Conference yukon::christian_v7

    It concerned an investigation into his business dealings.  There were
    two aspects:
    
    1)  The sale of the Family Channel from non-profit CBN to a For-Profit
    company, which is also controlled by Pat.  "Primetime" stated that for
    $180k [my approximation] Pat and his son Tim were able to have a
    controlling interest in the new company.  It was stated that they made
    $100 million on the sale.
    
    2)  Pat has headed up two pyramid type companies.  The first sold
    coupon books and the second vitamins and diet pills.  It was stated
    that the business mis-represented the prospects for prosperity to folks
    investing in the business.
    
    The most disturbing part of it to me, was that the people that formally
    ran these businesses for Pat gave the most damaging testimony.
    
    Bing

 Interesting stuff on Pat Robertson.  I do watch his show occasionally (well
 not much now that I don't have cable).


 They sure love digging stuff up on Christians, though, don't they?

Jim

   re: Pat Robertson...
   
   [ Should this be a new note... otherwise, this conversation will sink
     into the bit bucket in a few days...  just wondering.. ]

   I didn't see the show, but based on Bing's summary - 

   o The sale of the Family Channel - what didn't they like: making a
     profit (oh, for shame!), the Family Channel being owned by a
     for-profit company now, or the Robertson's having controlling
     interest in a new company that can make a profit?  
   
     I personally can't see what the stink is here... unless they were
     questioning the ethics of the action, but even then, what's the big
     deal - at least on the surface (3rd hand info for me), it doesn't
     look like anything wrong happened.  Besides, don't the Feds have to
     approve (or at least review) something as big as the sale of a cable
     television station?


   o Mis-representation of business facts - well, without seeing their
     business plan, their products, or anything else about them, I would
     personally take that with a large grain of salt.  The media has
     never looked favorably on non-traditional businesses, especially
     multi-level (pyramid type, to quote Bing) businesses.  Yes, there is
     a potential for deceit in a business like this, but so what... we've
     all heard of less-than-honorable auto mechanics too, and I bet the
     media wouldn't have made a stink about Pat picking up a spark plug
     wrench.
   
     The Federal Trade Commission has a great deal to say about
     multi-level businesses, and I would hope that if he is being accused
     of wrong-doing that they would be involved in an official review of
     his business.  I find it very hard to believe that someone with as
     much visibility as PR would be able to pull off some sort of a
     business scam for very long without getting caught.
   
   Sounds to me like they (media) had a slow week...  <sigh> ...
   
   Regards,
   
   - Tom

    >o The sale of the Family Channel - what didn't they like: making a
    >profit (oh, for shame!), the Family Channel being owned by a
    >for-profit company now, or the Robertson's having controlling
    >interest in a new company that can make a profit?
    
    They interviewed a lawyer who said it was suspect because Robertson had
    controlling interest in both sides of the transaction.  The show didn't
    dwell much on this, the majority of the piece concerned the
    multi-layered companies.
    
    >o Mis-representation of business facts - well, without seeing their
    
    This is being investigated by both the State of Fla. and State of Penn.
    The person who was in charge of Marketing said that he felt that PR and
    everyone else involved owed an apology to the folks who had signed up
    to be a representative.
    
    I hope we don't need a separate note for this.  I thought it might be
    worthy of some conversation on a slow afternoon.  I imagine that Pat
    would have some things to say in response on todays 700 club (I also
    got rid of my cable so I won't be able to tune in).  Maybe someone
    could watch and update us.
    
    Bing

    We've been talking about this man over in CP again.  I learned a few
    things about him this weekend at our men's retreat that I thought I
    would share/cross-post here.
    
    It seems one of the big reasons that Mr. Robertson is involved in the
    things that he's in because he embraces Dominion theology.  Dominion 
    theology (aka Kingdom Now) is the stance where Christians believe that we 
    are currently in the millenial reign of Christ and the Second Coming of 
    Christ has already occurred, but in the spiritual realm.  They believe 
    that Christians are responsible for setting up earth to a point where it 
    is acceptable to present to Christ for Him to come down and physically 
    rule over us here on earth.  
    
    When I look around today, I simply cannot understand how they justify
    this.  With all the violence and the lions still eating the lambs, it's
    obvious that we aren't in the millenium.
    
    This is one of the reasons why Mr. Robertson is so active in politics
    through the Christian Coalition.  The faster we can get our land back
    in order and restore morality, the faster Christ will join us in His
    "millenial" era.  When he sold the Family Channel, he put all the money
    into an escrow account that matures in 2025.  Part of the reason was so
    that he could continually finance the political efforts.
    
    A pastor I know talked about this at our men's retreat this weekend. 
    He typically sits in the middle seat on flights so that he can witness
    to the person on either side (as God leads).  On a recent flight, he
    sat next to a man reading one of Hal Lindsay's new books.  Pastor John
    didn't reveal who he was but just asked, "Are you interested in that
    stuff?"  The man replied, "No, I don't believe this.  I only read it to
    learn about the *ENEMY*."  It turns out that he was a Dominion theology
    believer as Mr. Robertson is.  This man said, "The Rapture Christians
    are the ones who are *PREVENTING* Christ from coming down now to join us
    in His millenium."  Pastor John said to him, "What about when Jesus
    told of 2 men being in the field, one was taken the other left?  What
    about when Jesus said it will be as in the days of Noah and Lot?"  The
    man replied, "You mean the passage in Matthew?"  Pastor John said, "No. 
    The one in Luke 17."  This man said, "Well, we've never been really
    able to explain that passage."
    
