Conference yukon::christian_v7

	I think on one hand the human soul is valueless, but on the other it is
priceless. Looking at what awaits us in the afterlife is something that is
truly worth looking forward to, but while we are on this earth, we should be
concerned more with what God has intended for us down here, than with the
afterlife. Hence, the valueless/priceless analogy. I guess I am of the mindset
that if we worry so much about where our souls are going, it may take away from
some of the stuff God has planned for us. If we believe in Him, try to follow
and be like Him the best we can, do His Will, the outcome will be there for us.
But if we spend our time worrying about it, we could miss out on a lot. 


Glen

    No need to worry at all.
    
1 John 5:13  
    These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of 
    God; in order that you may know that you have eternal life.  (NAS)

Lovely expression of reality there Ben .... I appreciated it.

Glen, your perspective on this was interesting...  You write as though any 
future life were almost disconnected from this life, in terms of what we do 
or are now affecting what we are for eternity.  I hope you don't mind if I 
examine some of your points a little, not to pick on you, but to see if we 
can get a perspective on it....

� while we are on this earth, we should be concerned more with what God has
� intended for us down here, than with the afterlife.

Hmmmm.  Like saying enjoy the road while you travel, and don't bother about 
whether it's going to the right place...

This life only takes on its fullest meaning; can only be lived 
meaningfully, when it is in the total context of God and eternity which 
give it any meaning and significance.

� I guess I am of the mindset that if we worry so much about where our souls
� are going, it may take away from some of the stuff God has planned for us.
� If we believe in Him, try to follow and be like Him the best we can, do His
� Will, the outcome will be there for us. 

But for the Christian, 'where our souls are going' is not a worry, but a 
confident assurance; the anticipation of total and utter fulfillment.  

� But if we spend our time worrying about it, we could miss out on a lot. 

The person who *worries* about eternity has not got the assurance that God 
wants us to enjoy here.  The most important thing once you get driving is 
to be facing the right way, to get where yuo want to go.  Once you're on 
the right route, you can enjoy the scenery.  What would you think of
someone who offered to drive you to catch a plane in New York, to come and
call on me, but started driving north, and when you objected, said the view
up there was nicer?  It may be so, but you could enjoy the southbound view
much more because you knew it was taking you where you needed to go! 

1 John 5:13 says :

  "I write these things to you who believe in the Name of the Son of God 
   so that you may know that you have eternal life."
                   ^^^^

No doubt left there, and it's only once you have that purpose right that 
you can know which way to turn here.

It's because he knew that he was going the right way, that Paul could say 
in Philippians 4:12 :
  "I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty.  
   I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, 
   whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want..."

Because his eternity was assured, Paul knew that whatever he did, wherever 
he was in this world was fulfilling God's purposes for him, so he could 
enjoy it.  Could say, as in Romans 8:28 : "we know that in all things God 
works for the good of those who love Him....".  

ie, it is only in being right with God and in knowing His will that we can 
have any confidence that we achieve what He has for us in this life.

The 'worry' and 'trying' suggest someone trying to make their own way to
God, and having no confidence of success - correctly, because He is the
only way, and our efforts alone are bound to fail (*our* righteous acts are
like filthy rags - Isaiah 64:6).  However, once we're on His road, our
reaching the goal relies not on our efforts, but on His.  cf Philippians 1:6
"...being confident of this, that He Who began a good work in you will
carry it forward to completion until the day of Christ Jesus".  Once He is
in control, He works through us, and all begins to be effective. 

Not a matter of 'trying', but of 'being'....  Without it we could miss out 
on everything...

					God bless
							Andrew

| <<< Note 672.3 by ICTHUS::YUILLE "Thou God seest me" >>>


| Glen, your perspective on this was interesting...  You write as though any
| future life were almost disconnected from this life, in terms of what we do
| or are now affecting what we are for eternity.  I hope you don't mind if I
| examine some of your points a little, not to pick on you, but to see if we
| can get a perspective on it....

	No prob Andrew.

| � while we are on this earth, we should be concerned more with what God has
| � intended for us down here, than with the afterlife.

| Hmmmm.  Like saying enjoy the road while you travel, and don't bother about
| whether it's going to the right place...

	Hmmm.... no, not at all. God has a plan for each and every one of us.
If we try to follow that plan, then as Mike stated a couple of replies back,
there is no need to worry about the afterlife, as by following God's plan, it
will be setting it all up for us. 

| � I guess I am of the mindset that if we worry so much about where our souls
| � are going, it may take away from some of the stuff God has planned for us.
| � If we believe in Him, try to follow and be like Him the best we can, do His
| � Will, the outcome will be there for us.

| But for the Christian, 'where our souls are going' is not a worry, but a
| confident assurance; the anticipation of total and utter fulfillment.

	I guess basically I was saying the same thing. I have known people who
spend more time worrying about being perfect instead of ministering to others.
This is something I would consider worrying about where one goes while possibly
missing what God has planned or intended for us.

| 1 John 5:13 says :

| "I write these things to you who believe in the Name of the Son of God 
| so that you may know that you have eternal life."
| ^^^^

| No doubt left there, and it's only once you have that purpose right that
| you can know which way to turn here.

	Agreed, but we're all human, so that free will thang can cloud issues
from time to time. 

| Not a matter of 'trying', but of 'being'....  Without it we could miss out
| on everything...

