[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference yukon::christian_v7

Title:The CHRISTIAN Notesfile
Notice:Jesus reigns! - Intros: note 4; Praise: note 165
Moderator:ICTHUS::YUILLEON
Created:Tue Feb 16 1993
Last Modified:Fri May 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:962
Total number of notes:42902

681.0. "The Hour of Judgment" by YIELD::BARBIERI () Thu Feb 23 1995 16:24

    Hi Brothers and Sisters,
    
      The following is from a sermon by my best friend.  He gave
      me permission to put it into writing and enter it here.
    
      Its on judgment and especially on the last day judgment that
      takes place.  My motivation for entering this is some discussion
      that has taken place in Topic #551, but, a more encompassing
      motivation is simply wanting to exalt and clarify the character
      of our loving God.
    
      I really hope all listeners in this Conference give it a prayerful
      read.  I chopped it up so it wouldn't be too difficult.  All replies
      are under 100 lines and most are under 70.
    
      By the way, please excuse the caps for the word 'judgment' from 
      the last entry.  It was an accident...and an eyesore!
    
                                                    God Bless,
    
                                                    Tony
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
681.1The Judgment: Good News!!YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:2557
Revelation 14:6 

6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having
the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth
-- to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people --

This angel has the everlasting gospel to give those who dwell on
the earth.  He is come to give the gospel.  And the angel says

Revelation 14:7 
7 saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for
the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made
heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water."

Here is the gospel: "the hour of His judgment is come."  Would
you talk about the judgment if someone were to come to you and
ask, "What's the good news?" (and that's what the gospel means -
good news.)  Is that what you'd say?  But the angel here clearly
says the judgment is good news. He comes with good news saying
here is the gospel.  judgment is here and that is good news. 
For most people that wouldn't sound like good news - depending
on your under- standing of the judgment.  Most people aren't
real anxious to meet their Judge.

Exodus 2 gives a good glimpse at what the Jews concept of their
Judge was:

Exodus 2:11-14 
11 Now it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that
he went out to his brethren and looked at their burdens. And he
saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his brethren. 12 So he
looked this way and that way, and when he saw no one, he killed
the Egyptian and hid him in the sand. 13 And when he went out
the second day, behold, two Hebrew men were fighting, and he
said to the one who did the wrong, "Why are you striking your
companion?" 14 Then he said, "Who made you a prince and a judge
over us? Do you intend to kill me as you killed the Egyptian?"
So Moses feared and said, "Surely this thing is known!"

What was his concept of the work of judgment?  "Are you going to
stand as my judge?  Are you going to destroy me?"

Is the hour of judgment this hour of condemnation and terror? 
Is that the hour of judgment?

Thats what its mostly been seen as.  People have had nightmares
over the judgment, countless nightmares.  Those who have studied
the endtime events especially, kind of along with the time of
trouble.  

The judgment.  How do we look at the judgment?  The angel
clearly says the judgment is good news.  Good news.

Well, we are going to look at the judgment tonight and I pray
that as we do we will see it more clearly.  Lets look at the
judgment.
681.2Jesus Throws A Wrench...YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:2553
The first  thing I want to say and we don't need to look at any
texts and that is that God is our judge.  Thats consistent
throughout the Bible.  God is our judge.  Psalm 50:6 is one
example.

But in another place we are told (actually in a handful of
places) that Jesus is our judge.  All judgment has been
committed to who?  The Son, Jesus.  John chapter 5 tells us
that.  You see in many places you see the Father seated in the
throne.  Daniel ch. 7 the throne room scene, Revelation ch. 4
the throne room scene.  The Father is in the throne, but Jesus
comes and sits down in that throne and all judgment is given to
Him.  Romans 2:16 says

16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus
Christ, according to my gospel.

Christ is the agent in judgment, quite clearly.  Now Jesus
throws a real wrench into this.  Turn to John ch. 12.  The
Father turns and says, "No, the Son is going to judge" and Jesus
says in John ch. 12:

46 "I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes
in Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if anyone hears My
words and does not believe, I do not judge him; for I did not
come to judge the world but to save the world.48 "He who rejects
Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him --
the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.

Now I know what you're thinking.  Jesus is the word so He's kind
of fooling them here.  He's saying, "Look if any man hears my
word and does not believe, I do not judge him.  The word will
judge him."  And then in the last day they get there and Jesus
says, "Surprise!  I am the word.  I am going to judge you!" 
Thats not what He's saying.  Jesus says here...and is He talking
about believers or unbelievers?  Unbelievers.  If anyone hears
my word and does not believe.  Unbelievers.  Very clearly.  "I
will not judge Him.  There will be a process that takes place,
but I am not the source of condemnation."  In John 8:16 it says,
"I judge no one."  Well, now wait a minute.  Over here very
clearly you judge and over here very clearly you say you don't
judge.  Boy, here's one of those contradiction things that we
seem to see in the Bible.  Which is it?  Which is it?  Does He
judge or does He not judge?

Is it possible there is more than one kind of judgment?  Is it
possible there is more - I know He's not schizophrenic!  Is it
possible there's more than one type of judgment, one is entirely
good and holy and in harmony with the character of God and the
very work of Jesus Christ and one is entirely evil and totally
out of harmony with God and His character and He says, "I will
wash My hands of that.  I won't do it."
681.3A Type of Judgment God Has No Part In (1 of 3)YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:2647
What is the judgment all about?  Well, I'm going to suggest to
you there are two works of judgment and one - yes- Christ washes
His hands of and He will not touch.  Lets see it how it happens
in the lives of men because people reflect one or the other. 
They're drinking one of two cups we're told.  Go to Matthew ch.
7.  Lets look at it in the lives of people who do a work of
judgment that is entirely evil and see if this is not what Jesus
is washing His hands of.  

Matthew 7:1.  Remember Matthew 7 in the sermon on the mount is
all on judgment.

1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.

Well, what kind of judgment is that?  What do You mean don't
judge?  What is judgment?  

Verses 3 and 4:
3 "And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but
do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 "Or how can you say
to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and
look, a plank is in your own eye?

Jesus says that if you and I sit around looking at one another
trying to come up with something, trying to see something,
investigating (even if you will), searching to come up with
something that would condemn somebody and therefore where in our
mind we can figure that that person is not on the road to the
kingdom. That work is entirely evil.  A work of condemnation, a
work of accusation, a work of searching my brothers and sisters,
watching their behaviors to see what they're up to.  

Somebody said to me the other day that we tend to be more
interested in what people are up to rather than how they are. 
We tend to look at each others behaviors and then we see
something and we go, "Aha!"  Thats entirely an evil work. 
Entirely.  And Jesus says, "You'd better not get involved with
that." You'd better wash your hands of that because you need to
let this mind be in you which is in Him and apparently He has
washed His hands of that.  Christ is not doing a work of
condemnation.  God so loved He gave His only begotten Son that
whoever believes shall not perish, but have everlasting life. 
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the
world, but that the world through Him might be saved.  Jesus
said, "I did not come to judge, I came to save.  I did not come
to condemn, I came to save."  
681.4A Type of Judgment God Has No Part In (2 of 3)YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:2694
Lets look at another passage that shows some folks doing a work
of condemnation.  I want you to see that those that sit looking
for someone to condemn is an entirely evil work and is not
something that God's saints should be involved in.  Luke ch. 6. 
"Now it happened on the second sabbath"  All these things seem
to be happening on the sabbath.  It happened on the second
sabbath after the first that He went to the grain fields and His
disciples...and we know what happens.  They pick it and have a
debate over it, but drop down to verse 6

Luke 6:6-7 
6 Now it happened on another Sabbath, also, that He entered the
synagogue and taught. And a man was there whose right hand was
withered. 7 So the scribes and Pharisees watched Him closely,
whether He would heal on the Sabbath, that they might find an
accusation against Him.

They searched, they hunted, they dug to come up with anything
they could do to condemn.  That sounds like Daniel doesn't it? 
Remember the story of Daniel when they passed the law?  Then
they sat in the bushes waiting for him to watch and open his
window.  A hunting searching work.  Turn with me to Luke ch. 11.
Go to the end of the chapter.  Here's another one.

Luke 11:52 
52 "Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of
knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were
entering in you hindered."

What kind of lawyers do you think those were?  Prosecuting
attorneys or defense attorneys?  I think these guys are
prosecuting attorneys.  

Luke 11:53,54
53 And as He said these things to them, the scribes and the
Pharisees began to assail Him vehemently, and to cross-examine
Him about many things,

There's a beautiful courtroom scenario.  Legal language.  They
cross examined Him.  What happens when a lawyer cross examines? 
He tries to come up with anything he can to pin that person
down.  And that's exactly whats happening here.  

54 lying in wait for Him, and seeking to catch Him in something
He might say, that they might accuse Him.

This may come as a humbling surprise to us, but in the great
controversy between God and Satan you and I are not as big a
fish as we think.  Satan's big goal is not to bring you and I
down.  It really isn't.  We're small fish in the frying pan. 
Satan's goal is the throne of God. And we are just pawns.  We
are not just pawns in the eyes of God, but we are just pawns in
the eyes of Satan.  Take a look at John ch. 8 and I think you'll
see it again.  John ch. 8, a very familiar story that gives us
some insight into the judgment scenario.

John 8:3-4 
3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught
in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said
to Him, "Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very
act.

Lo and behold, they just happened to be walking by her window at
the time this was going on and caught her.  Well, they had set
her up.  They had set her up, grabbed her, and thrown her at the
feet of Jesus.  

John 8:5-6 
5 "Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be
stoned. But what do You say?" 6 This they said, testing Him,
that they might have something of which to accuse Him. 

You and I are just avenues to get to Christ and the reason Satan
combs and hunts and comes up with anything He can to flaunt in
the face of God is because He's trying to paint Him in a corner.
 We'll glance at that toward the end, but I want you to see that
this work of accusation and condemnation - hunting, digging to
condemn is not what God's about.  In fact as I see it in this
verse, He's on the other side doing all He can to save.  He's
not right there with them doing a work of condemnation.  Because
it says down a little bit later.  What does Jesus say?

John 8:10-11 
10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the
woman, He said to her, "Woman, where are those accusers of
yours? Has no one condemned you?" 11 She said, "No one, Lord."
And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no
more."

