Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    Oh, Jim.  This has happened to me, too, but I fear I don't have
    any advice to give since all I could do was just hang on, too. 
    I am anxiously awaiting other people's advice or stories, so that
    if it happens again I might be better prepared.
    
              Carol

    
    	Laugh, giggle, then admit why!  Tell the person "you've got
    the biggest..." or "they're soooo pretty".  Chances are you'll 
    have relieved the stress in that situation *and* the person you
    told that to will feel complimented. Everyone likes to hear 
    something good about themselves!
    
    	Just do nothing and chances are this person will draw their
    own conclusion about you - probably wrong, too.
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    I agree with .2 - bring it out into the open, compliment the person
    "you've got pretty eyes", and if said with a smile, will usually
    be well received as a compliment.
    
    Of course, given the right circumstances, and the other person feels
    the same way about your eyes, or whatever, who knows what might 
    come of it :^).  And at least you won't spend the rest of the time
    looking like a silly school boy or girl, or feeling like one, like .0.
    
    Kathleen

    I disagree with the recommendations in .2-3. It's rather easy to
    interpret an admission of this form of attraction (which is what it
    is) as flirting, a come-on or, worse, harrassment, even if you
    intend the admission as a bland statement of fact. I'd view this as
    similar in nature to the issue of touching discussed in the previous
    topic. If it's a professional relationship, be professional. (If
    you're sufficiently good friends with the individual that
    misinterpretation is not likely, then I wouldn't consider this an
    issue - but in that case, you probably wouldn't be worried about it,
    either.) 
    
    People derail their train of thought for many reasons under many
    circumstances. Don't get hung up on just one of them. 

    
    I agree with .4.  If you don't know a person very well it's better
    to stick to being professional.  If you tell someone that you think
    they have beautiful eyes, or whatever, it can very easily sound
    like a come-on.  If the other person is interested in you, you could
    put *them* in an embarrassing situation if they think *you* are
    interested in more than what you really are.  It's not fair to make
    verbal passes unless you're interested in carrying them out!
    
    I think if you're in a good relationship in your personal life,
    that you don't want to risk, and you work with someone you find
    very attractive, that it's time to employ a little self-control!
    
    Lorna
    

        As a happily married man, I'm not particularly comfortable
        complementing the physical appearence of women with whom I am
        not particualarily well acquainted. In an world where sexual
        harrasment is a reality, I'm not comfortable in introducing sex
        into what should be a purely business relationship. In the case
        I mentioned, I'm not at all comfortable making social overtures
        to an engineer with seniority over me--it could be seen as
        currying favor.
        
        The problem in this situation is that sex has introduced
        itself in a situation where it is inappropriate. It is, in
        my mind, innappropriate for a number of reasons. First, this
        is a business situation. Second, it can be seen as a power
        situation in both directions. Men are assumed to have greater
        power than women in our culture, but in this case the woman
        is in fact the senior person. Third, when I do make social
        overtures, I prefer to do it a bit more gradually.
        
        Unfortunately, inappropriate as it is, sexual attraction HAS
        introduced itself. I'm thoroughly distracted, at least at first.
        (Fortunately after a while it began to wear off. I was just very
        uncomfortable until it did.)
        
        In my case this sort of thing doesn't happen too often. However,
        I received a very nice note from a young lady who didn't feel
        comfortable posting her experiences here who finds that it
        happens quite often. Most single young men of her own age can
        bring out some of the same problem. I might be able to get away
        with the occasional overly casual complement, but I doubt that
        it would help her to complement lots of her male coworkers. The
        chance that they would get the wrong idea is just too great. 
        
        The best I've been able to come up with is to grin and bear it,
        to be so thoroughly prepared that I'm not also uncomfortable
        with the material, and to take comfort that I'm not alone in
        this. (Thank you, Carol Johns and the un-named noter who sent
        mail.)

        JimB.        

    I have no idea if the following suggestion would work, so
    I'd appreciate comments on it.
    
    You make it an anti-compliment.  "I'm sorry.  It's unfortunate,
    but I find you/your <whatever[s]> very attractive.  This seems
    to be handicapping me in dealing with you.  I hope this isn't
    inconveniencing you as well."  Don't smile, and maybe even look
    a bit anxious.
    
    							Ann B.

	How about just apologize for being distracted, and not
	give any reason for it? 

