Conference yukon::christian_v7

Be calm, no matter what may befall you.  Rest in Me.  Be patient, and let
patience have her perfect work.  Never think things are overwhelming,  How
can you be overwhelmed when I am with you?

Do not feel the strain of life.  There is no strain for My children.  Do you
not see I am a Master Instrument-maker?  Have I not fashioned each part?  Do
I not know just what it can bear without a strain?  Would I, the maker of so
delicate an instrument, ask of it anyting that could destroy or strain?

No!  The Strain is only when you are serving another master; the world, fame,
the good opinion of men - or carrying two day's burden on the one day.

Remember that it must not be.

It is the daily strivings that count, not the momentary heights.  The obeying
of My Will day in, day out, in the wilderness plains, rather than the
occasional Mount of Transfiguration.

Perseverance is nowhere needed so much as in the religious life.  The
drudgery of the Kingom it is that secures My intimate Friendship.  I am the
Lord of little things, the Divine Control of little happenings.

Nothing in the day is too small to be a part of My scheme.  The little stones
in a mosaic play a big part.

Joy in Me.  Joy is the God-given cement that secures the harmony and beauty
of my mosaic.

Be not afraid.  I am your God, your Deliverer.  From all evil, I will deliver
you.  Trust Me.  Fear not.

Never forget your 'Thank You.'  Do you not see it is a lesson?  You *must*
say 'Thank You' on the greyest days.  You *must* do it.  All cannot be light
unless you do.  There is grey-day practice.  It is absolutely necessary.

My death upon the Cross was not only necessary to save a world, it was
necessary, if only to train My disciples.  It was all a part of their
training:  My entering Jerusalem in triumph;  My washing the disciples' feet;
My sorrow-time in  Gethsemane;  My being despised, judged, crucified, buried.
Every step was necessary to their development - and so with you.

If a grey day is not one of thankfulness, the lesson has to be repeated until
it is.  Not to everyone is it so.  But only to those who ask to serve Me
well, and to do much for Me.  A great work requires a great and careful
training.

� God Calling 

Paul, this is / has been online complete, I believe in its own conference,
or as a text file. I'll see if I can find it.  I printed it out at the
time, some years back 

							Andrew

Your path is difficult - difficult for you both.  There is no work in life so
hard as waiting, and yet I say wait.  Wait until I show you My Will.  Proof
it is of My Love and of My certainty of your true discipleship, that I give
you both hard tasks.

Again, I say wait.  All motion is more easy than calm waiting.  So many of My
followers have marred their work and hindered the progress of My Kingdom by
activity.

Wait.  I will not overtry your spiritual strength.  You are both like two
persons, helpless on a raft in mid-opcean.  But lo! there cometh towards you
One walking on the waters, like unto the Son of Man.  When He comes and you
receive Him, it will be with you, as it was with My Disciples when I was on
earth, that straightway you will be at the place where you would be.

All your toil in rowing and all you activity could not have accomplished the
journey so soon.  Oh, wait and trust.  Wait, and be not afraid.

    The notes conference that lists every entry in the book is on
    MUNSBE::GOD_CALLING

Cool.

    I read Munsbe::Godcalling
    
    as
    
    Mustbe::Godcalling

    Here's a command file I pulled out of that conference years ago that
    when submitted, will send you the entry for the current day.  Simply 
    replace the "YOUR_NAME" with your VMS user name and submit it to batch
    ($ SUB whatever_you_called_it.com) and it will mail that day's entry to 
    you.  (make sure to keep the rest of the command identical, including the 
    quotes). There is also a resubmit command that will resubmit it 
    automatically at 3:30AM the next day, so each morning when you get to 
    work, you will have that day's entry waiting for you in mail!  (That 
    command is currently commented out, remove the "!" after the "$" to 
    enable it, if you do that, either uncomment the delete of junkjunk.tmp, 
    or make sure you purge occasionaly since that file tends to build up.  
    Also be forwarned, I had this running for ages and it hung up once for 
    some reason when accessing the notes file, hence the commenting out of the 
    automatic resubmit).
    