Was she a sinner?  Absolutely, but He said "I do not condemn
you.  Thats not my work.  It is not my work.  Romans chapter 8,
"It is God who justifies, not God who condemns."  Christ came to
save.  It is a very consistent principle.  Jesus did not come to
condemn, He came to save.
681.5A Type of Judgment God Has No Part In (3 of 3)YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:2747
If Jesus were condemning us, if God were doing a work of
condemnation we'd all be history.  Because Psalms 130 says, "O
Lord if you should mark iniquitues, who should stand?"  If You
were to mark iniquities, who would stand?  The answer's quite
clear.  Nobody.  Its by God's mercy that we are not consumed,
Lamentations 3.  The fact that my neighbor may have sealed his
probation and could be cursing God and still living.  Why? 
Because he is benefitting from God's mercy.  God is not
condemning him.  It is not God who's condemning him.  "God was
in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing our
trespasses against us."  Not condemning us, it says.  He is not.
 
1 Corinthians 1:13 says, "Agape thinks no evil."  Love thinks
no evil.  In my margin, its interesting, it says, "Love does not
keep any account of evil."  Thats my margin.  It keeps no
account of evil.  God is not condemning.  Thats not Christ's
work.  He did not come to condemn, He came to save, it says. 
Thats not His work.  In fact, here lets just look at two more
verses.  Lets look at Isaiah 40.

Isaiah 40:1-2 
1  "Comfort, yes, comfort My people!" Says your God. 2  "Speak
comfort to Jerusalem, and cry out to her, That her warfare is
ended, That her iniquity is pardoned; 

Past tense.  Do you think Israel in the days of Isaiah was an
obedient son or daughter?  No.  Go to Isaiah 44.  Look at
another one.  Isaiah 44.

Isaiah 44:22 
22  I have blotted out, like a thick cloud, your transgressions,
And like a cloud, your sins. Return to Me, for I have redeemed
you." 

Past tense.  God is entirely reconciled to man.  Entirely.  God
has nothing against man.  God is entirely reconciled to man and
if we are lost, it is not because God is condemning us.  Because
we have resisted and rejected and thrown away the salvation He
has already bought and given to us.  It is ours by right.  It is
our birthright.  It belongs to us.  That's why its past tense in
this passage.  Esau is an example of salvation.  The birthright
is already his.  He had to trade it away for a bowl of pottage. 
God has pardoned the human race.  He has nothing against
anybody.  He just stands with His arms open and says, "Please
come to Me all you who labor and are heavy laden.  Please just
come to Me.  But, I have nothing against you and I never will"  
681.6The Source of Condemnation (1 of 2)YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:2782
Well, if thats the condition of God, then where does all our
condemnation come from?  Who is it thats condemning us?  Well,
we've just looked at Lucifer.  He's obviously condemning us.  We
looked at it in the lives of people who follow him, but we know
Lucifer's accusing us, right?  

Revelation chapter 12 he is called what?  The accuser of the
brethren, thats right.  The accuser of the brethren.  Zechariah
ch. 3.  You can go look at it there.  And there's Joshua the
high priest and Jesus is standing there and Lucifer's standing
there and Lucifer is the one accusing.  Satan is the accuser in
Zechariah chapter 3.  

God is not condemning us.  Satan condemns us, thats true.  But,
its really our sin that condemns us, not God.  Thats why the law
condemns us.  The law condemns us.  Very clearly.  Go to John
ch. 5.  John ch. 5 shows us how the law condemns us.  Jesus is
talking to the Jews.  

John 5:45 
45 "Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is
one who accuses you -- Moses, in whom you trust. 

How could Moses accuse them?  Because Moses gave them the law. 
Its the law that condemns.  The law condemns.  Moses gave them
the law.  He spoke to them the law and its the law that
condemns.  Go to Romans ch. 7.  I think you'll see this is
rather consistent.

Romans 7:7-8 
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the
contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For
I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said,
"You shall not covet." 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the
commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart
from the law sin was dead.

"Sin, taking oppurtunity by the commandment," what does he mean
by that?  The commandment comes, is manifested and it exposes
your sin.  And your sin here is what causes all this condemna-
tion thats going on in Paul's mind.  Up in verse 24 where he
says "O wretched man that I am," whats the source of all this
condemnation?  His sin.  The law just exposes the sin.  The sin
is the source of condemnation.  Thats why he says in verse 11:

Romans 7:11 
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and
by it killed me. 

Go up to verse 10.

Romans 7:10 
10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to
bring death.

The commandment.  God shows us His law, His law points out our
sin and the sin is what is bringing all this guilt upon us. 
This crushing load.  Sin is the source of the condemnation.  Go
to Romans chapter 3.

Romans 3:19 
9 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who
are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the
world may become guilty before God.

What is the source of the guilt and the condemnation?  The law. 
Is the law really the source?  No, not the law.  The law exposes
your sin and the sin is the source of condemnation.  Go to verse
20.

Romans 3:20
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified
in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The law exposes the sin and its the sin that condemns.  Thats
what takes place.  The law exposes the sin and its the sin that
condemns.  Its our own hearts that condemn us, 1 John 3:20,21. 
Our own heart condemns us.  Romans chapter 2, I think its in
verse 14,15 in there, Paul says our own thoughts accuse us. 
Your own thoughts, your own sin.  All God has to do is bring in
the law.  
681.7The Source of Condemnation (2 of 2)YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:2841
But, lets use a little looser translation for the law.  Because
when Moses gave the law, really, the first five books of Moses
are the law, aren't they?  Aren't they?  I read in Deuteronomy,
he says "Love your neighbor as yourself.  Thats the law.  Its
God's word, thats the law.  Thats why Jesus said in John 12, you
recall, "In that day if anyone hears My word and does not
believe, I do not judge him, but he has one that will judge him.
 
The word that I speak will judge Him.  Why?  Because all He has
to do is manifest His word and in the light of that word without
a veil, if you take away the veil, expose the word in all its
fulness, it will bring up all the sin.  And the sin itself will
do the work of condemnation.  Christ does not have to do it.

Whats another name for the word?  How about light?  "This is the
condemnation.  Light enters the world."  John 3:19.  This is
consistent.  You'll find this everywhere.  Thats what Christ
does.  He  manifests Himself, He manifests the truth.  "judgment
is according to truth."  Romans ch. 2.  Its in verse 1.  This is
very consistent.  The source of condemnation is  not God.  God
loves us.  The source of condemnation is our own sin and thats
manifested and then Satan distorts it and makes it look even
worse and goes beyond that.  And when you see your sin tell you
you're so sinful that there's no way He could ever accept you. 
Thats the crushing load of guilt and condemnation.  The
darkness, the feelings that come over you when you see your sin
and thats the hour you have got to not trust your feeling, but
believe the good news that no matter how you look God loves you
anyway and has pardoned you.  But when you see your sin, its a
terrible load.  Sin makes you feel guilty.  It does that.  

Why do you think Peter after Jesus worked a miracle and Peter
didn't exercise the faith and Jesus worked a miracle with the
fish.  What did Peter say when he got out of the boat?  "Oh
depart from me!  Depart from me!"  Why was he saying that?  Why
would he say that?  Because he was saying, as I see my doubt, as
I see how much I resist you, as I see how sinful I really am,,
there's no way you can really accept me, no way.  No way.  He
sees his sin and sin brings a crushing load of guilt on him. 
Sin does that.  Sin condemns and Satan distorts it and all of
that is the source of condemnation.  Not God.
681.8Jesus' Work of Judgment (1 of 2)YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:2860
The work of judgment that Jesus does is not to condemn us.  Its
to save us. Its to cleanse us.  Its to deliver us.  Thats the
work that Jesus wants to do.  Is that possible that that's what
He does?  That's a work of judgment, its a work of deliverance? 
Well lets go to the book of Judges because it would seem that
the book of Judges, it would make sense anyway, would shed some
light on the judgment.  Lets see what the book of Judges has to
say about judgment.

Judges 2:16 
16 Nevertheless, the LORD raised up judges who delivered them
out of the hand of those who plundered them.

What was the work of the judge?  Deliverance.  You know the
history of Israel.  Up and down, up and down...well, mostly
down.  They're mostly down and once in awhile they're up for
fleeting moments and they drop back down and they reject the
Lord and say, "Look we don't want you in our life Lord" and the
Lord says, "Ok, I'll back off" and He backs off and He still
stays.  He still pleads with them.  He still draws on them. 
He's doing everything He can.  But they're pounding Him out and
saying, "Look you have to honor our free will and get out of
here."  And He says, "Ok, but I don't want to."  "But You have
to.  Please  leave us alone!"  And He steps back and in come the
Midianites and they pound on the Israelites.  And in all their
fear motivation they go and cry out to the Lord.  And Psalm 107
says He sends His word to heal them.  But He sends His word
through a judge and the work of the judge was to deliver.  Look
at verse 18.

Judges 2:18 
8 And when the LORD raised up judges for them, the LORD was with
the judge and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies
all the days of the judge; for the LORD was moved to pity by
their groaning because of those who oppressed them and harassed
them.

The work of the judge is to deliver.  Go to 1 Samuel 24.  Again,
I want you to see that this is consistent.  You don't want to
try to prove something with one text, but in the mouth of two or
three witnesses its established.  Line upon line and precept
upon precept.  1 Samuel 24 is a familiar story.  This is Saul
and David at the cave.  Saul came into the cave after David was
in there.  He cut off the little piece of his garment.  Now
David comes out in the morning holds it up to him and he says in
verse 12

1 Samuel 24:12 
12 "Let the LORD judge between you and me, and let the LORD
avenge me on you. 

Go down to verse 15, its clearer.

1 Samuel 24:15 
15 "Therefore let the LORD be judge, and judge between you and
me, and see and plead my case, and deliver me out of your hand."

What is the work of judgment in David's eyes?  Deliverance. 
Clearly.  From the hand of his enemy.  judgment is deliverance. 
681.9Jesus' Work of Judgment (2 of 2)YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:2868
Psalm 76:8
8  You caused judgment to be heard from heaven; The earth feared
and was still,

Boy that sounds familiar.  "Fear God and give glory to Him for
the hour of His judgment is come."  The earth, the whole earth
is lightened with His glory.  This may have some last day
application.

