Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    1.	My spouse and I keep our credit cards, checking accounts, etc.
    	individually, just as we did before we were married.  Seems
    	to work well for us.
    
    2.	"Women's Bank" was started in the mid-late 70s. It was
    	doing pretty poorly (from a financial standpoint) and was aquired
    	by Citibank Corp. in the early 80s.  As far as I know, it still 
    	maintains it's name and individuality (and the one mid-town
    	office) but it's now backed by Citibank capital. 
    
    	As for the service, I couldn't say.  Didn't bank there.  
    
    LZP
    

    I haven't run into this problem, thank heavens; possibly it's because
    I had a number of credit cards, auto loans, etc. while I was single.
    When I married, I instructed the various companies to change my
    name, and it all seems to have worked. (Then again, the last time
    I bought a car, I was still single...)
    
    None of our credit-card accounts are shared. Jim and I have separate
    accounts for nearly everything, including DCU. This probably helps
    a lot in the credit-rating game, but we did it that way mostly to
    keep the records straight. I would advise having at least one such
    account in your own name; not only should it help with credit ratings,
    but that way you can charge Christmas presents without your spouse
    knowing what you paid for it! (A little humor there - very little.)

    -b

	We keep separate credit cards, even for stores.  I think we only
	have one joint card.  Since we make about the same, I do find it
	odd that Tom gets *much* more mail asking him to take a new
	credit card.  I have always been very concerned about my credit
	rating, which is why I insist that my name is first on all joint
	loans (mortgage) and bills.  Our car loans are separate.  We
	have joint checking/savings accounts in case of death.

	...Karen

We do separate but equal as well.  To my advantage was the fact that I had all
my own credit established before marriage and when I changed my name, a simple
namechange sufficed with most.  One major credit card company (Sears, as a 
matter of fact) inquired as to my marriage status change when I changed my
name.  I told them it was none of their damn business!  I was only offering a
name change, not a financial change.  They accepted that after I called
Customer Service and said I was getting rid of the card since they wouldn't
keep up with the times.  They were very nice when backed against a wall.

We each have our own major credit cards in our own names that reflect single
accounts (Amex, Mastercard) and separate gas card accounts, but I put Patrick
on my Jordan Marsh account because I want him to shop there -- I love the
store!  Some cards are joint cards -- nothing important, tho'...

The mortgage is in BOTH our names with both of us a co-mortgagees.  My car
loan is in MY name (done without Patrick even mentioned on the application
except marking an 'M' under Marital Status - the salesman was amazed) and
Patrick's truck loan is in HIS name.

We keep separate DCU checking and savings accounts, and a mutual household
account in a bank in Mass.

Personally, all I can offer as explanation for my ease of credit is that
I was firmly established before I got married and we share and share alike
when we have to apply for more credit.

When I got my first real, full-time job, my mother dragged me down to the
Baybanks and cosigned two credit cards for me -- Mastercharge and Visa.
My father blew his top about it, giving 2 credit cards to a 21-year-old...
My mother shushed him up and told me that *I* was responsible for them
and had to pay them off, but I could buy anything I wanted with them
because they were MY cards.

You guessed it -- loaded them both up to the max within a few months
(Mom was a genius -- she requested credit limits that were REAL low) and
spent the next year paying exorbitant interest on my cards.

I learned the hard way, but I learned!!!!  And Mom didn't do that for any
of my brothers because she said they didn't need the help, they could do
it much easier on their own than I could.

After a few years passed, I changed the cards so that Mom was no longer
co-signor... and I intend to do this with my own daughters... I think
Mom was ahead of her time....

Bugsy

        We always do mortgages and other loans jointly.  Who's name goes
        first is pretty random.  Usually one or the other makes all the
        payments, however. 
        
        We have separate bank accounts... balancing a joint account
        (particularly for checking) just isn't any fun.
        
        Nearly all of our credit cards are joint.  Most (Sears, Visa,
        Master Card, at least) gave each of us a card with our own name
        on it, automatically.  I really don't even remember who's
        name is first on which accounts, nor do I particularly care.
        We also each have several cards separately (primarily cards
        we've carried since before we were married).  I used to pay
        Master Card and Barbara used to pay Visa (the only cards
        we use with anything resembling regularity); now that we
        have a common statement for both, we haven't quite figured
        out whether to alternate months or give them two checks for
        each bill...
        