Personally (!),  I  agree  with  .8. I am not forward enough to tell someone
blatantly  that  I  am distracted because they're amazingly good-looking, it
can  be  misleading,  and  personally  I  don't  think it's appropriate in a
business  environment.  It's  no problem to "enjoy" the people you are with,
but often people don't see straight when involved romantically ....

If you  feel funny about not giving a reason, you could give a "reason" like
"I've  got  something on my mind" which _is_ true, and sort of indicates you
don't want to talk about it.

I _prefer_  though  to go with mind over .... shift gears and get intense on
your work.  (I do have to admit this is hard sometimes though!)

    
    	I cant believe how everyone necessarily interprets an (otherwise)
    innocent compliment as -
    		
    	1. Sex
    	2. A come on
    	3. flirting
    	4. a pickup attempt
    	5. harrassment
    
    It seem most people are *really* on their guard these days. Business
    environment or not - no wonder the world is so cut and dry. I *like*
    compliments - they're nice. I'll bet no one has a problem with the
    anti-compliment, which of course gets dished out 10 for 1. 'Real
    nice feeling (after a smile and Hello) when someone's eyes hit the
    floor, their voice tone lowers and you get this stupid robotic
    expression, in response to *you*.
    
    Its really pretty easy to distinguish between a come on and a
    compliment for what you are - if you dont have this pre_concieved
    notion that *anything* must_be_sex.
    
    	Joe 
    

    To (Joe?) Jasniewski:
    
    I'm curious.  Would you feel the same way regardless if it were
    a man or woman who responded to you in this manner?
    
                    Carol

    RE: .10  (Joe)
    
    I agree with you, that a compliment may be just that - an admiration
    of something about a person.  If said the right way, with the right
    tone of voice, with the right expression, it will probably taken
    in the right way.
    
    I have had compliments from people of all ages of both genders.
    Some of these were obviously come-ons, most were sincere compliments.
    
    Kathleen

    
    Re .10, maybe some people have had experiences that have put them
    on their guard.  *You* think it's easy to tell the difference between
    a compliment or a come-on.  Maybe everyone doesn't find it that
    easy and has been in a awkward situation before.
    
    Personally, I've *never* met anyone so attractive that I couldn't
    function and I usually don't compliment men that I'm not interested
    in.  I don't think it's *ever* necessary to comment on another person's
    physical appearance - as opposed to "What a nice dress" - anyway.
     Some people are ugly, some are gorgeous, most are mediocre.  I
    don't see the need to comment.
    
    
    Lorna
    

    
    	OK, I think I would take it easy from either a guy or girl (making
    the compliment) - as long as the other subtle channels of communication
    were "in line". 3 channels were mentioned in .12 ; Verbal, Tonal
    and Facial. There are more; one rides along the line of sight of
    the eyes, another is a simple "gut feel". I think information is
    really pouring in, for those whose attention is not "caught up"
    in some sort of "attitude".
    
    Yes, I would take offense to compliments coming from a man if I
    could detect "intentions". Hey, I just dont think homosexuality
    is the way to go - Isnt it interesting that the situation "inverts"
    itself for this scenario? I wouldnt be *offended* by compliments
    with "intention" from a woman - might be *nervous*, though!
    
    	Joe Jas 

    .re 14 "I just don't think homosexuality is the way to go."
    
    Not for you maybe.  For others, it's the *only* way to go.
    
    	-Ellen
    

    Thank you, Joe, for your honesty.  I was curious because so many
    times a person MAY not read anything into a compliment from the
    opposite sex, or maybe woman to woman, but I know there are many
    men who might feel uncomfortable getting a compliment from another
    man.
    
    It is still a "risk" or "scary" to compliment someone that makes
    your heart flutter, especially if you are happily married (or 
    whatever).
    
                Carol (let's see, how does that go...     O-+  )
    