Psalm 76:8-9
8  You caused judgment to be heard from heaven; The earth feared
and was still, 9  When God arose to judgment, To deliver all the
oppressed of the earth.

The hour of judgment is the hour of deliverance.  Go to Daniel
chapter 7.  Daniel chapter 7 is the throne room scene.  Its the
judgment chapter.  Now you remember the history of Daniel
chapter 7.  There are the four beasts and out of those four
beasts comes ten horns and out of the ten comes a little horn
that uproots three and lets pick it up with verse 8.

Daniel 7:8-10 
8 "I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a
little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first
horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn,
were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous
words. 9  "

I watched till thrones were put in place, And the Ancient of
Days was seated; His garment was white as snow, And the hair of
His head was like pure wool. His throne was a fiery flame, Its
wheels a burning fire; 10  A fiery stream issued And came forth
from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; Ten
thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was
seated, And the books were opened.

Daniel says, you've got this succession of beasts.  After the
beasts comes this little horn and this little horn is in power
until when?  The judgment.  Now Daniel says, "Wait a minute. 
You might have missed it.  I'm going to repeat myself."  He
explains the vision.  But, lets us drop down to verse 21.  We'll
go right to the punsh line.

Daniel 7:21-22 
21 "I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the
saints, and prevailing against them, 22 "until the Ancient of
Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the
Most High,  

judgment is the hour of deliverance.  Daniel says, "Well, you
might have missed it.   I'm going to do it again.  Drop down to
verse 25 speaking of the little horn.

Daniel 7:25-27 
25  He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall
persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to
change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his
hand For a time and times and half a time. 26  '

But the court shall be seated, And they shall take away his
dominion, To consume and destroy it forever. 27  Then the
kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under
the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of
the Most High.

And it goes on.  Again, judgment comes to deliver.  The hour of
judgment is the hour of deliver- ance for the saints.  It is the
hour of deliverance for the saints.  
681.10Another Aspect of Judgment: God On Trial!!!YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:2971
Now this is interesting.  This is interesting because its the
hour for the saints, but its also the hour God Himself secures
the kingdom.  Because up until this point God Himself really is
on trial.  Have you heard of that?  God Himself is on trial. 
God Himself is the One being judged.  Revelation 14:7 says "Fear
God and give Him glory the hour of His judgment is come."  Now
with the English language thats very ambiguous.  That can be
read one of two ways.  The hour of His judgment is come either
means it is the hour He is judging or it is the hour that He is
judged.  Or it could be both.  I'm inclined to believe its both.
 Because the hour He judges is the hour He cleanses and
delivers, but in that hour He does that He also clears His own
name.  Clearly God is on trial.  And of the two possibilities;
God's on trial or we're on trial, of the two possibilities, Paul
leans heavily toward God on trial in Romans chapter 3.  Look at
Romans chapter 3.  Romans ch. 3 talks about God clearing His own
name.

Romans 3:3-4 
3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the
faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let
God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: "That You
may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are
judged."

When God is judged!  When He is judged.  How does He need to be
justified?  I thought justified is to make right.  God is
justified, isn't He?  The word justify means make right or show
one to be right.  God has got to show that He is right.  If He
does not show that He is right, creation will never serve Him
out of love.  Never.  And if creation never serves Him out of
love, He will never have the kingdom He desires.  Because His
kingdom is based on the fact that He is love and He can clearly
demonstrate that and we serve Him because He is love.  Not
because we have to.  That was the first talk Friday night. 
Thats why in Isaiah 5 He says, "Judge Me."  The Lord says that. 
He says "Judge Me.  Judge between Me and My vineyard.  Look. 
Look at all that I am and all that I'm doing and all that I'm
trying to accomplish."

God doesn't want to sit back and keep us in darkness.  You know
there are a lot of folks out there who say, "Well, you can never
understand who God is and what He's like and how justice works. 
And what His love is really like.  Just, you know, He says this
and just do it.  You don't have to understand anything."  Thats
not true.  God Himself wants us to look in to what is going on
and how He's trying to handle this and what His government's
about and what the kingdom is based on.  He wants us to see and
know.  He wants our faith to rest on an intelligent
understanding of His love.  Thats why in the book of Job, it
starts with a clear demonstration.  And God says, "Yes, lets put
it out.  Everybody, take a look.  Come on.  Everybody.  Lets
look at whether Job will serve Me out of love or not.  Whether
Job serves Me because he's afraid, because he's selfish, because
he knows which side his bread is buttered on or whether he
serves Me because He loves Me."  And God says, "Look, I am so
good.  I am what I am.  I am love.  And that will secure and
reign and motivate, and move in this universe forever when this
sin thing is finally understood.  It will be so clear how bad
sin is and how good I am that no one will ever touch sin again."
 
In fact Job is a good demonstration.  He's pretty close to being
sealed and understanding this thing.  "He loves Me so much that
no matter what you do to Him, He will serve Me out of love." 
And Satan says, "Oh!  Can I?  Can I really?  Let me at him!" 
And Job is a picture of what happens when the four winds are
released and Satan comes with everything.  And he stands.  As I
read it in Job 1 and Job 2, "In all this, Job did not sin."  Job
is a picture of God's last day saints who are going to stand for
Him, fear Him, and give Him glory - are going to glorify Him.  
681.11How God Is Vindicated In JudgmentYIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:2983
How do you and I glorify God?  How?  John 15:8 says by this way,
"That we bear much fruit."  God's going to have a people who are
ready to go all the way to the cross with Him.  And that living
demonstration is going to prove everything wrong that Satan
says.  What does Satan say?  That this whole concept of God
being so good and love that when everybody sees it, they will
serve Him - that this concept is wrong.  We won't serve him.  We
will not serve Him.  And God says, "Yes they'll serve Me and in
fact love is such a powerful motivator that when this generation
sees it, they will serve Me all the way to the end.  They will
follow everywhere My Son went.  Everywhere.  They will follow
Him all the way."  "All the way My Savior leads Me."  They're
going to follow Him all the way.  

And that is going to demonstrate not only that God's love is so
good, He is who He is, but that He's not so hard to serve. 
Wasn't Satan saying God is a tyrant?  And He's putting rules and
regulations and things that are hard for man to do and the
angels to do and God was being a tyrant.  And God is saying,
"No, the only liberty is in obedience.  Freedom is in obedience.
Sin is slavery.  This isn't hard to do."  When you love Him,
you will keep His commandments.  When you understand His love,
His commandments aren't grievous.  Satan said they were hard. 
They were a yoke.  Hard to bear.  Obedience is hard.  He told
Eve that in the garden.  She said, "Well He said we can't eat of
the tree."  He says, "Ahhh, your eyes are just starting to open
to what His kingdom's like.  This is just the beginning.  Here
come the rules.  Here comes the bondage.  Here comes the
heaviness."  And she began to doubt God's love.  

The final generation will not doubt God's love.  And they are
going to demonstrate how good God is and that power and that
generation is going to vindicate Him.  Notice what happens here
in Romans 3.  The issue over God's vindication is finished when
He has a believing people and thats why Paul says here, this is
what the Jews were all about.  God gave them His word, the
oracles of God (verse 2), but they did not believe and because
they did not believe they made God out to be a liar!  1 John
5:10 says, "If you believe you have the witness."  If you don't
believe you make Him out to be a liar.  Why?  Because God has
said He's going to  have a group that keep His commandments and
have the faith of His Son and that has never happened and they
did not believe and they made Him out to be a liar or at least
look like He's a liar.  But the fact that they did not believe
and did not become that group He could hold up to the world,
does that, Paul asks, does that make the faithfulness of God
without effect?  Absolutely not.  Let God be true and every man
a liar who says that He will not have a people in whom he cannot
keep them from falling.  Any man who says that let him be a liar
because God is faithful and will do it, will perform it.  Will
sanctify them completely it says in 1 Thessalonians 5:23.  He's
going to do it and when He cleanses that people, He will hold
them up to the world.  And in the judgment hour that takes
place.  That is why Isaiah says, "God is exalted in judgment."  

Go to Isaiah chapter 5.  In fact there's about two or three very
good verses that shed some light on the judgment in Isaiah
chapter 5 and I think chapter 1.  But, lets go to chapter 5
first.  I want you to see this.  Isaiah 5:3.  This is the story
of the vineyard here.  Jesus likens His people to the vineyard. 
And then later when He is incarnated, tells the parable about
it.  But in verse 3 it says

Isaiah 5:3
And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah, Judge,
please, between Me and My vineyard.

He wants us to look into Him.  Into His system of government. 
Into how He operates.  Into His character.  He wants us to know
Him entirely.  And its when you and I know Him entirely that
He's going to be exalted.  Thats in verse 16.

Isaiah 5:16 
16  But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, And God
who is holy shall be hallowed in righteousness.

Well that means that its time for us to be cleansed.  Go to
chapter 1:27.  Is that what the judgment is all about?  Isaiah
1:27.  "Zion [thats the church), Zion [thats Isrsel - today,
modern Israel the church], Zion shall be redeemed with justice."
Your margin might say judgment.  The King James might just say
judgment, I don't remember. 
681.12The Investigative Judgment of The Saints (1 of 2)YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:3045
judgment.  The hour of judgment is the hour of deliverance for
the saints.  Now does that mean that God is not doing any
investigating, any searching?  Absolutely not!  It doesn't mean
that.  Of course He is.  Its just not a work of condemnation. 
The work of the Holy Spirit, no question, is a work of
searching.  But, not to condemn, to save.  "Search me O God and
know my heart.  Try me and see if there be any wicked thing in
me."  Search.  Dig.  Come up.  Why?  Because its our sin thats
condemning us and He's trying to do a complete and thorough
salvation from sin.  And so He searches and digs and tries to
come up with those things that keep us from a deeper experience
with God.  Not to condemn us.  

It is our sin thats condemning us.  Isaiah 57 says the wicked
have no rest.  Why?  Because they are swimming in sin and their
sin is condemning them.  It is separating them from God.  Why? 
Literally, because God leaves them?  No, God's right there with
them.  In fact they could even have no consciousness of sin if
it wasn't that the Holy Spirit were right there with them
convicting them.  But it makes them feel as though God would
never ever love them and could never ever love them, could never
accept them.  Their sin is condemning them.  Therefore the
Spirit comes down and clearly shows you how sinful that sin is
and says, "Please give it up.  Let Me take that away from you. 
Let Me do a heart change in you and pull that sin out."  And as
He takes the sin, the source of the condemnation, the
condemnation leaves.  Thats why Paul in Romans 8:1 says

Romans 8:1 
1  There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in
Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but
according to the Spirit.

