Conference yukon::christian_v7

    In the purest sense, it is moot since God is genderless.
    
    However, also remember that God structured the family, each having
    different roles.  The father of the house is responsible for setting
    the Spiritual tone in the household.  I believe to refer to God as
    "Mother" is a form of perverting the person of God.  Moreover, the
    usage of Mother usually implies baal or idol worship.
    
    In Christ,
    
    -Jack

    
    God is our Father and earth is our Mother.  It is from her dust
    we came and she nutures us and cares for us under our Father's
    watchful eye.  We are still in the cradle as long as we live on
    her and when it is time we move on to perfect maturity to fulfil
    the purpose for which we were brought forth. 
    
    I would most probably not call my Mother father nor my Father my mother
    because if I did most people would realize I have got it a bit mixed
    up.  

    Actually, isn't it more like:
    
    God is our Father and eath was given to man and man is to be a steward
    of the earth.
    
    -Jack

    
    It depends on how one looks at it I suppose.  The Lord did give man
    dominion and direction concerning the earth.  But by creating the Earth
    as He did does it not have dominion over us and does it not provide
    nourishment for us.  
    In other words we are restricted to its attributes, we breath its air, 
    eat its food, can not leave it realm of existence, etc.
    
    I am simply saying that God used the elements of the earth in the
    process of creating us and I see this as a analogy of a mother and
    father scenario.  
    
    Adam was told to tend the garden in Eden.  In the past I have wondered
    what would man have to do to tend a perfect garden.  I now understand
    what God meant based upon a happening that occurred to me in 1978.  

    	We should address God as Jesus taught us:
    
    	Our FATHER, who art in Heaven, hallowed be thy name.
    
    	Changing our Father into our mother is doing anything BUT
    	making his name hallowed.

God is not genderless.

God is not a "man" but it does not mean He isn't "male."

When God became incarnate in Jesus Christ, He was indeed a "man" and "male"
  a definite gender.

To dispute God's gender is to dispute what the Bible has to say about
  it and is an indictment on the Bible.  It is an argument that is both
  spurious and specious in these contexts.

MM

   Since I've never seen anything in the Bible that is absolutely explicit
   about we ought to address God and how we ought not to address God, the
   following is given as my personal opinion on the matter and nothing more.

   God cares about the attitude with which we relate to Him.  He is the 
   supreme being by whom all things, including ourselves came into existence,
   and by whom all things continue to have their existence.  With a single
   word, He could speak us out of existence if He so chose.  We are dependent
   on Him for all that we are and have, including each breath which seems so
   automatic to most of us that we are unaware of our continual breathing.
   Therefore approaching God strictly on our own terms is presumptious and 
   insolent.  

   The Jewish faith so regards God's true name as holy and so far above us 
   that His name is not pronounced, instead Hashem or THE NAME is used in 
   praying to God.  God's name is so holy, that it is not written out in 
   anything that is subject to disposal or distruction, hence you see the 
   references to G-d.  Our attitude towards God should be one of awe and 
   trembling, yet God, in love,  has invited us to call Him Avinu which is the
   transliteration for the Hebrew meaning our Father.  Father is one who is 
   of our kin, from whom we have our source of being; a father's role is to 
   protect, provide for, teach, and give us our inheritance, that which will 
   enable us to be adults on our own.  It is a great honor that He has bestowed
   on us in inviting us to call him our Father.

   Now it is true that only together, male and female, does humanity bear the
   image of God and that from God comes both what we regard as feminine and
   masculine.  Furthermore, as has been pointed out, God is infinate and God
   is Spirit, being niether male nor female.  Through the inspired scriptures,
   God has made use of feminine imagery as well as masculine in 
   self-description, declaring to be to us like a nursing mother is to her 
   child whom she cradles to her bosom, or like a mother hen gathering her 
   chicks under her wings to shelter and protect them.  Yet, I do not think 
   this is the reason that many are desiring to use the term mother in 
   reference to God.  Rather I think the reason is a backlash against the 
   human abuse of the picture of what a father is, and the way in which 
   women have ignored, devalued, and subjegated over the years.  Instead of
   a protector, provider, and teacher, some earthly fathers have been abusers,
   and totalitarian tyrants.  Instead of welcoming women as equal partners,
   some men, and sadly there are many Christian and Jewish men among them, 
   have turned women into second-class citizens.

