Conference yukon::christian_v7

 I just started reading a book by John MacArthur called "First Love" which
 comes with a study guide.  It basically is intended to remind the Christian
 who Jesus is, and to help us find that love that we felt when we were first
 saved.  I've only read a few pages, but so far it is quite good.  I started
 reading it Saturday evening, after a conversation with a friend who is
 in a similar boat as I..feeling that somehow that first love has slipped
 away from us.



 Jim

Thank you Jim for a quick reply.

I just found another reference to "The Mystery of the Holy Spirit" by R.C. 
Sproul (for ordering and an abstract):

 http://www.gospelcom.net/ligonier/ligcat/bkmysteryholysp.html

Our group did a study using R.C. Sproul's book on the Holy Spirit, probably
about two years ago.  He is a careful writer, and the book is good for 
gaining understanding and knowledge.  My suggestion would be to use his book
for group study and discussion, and supplement that with something a little
more personal for your spirits.  For some reason, Michael Card comes to mind,
though all I can think of right now is a book he wrote about Jesus.  Michael, 
being a musician and song writer, speaks to the spirit while R.C. Sproul, being
a theolgian, speaks to the mind and understanding.  This is not to say that
Michael Card does not speak to one's intelligence and that Sproul does not
speak to one's spirit, because they do, but the emphasis of each is a bit
different from the other.  I hope you understand what I am trying to say.

Leslie

    the Watchtower and bible tract society of pensilvania have many
    excellent book at verry cheap prices. one i would recomend is
    "knowledge that leads to eternal live" or "living forever in paradise"
     might cost you a couple of bucks each plus postage.
    Regards Bob
    

    Hi Bob,
    
    thanks for your input. Unfortunately, the Watchtower Bible and Tract
    Society, a.k.a. 'Jehovah's Witness' is _generally_ considered by most
    participants in this conference not to be "Christian".
    
    It is not my intention to 'rat-hole' this topic, but rather draw to the
    attention of some 'future' reader that the suggestion in the previous
    reply is not necessarily pointing to a 'reputable evangelical
    Christian' source.
    
    Harry

    Hi Harry
    Thats interesting I didn't know that JW's are not Christians.
    Q1	What are they?
    Q2 What is a christian
    Regards, Bob
    

    Hi Bob,
    
    as I said 'it is not my desire to "rat-hole" this topic'.
    
    This horse has been flogged to a bloody-pulp many times in previous
    incarnations of this conference. I suggest you read through them first
    before opening up the rat-hole here.
    
    Harry

Re: .6  (Bob)

>    Hi Harry
>    Thats interesting I didn't know that JW's are not Christians.
>    Q1	What are they?
>    Q2 What is a christian
>    Regards, Bob
    
A quick cut-and-paste from my recent note in 855.32:

If anyone is interested in hearing a lengthy discussion between myself and
Jehovah's Witnesses, there are plenty in the archives.  A couple examples
off the top of my head are atlana::christian_v6 note 489.* ("JWs and 1874,
1914, 1925, 1975, etc."), and _v6 note 23.* ("Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe
Jesus rose?").  Let the reader judge for himself.  My open letter to Mark
Sornson in atlana::christian_v5 380.89 is a representative statement of my
motives and intent.

Doctrine of God
---------------
JW - The doctrine of the Trinity is "a false, unbiblical doctrine" originated by
     Satan (Make Sure of All Things, 1953 ed., p. 386; Let God Be True, p. 101).
Bible - There is one God (Deut. 6:4), but three distinct Persons in the Godhead,
        the Father (Philippians 2:11), Jesus Christ the Son (John 5:18), and
        the Holy Spirit (Acts 5:3-4,9).

JW - Christ the Son was originally the first created being of Jehovah God (Let
     God Be True, p. 32).
Bible - Christ the Son is eternal, uncreated God (John 8:58, Revelation 1:17-18,
        and Isaiah 44:6).

JW - Jesus Christ was actually the incarnation of Michael the Archangel; Christ
     resumed the name Michael when He ascended to heaven (Your Will Be Done On
     Earth, p. 316-7; New Heavens and a New Earth, p. 30).
Bible - Nowhere is Michael said to have become Christ or vice versa; the Bible
        sharply distinguishes between angels and the exalted office of Christ
        (Hebrews 1:1-4).  Scripture tells us that Jesus is God (John 1:1), that
        He created all things and is before all things (Colossians 1:15-17),
        and that He was never al angel (Hebrews 1:5).