When you are walking in the Spirit, of course there's no source
of condemnation.  Why?  Because God stopped condemning you?  No,
He never was.  Because the sin that was condemning you has been
removed.  And you are walking in the Spirit.  Thats why
justification by faith brings peace.  Therefore having been
justified by faith, made right with God by faith, cleansed by
faith, we are at peace.  I would suggest to you there is no
peace in sin.  Period.  Therefore justification by faith has got
to remove the source of the condemnation.  To say that it only
removes condemnation and not the sin is ridiculous because sin
is the source of the condemnation.
681.13The Investigative Judgment of The Saints (2 of 2)YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:3036
And so in the hour of judgment, God is going to do a cleansing
work and the way that He is going to do it, the way that Jesus
is going to come down and cleanse His people is the same way
that the others are condemned.  How are they condemned?  "Light
comes into the world."  And it exposes their sin and they refuse
to let it go.  And so it condemns them.  Their sin condemns
them.  But those that respond, the same process, light comes to
them and they see their sin.  As they go into the Most Holy, you
remember, as they go from the holy into the Most Holy, what
disappears?  A veil disappears.  And as that light exposes the
sin, the wicked, they respond by turning away.  What does James
2 say?  Or its at the end of James 1 I think.  The natural man
looks into the mirror, the perfect law of liberty.  And what
does he see?  He sees himself.  But he has to turn away.  Why? 
Because of the condemnation.  Its too heavy.  He's got to do one
of two things.  He's got to repent and give up the sin or he's
got to turn away and let that sin sink down into his
subconscious.  Go from between the conscious to the subconscious
mind and there I would suggest to you is a practical application
of the veil.  The veil separates the conscious and the
subconscious mind.  And in the Day of Atonement, God has a
people who are willing to allow the Lord to do a searching work
and go down and bring everything up.  And He does it by showing
us deeper and deeper how good He is.  Its a work of contrast. 
Its beautiful.  "We all as beholding with open face [without a
veil] as within a glass the glory of the Lord are changed into
that image."  Cause from glory to glory He shows us Himself and
as we see Him we see us in contrast.  That is the reason that He
could not show us everything prior to the hour of judgment.  

In the hour of judgment a people are willing.  And once they're
willing, He goes all the way and shows them everything of who He
is and in contrast, they see everything who they are.  1
Corinthians 13 says, "Now we know in part, but then we shall
know even as we are known."  There's the perfect proportionate
work of the cleansing.  
681.14Before The Second Coming ApplicationsYIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:3169
You might  have thought that was strictly talking about
afterwards, the second coming, but I don't think so.  Go with me
to 1 John chapter 3.  I don't think that is either.  1 John
chapter 3 seems to be talking about the cleansing.  

1 John 3:1-2 
1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that
we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does
not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are
children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall
be,

Has it?  No, "eye has not seen nor ear heard, nor entered into
the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those who
love Him."  Well, again, thats one of those verses we apply to 
only after the second coming.  Talking about mansions.  And
thats nice.  Thats true.  When we get to heaven, ohhh!, our eyes
will be enlightened.  It will be mind blowing what we all see in
heaven.  But, I would suggest to you that that verse has a very
powerful last day application because if you read the verse in
its context, the whole chapter and the preceding chapter is
talking about the cross and the mystery of redemption.  And Paul
says there has not yet entered the mind of what God has prepared
for those who love Him.  If you're seeking only the gift, whats
in it for  you, you'll think strictly of heaven.  If you're
seeking the fruits, you're thinking of the character of Jesus
that God wants to clothe you with.  

We have not yet realized what God is going to do in a final
generation.  Thats why Paul says in Romans 8, he says the same
thing.  This demonstration, this group has not yet appeared.  I
forget how he puts it.

Romans 8:19 
19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for
the revealing of the sons of God.

This bride that is going to come on the scene.  Thats what
creation is longing for.  It hasn't happened yet.  It hasn't
come yet and all creation's waiting for it.  When will they
appear?  When are they going to be revealed?  Well, I would
suggest to you it is as He is revealed, right?  If by beholding
we become changed, then in order for God to have a final
generation thats changed entirely into His image, they have to
see Him as He is before the second coming.  "Beloved, it does
not yet appear what we shall be, but when he appears we shall be
like Him for we shall see Him as He is."  We become like Him
before the second coming.  From glory to glory to glory to
glory.  That coming is not the second.  Its the same one Malachi
3 is talking about.  "Who can endure His coming for He comes to
do a cleansing work in the sons of Levi."  He comes to judge His
people.  Malachi chapter 3.  Psalm 50 says the same thing.  He
comes to judge His people to do a cleansing work.  That is the
appearing that is soon going to take place.  I believe.

Jesus is coming very very soon.  First, in the Day of Atonement
as our High Priest.  Then in the second coming.  But, we want to
see Him first as our High Priest, don't we?  Before we try to
crown Him King?  Do you want to stand there and try to crown Him
King if you haven't seen Him as High Priest?  It is time to let
Him do that cleansing work.  Then we'll see what the mansions
look like.  Its time to see Him as he is and all He's trying to
accomplish.  And I would suggest its going to take a people who
have their motivation changed.  Changed.  And go from, "I will
wear a crown in my Father's" house to, "Lord, if you even give
me a crown, I just hope I have the common sense and motivation
to just thrown it at your feet."  And crown Him with many
crowns.  
681.15The Church Is Judged First...And Also JudgesYIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:3260
God's going to have a people who have to go through that
transition in motivation first.  And in the hour of judgment it
seems to take place because He reveals to us who He is.  Thats
why the latter rain largely becomes as a pouring out of truth,
bringing us to all truth, convicting us of sin and righteousness
and judgment.  He comes pouring out the truth.  Elijah comes. 
All this work is to illumine and awaken us to the reality of how
good God is.  If we will not resist that, if we will but not
resist because thats our part.  Faith.  If we will just not
resist the good news and let it capture and melt us, it will do
its cleansing work.  And when it happens in the church. 
judgment starts where?  1 Peter 4:17, "judgment begins at the
house of God."  When the revelation first comes to the church
and does its cleansing work in the church and they are raised up
into His glory, then they go out and judge the world.  Doesn't
it say "Know ye not that the saints will judge the world"? 
Thats true, we're going to look at books when we get to heaven. 
But, if light comes to judge us, will we be the light, the glory
of God, the manifestation of His character, the light to the
world that judges them?  Absolutely.

For times sake I won't look at it, but read Psalm 50:1-6.  Read
Joel chapter 2.  Read Joel chapter 3 toward the end of it.  It
talks about out of Zion.  Thats the church.  Out of Zion God
will shine forth this flame!  This fire out of their midst. 
Zechariah chapter 2 verse 5.  Amos 1:2.  Consistent.  God's
people are the source of this fire.  I don't think its a literal
fire.  I'm hoping its not!  

How are we a fire and how do we judge the world?  The same way
it says in Romans 12.  You want to heap coals of fire on
somebody's head, go out and love them.  If they're hungry, give
them a sandwich.  If they're thirsty, give them a drink and in
so doing you're going to heap coals of fire on their head. 
Because as you are a living demonstration of His love, they
cannot help but see their sin in contrast and their own sin will
condemn them.  Their own sin will be a coal of fire in their
mind.  That's why Jesus said in Psalm 22, at the cross, "My
heart melts within Me."   I didn't see a fire there, did you? 
The guilt was the fire.  In Lamentations 1, Jeremiah says, "The
fire of heaven comes down and its consuming my bones."  What is
it?  Its guilt.  Jeremiah is corporately uniting himself with a
fallen people that are doing anything but God's will.  And
instead of saying, "Well, look at those sinners", he's saying,
"Lord, look at us."  He sees their sin.  He realizes his
corporate guilt.  And he sees how bad he is.  Him and his
people.  Like Isaiah 6, to the core,  and as he sees that, all
he can say is the fire of heaven is consuming me.  

Well God's going to have a demonstration of glory in the last
days in His people.  And the glory of the Lord is like a
consuming fire, Exodus 24:17.  It is like a consuming fire and
its going to take this world by storm.  He comes first to the
church in judgment and then to the world.  And just as Ninevah,
Jesus said, "Ninevah will judge this generation."  Rise up in
the judgment, Ninevah will rise up and condemn this
generation...Jesus is talking to the Jews, so will God's last
day people rise up.  Revelations 13,14 and give Him glory and
stand in judgment.  You and I are called to stand in judgment.  
681.16The Solemn Calling of The Last GenerationYIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:3248
Do we have any idea what that means?  Do we even have an inkling
of the import of this?  How solemn this is?  That God plans on
doing something in His people?  I'm not getting legalistic. 
Don't confuse the methodology with the result.  The result is
what He does.  The method is how He does it.  We're not going to
do this.  We're simply going to appreciate it and allow Him to
do it.  It is His work, but don't limit His work.  He is going
to do a final full complete powerful work in His people so much
so that it says of the little horn power...it doesn't say God
destroys the little horn power...in Daniel 7, it speaks of the
people and it says, "They take away his dominion."  He goes so
far in Romans 16 to say that Satan will be crushed under your
feet shortly.  

Remember in the cleansing of the sanctuary the answer of the
angel to "what is the cleansing of the sanctuary?" was "Seventy
weeks are given to you and your people to finish transgression,
"No wait, its not up to us to finish the transgression, thats
God's work!"  Believe me, the angel knows  whose work is who's. 
But, you are so united with Him that when He does His work, you
are doing it with Him.  Your part is faith and you are the
vehicle and He does it through you and you are going to help in
finishing transgression and making reconciliation for iniquity
and bringing in everlasting righteousness.  Securing the
kingdom.   Sealing up vision and prophecy.  Annointing the Most
Holy.  [note: taken from Daniel 9:24]

What a calling.  Thats incredible.  Thats what God was offering
to Israel.  He kept over and over saying, "I want you guys to be
this generation."  A chosen generation.  A royal priesthood.  A
holy nation.  To do what?  To show forth the praises of Him who
has called you out of this darkness into that marvelous light. 
We are going to glorify Him in the final hour.  And that is what
he is calling us to do.  He's calling us, as it says in
Revelation 3, to sit down in His throne with Him, to overcome as
He overcame and sit down in His throne.  