    Back to read only mode  ;-)
    
    Elaine
    
$! Command file to extract current day's God Calling entry
$! 
$! 
$set noon  				      !"NO ON" Dont check return codes 
$!
$ MonthList = "1january 2february 3march 4april 5may 6june " + -
	      "7july 8august 9september 10october 11november 12december "
$ Day = F$CVTime( F$Time(),, "Day")
$ Mth = F$CVTime( F$Time(),, "Month")
$ If Day .LE. 9  Then Day = Day * 1             !PB - get rid of leading 0
$ If Mth .LE. 9  Then Mth = Mth * 1             !PB - get rid of leading 0
$!
$ Mnmstr = F$Locate( Mth, MonthList ) + 1	! find month name start pos
$!
$ If Mth .GE. 10 Then Mnmstr = Mnmstr + 1	! add 1 for 2-digit mnt #'s
$!
$ MonthSubstr = F$Extract( Mnmstr, 12, MonthList )
$ Mnmend = F$Locate( " ", MonthSubstr )
$ Month = F$Extract( 0, Mnmend, MonthSubstr )
$!
$! Find the base note for today
$ Open/Write outfile Junkjunk.com
$ Write Outfile "$ Notes/noauto God_calling"
$ Write Outfile "Dir/title=""''month' ''day'"" /output=junkjunk.tmp"
$ Write Outfile "exit"
$ Close Outfile
$ @Junkjunk
$!
$! Scan the saved directory for the actual base note number
$ first_time = 1
$ open/read xdir junkjunk.tmp
$loop:
$ read/end_of_file=edit xdir dir_line
$ if f$loc("-----------------------",dir_line) .eq. f$len(dir_line) -
	then goto loop
$ if first_time
$ then
$    first_time = 0
$    goto loop
$ endif
$ read xdir dir_line
$ close xdir
$!
$ note_topic = f$elem(0," ",f$edit(dir_line,"TRIM,COMPRESS"))
$ open/write xdir Junkjunk.com
$ write xdir "$ notes/noauto God_Calling ", note_topic, ".LAST"
$!                                                                   ||||
$! SUBSTITUTE YOUR VMS USER-NAME IN THE FOLLOWING COMMAND LINE HERE  vvvv 
$ write xdir "forw/nocc/nohead/noedit/subj=""GC ''month' ''day'"" YOUR_NAME"
$!
$ write xdir "exit"
$ close xdir
$ @Junkjunk
$!
$! Delete/nolog/noconf junkjunk.*;*
$ Delete gc.log;*
$!
$! Submit/after="TODAY+1-03:30"/NOPRINT GC.COM  !Resubmit yourself tomorrow
$ Endit:
$ Exit

    Re: Note 714.9 by CHOWDA::ORR
    
>               -< a command file to send you the day's entry >-
    
    I _know_ that I completely rewrote this command procedure a year or two
    (or three) ago to be much more efficient and simple, and yet apparently
    I didn't save it in the GOD_CALLING notes file... who did I give it to?
    
    James

    I saw the conference MUNSBE::GODCALLING 3 years ago and was so
    impressed that I bought the book for myself and 3 friends. I find that,
    rather than reading it every day, God tells me on specific days to read
    it. When God does this it is always relevant to what I need at that
    time.

    Re: Note 714.10 by AUSSIE::CAMERON
    
>   I _know_ that I completely rewrote this command procedure a year or two
>   (or three) ago to be much more efficient and simple, and yet apparently
>   I didn't save it in the GOD_CALLING notes file... who did I give it to?
    
    Kym found me a copy, and the moderator of the GOD_CALLING notes
    conference has accepted the new procedure and says he has posted it
    into the conference.
    
    James

    I'm sorry to do this but..... It is my understanding that God Calling
    was received by the author from his Spirit guide from the next world
    and this was done via Automatic Writing.  I cannot remember where I
    read that but I do recal that my source was very reliable.  This should
    seng up warning bells to all Christians.  Remember to test all things. 
    It doesn't matter how nice something makes you feel or how holy and
    religious it may sound.
    
    Warm Regards,
    Janet Brown
    

    > Remember to test all things. 
    > It doesn't matter how nice something makes you feel or how holy and
    > religious it may sound.
    
    Amen!!
    
    dp
    
    

God does speak to us, and though it is very different from 'spirit guides'
and 'automatic writing,' I can easily see someone who believed that the
'dispensation' of God speaking directly to people ended with the apostles
could classify this as 'spirit guides' or some such thing.