	Agreed. Like I said, basically we are saying the same thing, but you
just have a better way of stating it. :-)


Glen

    I think the main point I was trying to make in the root mail has been
    lost somewhere along the line. The aim of my note was to encourage us
    all to realise the value that Jesus set on saving souls (ie it was
    worth shedding His blood for) and how that should  motivate us to
    realise that behind every face out in the world there is a soul that is
    either going to Heaven or to Hell (and let's face it, the majority are
    going to Hell). 
    
    I believe the church of today needs to realise afresh the
    responsibility we have in the world today:- Keith Green said "This
    generaation of believers is responsible for this generation of souls".
    It often seems that christians today are so concerned about their
    "personal" walk with God that they lose the realisation that there is a
    world outside that is going to Hell. I believe it's time for every
    Christian to realise that just as Christ left the comfort of Heaven for
    the sake of the lost so we should be prepared to leave our 'confort
    zones' for the sake of the lost.
    
    Paul says "How will they hear without a preacher?"
    
    Our response must be "Here am I, oh Lord send me"
    
    Love
    Ben

Good, Ben.  A matter of focus. And vision.

� Keith Green said "This generation of believers is responsible for this
� generation of souls". 

Not to save them, but to show them Jesus.  That's one reason why our walk
is important, because if we walk the world's way, they will not see that
there's a difference.  Our walk is important, but it should come as part of
our (new, living-from-the-dead) nature, which is Him living within, instead 
of the world's unaided endeavours, which are otherwise motivated.  Our 
motive is His love - being expressed through us.  We *want* to be like Him.
It fulfills us to let His character grow in and through us.  This makes our 
love for the lost reflect His love, and it makes our reaching out to them 
(a) Welcome to the heart that is responding to the stirrings of the Holy 
    Spirit, and ready for - at least - a little more
(b) Revolting, to the heart that is still bent on shunning Him, and 
    establishing its own standards of righteousness without Him.

but the gospel has to be given to both (a) and (b).  That their blood will
not be on our head.... at the lowest level, but our motivation is not fear,
but love.  Love for them, yes, but even more, love for our Jesus Who died
to save souls, to populate heaven with His people, His bride...

Two I love .... :

	"A large population is a king's glory"			Proverbs 14:28

	"Your eyes will see the King in His beauty"		Isaiah 33:17

							Andrew

    Ben,
    
    This reminds me of an article I wrote recently.  Below is an extract of
    part of it.
    
    Several years ago I was involved in a one day crusade outreach at an
    amphitheater in Dayton, Ohio.  We advertised through all the local
    churches and passed out flyers on  street corners.  The main speaker,
    though not widely known, had a powerful conversion testimony from a
    life of crime and drugs to his new life in Christ and a thriving prison
    ministry.  The evening of the crusade we set up the sound system, tuned
    the instruments, prayed and prepared for the meeting.  There were
    several hundred in the crowd that night.  Several people did special
    music, including Sarah [my wife] and I.  The speaker gave his testimony
    and then an altar call.  Nobody came forward.  Not one person.  I went
    out next and taught briefly on divine healing and gave another altar
    call.  The results were no different.  Nobody came forward.  Nobody got
    saved.  Nobody was healed.  Well, this might be a pretty depressing
    story if it stopped right here.  But, then again, if it stopped here I
    wouldn't be telling it.  As we were tearing down the stage I began to
    question why nothing had happened.  All the work that had been done. 
    All the money that had been spent.  I expected great numbers.  In
    typical melancholic fashion I blamed myself for the obviously poor
    results.  But as I was wrapping up some speaker cables a car drove up
    and stopped near where Sarah was standing.  I didn't notice at first. 
    I probably would have panicked if I had since this wasn't the best of
    neighborhoods.  Sarah went over and began to talk to the woman who had
    gotten out of her car and shortly called for me.  A half mile away,
    across the river, this woman's husband had heard the music and, touched
    by the Spirit of God, came to give his heart to the Lord.  They had
    deliverately waited until they were sure the service was over before
    coming because they felt ashamed by their appearance and thought that
    they would be unwelcome.  Alone he and I sat amid thousands of empty
    chairs.  I shared with him the plan of salvation and then knelt with
    him as he accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
    
    What is the value of one man's salvation?  Thousands of dollars were
    spent on that meeting so that one man could be saved.  Incalculable man
    hours were spent in preparation and prayer so that one man could be
    saved.  The eternal value of that single soul can not be measured in
    dollars or in hours.  It can only be measured in drops of blood, the
    price of our redemption.  It can only be measured in the anguished cry
    of the One who was rejected by God for our sake.  God began to reveal
    to me just how precious one life is to Him.  For many years I witnessed
    out of a sense of duty to God.  I believe God honors that but I believe
    that when we press in and take hold of God's heart we will be compelled
    to move, not from obligation but because our heart will not allow us to
    do otherwise.  It will simply be too grievous.  God help me to value
    another man's salvation as precious as my own.
    
    [...] I challenge you to begin today... to set aside no less than one
    day each week for prayer for the lost.  Allow God to break your heart. 
    I believe that, if we do, God will break forth in our midst as we have
    never seen before, as we have desired for a long time.
    

    Last night's message was of the same as your note Kent.  A Brother
    from a church in North Carolina sang a song that brought tears to many
    eyes in the auditorium last night it was entitled;
    
    While He hung on the cross, I was on His mind...
    

    Kent
    
    Your note is beautiful and says what I was trying to say much clearer
    than I managed.
    
    Thanks very much, and I wholeheartedly agree with your challenge that
    if we really grasp Gods heart for the lost then we will see BIG results
    for His glory.
    
    Nancy
    
    How about having the whole of that song written out for us??
    
    Love
    Ben