I'm convinced that if honestly He wasn't lying and He was
offering that to Israel, that He was calling His disciples.  And
those people to sit down with Him in His throne.  He was.  But
they didn't understand what he was talking about.  And he said,
"I am offering you guys, when you judge the twelve tribes of
Israel, I'm offering you guys thrones."  And they were saying,
"Oh man!  Gold and velvet here it comes."  "I will wear a
crown."  Thats what they were saying.  He said, "You guys can
sit down in thrones."  And they were saying, "Gold and velvet. 
Gold and velvet."  
681.17Jesus Keeps Lifting Up The Standard!! (1 of 2)YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:3349
Just turn with me to Matthew chapter 16.  I want you to just
quickly see a progression here as Jesus takes them to the cross
and as He starts showing them the standard how they just, they
can't handle it.  Its too much.  He starts showing them what the
kingdom is really all about.  Skip 16 for time's sake.  Go right
up to chapter 19.  In 16 is when He started showing Peter the
cross and Peter said, "No way" and the Lord said, "Get thee
behind Me Satan" because if you are anti cross, you are
antiChrist and they are opposing Him.  And he is starting to
say, "Look, I've got news.  This kingdom I'm talking about, it
is a kingdom of the cross.  And it is a kingdom of selfless love
and the standard of this kingdom is the cross and selfless love
and I want you guys to start seeing what I'm calling you to.  I
want you to see what the law really is."  He had done it once in
Matthew chapter 5.  He had magnified the law, but apparently
they didn't listen too carefully back there.  He's going to
start doing it again.  We'll just take it up in chapter 19.

Matthew 19:3-10 
3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to
Him, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any
reason?" 4 And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read
that He who made them at the beginning 'made them male and
female,' 5 "and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his
father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall
become one flesh'? 6 "So then, they are no longer two but one
flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man
separate." 7 They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to
give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" 8 He said
to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts,
permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it
was not so. 9 "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife,
except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits
adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits
adultery." 10 His disciples said to Him, "If such is the case of
the man with his wife, it is better not to marry."

He begins holding the standard and they go, "Ohhh!  We better
not get married if He's going to hold us to a standard like
that!"  And Jesus says, "Oh yeah?  Verse 11."

Matthew 19:11-12 
11 But He said to them, "All cannot accept this saying, but only
those to whom it has been given: 12 "For there are eunuchs who
were born thus from their mother's womb, and there are eunuchs
who were made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have
made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He who
is able to accept it, let him accept it." 
681.18Jesus Keeps Lifting Up The Standard!! (2 of 2)YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:3339
Paul talks about all things are lawful, but not expedient.  Now
I don't want to go into a long physical thing on marriage in the
final generation, but I'll tell you there's a picture in the
Bible of how marriages are going to look very different from
what they do now.  When God holds the two up as one flesh to the
world in the last days.  Paul says in 1 Corinthians 7 (Oh
dangerous verse if we don't have discernment!), but he says,
"Time is so short that you who have a wife should live like you
don't."  Now guys, be careful.  That is not license for neglect.
 
But, I think what Paul is saying is this, you and I don't have
a clue as to how selfish by nature we really are.  And in our
marriages, we are still so weak and so insecure.  We spend so
much time on each other and thats ok for now.  Thats ok.  And we
spend money on each other and time on each other and focusing on
each other and Paul says, in the end what is going to happen is
God's going to have such mature people who are so secure in
Christ that the two, if they really become one flesh, (if
they're focusing on each other, they're focusing on their self
because they're only one flesh), but if they really become one
flesh they're going to focus outward entirely.  And they're
going to say to each other, "I know you love me.  I don't need
you to be buying for me.  We can put our money and our time and
our energy outward."  

I'm not saying you need to throw out everything in your program 
of whatever, but all I'm saying is that we are very immature.  
And He started to hold up this standard of maturity to the disciples.  
And they were going, "Uhhhh!"  Every time He opens to the kingdom, 
what it is and its not what they think it is, they go "Uhhhh!"  

But, He keeps going.  Look in chapter 19 here when the rich
young ruler comes along.  "What do I do to inherit eternal
life?"  He said, "Keep the commandments."  Verses 16 through 22.
And he said, "I have."  And he said, "Ok, if you want to be
perfect, go sell what you have and give to the poor and you will
have treasure in heaven."  Everyone of us goes, "Oh boy, if he
calls me to do that...well, eventually I know I will have to
give up my things and I think I can do it.  I think I can do it."
681.19How Much Can We Be Willing to Give for God??? (1 of 2)YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:3430
Let me ask you something,  He didn't say your things, he said
everything you have.  What is the greatest thing the Christian
has?  Is it the deed to the kingdom itself?  Would you be
willing to give up the deed to the kingdom?  Paul was.  Moses
was.  Paul said, "I'd be willing to be accursed."  Moses said,
"Blot me out Lord."  And both of them said, "Because your
mission and Your character and Your name and the vindication and
honor that You deserve is more important than any reward for me.
And that is what I long for."

You might think that Moses longed for the kingdom because in
Hebrews 11, it says, the reason he stood up from Pharoah is
because he sought the reward.  It does say that.  I had been
studying his life and then I saw that and I went, "Oh, Moses!" 
But, if you go back in the book of Numbers its quite clear what
reward he sought and it wasn't his.  It was the reward of the
Savior.  That is what he hunted.  And on the mount when God
tested Moses and said "Moses, I've got a great idea.  We're
gonna take this pack of million screaming meanies who could care
less about My plan and we're just gonna wipe them out.  And I'm
gonna make you head and no longer the children of Abraham, but
now the children of Moses!"  And Moses sat back and took that
long pause.  And Moses was a theologian.  He knew what the
blotting out meant.  And he said, "Lord, if You can't do it,
blot me out too.  Because its not just a people who will be
lost, it is Your honor.  Because you have said that You can take
a people from A to Z and cleanse them and hold them up and make
a holy nation and if You can't do that...what good is my life? 
Thats what I'm all about.  What you're all about."
681.20How Much Can We Be Willing to Give for God??? (2 of 2)YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:3445
Would you be willing to give up everything?  Well, the disciples
didn't see that in this passage when He said, "Be willing to
sell everything", they were thinking strictly physical and their
heads were spinning and they were saying, "This is terrible." 
Look, drop down to verse 25, what was their response after He
said its harder for a rich man to enter heaven than for a camel
to go through the eye of a needle?  Verse 25, "When the
disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed saying, 'Who
can even be saved?'"  Over here its "We better not even get
married.  He's holding up the standard again."  Now He holds the
standard up higher and they said, "Who can even be saved?"  And
He said, "Well, whats impossible with man is possible with God. 
I can bring you to this standard."  And its in this context that
Peter goes and has the audacity to come up and say, "Lord you
know, we've gotten rid of everything and sold everything and
followed You."  Had Peter really sold everything and followed
Jesus?  What did Peter give up?  The nets?  The boats?  Don't
admire that too much.  It was just a good business deal.  He was
giving up a life of hard toil for a top seat in the kingdom. 
Peter did not know his heart and he stands and he says, "Lord,
I've given up everything."  And I picture Jesus saying, "Ok,
you've given up everything?  If you've given up everything
Peter."  Look down to verse 28.  "If you've given up everything,
assuredly I say to you that in the regeneration when the Son of
man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me
will also sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of
Israel.

Can you imagine hearing that promise from the lips of Jesus
Himself?  "You will sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve
tribes of Israel."  And do you know whats going on in their
minds because they refuse to listen to Him and they know He's
setting up a physical earthly kingdom.  And He said thrones and
they're thinking gold and velvet.  They might  have even thought
of back in 1 Samuel chapter 2 where Hannah prayed over Samuel
when the promise came that she was going to have Samuel.  And
Hannah's prayer is beautiful and in that prayer she says, "The
Lord, who raises the poor out of the dust, the beggars out of
the ash heap.  The poor, the downtrodden and sets them among the
princes, and makes them inherit the throne of glory."  Boy does
that fit this picture.  They were the poorest of the poor.  The
Romans were constantly destroying them.  Raises them up, sets
them among princes, and makes them inherit the throne.  They
were going to be princes in the kingdom.  They were so excited.  
681.21But, What Really Are The Thrones?? (1 of 2)YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:3548
And its in that context that Salome comes to Jesus and says, "I
have one little itsy bitsy teeny weeny favor to ask.  When you
set this kingdom up, can my two sons sit on the left and the
right on these thrones?"  And Jesus says, "You don't have a clue
to what you just asked.  Because you're thinking physical. 
Physical thrones, physical building, physical temple, physical
city, and My throne is right up here at Golgotha.  Can you sit
on the left and the right?  Be baptized with My baptism and
drink this cup?"  

Thats what it  means to sit on the throne.  Thats what it means
to sit on the throne.  How do you know?  How do you know? 
Because in Daniel chapter 7, the Father is seated on the throne.
Why would the Father be seated on the throne?  What does the
throne really represent?  Think.  The throne is the very seat of
government and I would submit to you that the throne represents
absolutely everything the government stands for.  And God's
government, as I see it, is based on absolutely selfless love. 
And God is love and he has every right to sit on that throne. 

Jesus, He leaves heaven, comes down here and takes fallen flesh
and now He no longer sits on that throne, but He has to earn the
right to sit on the throne.  He has to earn it.  Thats why in
Revelation chapter 5, when the scroll can't be open because
there's no one there and John's weeping.  John says he can't
find anyone.  And then it says, "Wait!  Here's One whose
worthy."  Who?  Jesus is worthy.  Why?  Because He's the Lamb
slain from the foundation of the world.  Jesus by faith goes all
the way to the cross, is perfected through suffering and that
love, that selfless love that the throne represents, is
reproduced in Christ again as man.  And now He overcomes and in
overcoming He can sit down in that throne.  Thats why it says in
Revelation 3:21 He overcame and sat down in the throne. 
Revelation chapter 5 says that He was the Lamb slain and that
made Him worthy to sit down in the throne and open the seals.  