    Been gone for a bit and find 195 topics in this notesfile when I return.
What a delight.   
    Both Lisa and I are tremendous flirters (She's better -- or at least more
outrageous-- than I am at it). Both of us have had to learn to curb those
verbal touchy feelies a bit in work situations.So much depends on how many
channels of communication are open.  If really only the professional
channel is open on the other end, it seems the physically complimentary
message (even of the nice dress/tie/shoes variety) is probably
inappropriate.  Some channels just can't carry some messages.  geez I sound
like a computer nerd "channels?".  At least I haven't started interfacing. 
    We've all been in situations, though, where other sometimes unconscious
channels are open.  The less acknowledged and known they are, the more
difficult it is for the message I send to survive and be the message you
receive.  I guess the first step is trying to be as aware of the various
channels that are open and what they can and can't communicate.  It changes
over the life of any relationship (personal, sexual, literary,
professional, etc) and may change from moment to moment. Go slow.  You can
crumple up letters, but it's hard to erase words. 
    What is perhaps a side issue follows.  .  .  Lorna, you said the clothes
compliment was a different issue.  Are there limits there too?  I like
women's clothes (:-) Hmmm just re-read that.  Take it as you will, the
truth is too mundane to get defensive about). I find the range of style and
color appealing (and the price and quality shocking, I shop with Lisa quite
a bit).  Guy's clothing seems to come in two tones, Blue-Blacks and Browns.
Though I do notice guy's clothing worth commenting on, I see a lot more
women's clothing worth complimenting. Sometimes I hesitate for any and all
of the reason's mentioned above.  And yes I do compliment men's clothing
much easier than women's.  Hey, Mary Ellen Z., I noticed you're following
this file.  What do you think?  I noticed when you wore dresses you used to
flame a bit at people who complimented you.  I realize at least some of that
was due to the insincerity of folks doing the complimenting/razing.

Lorna? Mez?  What do you think?

-Byron 

    
    Re .17, well, I'm personally always pleased when either a man or
    woman compliments my clothes or jewelry (especially my antique rings
    since I love'm).  But, when people (especially men) start making
    comments about my physical appearance I find myself starting to
    wonder what it's all about.

    Lorna
    

    Well, I was trying VERY hard to avoid this topic.  Mostly because
    I realize I fall FAR on the side of touchy-feely-flirty.  I believe
    people who would be upset at comments/touching would have much more
    useful feedback.  But you're right; on the days I wear dresses,
    when the tenth male says "Gosh, you've got legs", even if they ARE
    a friend, I get irritable.  I believe I agree with Lorna.  If I'm
    wearing something "rich or rare", of course I want people to notice
    it (after all, I can't see it while its on me).  But, if I'm wearing
    an incredibly dowdy dress, and you're complimenting me on the fact
    that I'm displaying my legs, then I'm going to get touchy.  I don't
    wear dresses so people can see my legs.  Usually, I wear them for
    ventilation, or a change of pace.
    	Mez

Miss Manners on when a compliment isn't. . . (Sorry about the Lady vs Women
but that's what she wrote)  Taken from 10-Sept B. Globe. 

It is a delicate subject, and Miss Manners asks you to listen carefully.  She
does not want you to retain the impression that it is the nice habit of
complimenting --giving well-intentioned praise--that is now backfiring.  

What can be an insult--although it may be worded the same as a genuine
compliment--is the implication that A LADY not in a social relationship to
you nevertheless EXISTS FOR YOUR AESTHETIC PLEASURE.  (my caps)
Complimenting the appearance of a lady you do not know (for example,
someone who passes you in the street) is such an insult.  SO IS DIVERTING A
BUSINESS SITUATION TO DISCUSS A LADY'S APPEARANCE (such as saying "I love
your blouse" to a colleague in the midst of a professional argument).
Again my caps  But the same remark addressed to a lady with whom you have a
social relationship would be a true compliment and most welcome.  A
gentleman need only ask himself what circumstances he would be pleased, and
when disconcerted, to be told, "I love your suit."


May not agree with it all, but an interesting slant. . .

-B

    Although I AM involved with someone, I'm still an 
    outrageous flirt.  More to the point, I love to
    watch a smile spread across the other persons face
    when I compliment them (male or female)...so, use
    your best judgement, but when in doubt, go ahead!
    
    Who knows, you might make someone's day a little
    brighter!
    
    

    I'll admit that it's a great feeling when someone tells you how
    attractive you are.  But I have this thing about personal remarks.
     I hate it when people remark about what I'm wearing.  If I dressed
    for a special occasion that may deserve comment but not everyday
    work wear.  I think this is a personal remark and personal remarks
    are RUDE.  
    
    I guess I'm in the minority on this.
    
    

    
    
    
    
    	I think you are too sensative.  Or shy.
    
    

>    	I think you are too sensative.  Or shy.
    
    By whose standard?   

    Mine of course.

    

    What's wrong with telling someone (man or woman) that they look
    nice, or that you like that outfit?
    
    If you really don't care what other people think of your appearance,
    than, aside from utilitarian considerations (cleanliness, appropriate
    to the weather) it should make no difference to you what you wear
    (and we all know some people like that). 
    
    But if you do vary your outfit from day to day, you must be doing it 
    because you do care about what other people think. If so, why do
    you object to their comments?
     
