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Conference yukon::christian_v7

Title:The CHRISTIAN Notesfile
Notice:Jesus reigns! - Intros: note 4; Praise: note 165
Moderator:ICTHUS::YUILLEON
Created:Tue Feb 16 1993
Last Modified:Fri May 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:962
Total number of notes:42902

607.0. "For Every Woman" by GIDDAY::SCHWARZ () Wed Oct 12 1994 00:51

I was given this last night at our mens fellowship.
    
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For Every Woman

For every woman who is tired of acting weak when she knows she is strong,
there is a man who is tired of appearing strong when he feels vulnerable.

For every woman who is tired of acting dumb, there is a man who is burdened
with the constant expectation of "knowing everything".

For every woman who is tired of being called "an emotional female", there is
a man who is denied the right to weep and to be gentle.

For every woman who is called unfeminine when she competes, there is a man
for whom competition is the only way to prove his masculinity.

For every woman who is tired of being a sex object, there is a man who must
worry about his potency.

For every woman who feels "tied down" by her children, there is a man who
is denied the full pleasures of shared parenthood.

For every woman who is denied meaningful employment or equal pay, there
is a man who must bear full financial responsibility for another human being.

For every woman who was not taught the intricacies of an automobile, there
is a man who was not taught the satisfactions of cooking.

For every woman who takes a step toward her own liberation, there is a man
who finds the way to freedom had been made a little easier.

Nancy R. Smith

    
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T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name		DateLines
607.1COVERT::COVERTJohn R. CovertWed Oct 12 1994 00:573
Sounds like a myn's fellowship.

Ooops.  Wrong file.
607.2POWDML::FLANAGANI feel therefore I amWed Oct 12 1994 10:3614
    Nancy,
    
    that is exactly the point of my interpretation of feminism.  Woman's
    liberation is part of the liberation of all people.  Thanks for
    entering it. 
    
    All oppression is systemic.  Everyone participates in the oppression. 
    Every one feels the pain of the oppression.
    
    Jesus does preach a wonderful liberation theology.
    
                                    Patricia
    
                                           Patricia
607.3Freedom without Jesus is just another wallODIXIE::HUNTWed Oct 12 1994 10:5517
    John 8:36 "If therefore the Son shall make you free, you shall be free
    indeed."
    
    I love Wayne Watson's song "Freedom".   It's about the Berlin wall
    coming down and how people, if they don't know Jesus--will still be
    bound.  "Freedom, people cry for freedom, but freedom without Jesus is
    just another wall."
    
    True freedom comes when we can get beyond our own "rights", because if
    we're focusing on our rights, we're focusing on ourselves rather than
    Jesus.  We need to abide in Him, submit to one another (Eph 5:21) and love 
    each other with His love.  Jesus will tear down the walls of slavery
    and division in our lives as we submit ourselves to Him.
    
    In Christ,
    
    Bing
607.4PAULKM::WEISSTrade freedom for His security-GAIN bothWed Oct 12 1994 11:2517
Amen, Bing.

I have been, in recent months, holding up the entire concept of "standing up
for my rights" against Scripture to see how it matches.  I've lived most of
my life staking a lot of who I am and what I believe on the necessity to
stand up for our rights.  But I'm finding that concept to be quite lacking in
Scriptural support, in fact to be consistently and repeatedly spoken against.

I'm seeking right now in my life to "Demolish arguments and every pretension
that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and take captive every
thought to make it obedient to Christ." (2 Cor 10:5)  Every action and
thought is examined through the lens of "Will this draw me closer to Christ,
or will it create distance from Him?"  I've been finding that standing up for
my rights, and the focus on myself and against others that go along with
that, create distance from Christ and not closeness.

Paul
607.5end oppression POWDML::FLANAGANI feel therefore I amWed Oct 12 1994 12:1530
    Based on the inspiration from my Church, The Unitarian/Universalist
    Church, I have become a opponent of one of the major oppressions
    occuring in the twentieth century.  Since it is not directly an
    oppression against me, I can be much more powerful and much more
    effective than when I speak out against the oppression against women,
    which too many people can then dismiss as just another woman belly
    aching.  By speaking out against an oppression that only indirectly
    impacts my life, I can also be assured that it is not self
    righteousness, and self protection that is motivating my behavoir.
    