The throne represents selfless love. Its what God's government
is.  Thats why...you can look this up.   Its in Psalms, its in
Proverbs, it talks about how mercy, about justice are the
foundation of His throne.  Its His character.  Its who He is. 
And when that character is perfectly reproduced in the flesh in
Christ, God manifest in the flesh (in Christ) He is worthy to
sit down in that throne.  And in the great controversy where
Satan is saying love is nothing.  You are not what You say You
are.  In the judgment hour when God is on trial, He's seated in
that throne.  In the judgment hour, Jesus sits down with Him and
takes His stand with His Father.  
681.22But, What Really Are The Thrones?? (2 of 2)YIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:3533
But in the judgment scene of Daniel 7, it says there are
thrones.  Plural.  Not throne.  Thrones.  Apparently there are
others who are going to sit down with them in this hour.  And
Jesus said, "You are My witnesses.  I'm on trial and I'm looking
for Evidence A.  A final exhibit that is going to so destroy the
prosecuting attorney's arguments that it will forever seal
everyone for eternity.  Thats what I'm trying to do."

And he is offering a group the chance to overcome even as he
overcame and sit down in His throne even as His Father sat down
in His throne.  "Know ye not that the saints will judge the
world?"  Do we have any idea what He is calling us to in the
last generation?  He's calling us to the cross.  "Lest I forget
Gethsemane.  Lest I forget Thy name.  Lest I forget Thy love for
me.  Lead me to Calvary."  He's going to have a generation who
follow in His steps, who drink that cup, who are baptized with
His baptism.  They consider Him who endured such contradiction
of sinners against Himself and they march with Him and lay aside
every weight and the sin that so easily besets them.  Looking
unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of their faith.  And he does
this incredible work.  Silences the accuser.  Everybody makes
their decision.  Everybody is sealed for eternity.  And finalyl
it can all end.  

Do you believe this denomination is just another tribe or do we
have a message that someday is supposes to shake this world. 
May we understand how good the good news is in the judgment that
He is not condemning us.  He is doing all He can to get us to
lok at Him.  In fact, in Ezekiel chapter 20 it says He is going
to take the woman out into the wilderness and plead with her
face to face (verse 35) and show her all her abominations (verse
4) and she's going to loath herself in that day.  Thats toward
the end of the chapter.  
681.23May This Be Our CallingYIELD::BARBIERIThu Feb 23 1995 16:3529
May you and I believe Him.  Not follow Israel's mistake who
would not believe Him and proved Him...didn't prove Him, but
tried to show Him a liar.  You and I have the chance to
demonstrate that God is not a liar.  That He is who He says He
is.  He's all that He's cracked up to be.  He's that good.  Oh
God show us the cross in a way thats going to melt us and draw
us into that experience.  

Lets bow our heads and have a word of prayer.  Father I just
thank You once again for good news.  That the judgment is in
harmony with all these other things.  The cleansing of the
sanctuary. The Day of Atonement.  It is all endtime imagery
trying to show us how much You want to wake us to the truth of
the good news of Your character that we would not resist You and
do all that You want to do. As Jones said Father please teach us
not to resist You that we would let You do this searching work
and go down all the way until You bring that last thing up. 
That we might say we would rather have Jesus than that.  And
that You can put the seal on us and that the end can come. 
Please, in anything thats not clear Lord, please make it plain. 
Write it on tablets and make it plain that we can run as we read
it.  Please.  We need to see it.  Its too late for any more
confusion.  We ask You to change our hearts, to give us the true
motivation, to help us to put the puzzle all together Father. 
In fact You promised You will put the puzzle together.  But
teach us what it  means not to resist You in this last day of
Christ's office work of High Priest.  Please.  We pray in His
precious name.  Amen.
681.24sorry for the length, but here's my thoughtsOUTSRC::HEISERMaranatha!Tue Jun 06 1995 02:56465
Tony, here are my initial thoughts that I entered after my first reading of
this sermon.  I'll follow up with my view of God's Judgment and Wrath tomorrow
night.

>Note 681.1                    The Hour of Judgment                       1 of 23

Tony, I'm assuming this is your pastor friend, Tony Phillips.  

The Gospel means "good news."  The Gospel of Jesus Christ will judge those who
refuse it, which are those in the nations judged at eschatological times as
described in Revelation.

>Note 681.2                    The Hour of Judgment                       2 of 23

One thing he doesn't really address in this reply is that Jesus Christ *IS*
God.  Another is that there are 2 judgments.  The Bema Seat Judgment of
Believers and the Great White Throne Judgment of the Unbelievers.

>Note 681.3                    The Hour of Judgment                       3 of 23
>Matthew 7:1.  Remember Matthew 7 in the sermon on the mount is
>all on judgment.
>
>1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.
>
>Well, what kind of judgment is that?  What do You mean don't
>judge?  What is judgment?  
>
>Verses 3 and 4:
>3 "And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but
>do not consider the plank in your own eye? 4 "Or how can you say
>to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and
>look, a plank is in your own eye?

I don't agree with his interpretation/application of this passage.  Christ was
criticizing the Pharisees for their ways and they had uncircumcised hearts.
What about further into that chapter when believers are told not to cast pearls
before swine?  You can't determine swine (unbelievers) without judgment.
Romans 14 condemns judgment among Christians.  

Condemnation doesn't always equal judgment.  Christ came to save, not condemn,
but He will still judge those that refuse Him.

>Note 681.4                    The Hour of Judgment                       4 of 23

Not much in this reply that I disagree with.

>Note 681.5                    The Hour of Judgment                       5 of 23

>Because he is benefitting from God's mercy.  God is not
>condemning him.  It is not God who's condemning him.  "God was
>in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing our
>trespasses against us."  Not condemning us, it says.  He is not.

But these are not things that will be available to us forever.  Revelation shows
that, while God is longsuffering, there comes a time when His mercy is set aside
and judgment takes place of the wicked.  Look at the periods of Israel's
history.  Look at when they were judged (in Egypt, during the Exodus, in Joshua,
Servitudes of the Judges, Servitudes of the Nation, Desolation of Jerusalem,
etc.) and the spiritual state of the nation at the time.
 
>1 Corinthians 1:13 says, "Agape thinks no evil."  Love thinks
>no evil.  In my margin, its interesting, it says, "Love does not
>keep any account of evil."  Thats my margin.  It keeps no

Love also record's names in the Lamb's Book of Life.  Those names that aren't in
it are cast into Hell forever.

As for the Isaiah passages, it takes some interpretive gymnastics to apply
passages intended for Israel to the Church.  God's covenant with His people is
eternal and there's no confusing Israel with the Church.  We're grafted into
that tree.  God didn't entirely reconcile Himself to man until the cross and
that still leaves the fact that every person has to accept that reconciliation
on an individual basis.  We have no right to it, but it's provided as His gift
that must be accepted.  Our birthright is a sinful nature that is only made
clean by accepting Christ's payment for our sin.

>Note 681.6                    The Hour of Judgment                       6 of 23

>Well, if thats the condition of God, then where does all our
>condemnation come from?  Who is it thats condemning us?  Well,
>we've just looked at Lucifer.  He's obviously condemning us.  We
>looked at it in the lives of people who follow him, but we know
>Lucifer's accusing us, right?

Condemner does not equal Accuser.  The ability to condemn implies a righteous,
objective stance from which to condemn from.  Satan will never have that.

>its really our sin that condemns us, not God.  Thats why the law
>condemns us.  The law condemns us.  Very clearly.  Go to John
>ch. 5.  John ch. 5 shows us how the law condemns us.  Jesus is
>talking to the Jews.

Paul wrote in Romans that we wouldn't know sin if it weren't for the law.  If
this is what he means by condemnation then we agree on this point.

>Romans 7:7-8 
>7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the
>contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For
>I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said,
>"You shall not covet." 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the
>commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart
>from the law sin was dead.

Okay, he led up to it.  I'm okay with this point.  The rest of the reply seems
to be okay too.

>Note 681.7                    The Hour of Judgment                       7 of 23

>Whats another name for the word?  How about light?  "This is the
>condemnation.  Light enters the world."  John 3:19.  This is
>consistent.  You'll find this everywhere.  Thats what Christ
>does.  He  manifests Himself, He manifests the truth.  "judgment
>is according to truth."  Romans ch. 2.  Its in verse 1.  This is
>very consistent.  The source of condemnation is  not God.  God

Romans 8:1 says there is no condemnation of those in Jesus Christ.

>darkness, the feelings that come over you when you see your sin
>and thats the hour you have got to not trust your feeling, but
>believe the good news that no matter how you look God loves you
>anyway and has pardoned you.  But when you see your sin, its a
>terrible load.  Sin makes you feel guilty.  It does that.

Where's the atonement here?  He makes it sound as if you just have to be good
to receive God's pardon.  Sounds like works to me.

>Note 681.8                    The Hour of Judgment                       8 of 23

>The work of judgment that Jesus does is not to condemn us.  Its
>to save us. Its to cleanse us.  Its to deliver us.  Thats the
>work that Jesus wants to do.  Is that possible that that's what
>He does?  That's a work of judgment, its a work of deliverance? 
>Well lets go to the book of Judges because it would seem that
>the book of Judges, it would make sense anyway, would shed some
>light on the judgment.  Lets see what the book of Judges has to
>say about judgment.

I don't follow this at all.  It's a major leap of "logic" to me.  Besides, the
book of Judges is a historical record of the Servitude of the Judges in Israel's
history.

>What was the work of the judge?  Deliverance.  You know the
>history of Israel.  Up and down, up and down...well, mostly
>down.  They're mostly down and once in awhile they're up for
>fleeting moments and they drop back down and they reject the
>Lord and say, "Look we don't want you in our life Lord" and the
>Lord says, "Ok, I'll back off" and He backs off and He still

I disagree strongly here.  Israel's major persecutions and judgment before
Christ were because of spiritual immorality with respect to God.  They were low
points in Israel's relationship to God.  The Temple was destroyed in 70 A.D.
because they rejected their Messiah.  Persecutions of Israel since are because
of one of Satan's other tools: Anti-Semitism.