I've read every day through the year up to today.  It's been very solid, very
Biblical, and totally devoted to Christ.  I do seem to remember once feeling
a bit uneasy about one phrase; I'll go back and see if I can find it.  I'll
keep a bit more of an eye out for discernment, but so far I find it to be
right on the money.

Paul

    Yes, I was trying to be polite.  Perhaps I didn't come across strongly
    enough.  I believe this book was CHANNELED and this involved at least 
    one DEMON if I understand Channeling correctly.  This is taken from
    Note #1 in MUNSBE::GOD_CALLING:
    
    	The authors, two women, chose to remain anonymous as "The Two 
    	Listeners", and the book was edited by A.J.Russell."
    
    This is taken from Note #2 in MUNSBE::GOD_CALLING:  [This is written 
    by one of "The Two Listeners"]
    
        In the Autumn of 1932, I was sitting in the lounge of an hotel when
        a visitor, quite unknown, crossed over and, handing me a copy of
        *For Sinners Only*, asked if I had read it.  I answered "No," and
        she left it with me.
    
        On returning home, I bought a copy for myself.
    
        I was curiously affected by the book and felt that I wanted
        all my friends to read it immediately, and actually made out a list
        of over a hundred people to whom I should have liked to have sent
        it.  Not being rich, this desire had to be content with two copies
        which I lent to various people, on whom it seemed to make little
        effect.
    
        A few months later I read it again.  It was then that there came
        a persistent desire to try to see whether I could get guidance such
        as A.J. Russell reported, through sharing a quiet time with the
        friend with whom I was then living.  She was a deeply spiritual
        woman with unwavering faith in the goodness of God and a devout
        believer in prayer, although her life had not been an easy one.
    
        I was rather sceptical, but, as she agreed, we sat down, pencils
        and paper in hand and waited.  This was in December 1932.
    
        My results were entirely negative.  Portions of texts came and
        went, then my mind wandered to ordinary topics.  I brought it back
        again and again, but with no success.  To this day, I cannot get
        guidance in this way alone.
    
        But with my friend a very wonderful thing happened.  From the
        first, beautiful messages were given to her by our Lord Himself,
        and every day from then these messages have never failed us.
    
        We felt all unworthy and overwhelmed by the wonder of it, and
        could hardly realize that *we* were being taught, trained and
        encouraged day by day by HIM personally, when millions of souls,
        far worthier, had to be content with guidance from the Bible,
        sermons, their Churches, books and other sources.
    
        Certainly we were not in any way psychic or advanced in spiritual
        growth, but just very ordinary human beings, who had had more
    	suffering and worry than the majority and who had known tragedy 
    	after tragedy.
    
        The tender understanding of some of Our Lord's messages was
        at times almost heart-breaking:  but His loving reproofs would
    	leave no hurt.
    
        Always, and this daily, He insisted that we should be channels
        of Love, Joy and Laughter in His broken world.  This was the Man
        of Sorrows in a new aspect.
    
        We, or rather I, found this command very difficult to obey,
        although to others it might have been simple.  To laugh, to cheer
        others, to be always joyful when days were pain-racked, nights
        tortured  by chronic insomnia, when poverty and almost insupportable 
    	worry were our daily portion, when prayer went unanswered and God's 
    	face was veiled and fresh calamities came upon us?
    
        Still came this insistent command to love and laugh and be
        joy-bringers to the lives we contacted.
    
        Disheartened, one of us would gladly have ceased the struggle
        and passed on to another and happier life.
    
        But He encouraged us daily, saying that He would not break the
        instruments that He intended to use, that He would not leave the
        metal in the crucible linger than was necessary for the burning
        away of the dross.  Continually He exhorted us not to lose heart,
        and spoke of the joy that the future held for us.
    
        Totally unexpected interpretations of His own words were given.
    
        An adverse verdict on seeing visions of Himself, which we had
        hitherto thought granted only to the saintliest and, most strongly
        stressed of all, the immense power given to *two* souls praying
        together in close union and at one in their desire to love and
    	serve Him.  As other have proved, "such a union may, in God's 
    	hands, accomplish such great things that there certainly will 
    	be inimical forces whose purpose it is to mar the friendship."  
    