        	/dave

    I had all my own credit cards from before we were married, so we
    just left it like that.  The only credit card that we have jointly
    is for the house, but that's to make my accounting easier when I
    do the taxes.  Usually, my name goes first on checking, savings
    and brokerage accounts because I'm the one who opens them, and I
    can never remember my husband's social security number.
    
    My mother is currently trying to establish her own credit rating
    just in case anything happens to my father, which is not easy for
    someone in her late 60's.  But she's requested that all the utility
    and insurance bills etc. be listed in both names to start establishing
    credit, and my father closed out their Visa account and opened one
    in both names so she would have credit.  Also, he's had her as
    co-borrower on some recent collateral loans that they have taken
    out to give her a credit rating.
    
    My husband and I just refinanced our house through DCU, and I thought
    it was very odd that although the mortgage is in both names, I had
    to specifically request that it be reported to the credit bureaus
    as a credit reference in both names, otherwise it would automatically
    only be reported in his name.  That's really odd since my name is
    the first one listed.  Just a bit sexist!!!
    
    Cathy

	    Cheryl and I (have lived together for 3 years, plan to
	get married in 10 months) have separate credit unions, but
	she doesn't use hers.  We do most of our transactions at
	ATM machines (at 75 cents a pop) and her credit union doesn't
	deal with ATMs.
	    We're not really big on credit.  One car loan, no credit
	cards except Sears and Discover.
			<_Jym_>

	I'm confused.  It seems two notes have converged on the same
	discussion.  As I said in my other reply, I believe it is
	the law the a credit card (in both names?) causes the credit
	rating to be applied to both spouses.  Does anyone know?

					Eileen

    
    Re -1, I don't know what the actual law is, but I do know you can't
    take it for granted that a wife will get credit for loans in both
    names.  I think the major problem in joint loans and credit cards
    is when the husband earns considerably more than the wife earns.
     People just look at the incomes of both people and regardless of
    actually signed a check from a joint checking account, they see
    that the man earned $40,000 and the woman $20,000 and they figure
    the man paid for it.  Also, I think that women who married young
    and never had their own credit when they single (which is less common
    now), have a harder time establishing their own credit after a divorce.
     If a loan was granted on the basis of the husband's income, even
    if in both names, the wife may not be able to get credit for it.
    
    Lorna
    

    Re. -1.  I disagree that the banks look at who makes more and not
    who writes the check.  I make about twice what my husband does,
    and they still have tried addressing things to him, saying how good
    his credit rating is.  I have found that by complaining to the credit
    company, utility company or whoever usually works, and that they
    can change their ways and address things to both of us, when we
    hold the account jointly.  I also think you are assuming that the
    man always makes more, which is something that always irritates
    me, because I will most likely always be the primary earner in our
    family.  Yes, I realize this may not usually be the case, but why
    is it that people usually just assume that he makes more?
    

    
    Re -1, you misunderstand me.  I am not *assuming* that the man always
    makes more!!!!!!
    
    What I said was that women who *do* earn considerably less than
    their husbands are going to have a harder time proving that they
    deserve to receive credit for joint loans or mortgages.  This obviously
    does not apply to you.  (Maybe that newspaper Jim Dyer quoted while
    obviously offensively sexist does have somewhat of a point in regard
    to feminists being paranoid!)
    
    If this was not the case then where did all these hard luck stories
    about women getting credit come from?  
    
    An example:  If you get a divorce and want credit for your joint
    mortgage and you earned $40K and he earned $25K I can't believe
    you'd have as hard a time as I would if I earned $16K and my husband
    earned $40K.  
    