>stays.  He still pleads with them.  He still draws on them. 
>He's doing everything He can.  But they're pounding Him out and
>saying, "Look you have to honor our free will and get out of
>here."  And He says, "Ok, but I don't want to."  "But You have
>to.  Please  leave us alone!"  And He steps back and in come the
>Midianites and they pound on the Israelites.  And in all their
>fear motivation they go and cry out to the Lord.  And Psalm 107
>says He sends His word to heal them.  But He sends His word
>through a judge and the work of the judge was to deliver.  Look

God also furthered their punishment and judgment when they refused to recognize
the chastisement behind King Nebuchadnezzar's first siege.  The prophets begged
the people in the name of God to accept their punishment for forsaking the land
sabbath, but they ignored God's prophets.

>The work of the judge is to deliver.  Go to 1 Samuel 24.  Again,
>I want you to see that this is consistent.  You don't want to
>try to prove something with one text, but in the mouth of two or
>three witnesses its established.  Line upon line and precept
>upon precept.  1 Samuel 24 is a familiar story.  This is Saul

Isaiah 28 out of context.  

>What is the work of judgment in David's eyes?  Deliverance. 
>Clearly.  From the hand of his enemy.  judgment is deliverance.

Judgment has many purposes and one of them is the deliverance of God's people
and His believers from this world of sin.

>Note 681.9                    The Hour of Judgment                       9 of 23

>The hour of judgment is the hour of deliverance.  Go to Daniel
>chapter 7.  Daniel chapter 7 is the throne room scene.  Its the
>judgment chapter.  Now you remember the history of Daniel
>chapter 7.  There are the four beasts and out of those four
>beasts comes ten horns and out of the ten comes a little horn
>that uproots three and lets pick it up with verse 8.

The entire is not a throne-room scene.  It's well documented that the 4 beasts
are an expansion of the statue in Nebuchadnezzar's vision/dream in the earlier
chapter 2.  Chapter 7 is God's view of man's vision in chapter 2.

>Daniel 7:8-10 
>8 "I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a
>little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first
>horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn,
>were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous
>words. 9  "

This is the Antichrist (cf. Revelation 11:36, 13:5-6).

>wheels a burning fire; 10  A fiery stream issued And came forth
>from before Him. A thousand thousands ministered to Him; Ten
>thousand times ten thousand stood before Him. The court was
>seated, And the books were opened.

Sounds an awful lot like the Great White Throne Judgment in Revelation 20:11-15.

>Note 681.10                   The Hour of Judgment                      10 of 23

>God Himself is the One being judged.  Revelation 14:7 says "Fear
>God and give Him glory the hour of His judgment is come."  Now
>with the English language thats very ambiguous.  That can be
>read one of two ways.  The hour of His judgment is come either
>means it is the hour He is judging or it is the hour that He is
>judged.  Or it could be both.  I'm inclined to believe its both.

I don't agree at all.  Read the entire verse, or even chapter, better yet the
whole book.  It's clear God is doing the judging.  Why would they praise God
for being on trial?

>Romans 3:3-4 
>3 For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the
>faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let
>God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: "That You
>may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are
>judged."

Verse 4 quotes Psalm 51:4.  It's clearly saying the decision of man for belief
or unbelief really has no effect on the nature of God.

>When God is judged!  When He is judged.  How does He need to be
>justified?  I thought justified is to make right.  God is
>justified, isn't He?  The word justify means make right or show
>one to be right.  God has got to show that He is right.  If He
>does not show that He is right, creation will never serve Him
>out of love.  Never.  And if creation never serves Him out of
>love, He will never have the kingdom He desires.  Because His

This is poor exegesis in my opinion.  Much of the church and the faithful
remnant already serves Him out of love anyway.

>Note 681.11                   The Hour of Judgment                      11 of 23

>How do you and I glorify God?  How?  John 15:8 says by this way,
>"That we bear much fruit."  God's going to have a people who are
>ready to go all the way to the cross with Him.  And that living
>demonstration is going to prove everything wrong that Satan

I keep hearing works in a lot of this.  For someone who stresses Agape so much,
I don't see much grace.  There should be more balance.  

>says.  What does Satan say?  That this whole concept of God
>being so good and love that when everybody sees it, they will
>serve Him - that this concept is wrong.  We won't serve him.  We
>will not serve Him.  And God says, "Yes they'll serve Me and in
>fact love is such a powerful motivator that when this generation
>sees it, they will serve Me all the way to the end.  They will
>follow everywhere My Son went.  Everywhere.  They will follow
>Him all the way."  "All the way My Savior leads Me."  They're
>going to follow Him all the way.

This is how it should be.  Not everyone has grasped the concept of God's love
and grace though.  That's why there are so many legalistic churches still
trying to buy their way to heaven with works.  They're so constantly worried
about their salvation that they lose their joy and motivation.  Being God's
servant becomes a burdensome chore.  Being good isn't enough.

>they did not believe they made God out to be a liar!  1 John
>5:10 says, "If you believe you have the witness."  If you don't
>believe you make Him out to be a liar.  Why?  Because God has
>said He's going to  have a group that keep His commandments and
>have the faith of His Son and that has never happened and they
>did not believe and they made Him out to be a liar or at least
>look like He's a liar.  But the fact that they did not believe

And what happens to those who make God out to be a liar?  Judgment and Eternal
Punishment.

>because God is faithful and will do it, will perform it.  Will
>sanctify them completely it says in 1 Thessalonians 5:23.  He's

Which is addressed to believers only, not those that make God out to be a liar.

>Isaiah 5:3...

Another twisting of scripture to take away from Israel and force fit it to the
Church.

>Well that means that its time for us to be cleansed.  Go to
>chapter 1:27.  Is that what the judgment is all about?  Isaiah
>1:27.  "Zion [thats the church), Zion [thats Isrsel - today,
>modern Israel the church], Zion shall be redeemed with justice."

Wrong.  Zion is the entire nation of Israel.  It surprises me to learn that the
SDA church promotes replacement theology.  Then again, maybe it isn't a surprise
now that I think about it.

>Your margin might say judgment.  The King James might just say
>judgment, I don't remember.

Does Tony teach without a Bible in front of him or was he pressed for time and
not look it up?

>Note 681.12                   The Hour of Judgment                      12 of 23

Now I see he's attempting to tie this into the SDA doctrine of the Investigative
Judgment.  I think we both know how I feel about this doctrine.

>and says, "Please give it up.  Let Me take that away from you. 
>Let Me do a heart change in you and pull that sin out."  And as
>He takes the sin, the source of the condemnation, the
>condemnation leaves.  Thats why Paul in Romans 8:1 says

I think I've said this to you before, but he's putting the cart before the
horse.  The heart change takes place at the moment of your salvation.  The Holy
Spirit cleaning up your life is the process of spiritual maturing in Christ on
your way to that final sanctification upon the last resurrection.

>Note 681.13                   The Hour of Judgment                      13 of 23

more on the Investigative Judgment...

>them and they see their sin.  As they go into the Most Holy, you
>remember, as they go from the holy into the Most Holy, what
>disappears?  A veil disappears.  And as that light exposes the
>sin, the wicked, they respond by turning away.  What does James

The veil doesn't disappear and you can't enter the Holy Place without the
covering of Christ's blood (i.e., salvation).  Again, it's putting the cart
before the horse.

>subconscious.  Go from between the conscious to the subconscious
>mind and there I would suggest to you is a practical application
>of the veil.  The veil separates the conscious and the
>subconscious mind.  And in the Day of Atonement, God has a

God's Word says that Christ's body was the veil.  *THAT* is its practical
application.

>Note 681.14                   The Hour of Judgment                      14 of 23

>we become changed, then in order for God to have a final
>generation thats changed entirely into His image, they have to
>see Him as He is before the second coming.  "Beloved, it does

Sounds like the translation that occurs to those who believe in a
pre-tribulation rapture.  ;-)

>Note 681.15                   The Hour of Judgment                      15 of 23

>talks about out of Zion.  Thats the church.  Out of Zion God
>will shine forth this flame!  This fire out of their midst.

Wrong again.  Zion is the nation of Israel.

>generation...Jesus is talking to the Jews, so will God's last
>day people rise up.  Revelations 13,14 and give Him glory and
>stand in judgment.  You and I are called to stand in judgment.

This interpretation contradicts Romans 8:1 as well as the several verses that
say God's people aren't destined to wrath.  God's eschatological judgment is
wrath poured out on a sinful world.  Maybe you can explain to me the SDA stance
on God's Wrath rather than His judgment.

>Note 681.16                   The Hour of Judgment                      16 of 23

>Remember in the cleansing of the sanctuary the answer of the
>angel to "what is the cleansing of the sanctuary?" was "Seventy
>weeks are given to you and your people to finish transgression,
>"No wait, its not up to us to finish the transgression, thats
>God's work!"  Believe me, the angel knows  whose work is who's. 
>But, you are so united with Him that when He does His work, you
>are doing it with Him.  Your part is faith and you are the
>vehicle and He does it through you and you are going to help in
>finishing transgression and making reconciliation for iniquity
>and bringing in everlasting righteousness.  Securing the
>kingdom.   Sealing up vision and prophecy.  Annointing the Most
>Holy.  [note: taken from Daniel 9:24]

The context of this prophecy only applies to the timetable in which God will
deal with the nation of Israel!

>I'm convinced that if honestly He wasn't lying and He was
>offering that to Israel, that He was calling His disciples.  And
>those people to sit down with Him in His throne.  He was.  But
>they didn't understand what he was talking about.  And he said,
>"I am offering you guys, when you judge the twelve tribes of
>Israel, I'm offering you guys thrones."  And they were saying,
>"Oh man!  Gold and velvet here it comes."  "I will wear a
>crown."  Thats what they were saying.  He said, "You guys can
>sit down in thrones."  And they were saying, "Gold and velvet. 
>Gold and velvet."

Replacement theology makes me weep!  There is so much scripture you have to
ignore to arrive at such a position.  It's so tragic to read stuff like this!

>Note 681.17                   The Hour of Judgment                      17 of 23
>Note 681.18                   The Hour of Judgment                      18 of 23

He lost me in these two replies.  You don't have to live in eschatological times
to have a marriage the way it's intended to be.

>Note 681.19                   The Hour of Judgment                      19 of 23

>willing to give up the deed to the kingdom?  Paul was.  Moses
>was.  Paul said, "I'd be willing to be accursed."  Moses said,

Paul said this in regards to Israel's salvation.  He's using it out of context.

