Conference yukon::christian_v7

    It's funny Kent... I saw Benny Hinn prior to his "slap on the wrist"
    regarding wealth and then after.
    
    Although the AoG doctrine and mine do not align in totality, I must say
    that when watching him, my spirit seems to testify that this man is
    genuine.   It really disturbed me at first because of the fact that his
    ministry is so contrary to that which I've been taught to receive.
    
    I'm still watching carefully this man's ministry...
    
    

    AG sure has come a long way!  I'm not totally convinced that the health
    & wealth movement is absent within AG either.  Neither do they preach
    of God's grace, but that's another rathole.  
    
    I sincerely hope for everyone involved that Hinn's change of personal
    doctrine is genuine.
    
    Mike

Just the reason that he joined - because he knows that he needs to remain
accountable to the body of Christ - speaks volumes about the teachable state
of his heart.  I haven't really read much of anything by Benny Hinn except
his retraction in Charisma of some of his former doctrines.

Paul

    I will watch carefully.  I think the stated reasons show an excellent
    spirit.  But, I get the opposite reaction from Nancy when I watch him
    on TV.  My background in healing has always been "at the bedside" out
    of the limelight, the elders laying hands on and praying - not the big
    production television show.
    
    Daryl

    I wanted to let others respond before I put in my two cents.  I have
    not heard Benny Hinn since October of 1993 when he was at the Omni here
    in Atlanta.  I opted not to go when he was here last August.  I met
    Benny Hinn in 1980 and found him to be a genuinely humble and sincere
    brother in the Lord.  The anointing upon his life and ministry was
    impressive.  In my opinion, the ministry got ahead of his personal
    relationship with God over the years and caused him to fall into error. 
    I had heard that he received correction for these doctrines and had
    also heard that he had publicly repudiated his prior stand but I did
    not hear from whom he had received correction or in what form of media
    he had made his statements.  I cautiously excited to see this return
    to doctrinal balance.  I believe that placing himself in a position of
    accountability will be of great benefit to him.  The issue of
    accountability is one of the main reasons I went into the AG, having
    seen doctrinal error and inconsistancy in the charismatic movement.
    
    Kent
    

    Kent, like I said, I'm not convinced that AG hasn't "adopted" some of
    the health & wealth-postive confession nonsense.
    
    Mike (an ex-AG'er)

    Mike,
    
    Are you trying to push an issue here or what?  I know that you have
    disagreements with the AG and you're happy where you are?  I'm happy
    that you're happy and well fed.  As far as I know I have never
    criticized you for leaving the AG nor have I suggested you come back
    (proselytizing is not my 'thing', there's too many lost out in the
    world).  As "an ex-AG'er" you are undoubtedly aware that each assembly
    is autonomous and that the General Council of the Assemblies of God is
    a fellowship of ministers who have agreed to abide by and operate
    within the constitution and by-laws of the fellowship.  The Assemblies
    of God has officilly denounced the "health & wealth-positive confession
    nonsense" but it has not been made a part of the constitution and
    bylaws which leaves open the possibility for a minister in the Assembly
    to espouse that doctrine.  The position was presented, ratified and
    published via the bi-annual General Council several years ago.  I'm
    sorry you're not convinced but if you are going to lump the entire
    Assemblies of God in with the Word of Faith Movement then the burden of
    proof is in your court not mine.
    
    Kent (an AG evangelist)
    

    Kent, I know the Council has officially rejected it.  I apologize for
    singling out AG, when there are other denominations that H&W have
    infiltrated on a subtle level.  All I'm saying is that there isn't a
    100% rejection across the board in all churches by all pastors.  You
    sort of said the same.  Sorry to mislead you in thinking that AG is
    100% H&W.  That wasn't my intention.
    
    (off topic here) BTW - since you are an AG evangelist, could I possibly 
    ask you a question about salvation by grace?  The concept is expressed
    in the 16 Tenets of Faith, but in my 17 years with AG, in different
    states, I don't recall anyone ever teaching it.  Do you teach it?  This
    is probably the thing I regret the most in my years with them.  I was
    living a good Christian life, but still felt led to be born again all
    the time because of what was being said from the pulpit.  Do you think
    it is taught enough in AG?
    
    thanks,
    Mike

    Mike,
    
    Explanation accepted.  No apology necessary.  Given your explanation
    that there is not 100% compliance with the position paper, yes, we
    agree.
    
    (off topic response) - The short answer is yes, whenever I preach or
    teach salvation the focus is on grace through faith.  My ministry is on
    several levels.  As a 'pulpit evangelist', my focus is primarily on
    healing and equipping the saints.  As a side note to this response to
    the off topic request, the AG categorizes any non-pastoral ministry as
    evangelistic.  Missionaries are considered pastors because they work
    from one church, although it may be overseas.  Using only the five-fold
    or four-fold ministry classifications in Ephesians (some group pastor
    and teacher together) then apostle, prophet and evangelist would all be
    called evangelist in the AG.  Second, I'm involved in personal
    evangelism and the training of laymen (I hate that term) in personal
    evangelism.  Third, when not on the road, I teach a foundations class
    with my pastor for the new converts.  One week of this twelve week
    course is devoted to Grace and Mercy.
    
    In my opinion the health and wealth doctrine is in direct opposition to
    God's grace.  It demands that IF I DO thus and such then GOD MUST DO
    thus and such.  It creates a 'give to get' mentality.  God said that he
    would bless Abraham so that he could bless the nations.  God's grace
    creates a 'get to give' attitude.
    

