plenty of the positive aspects of relationships that are set
   forth in the "Women Loving Women" chapter could apply to heterosex-
    ual relationships; and plenty of the problem areas in "Our Relation-
     ships With Men - The Stuggle For Equality" chapter could apply to
      lesbian relationships.

Maybe in the future we'll rip those chapters out and toss in a Dr. Ruth
 book.  Dr. Ruth's pretty fair to everybody . . .
  <_Jym_>