   But I don't think the answer to this deficiency in human nature, which
   denigrates the femine, and abusively wields the authority of the father
   is to change the way in which we address God or relate to him.  Rather,
   I think we ought to work to change our image of what a father is, and 
   what the proper relationship between men and women should be.  If someone
   has a hard time dealing with the concept of God as father because their
   own father was abusive, rather than calling God mother, I think their 
   image of father needs healing.  Exactly how we can help in that healing, 
   or what the individual can do to build an image of father as loving and 
   caring, I'm not sure, but certainly the Christian church as a whole and 
   each of us as individuals does bear some responsibility in working towards 
   the healing.

   Leslie

                                    CRISIS
                                     OVER
                              INCLUSIVE LANGUAGE

The Episcopal Church, like the rest of American society, has become extremely
sensitive to "politically correct" speech, especially when referring to women.
As a result, our leaders feel compelled to change our Liturgy, our hymns, and
even the Bible in order to use language which could not possibly be construed
to "offend" women.

While the attempt to use "inclusive language" to refer to human beings is not,
in itself, harmful (though it is awkward), it leads inevitably to the attempt
to use some kind of "gender neutral" language to express God's Revelation of
Himself and how He wants us to know Him and to speak to Him.  Whenever we
change the words He has given us, and substitute the words we think ought to
be used, we define for ourselves the object of our worship.  Indeed, we have
now created Him to reflect our image.  Furthermore, since the power to name
carries authority, we can now usurp His authority.  The danger is that it
easily results in a new religion, determined by and reflecting man's image.
This new religion is not Christianity.
 
God has revealed Himself consistently, throughout all the ages, in masculine
terms, as Father, as Bridegroom, as Lord.  He revealed Himself most perfectly
in Jesus, a male human being.  To change the Revelation given by God Himself
is to reject God.  The Scriptures are filled with these names for God.  Jesus
continually referred to God as "Father."  Knowing that the way we pray
determines what we believe, and how we relate to God, He taught us,

	"When you pray, say `Our Father'"

For in relationship to God, we are all feminine.  The Church is the Bride of
Christ. 

To change liturgical language in the interests of "inclusive language" is
inherently dangerous, because it changes our perception of God and substitutes
man's ideas for God's Revelation. For instance:

	� To speak of God as Creator,  Redeemer, Sustainer in order to
	  avoid calling Him by Name (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is a
	  denial of the Trinity.  It also makes a personal relationship
	  with Him impossible: it is impossible to pray in a personal way
	  to a God who has no name!

	� To say that the Resurrected Christ, Who appeared to the disciples,
	  to the women, and to 500 others, and Who will come again in glory,
	  is no longer male denies the resurrection of the body.  A
	  recognizable Jesus appeared, still male, still with a body which
	  had wounds, which could eat and drink, which could be touched. 
	  (See the Gospels and the Book of Acts)

	� To hesitate to call Jesus "Lord" (a "masculine" term) is to have
	  an excuse not to obey Him.

	� To use feminine metaphors such as "giving birth" to creation
	  contains a special danger.  It suggests that we are "of the same
	  substance" as God, rather than being created "out of nothing" and
	  completely "other" from God.  It therefore leads to the conclusion
	  that we are divine, we are gods, since we are "of the same
	  substance."

	� To worship a "goddess" (or a Mother God) is to return to paganism,
	  out of which God called us to be His people, and against which the
	  prophets continually have warned us.

                              LORD, WHO ARE YOU?

Of course all Episcopalians believe in God and certainly all hold that there
is a very close connection between the cosmos and God.  Do we not call the
cosmos "the creation"?  Is there not great concern for ecology in the name
of God?  And, are not many of us attracted by what is called "creation
spirituality"? 

However, when we look closely at what people mean when they say "God," we
find very serious differences. In fact much of the leadership of the Episcopal
Church appears to hold a view of who God is which is not that view to which
the Scriptures, Creeds and historic Liturgies point.

                            Different Views of God

The doctrines of God which seem to be held by many leaders, theologians and
teachers and which differ from what the holy, catholic church has historically
believed may be set down in simple form like this:

a. God is another name for the totality of the universe.  To be in harmony
with nature, to be truly ecologically aware, is to be in communion with God.
This is known as pantheism, a very ancient way of conceiving God.  Today it
is alive and well.  Mother nature leads to mother god.

b. God is greater than the cosmos, but in God's being the cosmos is included.
This is panentheism -- nature is in God, but God is more than nature.  So it
is said that the cosmos is God's body and as such God may be rightly called
"She" for the cosmos is continually bringing forth new life.  Feminists tend
to favour this approach.

c. God is in the process of becoming what he will be and in this becoming,
God is changing with the universe as the universe continues to evolve and
develop.  God is not the universe but God's destiny is inextricably linked
to that of the cosmos.  This is known as process theology, for God is in
the process of his own self-evolution to become what he does not yet know
he will be.  People impressed by modern scientific knowledge tend to favour
this view that God's Being is in his Becoming.

d. God is the One, that is the One which is hidden from our physical eyes,
for we only see the variety and the many.  By meditation and ascetic
discipline we can, like the Hindu holy man, see and unite ourselves with
the One and thus know internal harmony and unity.  This is monism and comes
into the churches via the New Age movement from eastern-type spirituality.