    
    A few phrases here should shock you if you are a Bible-believing
    Christian.  I won't bother to point them out as I would like you to see
    them for yourself.  Remember, the devil can quote Scripture too.
    DO NOT BE DECEIVED!
    
    What I would suggest you do is call the Christian Research Institute 
    at 714-855-4428 and ask them if they have any information on this book.
    They may be able to supply some details for you that have faded from my 
    memory.  But quite frankly, this letter from one of "The Two Listeners"
    would be enough of a warning for me to leave it alone.  There are so
    many wonderful things for you to read every day that are Bible-based,
    not "channeled".
    
    Call me if you want to talk.  I am at DTN 225-7352.
    
    God Bless You and Protect You,
    Janet Brown

    Janet,
    
    I'll admit that that is why I stayed away from the book.  I'm not
    saying that God can not use people in this way but I didn't have
    a discernment one way or the other and chose to leave it alone.
    I think the messages in the book are nice messages but I would
    rather read from authors who I believe to be strong Bible believing
    Christians than those who would remain anonymous and that I know
    nothing about.
    
    Pam
    
    
    

Whatever experience the authors had is over; the book is complete.

Thus the entire book can be examined and determined to be sound in
doctrine.

This is precisely the way _all_ visions and other experiences must be
approached.  While they are happening, they must be viewed with skepticism.
Once they are over, once they have stopped, the information provided can
be examined and judged good or bad.

/john

I'm very careful.  I very much seek to use careful discernment with
*everything* of the spirit.  Yes, it is true that the demonic seeks to speak
to us and deceive us in the spiritual realm.  But God also speaks to us, and
I believe that He can still be heard.  Just because a woman heard messages
consistently does not in itself mean that she was channelling an evil spirit.

There's a large segment of christianity that has become very wary of
*anything* of the spirit, believing that the 'dispensation' of the spirit
ended with the time of the apostles.  But John did not say "don't believe any
spirits at all, they are not of God."  John said: "Do not believe every
spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God ... This is how
you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that
Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does
not acknowledge Jeuss is not from God." 1Jn 4:1-3

Like I said, I've read a third of the book.  It rings true, it matches
scripture, it glorifies Christ.  I would not, of course, put it on par with
scripture, I would not assert that there are not portions that are of the
flesh, there are not portions that are in error.  I haven't come across any
of note as of yet.  The book bears all the earmarks of those who have walked
deeply with the Lord.

If one of the phrases that disturbs you is "have to be content with guidance
from the Bible...," I understand both the phrase, and your disturbance.  I
understand the phrase, because without the Spirit's illumination, the Bible
is just dead words.  I can agree that I'm not content with guidance 'just'
from the Bible.  I seek the illumination of the Word by the Spirit, to guard
against the Word becoming a dry and dusty lawbook.  I also understand your
disturbance, because any 'illumination' that goes *against* the Bible's
guidance is not of God, so an implication that we need something 'beyond' the
Bible is a flag to be wary of.

I'll post here a couple of selections.  I believe that these acknowledge
fully that Christ came in the flesh, and acknowledge what He did for us.  I
don't believe that a demon could or would teach such things.

April 1:

    Do you not see, My children, that you have not yet learned all?
    Soon, very soon, you will have mastered your lesson, and then you
    will truly be able to do all things through Me and My Stregth.

    Did you not see it with My Disciples?  Timid, faithless followers,
    and then, so soon, themselves leaders, healers, conquerors, through
    Me.

    All knowledge was Mine, given Me of My Father, and Mine in manhood's
    years on earth.  You understand this, My children, I know you do.

    Thousands of My servants have gone to their betrayal and death,
    and others, who knew Me not, with no agony before it.

    Had I not been Son of God, bearing man's weight of sin, voluntarily
    bearing it until of My own free will--for that moment's horror,
    I was shut out from His sight with man, the sinner, for one short
    space--had I not been God, had not this been My suffering--then
    I was but a craven mortal.


April 4

    I am all-powerful and all-knowing and I have all your affairs in
    My Hands.  Divine efficiency as well as Divine power is being brought
    to bear on them.  All miracle-work is not the work of a moment as
    so often men imagine.

    My servant Peter was not changed in a flash from a simple fisherman
    to a great leader and teacher, but through the very time of
    faithlessness--through the very time of denial, I was yet making
    him all that he should be.  Impetuous spokesman as he always was,
    ready to lead the other disciples, Peter could never have been the
    after power he was, had he not learned his weakness.  No man can
    save, unless he understands the sinner.