    -bs

    It HAS been quite a trip from the original note, but I don't think
    .0's predicament had much to do with job proficiency. Jim B said
    the attractive co-worker was senior, but not that she was light
    years more knowledgable about the particular topic of discussion;
    in fact, the way I read it, he was quite adequately prepared on
    a professional level, but not prepared for those big (brown?) eyes.

    I find that pretty easy to relate to, since a similar thing happened to
    me (with a woman co-worker with whom I was on an equal footing in terms
    of subject knowledge - I think I was 'senior' to her, grade-wise, at
    the time.)
    
    It was a memorable experience, and I was interested to see it discussed
    here - but so far I'm afraid none of the suggestions have struck me as
    ideal solutions. .8 or so (apologize for distractedness with no
    explanation) would be fine if I thought I could pull it off without
    getting more flustered, but I probably couldn't. I guess all I can
    do if such a thing happens again is to gut it out and try harder
    to concentrate on the discussion.

    Much as I like being distracted that way, I'm glad it doesn't happen
    (to me, anyway) at work very often.
    
    Chuck

  I don't remember all the replies before, so this may have already been
  mentioned, but why not get flustered?  "I love your eyes.  I'm confused
  by that.  I'm embarrassed because I'm confused."  Sounds terrible, but
  you see the idea...  My picture from that would be that all parties involved
  would giggle (and then continue with the work/discussion at hand) -- if not, 
  then   the other party is awfully sensitive and you are not responsible for 
  that.  But you _have_ "released" your own tension in the situation.
  
  
  							Terza
  
  

    We have one support person I sometimes have to work with who is
    fantastically good-looking.  (Not that I find him more attractive
    than my delightfully-curly-headed husband ;-)  It's almost hard
    to talk to this fellow because his looks are so distracting (he's
    single, too, so far as I know).  Oh, well, it's better than having
    to deal with someone who is distractingly homely, right?
    
    /Charlotte

    .30 You could be wrong.
    
    I've had to work with distractingly ugly.  As soon as I got to know
    him, I found how utterly charming and witty, and caring he was and 
    forgot how he looked.  
    
    Back to the subject of dealing with a distracting person, I've had
    success with imagining them in a ridiculous situation.  It broke
    the "mystique".
    
    Peg

    This will not tell anyone how to act when they feel flustered by
    someone's sexual/aesthetic appeal, or how to act if they have been
    so approached.  But this mental skill is one I've perfected to cope
    with certain unavoidable situations in life, and I also use it to
    enable myself to work with distracting (for whatever reason) people.
    
    Psychologists have a name for it, I think:  it's called "polyphasic
    thinking".  It simply means you can have parallel trains of thought
    going along in your head, without either one being dominant, and
    with the ability to switch your attention from one to the other
    if need be.
    
    I first actively learned this skill as a survival technique while
    learning to drive.  3 weeks after I got my learner's permit, I was
    in an accident (not my fault).  To me, the fact that I _could_ get
    in an accident when doing everything right was devastating.  I became
    quite phobic about driving, and stopped trying for a while.  When
    I started up again I was just as phobic as before.  But I was deter-
    mined to learn to drive.  So I learned to drive with the fear. 
    The fear was cooking along in my consciousness beside the skilled
    controller of the vehicle, and I couldn't let it influence my actions,
    or I'd be causing accidents for the rest of my days.  I drove in
    this state for a good two years.  
    
    Now the fear has faded, but the ability to do (or think or feel) 
    two wildly varying things at the same time has proven useful.  I 
    tend to rely on that mode of thought when with a magnificently 
    attractive coworker.  I tend to rely on it when I have arguments 
    with my husband ("yes, Virginia, you _can_ love and hate this man 
    at the same time").  I have relied on it when I had to give an 
    important presentation and was so sick I could barely crawl out 
    of bed.  I rely on it to be able to do work in a noisy, busy office.
    I relied on it as a musician to be able to listen to the rest of
    the orchestra and hear my own little part at the same time.
    
    The problem with this, I admit, can be that it is hard sometimes,
    after all this multitasking, to really focus in on one thing at
    a time.  But my skills and capabilities have broadened because of
    it, my awareness is tremendously heightened (it takes a lot of skill
    just to listen to two modes of thought/feeling at once) and after
    surviving a particularly taxing episode I often feel the pride of
    a juggler who can handle a baseball, a shoe, a pipe wrench and a
    cookie at the same time.
    
    Marcia