Conference yukon::christian_v7

Bob,

I couldn't get through to your node.  This subject is touched on in note
278, where 4. references discussions in the archived conferences.  These
are still available for reading only in : 

	ATLANA::CHRISTIAN_Vn

 - where 'n' is the appropriate archive version number

								Andrew

 Understand that there are a couple variations on "The Church of Christ".




Jim

    > Understand that there are a couple variations on "The Church of Christ".
    
    

    We have five variants in Australia,
    
    - Church Of Christ, Scientist,
    - Church Of Christ, Latter Day Saints,
    - Sydney Church Of Christ (LCC/BCC derived),
    - Churches of Christ, Nondenominational (independent group),
    - Churches of Christ (Federated grouping).
    
    James

   RE: 629.4 <AUSSIE::CAMERON>

   >We have five variants in Australia,

       These church are, with the exception of ICC and Mainline CoC, totally
   unrelated and are variants of each other in name only!

   >- Church Of Christ, Scientist,

       Christian Scientist

   >- Church Of Christ, Latter Day Saints,

       Mormons

   >- Sydney Church Of Christ (LCC/BCC derived),

       International Church of Christ

   >- Churches of Christ, Nondenominational (independent group),

       Mainline Church of Christ

   >- Churches of Christ (Federated grouping).

       Never heard of.

       The Sydney Church of Christ and the Churches of Christ,
   nondenominational are the only ones of the group related; both are
   Restoration churches.  ICC broke from the Mainline in the 1980s to form a
   seperate body.

   Regards,
   Tony

I visited a friend of mine on Saturday.  When we were teens we were in
the same church.  My friend has had problems off and on.  He married a
lovely wife and has several fine children.  My friend was involved in
the BCC, fell away, and is now back in.  His wife remained in throughout.

I talked to him about his decision.  I came away with a few thoughts on
the subject.

There are people in this world who, for some reason, are more resonant with
a form that many of us might term "legalistic."  He said he'd made a slow
and deliberate study of the Scriptures in regards to salvation (and the 
BCC belief in the necessity of baptism for salvation) and concluded that
the BCC position was correct.  I asked him what sources he used to perform
his study.  Stuff from a BCC affiliate.  I only commented that other sources
might have yielded different results.  

He made comment that implied that my objections were based out my feeling
of exclusion.  I told him that they weren't, because I was completely 
assured of my salvation, even if he wasn't assured of my salvation. 
Throughout, we reaffirmed our friendship, by the way.  I told him that 
my objections were not even for his personal standing with the Lord,
which I believe to be genuine.  My objection was to the addition of a
work and how this may lead some people off the mark.

I told him that it was more important for him to have unity with his family
going to the BCC (than leaving the BCC because of this doctrinal difference).
He commented that this time was different; that the discipleshipping was a
whole lot less intrusive.  He said they used to call every day, and now he
gets a call maybe once a week from his discipleship partner.  (I was
encouraged to hear this.)

My thoughts went to some other movements that began out of the desire for
a deeper walk, and through this, certain behavioral norms were established
for the purpose of calling people to come out and be separate.  As these 
movements matured, they began to recognise some of the form and function
that were instituted for good reason becoming traditions of legalism and
the fork in the road leads to further legalism on the one hand or a
transcension out of action-focus to attitude-focus.  (My BCC friend would
be quick to point out the "proper attitude" but the actions seem to cling.)
Nevertheless, I was encouraged by this small step.  I told him that I want
to see him and the BCC in five more years.  (Not that we won't get together
during those years.)

I find it curious, the parallels with some other organization, including
the archetypical Israel in the Old Testament.  The actions were important
but the action became the reason to do things.  It was the cart before the
horse syndrome.

Jesus scolded some pharisees for tithing mint and cummin but neglecting
weightier things of the Law.  He scolded them for devoting Corban to God
but neglecting their duties to their aging parents.  He scolded them for
washing the cup on the outside but leaving the inside filthy.  Was Jesus
saying that tithing, dedicating, and washings were wrong?  Absolutely not!
Jesus said, "these things ought ye do, without neglecting the other."  What
is the other?  

What does the Lord require of Thee but to do justice, love mercy and walk 
humbly with your God.  The attitude MUST precede the action.  And so, my
BCC friend was baptized under their understanding of salvation.  (I didn't
ask him if he needed to be rebaptized. ?)  His attitude was one of belief
and faith; his action followed through.  I told him that my attitude of 
faith preceded my baptism... but it wasn't with the understanding of what 
the act means according to BCC doctrine, you see.

Back to my original point: if some people need this form or sense of 
identifying, of what value would it be for me to jeopardize a friendship?
In this forum, many of you know I opposed the BCC doctrine on salvation
and would do so in a heartbeat again... in this discussion forum that seeks
to discern the Truth from Scripture with the best scholarship we can obtain.
And even though many of us Christians are considered "the mission field"
because to the BCC, we're still unsaved, I am unwilling to point a reflective
finger back and say that people saved under this ministry aren't saved
by faith, too.  Rather, being confident in God's affrimation by His Word,
refute error when it is encountered and save the other energies for some
more important work.

It took the Catholic church a while before it could view Christians outside
the church as saved, even if they think a more perfect understanding is to 
be had under their traditions.  And the Nazarene church of 30 years ago is
also a bit more mature than it use to be in regard to those outside of its
doctrinal foundations.  I'll give them a bit more time, and cehck in with
my friend from time to time as he also matures in the Lord.

Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are
    spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering
    thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

Mark