    The Peter who was a mighty force for Me afterwards, who, more than
    all others, founded My church, was not even first the Peter who
    said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God," but the
    Peter who denied Me.  He who had tested My forgiveness in his moment
    of abject remorse, he could best speak of Me as the Savior.

    The Kingdom of Heaven can only be preached by those who have learned
    to prize the authority of its Kingdom.  A many-sided training My
    Apostles need.  Oh! joy.  Oh, rejoice.  I love you.  Not one test
    too much will I lay on you.

    I'm not familiar with this, but the excerpts here caught my attention.
    
>        My results were entirely negative.  Portions of texts came and
>        went, then my mind wandered to ordinary topics.  I brought it back
>        again and again, but with no success.  To this day, I cannot get
>        guidance in this way alone.
    
    Why not alone?  Why does God have to work through someone else instead
    of directly? 
    
>        encouraged day by day by HIM personally, when millions of souls,
>        far worthier, had to be content with guidance from the Bible,
>        sermons, their Churches, books and other sources.
    
    Sounds rather condescending to me.  Whether it is HIM personally or the
    Bible, it's still God's Word.
    
>        Certainly we were not in any way psychic or advanced in spiritual
    
    I don't believe a true Christian would use this term to describe
    themselves in any form.  Psychics are demonically influenced.
    
>        Always, and this daily, He insisted that we should be channels
>        of Love, Joy and Laughter in His broken world.  This was the Man
>        of Sorrows in a new aspect.
    
    A direct reference to channeling.  In addition, love and joy aren't new
    aspects of Christ at all.
    
>        We, or rather I, found this command very difficult to obey,
>        although to others it might have been simple.  To laugh, to cheer
>        others, to be always joyful when days were pain-racked, nights
>        tortured  by chronic insomnia, when poverty and almost insupportable 
>    	worry were our daily portion, when prayer went unanswered and God's 
>    	face was veiled and fresh calamities came upon us?
    
    People often confuse happiness and joy.  God never promised us
    happiness because it is temporary.  The uniqueness of His true joy is
    that it can be felt no matter the outward circumstances and it is
    permanent.  This joy of our salvation brings peace.  The world doesn't 
    understand it until they're saved.
    
    As for the excerpts that Paul included, see James 2:19 where it says,
    "...even the demons believe and tremble."
    
    Mike

You all ought to know by now that I'm not about to follow or accept anything
that doesn't match up to the Word.  Just ask Glen. :-)

Mike, most of the points you pull out seem to be grasping at straws, looking
at something with the assumption that it is bad, rather than letting it stand
on its own.  Like:

>>        Certainly we were not in any way psychic or advanced in spiritual
>    
>    I don't believe a true Christian would use this term to describe
>    themselves in any form.  

They specifically said they *weren't* psychic, so I don't understand your
comment.

Or:

>>        Always, and this daily, He insisted that we should be channels
>>        of Love, Joy and Laughter in His broken world.
>
>    A direct reference to channeling.

O come on.  The word "channel" existed long ago, long before the current
popular fad of demonic channelling came about.  Being a channel of the Lord's
Love is *precisely* what we ought to be doing, and bears not the slightest
relationship to demonic channelling.  This was written in 1935, and assuming
them to be true christians, the authors had almost certainly never heard of
the concept of demonic channelling. They simply used a word that described
the situation.  I've heard 'channel' used in the same way and context from
other people, before the current fad spoiled the word.  

>    As for the excerpts that Paul included, see James 2:19 where it says,
>    "...even the demons believe and tremble."

Yes, they believe, but they hate it.  I have heard of demons masquerading as
Christ and claiming the name, but I have never heard of any such case where
they proclaimed the necessity and efficiacy of Christ's crucifixion for the
world's sins.  I don't believe they would or could ever do such a thing.

Examine "God Calling" with a critical eye, as we would examine any work,
matching it up with the Word.  We should always do that.  But I believe the
accusations of 'channeling' have no basis other than an unbiblical
dispensationalist belief that it is impossible to hear from God in this age.