    This weekend, I read "Good Morning, Holy Spirit", and almost finished
    "The Anointing", both by Benny Hinn. Amazing, awesome books! Benny
    seems to be genuine, and the Spirit of God must certainly be upon him
    
    To read what goes on in the meetings is awesome. To read the accounts
    of the continued "Acts of the Holy Spirit", was a blessing.
    
    Because of the position God has place Benny in, he is subject to more
    than usual attacks from the enemy. The press reports, well, I don't
    give them much credit. Why don't they give "good reports" of the
    wonderful things God is doing through Benny? People are being saved,
    and healed. God bless him, and we should continue to pray for him, and
    others, who are in positions of spiritual authority, being used of God
    to reach the world.
    
    In His love, by His grace
    
    Bob

    I'm glad to hear you teach it.  I wish more AG churches did.  It goes a
    long way towards healing frustrated Christians.  I was always led to
    believe that if a believer stumbles (i.e., not a direct deliberate sin
    or rejection against God, but an occasional mistake), I have lost my
    salvation and must be born again over and over again.  I was at the
    altars every Sunday night to repent, rededicate, and renew the salvation 
    which I thought I had lost.  It got to the point where I knew I was
    bound to fail again and would pray that Christ would rapture us on
    Sunday night and spare me the grief.  I never looked at it this way at
    the time, but I obviously had a lack of assurance in my salvation. 
    Because of this, the joy of my salvation was robbed from me.  I still 
    keep in touch with my AG friends and I'm just shocked at how many of them 
    struggle the same way.  We all never talked about it because we thought we 
    were the only ones with the "problem."  It appears it is a real problem 
    in the church.

    But not everyone has the problem.  The other general type of Christian
    are those that appear to be the "Super Christians."  These are the ones
    who know they have reached a level where they are much less prone to
    stumbling.  This group is more prone to spiritual pride because of their 
    "perfection."  

    Group 1 above sees group 2 in their church every week and strive to be
    like them, but just become more miserable because they know they aren't
    perfect.  Group 1 sees Group 2 doing all the speaking in tongues, all
    the interpretations, praying for everyone at the altars, etc.  They
    want to be like that as well, but are stuck worrying about their
    salvation and can't get past it.  Group 2 doesn't realize yet that they 
    aren't perfect and are contrary to 1 John 1.  It's a vicious cycle and I 
    can clearly see it in all the churches I grew up in.  

    A works equals righteousness theology leads either to terror and fear or 
    to pride and haughtiness.  I lived in needless fear over my salvation
    and I praise God for rescuing me from this bondage.  Now my heart aches
    for those that I know that still struggle with this.  

    God often uses the foolish things to confound the ways.  I've
    personally experienced this in God's loving grace.  The argument on
    grace has always been that if you give Christians too much assurance of
    salvation through grace, they are more prone to a sinful life.  The
    truth of my experience is that when you start to grasp the concept of
    God's grace, you are so overwhelmed that you can't get enough of Him
    and His word.  You grow stronger and the joy of your salvation returns. 
    This is the kind of vicious cycle we could all use.  Guilt makes you
    more prone to temptation.  Grace makes you resist temptation.

    Praise God!
    Mike

    Looking at him brings back the story of Ananias and Sapphira. The
    couple sold a piece of prperty and only gave a small portion of what
    belonged to God.  Peter said, "Ananias why has Satan filled your heart
    tolie to the Holy Spirit?"  (Acts)5:3
    Ananias died instantly. A few hours later his wife rushed up and peter
    asked, "Tell me, is this the price you and Ananias got for the land?"
    "Yes," she siad, "that is the price," Peter said to her, "How is it
    that you hve agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the
    feet of those  who have buried your husband are at the door, and they
    will carry you out.  The immediately she feel down at his feet and
    breathed her last." (Acts 5:7-10)
    I have found out that sin against the Spirit is dangerous. How can he
    get up there and do what he does if it is not real. I have been told
    that if you dont understand the works of the Spirit, don't talk about
    them: it is better to keep quiet. I dont know. I will have to rely on
    the Holy Spirit to see if he is telling the truth. 

    Re: Note 610.13 by CSC32::DAWSON

�    Looking at him brings back the story of Ananias and Sapphira.
    
�    I have found out that sin against the Spirit is dangerous. How can he
�    get up there and do what he does if it is not real.
    
    Keep in mind that the Ananias/Sapphira story was a singular event
    during the early formation of the Church. In my opinion, they were
    judged so harshly/immediately because of how important it was that the
    Church get started with the proper understanding of God's holiness.
    Such is obviously not the case today. If God were to instantly strike
    dead everyone who sinned against Him the human race would have been
    extict long ago.
    
    	BD�

    Re: Ananias and Sapphira
    
    At least you know being "slain in the Spirit" is Biblical. ;-)  The
    long-term effects are bad though and it's a one-time event.
    
    God explains in His word why this is allowed...
    
Deuteronomy 13:1
If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a
sign or a wonder,

Deuteronomy 13:2
And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying,
Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;

Deuteronomy 13:3
Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of
dreams: ***for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD
your God with all your heart and with all your soul.***

Deuteronomy 13:4
Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments,
and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
    
    Mike

    Has anyone heard about a wrongful death lawsuit filed against Mr. Hinn?
    
    thanks,
    Mike