JW - Jesus Christ arose from the grave as a spirit person, Jehovah allowing Him
     to materialize a different body in which to appear to His disciples (Your
     Will Be Done On Earth, p. 143; Make Sure of All Things, 1953 ed., p. 314).
Bible - Jesus Christ arose in the same body that was laid in the tomb, which
        explains the marks of crucifixion, the empty tomb, and the empty burial
        wrappings (Luke 24:39, John 2:19-22, 20:20,25,27, John 20:1-9,
        respectively).

JW - The Holy Spirit is not a Person, but rather the impersonal, active force of
     God (Let God Be True, 2nd ed., p. 108; The Watchtower, June 1, 1952, p.24).
Bible - The Holy Spirit is an eternal Person, possessing all the essence of God
        (John 14:16-17,26; Acts 5:3-4).

Doctrine of Man
---------------
JW - A person's soul is an inseparable part of the body, so that when a person
     dies there is no continued existence of the soul (Make Sure of All
     Things, 1953 ed., pp. 349,352).
Bible - Christ taught that there is life after death (Luke 16:19-31), Christ
        promised continuing life the same day after death (Luke 23:39-43), and
        Paul taught an independent existence apart from the body after death
        (II Corinthians 5:5-8; Philippians 1:19-24).

JW - The doctrine of immortality of the soul finds its origin with Satan (Let
     God Be True, 2nd ed., pp. 74-75).
Bible - The immortality of the soul is a God-inspired truth (Ecclesiastes 12:7,
        II Corinthians 5:1,6-8).

JW - Since there is no continued existence of the soul after death, Jehovah's
     Witnesses who die will eventually be recreated from Jehovah's memory to
     inhabit His kingdom (Make Sure of All Things, 1953 ed., p. 311).
Bible - The resurrection is a returning of the soul back to its body (I Kings
        17:17-24, Luke 7:11-17), and will happen when Christ returns
        (Luke 24:36-43, Philippians 3:20-21, I Corinthians 15:39-54).

Doctrine of Salvation
---------------------
JW - Christ's death only purchased for mankind the earthly life and earthly
     blessings lost when Adam sinned (Studies in Scriptures, v5, p. 145).
Bible - Christ's death purchased present forgiveness of sins and blessings
        beyond this earthly existence (Ephesians 1:3-14).

JW - Christ's death only provides an opportunity for a person to attain eternal
     life through obeying God's laws.  There is no assurance of eternal life
     (Studies in Scriptures, v1, pp. 150,152).
Bible - Christ's death provides salvation from sin for all who accept by faith
        His sacrifice on their behalf (I Peter 3:18, Ephesians 2:4-9).  The
        eternal life given by grace to believers is also preserved by God
        (I John 5:11-13, John 6:39, 10:28-29).  God saves us because He loves us
        (John 3:16).

JW - Christ's blood shed on Calvary applies only to 144,000 elite JW's (the
     "Israel of God") and not for the "great crowd," the remainder of JW's
     (Aid to Bible Understanding, p. 389).
Bible - Christ died on behalf of all men (I Timothy 2:5-6, I John 2:2,
        II Corinthians 5:15, Hebrews 2:9) and said He is preparing a place for
        those who trust Him, and that place will be with Him (John 14:1-3).

JW - One can live in God's paradise only through (1) studying the Bible, (2)
     associating with Jehovah's Witnesses, (3) changing living habits from the
     former way to God's way (requiring JW baptism), and (4) being a preacher
     and a witness of God's kingdom (From Paradise Lost to Paradise
     Regained, pp. 242-249).
Bible - Salvation is offered only through trusting Jesus Christ as Savior (Acts
        4:10-12, 10:42-43, Romans 3:21-24).

JW - The doctrine of a burning hell where the wicked are tortured eternally
     after death is false (Make Sure of All Things, 1953 ed., pp. 154-55).
Bible - Hell is a place of everlasting torment for the unrepentant wicked
        (Revelation 20:11-15, Matthew 13:41-42,49-50, Mark 9:47-48).

JW - Claim to be the only true Christian Witnesses of Jehovah God.
Bible - We are all to be witnesses of Jesus Christ (Acts 1:8).

JW - The Bible can't be understood without their teachings and literature and
     that your only hope is to worship Jehovah God through the Watchtower
     Society.
Bible - Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will teach us (John 14:26), and Paul
        wrote, "...we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand"
        (II Corinthians 1:13).  Additionally, Jesus said, "I am the way, the
        truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through me"
        (John 14:6).

re .6

	Hi Bob,

	It's good to see that you haven't allowed prejudice to
	blind you to the value of these publications.

	I am a Jehovah's Witness and am more than willing to discuss
	offline any questions you may have.

	BTW these days, our publications are no longer distributed 
	with charge, well that is certainly true of the UK and the US.
	Anyone interested can ask next time a Jehovah's Witness calls.

	Phil.