Paul

    
    I agree with Paul concerning whether these are "occult" references or
    not.  However, I am dubious about the value of these writings.  I'm
    also of the firm conviction that the Bible is the Word of God and that
    it is more than sufficient for our needs.  I do think that one of the
    woman's statements which seemed to elevate the value of her messages
    above the value of the Bible, is highly suspect.  
    
    jeff

Jeff,

Can you identify that one?  I pulled them to check though some years ago,
but never manged to get very far through.  My impression was much as
Paul's. I believe that their value is as the LORD lights them up to the
individual heart, and should be taken with care, and very much as
subservient to the authority of the Bible. 

� I'm also of the firm conviction that the Bible is the Word of God and
� that it is more than sufficient for our needs.

Agreed, though I don't think any of it is redundant.  However, I believe 
that the Bible clearly indicates that a mark of the day of grace is that 
God the Holy Spirit speaks personally to individuals - I would take verses
like John 14:26, 15:26, 16:13 as applying to all Christians, and not just
the apostles.  The Bible gives us general principles for life.  On top of
that, God also reveals to us specific direction for specific and individual
situations, as per Amos 3:7.  However, that's in the area of cessationalism,
which should have its own topic if we're wanting to discuss it. 

								Andrew 

    Paul, most Christians realize that psychics and anything associated
    with them are demonic.  Why would a Christian even use the term to
    describe themselves in any way, shape for form?  It doesn't wash with
    me.
    
    I agree with you on the channeling terminology though.  I forgot that
    this was written in ~1935 which was way before the term received its
    current connotation.  I automatically think 'New Age' when I hear it
    now.
    
    You may be right on the demonic reactions, but I would be extremely
    careful here.  I've witnessed possessed people that go ballistic just
    by you opening your Bible.  I've witnessed others that quote Scripture. 
    Satan even does this.  1 John 4 and the context of the entire Bible has
    to be the measuring stick.
    
    Mike

>    Paul, most Christians realize that psychics and anything associated
>    with them are demonic.  Why would a Christian even use the term to
>    describe themselves in any way, shape for form?

I don't understand how saying "certainly we were not in any way psychic"
equates for you to using the term 'psychic' to describe themselves.

If I said "certainly I am not in any way a horse," would that mean for you
that I had just described myself as a horse?

I don't get it.

Paul

 Ok, Trigger...thanks :-)

 
    Hi Andrew,
    
    Are you asking where I saw a statement which seemed to elevate her
    revelation over the Bible?  It is in the following paragraph where she
    says "had to be content with guidance from the Bible".  By implication
    she is saying that the revelations to her are somehow superior than the
    revelations of the Bible.  The "had to be content"is the clincher.  The
    very statement implies that some discontent is present in those who
    rely only on the Bible for guidance (along with every other
    traditionally authoritative entity, i.e. the church, etc.).
    
    jeff
       
>        We felt all unworthy and overwhelmed by the wonder of it, and
>        could hardly realize that *we* were being taught, trained and
>        encouraged day by day by HIM personally, when millions of souls,
>        far worthier, had to be content with guidance from the Bible,
>        sermons, their Churches, books and other sources.
    

Ask for the specific witness of the LORD in your heart as you read a few
entries.  Whether it's for or against His Word; whether it's for 'you', or
for others; whether it's consistent, or whether some parts need to be taken
and others left.  The Holy Spirit in your heart should highlight warnings 
where it departs from scriptural principles.  He should also indicate where 
something is or is not 'for you'.  A matter of listening.  Sometimes easier 
than others!

And I certainly agree that there can be very close imitations where it's 
hard to pin down precisely what's wrong, but it ultimately comes to 
light...  

Meanwhlie, 1 Thessalonians 5:20 is significant :

KJV : "Despise not prophesyings."
NIV : "Do not treat prophecies with contempt."

They're serious either way - accepted or rejected.  
Which makes their evaluation potentially very personally sensitive.

					God bless
							Andrew

Hi Jeff,

Yes, I'd agree that the wording there is totally inappropriate.  However
it's not a part of anything they would deem to be from the LORD.  It is 
just from their (uninspired!) introduction.  I would look in the body of 
the document, principally, to evaluate the source from the intent. 

