Conference turris::womannotes-v1

    Holly,
    It's very brave of you to talk about this in such an open place.
    Here are some questions for you to think about:
    - Is there enough joy for you in your relationship?
      (My relationships have always been bittersweet -- It's been hard 
      for me to learn to live with so much imperfection.)
    - Does your SO have the same goals for your relationship that you do?
    - Do you feel the charges leveled against you are fair?
    - If so, are you willing to work on changing?
    - Is your SO meeting enough of your needs?
    - Do you listen to each other enough?

    These are hard questions -- I'm not sure they can ever get fully
    resolved. Let your pain be a source of growth (and let us know how
    things are working out, if you'd like)
    
    Liz Augustine
   

        Sounds like you've made the most important step already:
        you've talked to each other about it.  Some couples go through
        years or even decades of suffering without bothering to talk
        about the problems.
        
        .1 has good questions.  If you and your SO can discuss the
        answers, you should be able to work it out one way or the
        other...
        
        	/dave

	Holly, I don't really have any advice, but what you said
	somehow seems familiar.  My husband and I get into
	arguments that happen because little things build up, that
	the other is not aware of.  Sometimes you just aren't aware
	that you are getting negative feedback on your actions, so
	are totally surprised when the situation turns into an argument.

	I think the important thing is to try and keep a good perspective
	on what the problems are.  If they are minor, then try to change
	some, and your SO should try and live with others.  Major
	problems really take a lot of thought, is there a compromise?

	Sometimes we just get *so* *mad* at each other, that we can't
	even reasonbly discuss the issue.  That's okay, it sometimes
	helps to scream and bring out everything that's ever really
	bothered you.  But remember the rules: no hitting below
	the belt; you *know* what can *really* hurt someone because once 
	you've grown in a relationship you've made yourself vulnerable.
	We just have to remember to go back and work out the issue
	when we've calmed down.

	Sounds to me like you're just getting to the point where
	you're not always on your best behavior, and it's time
	to work out the differences.  While you struggle through
	it always keep in mind how happy you are during other times.

	Well, I've only been married four years now, and I think
	there'll always be problems because of the different people we are.
	But I'm also confident that we care enough to work on them.

	Sorry this sounds kinda confusing, I'm sure you've heard it
	before, just thought I'd tell you that it happens to the
	best of us :-).

	...Karen

    Holly,  I also want to congratulate you for bravely posting this.
    I gather that your SO is indicating that the relationship is just
    as important to him as it is to you by initiating the dialogue.
    Nothing would have stopped him form walking out on you.  One point
    I want to make is that please do not view his voicing of problems
    as charges or accusations or complaints.  Please view it as his
    perception of the relationship.  Identifying a problem is the
    first step in resolving it.  Viewing it as a dialogue and not a
    personal attack will help you relax more.  This will put your
    mind more at ease to judge the situation better.  I would say
    that you have a good relationship going for you where the man
    is bold enough to identify the problems and is willing to have
    a dialogue.  Go with it and as mentioned earlier all relationships
    have rough spots.  Patiently smoothen them and your relationship
    will be heavenly.
    
    My two cents worth.
     

    I agree with the previous comments but would like to add one thing.
    This sounds like your SO has suddenly realized how deep it's getting
    and is a little scared.  Of what?  That depends on past experiences,
    his parent's relationship or others he's seen, etc.  Women are given
    more training on being open, as demonstrated by your original note,
    and for men this has to be scary.  Woman don't consider it negative
    to be dependent in some way on someone else but men are told that
    they always have to be in control.  You just might have too much
    power over him to make him comfortable.
    
    I hope this doesn't sound too sexist.  I just think that understanding
    the differences makes them easier to work on changing, should we
    want to.
    
    Good luck.
    

    I'm a "new reader" of this conference, and finally
    made it this far!!
    
    Holly, your original note struck a responsive chord
    in me-esp the comment about "inner time tables".  
    If I am reading (between the lines) correctly, I am
    in a similar situation.
    
    Would you mind updating us on the situation?
    
                     Deb
    

An update--

We are still together, but I'm not sure I have any more answers than I had 
last summer.

The relationship goes through periods of ups and downs as all relationships 
do.  Sometimes I feel very clear and loving and able to give a lot, listen 
a lot, understand well, and refrain from overreacting.

At other times I feel anxious, reactive, unable to listen very well, and find 
myself on the verge of throwing a fit whenever things don't go my way.

I like the way that the relationship demands a lot of me.  When I am 
feeling basically strong and secure, I find myself stretching to greater 
heights than I imagined possible.  It's kind of like being able to run 
faster than you thought you could if you are running with someone fast.  It 
motivates me in ways that other circumstances and relationships have not.

When things in my life feel like they are closing in on me, and work is 
demanding, friends are demanding, pets are demanding, and school is 
demanding, I barely feel able to relate to another person.  I wonder why I 
try to do it since I manage to make both of us miserable.  And then 
something happens and things get a little better, and I remember why the 
relationship is so important to me.  Or something makes us both laugh, and 
I feel much better than I would have by myself.

One of the biggest worries for me, though, is when things are basically all 
right for me, but the other person is going through a hard time.  I lose my 
ability to think of creative solutions or perspectives and keep thinking 
that if it weren't for me, everything would be fine.  Then I start needing 
reassurance, and a vicious cycle gets started.  Old insecurities coming 
home to roost, I guess.

I have been reading a very helpful book.  Necessary Losses by Judith 
Viorst.  It's not available in paperback yet, but is well worth the hard 
cover price in my estimation.  Viorst comes from a psychoanalytic 
background.  She manages to present a great deal of information about the 
way that early experiences shape us for later experiences in relationships 
in a positive light.  I usually turn off to heavy psychoanalytic 
interpretations, but there is something powerful about the way she presents 
the material.  Some of it sounds like a rerun of Psych 101, but most of it 
goes way beyond that.  She is able to draw upon her cognitive knowledge, 
her personal experiences, and various traditions in psychology.  It feels 
like a book for women, but men may disagree with that!

Another older book which my SO found at Annie's is How to Live with another 
Person by David Viscont, MD.  

I appreciate all the support I got from people in this file last summer 
when I wasn't able to talk about this with my friends.  

    Holly, your thoughts about this relationship are worth saving!
    Thanks for being open about this.
    When are we all going to learn that we don't have to be happy
    or perfect or whatever all the time? Part of being in a relationship
    includes accepting and loving the other person no matter what
    they're feeling (about themselves, about you, and about the rest
    of the world). Another part is trusting that the same goes on
    with the other person. Don't forget that your so still loves you 
    even when you're feeling totally inadequate and overwhelmed.
    
    liz