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Conference yukon::christian_v7

Title:The CHRISTIAN Notesfile
Notice:Jesus reigns! - Intros: note 4; Praise: note 165
Moderator:ICTHUS::YUILLEON
Created:Tue Feb 16 1993
Last Modified:Fri May 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:962
Total number of notes:42902

832.0. "Soul and consciousness" by ASDG::HORTERT () Fri Dec 08 1995 16:16

    I have a curious question that I've been thinking about for years.
    I don't know if this has been discussed here before, but I'll give
    it a try.
    
    My mother was in a car accident 16 years ago that left her paralyzed
    on her left side and she suffered significant brain damage.  She has
    been in a nursing home ever since.  At first I thought she knew what
    had happened to hear, but over the years she has seemed to degrade
    and doesn't seem to be aware of her condition.  She has no long term
    memory and can't distinguish time.  She doesn't know who I am or
    that I'm married with kids even though I've sent pictures hundreds
    of time and they are on her wall.  She can perform daily functions
    like wheel herself around in her wheel chair. Pick up objects, feed
    herself, (all with her good side) etc.  But her mind is like a two
    year old.  
    
    My question is since she is not aware of what she is doing where
    is her soul?  She is 59 years old and I'm not sure how long she
    will live. and I know she believed in Christ
    before the accident, but I'm not sure (I was only 11) if she had
    given her heart to Christ.  My sister as well as the rest of us
    constantly pray for her.  But how can I be sure that she is saved?
    
    Rose
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832.1ICTHUS::YUILLEHe must increase - I must decreaseSat Dec 09 1995 16:4051
Hello Rose,

What a heart rending situation!

� My question is since she is not aware of what she is doing where is her soul? 

The soul stays with the body until death.  But the spiritual state if the soul 
is not dependent on physical ability.  Only the LORD knows the heart, and we 
know that the Judge of all the earth shall do right, in His great love for us.

� I know she believed in Christ before the accident, but I'm not sure (I was
� only 11) if she had given her heart to Christ.
� 				But how can I be sure that she is saved? 

We cannot always be sure - especially in such a difficult situation, but there 
may be some pointers.  For instance:
 - Is she able to give a positive response to a mention of the LORD?
 - Does she like - or accept - the Bible being read to her?
 - Is she able to accept you praying with her?

Even so, these can only be pointers.  If she does respond to these, it is
likely that the LORD is in her heart, but if she doesn't, it isn't a definite
'no'.  I have known some confused cases where, for instance, elderly and infirm
people have behaved quite out of character in extreme illness. 

We have a monthly service at an Old People's home, and very few of them can 
respond much at all.  But there's some I'm confident know the LORD, even 
though they can't do much more than smile!  One lady used to give quite a 
positive response, until last week when she had deteriorated a lot physically, 
and, I guess, mentally, because all she could do was to sit and ask in a 
querulous voice "And where do we go from here?".  All the explanations went 
right past her, until one man said "It depends whether you know the LORD - if 
you do, it's to heaven , buy if you don't, it has to be the other place."
She paused a moment, and then said "Well, yes - I suppose you are right!", as 
if she meant it.  Then she went back to asking her question....  

My parents know a (Christian) lady who has adopted or fostered a number of
children, many of them handicapped.  One she took in many years ago couldn't
speak, hear, see, or do anything that we would think essential to enjoy life. 
She only had the sense of touch, and would be quite alarmed if her hand was
touched by someone unexpectedly.  The lady cared for her (as well as the rest
of the large family) for many years, until the daughter died about a year ago -
in her 30s!  I wondered how one could let someone so handicapped know the
gospel, but I think the only way is to show them the love of the LORD, and
pray, leaving it in His hands.

The state of the soul is not dependent on what we can gauge.  But I can add my 
prayers to.

						God bless
								Andrew
832.2ASDG::HORTERTMon Dec 11 1995 09:2711
    Thanks for your prayers.  I only get to see my mother once a year or so
    since we live so far away (she's in Alaska), but for years when I see
    her I don't see the woman who used to yell at me to pick up my toys, or
    hug me when I fell down.  I see someone else. Someone that I don't
    know and doesn't know me.  It's hard, but I love her dearly.  I used
    to think (and sometimes still do) that the part of her I knew is asleep
    even though her eyes are open and will wake up someday.  
    
    Thanks
    Rose
    
832.3ICTHUS::YUILLEHe must increase - I must decreaseTue Dec 12 1995 06:5817
I think that's a great way to look on it - as her being asleep, waiting for 
the day to wake up.  And that day might be the one when she sees the LORD.

I like the verse where Zechariah is called for a vision, and it says:

   "Then the angel who talked with me returned and wakened me, as a man 
    is wakened from sleep"
							Zechariah 4:1

Even the most alert and aware of us are sleeping compared to what our 
awareness of eternity will be like.

Then (we) shall all know fully, even as (we are) fully known.  
						1 Corinthians 13:12


							Andrew