>Note 681.20                   The Hour of Judgment                      20 of 23

>standard up higher and they said, "Who can even be saved?"  And
>He said, "Well, whats impossible with man is possible with God. 
>I can bring you to this standard."  And its in this context that

Amen.  He keeps raising the standard to show our fallibility and need for a
Savior.  Jesus Christ is the one and only standard by which we're saved.

>Note 681.21                   The Hour of Judgment                      21 of 23

I'll have to do some study on the representation of the throne of God.  I don't
recall anything in Scripture about it.

>Note 681.22                   The Hour of Judgment                      22 of 23

>But in the judgment scene of Daniel 7, it says there are
>thrones.  Plural.  Not throne.  Thrones.  Apparently there are
>others who are going to sit down with them in this hour.  And

The thrones are on different levels though and there are specific designations
on who gets to sit in which thrones.  More on this later.

>Do you believe this denomination is just another tribe or do we
>have a message that someday is supposes to shake this world.

Does the SDA church actually consider themselves a tribe of Israel?  If so,
which one?

>Note 681.23                   The Hour of Judgment                      23 of 23

>May you and I believe Him.  Not follow Israel's mistake who
>would not believe Him and proved Him...didn't prove Him, but
>tried to show Him a liar.  You and I have the chance to
>demonstrate that God is not a liar.  That He is who He says He

In his generalization of Israel here he neglects the fact that God's Word says
Israel will always contain a remnant faithful to Him.

>Lets bow our heads and have a word of prayer.  Father I just
>thank You once again for good news.  That the judgment is in
>harmony with all these other things.  The cleansing of the
>sanctuary. The Day of Atonement.  It is all endtime imagery
>trying to show us how much You want to wake us to the truth of

This example shows to me that imagery can be overdone and sometimes we need to
just accept God's Word literally.  Maybe this is how the SDA church obtains its
replacement theology stance and its eschatological view.  Interpreting
Revelation as purely symbolic leads to fantastic theories and metaphors that can
saying anything you want it to.  There's no law of interpretation in the
symbolic approach.
681.25The Judge and His JudgmentsOUTSRC::HEISERMaranatha!Wed Jun 07 1995 03:14131
The English words "judging" and "judgment" have a variety of meanings.  In
logic, "to judge" is no more than to establish a mental relation between 2 or
more terms, and a "judgment" is simply a proposition which affirms or denies a
connection between concepts.  In psychology "judgment" is but another name for
perspicacity or sagacity, a quality which is ascribed to one who has the gift of
discernment and a capacity for sound appraisal (Psalm 119:66, Philippians 1:9).
In the OT the word "judgment," generally in the plural, is sometimes used to
designate the Torah - instruction, law - i.e. the sum of God's testimonies and
ordinances (Deuteronomy 4:1, Nehemiah 1:7, Psalm 119).  The central context of
the term is in jurisprudence, where "to judge" means "to test or try," and where
a "judgment" is a "judicial decision."  This is the context - the context of
justice - in which the words are chiefly employed in the Bible.

Back of this, however, and providing the ultimate context of the words, is on
the one hand the righteousness of God (a blend of justice and love), and on the
other , the moral and spiritual posture and behavior of men and societies
residing in a fallen world.  In this ethico-judicial context the framework of
judging and judgment is the divinely established moral order; the central
concepts are those of good and evil, right and wrong; and the operative
principle is that what a man sows that he also shall reap (Galatians 6:7).  The
standard of judgment, however, is not the bare law, but the law and the Gospel.
What ultimately decides a man's eternal destiny is his attitude to the Savior
Jesus Christ (Romans 8:1).  By faith in him a man is justified and acquitted
(Romans 3:24-26); by disbelief in or rejection of Him a man remains under law
and is by that law found guilty and condemned (Romans 2:12; Galatians 2:16).

I. The Judge

In the Scriptures God and Christ are presented as judges who, in terms of Gospel
and law, pass a verdict on men, their sentiments, and their actions; and who in
history and at the end of it either vindicate or condemn them.

A. God - According to the Scriptures God is the Judge of all the earth (Genesis
18:25, Psalm 96:10, Isaiah 33:22, Hebrews 12:23, James 4:12, 1 Peter 1:17).  He
is the Judge, and fitted to be this, because with Him is ultimate authority,
unlimited knowledge, supreme righteousness, ineffable love, and unrestricted
power.

1. Authority - God, as the Scriptures witness (Genesis 1:1), is the creator of
heaven and earth.  He is thus Lord of the universe.  His jurisdiction knows no
bounds, and His authority is absolute.  Because He is God He is the very
standard of justice and equity, to His judgments all men are obliged to conform,
and from His decisions there is no appeal (1 Samuel 2:10, Psalm 9:8, 58:11,
99:4, Proverbs 8:15).

2. Knowledge - God is the great discerner.  Being the ultimate determiner of
good and evil, He perceives with unerring accuracy the distinction between these
(Genesis 2:17, 3:4,22, 1 Kings 3:9).  He is also the great discriminator.  With
absolute nicety He sifts the elements in men's behavior, and like an expert
winnower, separates and weighs the good and evil ingredients in the human moral
complex (1 Samuel 2:3, Proverbs 8:14, 20:8).  And He is omniscient.  Nothing is
hid from His sight.  Piercing beyond the superficial and external, He sees into
the depths and perceives the intents and purposes of the heart (Job 22:13,
Jeremiah 11:20, Romans 2:16, 1 Corinthians 4:5).

3. Righteousness - God is always found on the side of the good.  To evil He
addresses no word but No, and to every good His word is Yes.  Indeed, it may be
said that His affirmations and negations are what constitute good and evil, for
He is the final determiner.  In any case all His judgments are just and
righteous (Genesis 18:25, Deuteronomy 32:4, Psalm 33:5, 37:28, 89:14, Proverbs
8:8, Jeremiah 11:20, Ezekiel 33:20, Romans 3:5, 1 Peter 2:23, Revelation 16:7,
19:2).  Because He judges rightly, the oppressed and aggrieved find in Him their
advocate and support.  In this sense His judgments are often saving, and are as
such a token of His love (Deuteronomy 32:36, 1 Samuel 24:12,15, Psalm 10:18,
76:9, 135:14, Isaiah 30:18, 2 Thessalonians 1:5-6).

4. Love - God's justice most clearly coalesces with His love in the act by which
He delivered His only begotten Son into condemnation and death in order that
through His sacrifice and merits men may have pardon and life (Romans 8:32,
Galatians 1:4).  The OT saint knew that God saved by His righteousness (Psalm
31:1), but in Christ it is made unmistakably clear that mercy and forgiveness
flow to men through the judicial sentence passed by God on the Son of His love
(John 11:51-52, Romans 5:8, 1 Corinthians 15:3, 1 Thessalonians 5:10).

5. Power - The power of God to execute the sentences He imposes and to protect
those whom He vindicates is limitless.  Those whom He judges are veritably
judged, being gripped or upborne by His omnipotence.  No one is strong enough to
snatch the lambs from His bosom or to withstand the vigor of His wrath and the
force of His sentence (1 Samuel 2:10, Psalm 54:1, 110:5, Revelation 18:8).

B. Christ - Christ came in the flesh to inaugurate and establish the kingdom of
God which had been promised beforehand and which is to be consummated at the end
of the age.  He came, therefore, not in judgment, but in grace (John 3:17,
8:15, 12:47).  Yet, since in His person, message, and deeds He is the touchstone
of destiny for all, His very presence in the world was a judgment.  By His
redeeming presence the world was judged (John 9:39, 12:31), and its prince (John
16:11), and all who disbelieved (John 3:18, 5:24).  Moreover, although He
refused during His earthly ministry to be a judge in mundane matters (Luke
12:14), He will reappear in glory at the last day to preside at the great and
final assize in which all will appear before His judgment seat to receive from
Him the divine and irrevocable verdict upon their lives (Isaiah 11:3-5, John
5:22-30, 8:16, Acts 10:42, 17:31, Romans 2:16, 1 Corinthians 4:5, 2 Corinthians
5:10, 2 Timothy 4:1,8).

C. Others - Although the men of Nineveh will arise at the judgment and condemn
the evil generation which sought a sign from Jesus (Matthew 12:41), and
although Christ gives His Church the keys of the kingdom (Matthew 16:19) and
declares that His enthroned disciples will judge the 12 tribes of Israel
(Matthew 19:26), and although Paul says that the saints will judge the world and
angels (1 Corinthians 6:2-3), God in Christ will not therefore vacate the
judgment seat.  Repentant Gentiles will no doubt shame the unbelieving Jews on
the Day of the Lord, and the lives and testimonies of the redeemed will be to
those who are not in Christ like the accusations of their conscience, but, with
the saints concurring in His verdicts, Christ alone will be the Judge.

II. The Judgments

Although the great day of judgment is still in the offing, divine judgments have
long been upon the earth, and judgment is being passed daily.  In the past it
was by the judgment of God that the antediluvian civilization was washed away by
the Flood (Genesis 6:5-7), that Israel was sent into exile (Jeremiah 20:4), and
that the several nations mentioned in the prophecies of Amos were scourged or
destroyed.  Chief and most fateful of all such judgments was, of course, that
which brought condemnation and death to all mankind on account of Adam's
trespass (Galatians 5:15-16).

In the present, because God maintains the moral order, His judgments still fall
upon men and nations.  More importantly, just as during His life on earth, so
yet today Christ is set for the rise and fall of men, and the judgment that is
implicit in His person is even now separating men into 2 camps.  It is by virtue
of this fact that believers can in the present, before the final judgment, know
and rejoice that for them there is and will be no condemnation (Romans 8:1,38).

But a day is coming - which no man knows (Matthew 24:36) - when the Lord will
come in majesty, put an end to history, gather before Him all those who ever
lived, and seal their destiny with a decisive and unalterable verdict of life
or death (1 Chronicles 16:33, Psalm 96:13, Ecclesiastes 3:17, Joel 2:30-32,
Matthew 12:36, 25:31-46, John 12:48, Acts 17:31, Romans 14:10, 2 Corinthians
5:10, 2 Thessalonians 1:6-7, Hebrews 9:27, 10:31, 2 Peter 3:7, 4:5, Revelation
6:10, 11:18, 14:9, 20:12-15).