In the introduction, it sounds as if they hadn't realised that what they
were receiving was not just for personal benefit.  I wouldn't put the
weight you do on that statement (noting too, that it includes other valid
sources of spiritual instruction).  It appears to me to be merely intended
to express the difference between general and personal instruction.  In
their overwhelmed state, they have overstated the case, and in so doing
have misrepresented the value of scripture.  Again, though, this is *their*
introduction, not their word of revelation.  If I saw such a view of
scripture in any of the words received, I would then seriously doubt the
whole. 

Thanks.

								Andrew

    Paul, why even bother with the association, whether directly or
    indirectly?

>    Paul, why even bother with the association, whether directly or
>    indirectly?

Precicely because of the reaction portrayed in this note, that if they heard
any word in this day and age, that it must be 'psychic,' or 'channelled,' or
in some other way evil.

BTW, I also agree with the inappropriateness of the wording of 'had to be
content with the Bible."  I think Andrew expressed my view on that pretty
well.

Paul

| <<< Note 714.21 by PAULKM::WEISS "For I am determined to know nothing, except..." >>>

| You all ought to know by now that I'm not about to follow or accept anything
| that doesn't match up to the Word.  Just ask Glen. :-)

	He speaketh the truth!!!!! :-)  Well, his interpretation of what the
Word is saying anyways.... :-)




Glen

    re .28
    
>Meanwhlie, 1 Thessalonians 5:20 is significant :

>KJV : "Despise not prophesyings."
>NIV : "Do not treat prophecies with contempt."
    
    You know, it's just as easy to read Paul's final greetings to the
    Thessalonians here as an admonishment not to hold the prophecies of old
    in contempt.
    
    dp

    I believe that with all of the eastern mysticism, new age nonsense and
    psychic fairs going on across our nation, we Christians have been
    frightened into a stale reality of Christianity.
    
    Do you believe that God uses your Pastor to preach His word and deliver
    messages to the congregation?
    
    How do you perceive your Pastor gets his messages?
    
    And why on earth, couldn't these two women have had the same
    experience.  Don't let terminology mess with you, our God is more
    powerful and more real than any of the gods of the aforementioned
    belief systems.
    
    

    "God Calling" I have been reading for two years now and find much
    inspiration from it. I have had many words (mostly comforting words)
    from the Lord by just opening it at random.
    Without question the Bible is the word of God, but I feal that God is
    giving us additional messages, personal ones as a loving father does,
    sometimes in the form of pictures, sometimes in visions and some
    personnal appearences. 
    I know people ( 1 in Austria, 2 in Slovakia, 2 in Australia) whom I am 
    in regular contact, who have personal appearences from Jesus and or 
    His Mother, telling us how the world is in a terrible state and how 
    much our prayers are necessary. These messages could not have been
    written two thousand years ago.
    
    God is calling each one of us personnaly.
    
    Blessings on you
    
    Peter

    As a conservative Baptist, I have to admit to treading rather carefully
    in this arena.  But the more I see Psychic fairs being a normal
    occurance and paganism being portrayed as good, while Christianity is
    portrayed as lunacy, I am convinced that God who is over all needs a
    people willing to hear his messages as in the days of the Bible.
    
    Tell me what would each of us think if Paul lived today?

	I'd think "Boy, that Paul is awfully old!"

	;-)

    Karen...I read this as, "Boy, that Paul is awefully odd!"
    
    whoops!
    
    Pam

    Good one, Karen.  Thanks for the chuckle.

    
    Paul, in my mind, would be the greatest Christian leader in the world
    were he alive today.
    
    jeff

 Yep, but he'd still be old ;-)

    ...and probably still in jail 8^(
    
    dp
    

 no kidding.  He'd fall into the hatemongering, intolerant religious right
 fanatic category.




 Jim

    Paul was not a man of compromise and watered-down words.  He was an
    equal-opportunity offender ;-)  He'd not only offending the people of
    the world today with all this politically-correct nonsense, but I bet
    he'd have much of the church re-thinking their status in Christ as
    well.
    
    Mike

 Amen

    Paul told it like it was, but he did it in love.  In the 6th chapter of 
    1 Corinthians, rather than condemning the Corinthians for their immoral
    lifestyle, he reminded them who they are - washed, sanctified,
    justified in the name of the Lord (1 Cor 6:11).  He reminded them that
    their bodies were members of Christ (vs 15) and that they were His 
    (vs 20).  
    
    He could have called them dirty, rotten, no good sinners, but instead
    he helped them to understand (or remember) who they were.
    