    Lorna
    

    OK, I'm feeling sufficiently paranoid after reading all this wonder
    wonder about OUR house loan.  How do I find out if I'm getting credit
    for it too?  Someone mentioned read the fine print.  Someone else
    mentioned call and ask.  I doubt it'll be in the loan papers (though
    I'll check), and I generally think the folks at our mortgage company
    are not too swift.  Any other ways to find out what my credit rating
    is?
    	Mez

>    Any other ways to find out what my credit rating is?

just ask.  Consumer Reports (May 83, p254-259) had an article called "What
makes you a good credit risk?"  The article included the names of the 5
major credit bureaus, with addresses.  If you write to them, they'll either
tell you that they have no information, or that you should send them
something like $2 and they'll send you a report.  I wrote off to 3 of them,
and got back one report, which was pretty cryptic.  When we got our mortgage
2 years ago, the bank officer knew that I'd been late on one Master Charge
payment, but I don't remember finding that in the credit report.  It was
either well-hidden, or I didn't write to the right bureau.

TRW Information Services	Trans Union Credit Information Co.
505 City Parkway W.		444 N. Michigan Ave.
Orange California  92668	Chicago, Illinois  60611

Credit Bureau Inc.		Chilton Corp.
1375 Peachtree St N.E.		12606 Greenville Ave.
Atlanta, GA  30309		Dallas, TX  75243

Pinger System
2505 Fannin
Houston, TX  77002

If anyone wants a copy of the article, I'll make copies


Here's another question, and I'd really appreciate answers (send them to me
at DINER::SHUBIN, and I'll post results if I get any):  Do you know when a loan
payment is overdue?  If you pay before the due date, you're obviously ok, but
if you pay between that date and the end of the grace period, you're
considered late (and a report automatically goes out to the credit bureau).
If you pay after the grace period, you're late, and have to pay an overdue
fee.  The late notices are measured in 30-day units, so if you're into the
grace period by a day, they send a 30-day late notice.  

So, here's the question: Did anyone know that paying during the grace period
is considered late, and gets a bad report?  I got a couple of threatening
notices from BayBanks about my car loan, and wrote to the state banking
commission (or some such authority, I don't have the letter handy).  The
reply told me that the grace period is only grace from the late fee.  It was
a big surprise.  It was also a barely-literate letter, but that's another
story.

					-- hs

    RE:12
    
    In order to make sure that you (male or female) are getting credit
    for any accounts in which you are a co-signer, take the following
    steps.  
    
    1.  Write a letter to the bank, store (whatever), explaining that
    you want the credit history reported in both names.
    
    2.  Ask which credit bureaus are being reported to by your creditor,
    and write them the same letter.  In order to ensure compliance,
    send the letters via registered mail.
    
    3.  Periodically review your credit history file with the credit
    bureau.  They charge a fee for this (about $25.00), but it's worth
    it.  You can challenge anything that goes in, and they are required
    by law to place your comments in the record.  The 2 major credit
    bureaus in the area are TRW located in Framingham, and Chilton's
    in Worcester.  I don't know about New Hampshire.
    
    Remember, it's your credit history, and the credit bureaus are famous
    for taking the bank's word for everything without checking it out.
    They make lots of mistakes.  You have to be pro-active and look
    out for yourself. 
    
    If you have accounts which are closed, you can still add a letter
    to your history file stating that it was a joint account and that
    you were responsible for payment along with your (ex)spouse.  It
    is especially helpful if your (ex)spouse signs the letter with you,
    or writes one himself.  It isn't 100%, but it does help.
    
    

    For all women out there who have not yet set up a credit history
    for yourselves.
    
    In order to save yourself some possible problems later, start now
    to set up a credit history for yourself.
    
    Get a VISA or Master Card (or both) even if you need to have it
    co-signed by your spouse, father, boyfriend, mother, GOD, whoever.
    
    The important thing is to get it, and in your own name.  After a
    year of good standing with no late payments you can get the bank
    to take off the co-signer, and then you are on your own.  Just make
    sure that the credit limit is reasonable for your income, and make
    sure you use it (you won't get any credit for an inactive account).
    
    Don't pay everything off each month, but carry a small balance and
    make regular payments.
    
    This is also a good way to get credit histories started for your
    kids.
    
    Even women who are married should have a credit history in their
    own name in case of future separation.  If it's in your own name,
    they can't say "It was your husband's account even if it had your
    name on it".
    
    Before I have to don my asbestos suit, I agree that it is unfortunate
    that women have to take these kinds of measures, but on the other
    hand, an ounce of prevention can be effective until the world changes
    to meet our ideals of equality.  Think of it as an anti-sexism
    injection.
    

