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Conference yukon::christian_v7

Title:The CHRISTIAN Notesfile
Notice:Jesus reigns! - Intros: note 4; Praise: note 165
Moderator:ICTHUS::YUILLEON
Created:Tue Feb 16 1993
Last Modified:Fri May 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:962
Total number of notes:42902

818.0. "can I have some ideas on how to parse Amos 3:6?" by FIEVEL::FILGATE (Bruce Filgate SHR3-2/W4 237-6452) Mon Nov 06 1995 08:38

Tripped across Amos 3:6 while doing a little reading, the obvious way
to parse the verse appears out of keeping with my understanding of God
and good/evil.

  Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be
  afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not
  done it?

The trumpet (sound of war) I can follow, the next piece `shall there be
evil...and the Lord hath not done it' I find to be a shocker.  The Lord 
does not do evil, is there another word that translates differently?  

thanks for any insight!
Bruce
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818.1God and Evil?MR2MI1::LONGDMon Nov 06 1995 10:216
I have the same issue with OT verses which seen to indicate that God "creates" evil, when there is
an abundance of Scripture which points to God as doing only good.  I think traditionally people would
see Amos 3:6 as God's "judgment".  An alternative translation is found in the footnotes of the
New English Bible, which may be more appropriate:  "If there is evil in a city, will not the Lord act?"

Don Long
818.2PAULKM::WEISSFor I am determined to know nothing, except...Mon Nov 06 1995 10:5520
There's an awful lot in the Old Testament (and the New, actually) about the
Lord bringing calamity on His people as a consequence of their disobedience. 
Read Deuteronomy 28, the whole chapter.  The first 14 verses speak of the
blessings the Lord will bestow on His people if they adhere to Him and His
word.  But verses 15-66 tell about all the curses that the Lord *will bring
upon* His people if they disobey and turn away from Him.  It's very extreme,
and very clear that the Lord Himself, by His own hand, will bring forth these
curses upon His people.

After this, in Dt 30, the Lord makes clear the choice which He sets before
His people: "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I
have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse.  So choose
life in order that you may live, you and your descendants."  Dt 30:19

The blessings of the Lord are something we all like to hear about.  But the
curse of the Lord for disobedience is something we'd rather ignore.  It's not
the kind of God we'd like, it's not the kind of God our culture thinks would
be nice.  But it's the God who IS, who calls Himself "I AM."

Paul
818.3ICTHUS::YUILLEHe must increase - I must decreaseMon Nov 06 1995 11:4218
Without looking up what word is used for 'evil' in the Amos 3:6 case, I
can't say whether what shade of meaning is attached, but I would imagine it 
to be 'evil' in terms of 'judgement' or 'punishment'.  The NIV (excuse me!) 
translates it as 'disaster' - "When disaster comes to a city, has not the 
LORD caused it?' - ie, 'Isn't it He Who has brought judgement incurred by 
the people's sin?' - as in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Isaiah 45:7 is a similar verse:

	"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, 
	 and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Again, the NIV uses "I bring prosperity and create disaster..." I remember
looking up the 'evil' in this context some years ago, and not seeing any
difference from the ordinary use of 'evil'.  I'm not sure that it had a
moral implication, which I would find difficult!

								Andrew
818.4it's one of those paradoxesCUJO::SAMPSONMon Nov 06 1995 19:2212
	Andrew,

	A quick look at Strong's bears out what you said.  The word
rendered "evil" or "disaster" can mean bad, evil (natural or moral),
adversity, affliction, calamity, displeasure, distress, grief, harm,
mischief, misery, sorrow, trouble, wickedness, wretchedness, wrong, etc.

	Whatever God does or permits, he does so (morally) righteously.
This can include a disaster that we (reasonably) call (naturally) "bad"
or "evil".

							Bob Sampson