Conference yukon::christian_v7

Rose,

I believe that you can trust someone with 20-20 foreknowledge.
You understand the risks involved in trusting someone and determine
to trust them anyway.  You don't have to pander to wolves, but 
we can recognise that there are times when our 20-20 sighted trust
in someone up front can be life changing.

I don't think we should be foolish; we are also good stewards of
what God provides.  But we can be wise as serpents and innocent as
lambs.

Mark

    Rose,

    Welcome to the Christian notesfile.  I hope you will find a
    warm welcome and good discussion here.

    I wonder if there is some middle ground or balance in the 
    issue you and your husband have been discussing?  On the one
    hand, we need to be strong enough on the inside to allow ourselves
    to be vulnerable on the outside - to me this means having the
    strength in (or of) God at the core of our being, so that we
    can reach out in loving-kindness to others, form relationships,
    and interact with other people on a level that is healthy and
    whole.  We also need to use our minds and be wise in what and 
    whom we believe, and what we do.  This comes from both experience
    and analyzing what we hear and see, comparing it with other things
    we know and asking God for wisdom, and studying what He has revealed
    to us through the Bible and the life of Yeshua.  This is not to
    say that we should walk around with our paranoia glasses on, certain
    everyone is out to "get" us.

    Mmmmmm, this discussion suggests an interesting topical Bible study 
    to me - on wisdom and loving-kindness/trust.  I am currently leading 
    the Bible study that meets in our home (we rotate the leadership).
    We're studying Proverbs 31.  In this poem parable which describes the
    merits of a woman of valor, there is much discussion of strength,
    loving-kindness, and wisdom.  In particular, the verse I was working
    on this morning, Proverbs 31:26 is about how she speaks with wisdom,
    and how the torah of loving-kindess is on her tongue.  In this simple
    statement there is a depth of meaning that can be mined - especially
    by looking at other things the Bible has to to say about both.

    Leslie

Hello Rose,  An interesting one!

Personally, I'm with you.  Rather trust and be hurt (guess I can take it - 
I know the risk!) than distrust, and risk hurting someone else.  Matthew 
18:21-22 (how many times to forgive) wouldn't be needed if we weren't to 
trust.

� "do not be fooled by wolves in sheep clothing"
Matthew 7:15 is warning of cults and their teaching.  It refers to doctrine
rather than to general dealings.  ie - be careful of what you accept as 
part of you, to mould your spirit.  Test against the Word, like the Bereans 
did in Acts 17:11 - and that was checking out what Paul said!  Not that
there is distrust, but that the Word of the LORD is so important it has to 
be double-checked.  Note that the teacher of truth - Paul in this case - was 
delighted to find them checking up and taking it in.  Only the false 
teacher would be irritated...

Matthew 10: concerns sending the twelve out to teach.  In verse 16, they 
are warned to be shrewd (wise) as snakes, and innocent as doves.  Yes, 
trust people, but not with your soul.

You can risk anything that does not matter - material goods, physical 
danger, anything temporal.

You cannot risk anything that does matter - eternal integrity.

Where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. (Matthew 6:21)

If things matter to you more than people, you lose out both ways....

If the LORD is your protection, nothing can hurt you, because nothing can 
take away your treasure (1 Peter 1:4).

Where man is his own defence, fear is the result...

We have to distinguish between instruction about doctrine - individual, or 
to the elders in looking after the flock under their care, where everything 
has to be carefully tested; and instruction about dealing with people in the 
world, where we should be openhanded and generous, without counting the 
cost.  The curious parable of the shrewd manager, in Luke 16 illustrates 
this, though it's not the way we'd work with DEC ;-)

							Andrew

Rose, it did just occur to me that your husband has betrayed his principle....

The greatest trust you can put in anyone humanly is to marry them ... ;-)


								Andrew

    Well that's a whole other can of worms.
    
    Rose

    My simplistic take on this:
    
    Your statements are a function of love.  Christ commanded that we love
    one another, but not necessarily trust one another.  Christ did
    indicate that we should trust him.
    
    You husband's statements are a function of stewardship.  Lack of trust
    in false prophets, the wolves in sheeps clothing, comes from a
    knowledge of the truth revealed in the Word.  We obtain true wisdom
    from time spent in the Word, searching the scriptures.
    
    We extend love to these false prophets, and pray for them, that they
    might come to a knowledge of their sin and repent.  We do not, however,
    trust in them.
    
    dp
    

    The paradox in my opinion is to trust in others is to trust in God.  to
    trust in God is to trust in others.  If we choose to trust there are
    only two possible outcomes.  1.  That which  choose to trust in will be
    trustworthy.  2.  That which we choose to trust in will not be trust
    worthy.  we will be hurt.  God will help us to learn from our hurt and
    act approprately and recover and be a better person as a result of it.
    
    To choose to not trust another means, we deny that person the benefit
    of our trust, and we don't trust that God will take care of us if
    things don't work out the way we want.
    
    This does not mean blind trust.  It does mean be willing to take the
    risk so the other may prove themselves trust worthy.  In taking that
    risk we also trust that we are in God's loving hands.
    
                                     Patricia
    
                             Patricia

    
    The heart of a child is to trust. The heart of the mature is
    wisdom. Are we not to have the heart of both?
    
    We are not blind when our eye is light and our body is filled
    with light.  We wish to know, do we trust or do we not trust but
    this is a question of fear and not love.  We would not hesitate
    to trust if we had no fear.  But we must protect our life and not
    surrender it so we fear anything or anyone that will threaten that
    life.
    
    But if we are dead and it is Christ that lives in us, wether to trust
    or not is no longer an issue. There is no fear, only love.
    
    What joy there is to be free from fear.  No one can deceive you, no
    one can lead you astray for love does not change and there is only
    one love. God is love.  Whosoever is of love is of God and whosoever
    does not love is not of God.  There is no fear in love and the
    question of trust is a question of fear. Love never fails, it always
    trusts.
    
    Robert

	Jeremiah 17:5-10

5	Thus says the LORD:
	"Cursed is the man who trusts in man
	  and makes flesh his arm,
	  whose heart turns away from the LORD.

6	He is like a shrub in the desert,
	  and shall not see any good come.
	He shall dwell in the parched places of the wilderness,
	  in an uninhabited salt land.

7	"Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD,
	  whose trust is the LORD.

8	He is like a tree planted by water,
	  that sends out its roots by the stream,
	and does not fear when heat comes,
	  for its leaves remain green,
	and is not axious in the year of drought,
	  for it does not cease to bear fruit."

9	The heart is deceitful above all things,
	  and desperately corrupt;
	  who can understand it?

10	"I the LORD search the mind
	  and try the heart,
	to give to every man according to his ways,
	  according to the fruit of his doings."

    Rose, sorry I'm late with my reply.
    About the same time as you were writing this note I had the following
    experience. I was in Rome and a begger came to me asking for money. My
    usual response is not that of a wealthy christian, but this time I
    asked the Lord "should I give so that He can buy more alcohol?"... I
    disbelieved that this begger was in need...The Lord answered "Your Job
    is to give, Leave it to me how I guide him to spend the money".
    Sometimes we do not trust people because it does not suit us to, my
    advise is "ask the Lord in each case what He wants or for His protection
    against being misused"
    
    God Bless 
    
    Peter
    

Thanks Peter,

    I think that's an area that needs a lot of care and wisdom.  It's good 
to be reminded that He knows and cares, and can honour our intent in 
giving, regardless of the actual actions of the recipient.

								Andrew