When church people hold these views then what they believe about the Gospel,
the Church, the Bible, the Sacraments and Life after death is seriously
affected.  Though they continue to use traditional Bible and liturgical
language, what they mean by the words is not that which Christians have
historically meant.  Thus we hear many calls to change the Liturgy, the
way we address God, the morality we are to live by and the Gospel we are
to preach to the world.

                           The Christian View of God

He is Trinity

Historically, based on the Jewish monotheism and on the teaching of Jesus
and his apostles, the Church has explained that the God whom she experiences,
worships and serves is best described in terms of Trinitarian Theism.  There
is one God who is eternal.  In his eternity God is a Trinity of Persons and
there is perfect communion in the Godhead between the Father, Son, and Holy
Spirit.  The God of holy love is uncreated Being and self-existent Being.

He is Transcendent and Immanent

The cosmos is the creation of this one God, for the Father creates through
the Son and by the Holy Spirit.  The universe is thus _wholly_separate_ from
the Being of God -- he wholly transcends it.  Yet the universe is wholly
preserved and kept in being and development by God -- he is immanent within
his creation.  And human beings are the stewards of the creation, made in
God's image and after his likeness.

The cosmos points to its Creator but is not itself part of God.  Rather, it
is that which God, its maker, loves and cares for.  Human beings are able to
know and experience this love, for the Second Person of the Holy Trinity of
the One God became Man and thus revealed God to mankind, and in so doing
brought salvation to the human race.  Further, the Holy Spirit is present
in the Church of God and in his world to bring unto human beings the benefits
won for us by the redeeming and reconciling work of Jesus Christ, Incarnate
Son.  Thus God is specially immanent within the universe unto those who hear
and receive the Gospel of God concerning Jesus Christ.

From this Trinitarian Theism the historic catholic and evangelical teaching
of the Church flows.  The Gospel is a word from the transcendent God to people
in this space and time; the sacraments are not merely signs of new life but of
eternal life, the life of Jesus Christ who is transcendent in his glory; the
Church is not merely a this-worldly institution but it is a heavenly society,
a pilgrim people, the Body of Christ, united to the heavenly Lord and looking
unto him for guidance, life, and salvation.

In Summary

The religion which develops from pantheism or panentheism or process theology
is not the religion which has been historically linked with Jesus of Nazareth,
when he is confessed as Christ and Lord.  Christianity, as a historical
religion, is based on the confession of Jesus as Lord, as the One who comes
from the transcendent God into space and time, in order to unite human beings
with this God, who is a Trinity of Persons, for eternal life, salvation and
blessedness.  The primary emphasis upon the _transcendence_ of God is
important; for his immanence is dependent upon it.  God is God before God
is Creator; and God will be/is God when the cosmos is no longer.  If his
immanence is put first, then the drift into pantheism or panentheism or
process theology so easily occurs.  Let God be God.

    I have recently been introduced to CHRISTIAN NOTES and have been
    reading with great joy the comments that clearly show a love for GOD.
    I have been with DEC for 10 years in the Vienna office and have always
    fealt a member of a happy family but now I want to say a member of a
    loving, joyful family that only comes in union with GOD.
    I do not usually make comments to learned people but this time I feel
    lead to comment on how we should address GOD.
    
    GOD asks us to be as little children when we come to him not childish
    but as children. I think this means Total reliance, in trust, in ammazement
    at "His" might, respectful, in innocence, in openness, hunger to
    have more of "His" love and affection and totally related having a
    personal relationship with "Him".
    
    When my daughter was very young she called me "Pete", that which she
    had picked up from others arround me. Later she became more personal
    and gave me her own special personalized name "Papsie". I didn't have
    any problem with Pete but I did prefer the individual personalized name my
    own daughter gave me and after 21 years I still love hearing it.
    
    God is a very personal God and as long as "He" is addressed in love
    "He" loves to hear the very personal name you give "Him"
    
    It is prudent whilst on this earth to prepare ourselves for the
    confrontation with God. "His" immence Love, Power, Mercy, Justice and
    the list is endless. There are also many mysteries that remain
    mysteries until God unfolds them when we are ready to understand them.
    One of these mysteries is God "Him" self