    Bing

see .45!

    Paul had his moments though.  Like when he said he didn't want John
    Mark around because he chickened out the first time.  Fortunately he
    gave him a second chance.

| <<< Note 714.43 by CSLALL::HENDERSON "Learning to lean" >>>


| no kidding.  He'd fall into the hatemongering, intolerant religious right
| fanatic category.

	Why is it ok for certain people who are christians to be pushed away by
Christians and it's ok, yet if other people do the same thing, it's not? The
example for the latter is what Jim wrote above, and an example of the present
day Christians pushing away would be Koresh. 

If more words would make a difference, then I'd answer, Glen.

But they don't seem to, so I won't.

Paul

 I'm afraid that one just zinged right passed me, Glen.





Jim

    That Paul, what a card.  Even if the context is correct, I'd say he's
    my hero!

	Patricia, you forgot about Paul saying what he is about to say isn't
from God, but his own opinion.

  Sigh...don't you ever get tired of bringing that one up?




 Jim

    Glen, I think some of us are a little unchristian with our remarks and
    I think you do deserve an answer or no answer but not irritating
    remarks. I confess I normally ignore most of what you write. As answer
    to your question I would like to say that there are many differences of
    understanding from one denomination to the other and most of us are
    aware of these and try to avoid subjects that can irritate another.
    There are others that enjoy a fruitful discussion and some that cannot
    tolerate a deviation from the way they understand things to be and
    react accordingly.
    I am happy to believe that I receive the true body and blood of Jesus 
    daily, transformed through the Holy Spirit. I can also understand why
    some people don't believe that.
    I am also very aware that Jesus lives in us today and speakes to us as He 
    did His Disciples and I am also content to let others believe that the
    words of 2 thousand years ago are the last words of God.
    Let's respect others opinions!
    
    Glen May God Bless and guide your thoughts
    
    Peter 

Paul's battle with circumcision was apparently the primary focus of the
legalism party.   Although the whole question was escalated to get a
management decision in Acts 15 (the council at Jerusalem), the principle
still needed covering in detail in Galatians.  Following this, Paul had 
many enemies aomngst orthodox Jews, who rated the law as a prerequisite for 
Christianity.  I can just see his heart sink in Acts 21:20, when, after 
hearing Paul's trip report, the Christians at Jerusalem respond with 
  "You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all 
   of them are zealous for the law."
 - Especially when they continued : 
  "They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the 
   Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their 
   children or live according to our customs..."

They had clearly overlooked the evidence of his personal circumcision of
Timothy, in Acts 16:3, as an uncircumcised Jew and a Christian. 

And of course, this gets followed by the riot and trumped up charges
against Paul which end up with his imprisonment in Rome after appealing to
Caesar. 

So the law / circumcision issue was a hot potato for Paul whenever he came
into contact with people who knew him via rumours, rather than understanding
the teaching he had been given. 

That 'cut off from the law' link sounds interesting, Leslie - I'll be 
interested to see your conclusions there!


Meanwhile, the problem is now perceived the other way round.  Many Jews
would see Christianity as so incompatible with Judaism, that they would
consider 'Jewish Christian' to be an anachronism, and for a Jew to become a
Christian to be the moral reversal of circumcision.  Obviously I do not
believe this, but the misconception has arisen from 2 millennia of
persecution, where Jesus' name has been falsely used in justification to do
something totally contrary to all the teachings of the New Testament.

God gave us a 'Paul' to pen the epistles, with the inspired words of God to
be available for all the day of grace.  If He needed another one today, for
the specific conditions as we approach the end times, He would raise one up.
Though He might not call him 'Paul', in case we got confused.
He might even call him 'Mike'... ;-) 

Appropos the topic ... I think that the above is the only tenuous link with
'God Calling' - we seem to have wandered into another topic entirely.... 

					God bless
							Andrew 

| <<< Note 714.57 by CSLALL::HENDERSON "Learning to lean" >>>


| Sigh...don't you ever get tired of bringing that one up?

	Jim, do you ever get tired of quoting from the Bible? 

	Peter, nice note!

    RE .58
    
    I agree with Glen.  Your note was a nice note.
    
                                 Patricia

 Several notes dealing with Galatians 5:12 have been moved to topic 722.



 Jim