    They may be saved, but what they believe doesn't follow what Jesus
    taught in scripture.  When Christ raptures His church, I'm sure He will
    take them anyway.
    
    Mike

    Wow Mike I'd never  heard of this Dominion theology.. :-(

Mike, 

� ...because he embraces Dominion theology.  Dominion theology (aka Kingdom
� Now) is the stance where Christians believe that we are currently in the
� millenial reign of Christ and the Second Coming of Christ has already
� occurred, but in the spiritual realm.  They believe that Christians are
� responsible for setting up earth to a point where it is acceptable to
� present to Christ for Him to come down and physically rule over us here on
� earth. 

I'd heard a view like that for post-millennialism, but maintaining that 
this was the millennium without Christ.  The church achieves world 
'perfection' to welcome Christ at His return.  Similar to Dominion 
theology, but without the 'secret spiritual second coming....'

Are people afraid of losing their status as leaders if they don't come up 
with a 'new' idea to impose on eschatology?  Politicians are a yawn.

							Andrew

Thanks, Mike.  I want to investigate this more.  First time hearing
of this for me too.

Lew

    I still wouldn't call the Christian Coalition a bad thing because of
    this.  PR and the rest are still saved, just a little misguided on the
    scriptures.  I think it's great to keep Christian voters informed on
    where their politicians stand regardless of your theology.
    
    Mike

>PR and the rest are still saved, just a little misguided on the scriptures.

  { b r o a d   s m i l e }

    
    Re .5
    
    Interesting that he referred to HL and those who don't believe as the 
    Dominionists do as "the enemy". Hmmmmm....I thought that term was
    reserved for Satan.....
    
    RG

    My thoughts exactly, Ryan.

Whew!  I hadn't quite realised ... I thought they actually *meant* the
enemy there!  Either the man the pastor met is a misguided extremist, or
the whole organisation is becoming seriously corrupted, and distracted away
from the battle front. 

I had heard of Pat Robertson's book, "The New World Order" as possibly 
being worth reding.  In the light of this, I would presume it's not.

Thanks for the warning!

							Andrew

>Either the man the pastor met is a misguided extremist, or
>the whole organisation is becoming seriously corrupted, and distracted away
>from the battle front. 
>
>I had heard of Pat Robertson's book, "The New World Order" as possibly 
>being worth reding.  In the light of this, I would presume it's not.

Don't rush to judgment based on what might be the secondhand account of
a possible misguided extremist.  Caution is advised when supposed 
representatives of a movement behave in an untoward way, but let us
not be like others who toss the toddler when trashing the tot's tepid 
bathwater.

Hi Mark,

I recall a rumor of Pat Robertson's stance on this issue, now that Mike
mentioned it. As the book is concerned with eschatology, it will therefore
not be on the subject / aspects I had hoped for.  Ergo - not buy.  

Not affected by the possible extremist.  Different paragraph!

If I *were* to buy this book, it would be to gain awareness of the dominion
stance, rather than to expect further information on a view I hold myself. 

							Andrew

Hi All,

There have been some rather hard things brought up regarding Pat Robertson
in the past few weeks. He has been trying to start a nutritional supplement
direct marketing company around the nation and from the reports I have seen,
it borders on the ragged edge of the legal fence.

Anyone else out there know anymore about it?

John I

    re .16
    
    The report on Primetime Live about this is what started this topic.  I
    have since heard a report that PR has sold his interest in the company
    for $1.00.
    
    Bing

    Dominion theology?  I've never seen anything on his show that puts him
    in this boat.  In fact, I've seen his video "Signs of the Times", and
    it would seem to take a Biblical stance on the end-times.
    
    From what I've gathered, he believes we are in the end-times (not the
    millenium), and that Jesus will return soon. 
    
    Now, this is based on my limited knowledge of the man, and what he
    espouses in public.  No one knows the mind of another.
    
    -steve

My wife just read the book about a month ago, and from her remarks
and some parts she read to me, I have to say that it seems well
worthwhile.  A lot of it is, or is meant to be, factual.  I also
have never seen anything on the show to indicate the dominion
theology.  However, I think we should always be cautious about
"stars" in the church.

Lew

    Agreed.  Always be discerning.
    
    -steve

Right, Lew...  I'll browse it before I decide!  
If I get round to it at all!

							Andrew

    
    I don't think this assertion is correct about PR.  I believe "dominian"
    may also translate to "reconstruction".  there are super learned men
    who do assert that we are to reconstruct the legal system contained in
    the mosaic.  Rushdooney is one such man - probably the leader.  Gary
    North (Ollie's brother) is a theologian of this type.  Gary DeMar is
    another.  They all have an extraordinary knowledge of history and the
    Scriptures, particularly the OT.  I had read once that PR found some of
    their propositions to be valid which implies to me that he is not one
    of them.
    
    One thing I have noticed and that is that these men (not PR) are
    extremely agressive in denouncing the likes of Hal Lindsey, for
    example.  
    
    These men have written some excellent books describing the
    Christian history of America, in a scholarly fashion.
    
    jeff