        I used to have a friend who tried to bump his credit rating
        by taking out personal loans, sticking the money in the bank
        for a week or a month, and then paying it back.  It only
        costs the difference between the loan interest and the saving
        interest (not free, but relatively cheap).
        
        I don't know whether that actually works... depends on if the
        people who analyze your credit reports are smart enough to (or
        bother to, or are allowed to) recognize a pattern of short
        term loans and assume you're trying to fool them...
        
        "credit rating" is one of the weirdest things about our economic
        system... the more money you owe, the more anxious everyone
        is to let you borrow more.
        
        	/dave

I've been fortunate in this area.  Like many, it's because I had my
    own credit established before I got married.  We've maintained totally
    separate credit cards, checking accounts, etc.  This is partly for
    convenienceand partly because I had a gut feeling I better.  I'm
    glad we have kept things separate.  My 56-year-old mother called
    me last week, elated that she finally got a credit card in her own
    name after two years of trying.  The limit is low, but it's hers.
    She found the whole process of applying and being rejected humiliating
    though.
    
    The only account we have jointly is the mortgage.  I assumed it
    would be reported in both our credit histories, but now I'm wondering.
    I'll have to check.  When we checked our credit two years ago (with
    the Worcester Credit Bureau), we had to request it in writing,
    including our names, address, social security number and signatures.
    If you've been rejected for some credit, it's free.  Otherwise,
    it cost $8 for an individual and $12 for a couple (probably more
    by now).  Doesn't seem right that they can include anything they
    want about you and you have to pay to know whether it's accurate
    or not!!
    
    -Tracy
    

    
    This situation just came up today for my ex-husband and myself.
     We own a house together and he wants to buy me out of my share.
     He had gone to the bank and applied for a loan in order to do this.
     He was turned down on the loan today because of a terrible credit
    rating.  Well, *he* has paid all his bills on time since we split
    up over a year and a half ago.  I, on the other hand, am horribly
    behind on the charges I had when I was living with him since I used
    to use his money to pay them (although they were all in my name)
    and since the divorce I just can't swing all the payments on time
    on my pay and eat and pay rent, too.
    
    The reason he has terrible credit is because all my bad credit ratings
    have also shown up on *his credit rating*!  This, even though we
    have lived apart for over a year and have been legally divorced
    for over 3 months.  
    
    Ironically, the first thing I was going to do when I got the money
    for my share of the house was pay off all my overdue bills!!!  Now,
    I can't do this because the bank won't give him a loan - BECAUSE
    of my overdue bills!!!
    
    Frustrated??  Exasperated?  We certainly are.
    
    Lorna
    

    re: .18
    
    Lorna,
    
    DISCLAIMER _ I'm not a lawyer, but I did spend 10 years in banking,
                 5 of those in consumer finance. Take this for what
                 it's worth. Consult a lawyer for legal advise.
    
    Were those bills you're not paying contracted under *BOTH* you and
    your ex-husband's names?
    
    It's not uncommon for a wife's credit to be listed under her husband's
    name. (I'm not disputing the ethics of doing so, just stating facts.)
    It's decidedly *less* common for a husband's credit to be listed
    under his wife's. (Sexism is alive and thriving.)
    
    Anyhow, if your husband didn't sign the contract for the bills you
    aren't paying, he shouldn't be penalized for that fact. He can ask
    (for a fee) to see his credit file and can start to clear his
    rating from there. Unfortunately, he's "guilty" until he proves
    himself "innocent". (... and he gets to do all the legwork.) 
    
    If however, he *did* sign the contracts and your definition of "his"
    and "yours" is based on some agreement between you two, you are
    still both *separately and equally* responsible. 
    
    Edd

    BTW - Finance laws change all the time. What was valid 2 years ago
          may not be today.
    
          Once again, I'm not a lawyer. Consult one if you have any
          legal questions.
    
    Edd

>    Credit cards are a Commie plot.
    
Actually they are a capitalist plot to increase the money supply and
make us spend more of what we haven't got.

Sorry couldn't resist,
Dave :^)

     
     Lenin's tomb is a Commie plot.
     
     --Mr Topaz