    It has been a wonderful lesson for me.  It has clearly shown me that
    all oppressions are related.  The mentality that allows for the
    oppression of one group is the very same mentality that allows for the
    oppression of all minority groups even when those groups are not a
    numerical minority.
    
    And a lone women, on the street where no respectable women would be. 
    During a twelve year menstrual cycle, which renders her ritually
    unclean.  She dares to do the unspeakable.  Touch a man as he passes
    by.  Rendering him according to Jewish Law ritually unclean.
    
    And she is healed.  Not by Jesus.  But by her Faith in Jesus.  And
    Jesus accepts her, and talks to her, and loves her.
    
    Jesus is a wonderful, radical, revolutionary person.  The Scriptures
    are powerful in their denunciation of all oppression.
    
                                      Patricia
607.6MIMS::CASON_KWed Oct 12 1994 12:3017
    Patricia,
    
    [Off subject, slightly]  The woman with the issue of blood was most
    certainly healed by Jesus.  It was her faith that bridged the gap
    between God and her need but the healing virtue flowed from Jesus. 
    Otherwise he would not have said, "Who touched me?"  There was a crowd
    of people around and any one of them could have and would have touched
    him but only one touched him in faith believing that she would receive
    something from him (or through him if you prefer).  "Virtue (power) has
    gone out from me."  Without Jesus, the woman would not have been
    healed.  [We now return to our regularly scheduled program, already in
    progress]
    
    In Him,
    
    Kent
607.7DPDMAI::HUDDLESTONIf it is to be, it's up to meWed Oct 12 1994 12:404
    Ok, now I'm in the mood to read this again.  Where is it located?
    
    
    Donna
607.8Lord, ... speak the word only, and I shall be healedCOVERT::COVERTJohn R. CovertWed Oct 12 1994 13:307
Luke 8:40-56

The story of Jairus and of the woman with the issue of blood are closely
related.  Jairus' faith appears to be further increased as he sees the
woman healed.

/john
607.9PAULKM::WEISSTrade freedom for His security-GAIN bothWed Oct 12 1994 13:4052
> I have become a opponent of one of the major oppressions
>     occuring in the twentieth century. 

Blessings on your minstry, Patricia.  Yes, part of Jesus' work on earth was
to "Proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind,
to release the oppressed."  And seeking release for the oppressed is part of
our calling to be the Body of Christ here on earth.

>By speaking out against an oppression that only indirectly
>    impacts my life, I can also be assured that it is not self
>    righteousness, and self protection that is motivating my behavoir.

Yes, I'm beginning to suspect that we shouldn't focus on an oppression that
we suffer from.  I think as human beings we have too hard of a time
separating our own self interest from the benefit of rescuing people from
oppression.

>    It has been a wonderful lesson for me.  It has clearly shown me that
>    all oppressions are related.  

I'm not sure I'm fully with you on this, or on where I've seen this taken in
other contexts.  I can understand and agree that a mindset that allows
oppression is common between oppressions.  But my experience of this
'awareness' of the commonality of oppression is that it often leads to
looking at people in general, and more specifically at certain groups, as
"potential oppressors."  I've seen it become every bit as dehumanizing as the
things it is fighting against.  I'm not suggesting that this be ignored, but
it seems that this mindset can lead all too often to becoming just "wise as
serpents" and losing "innocent as doves."

>    And she is healed.  Not by Jesus.  But by her Faith in Jesus. 

As Kent mentioned, the two things [by Jesus] and [by her faith in Jesus] are
not mutually exclusive, but are in fact both necessary pieces.  Her faith was
crucial, as evidenced by the fact that Jesus could do no mighty work in
Nazareth, because of their lack of faith.  But to assert that her faith was
ALL that brought about her healing is to render Jesus unnecessary.  Then she
could have faith in crystals or in anything else and be healed.

>    Jesus is a wonderful, radical, revolutionary person.  The Scriptures
>    are powerful in their denunciation of all oppression.

It's true that the Scriptures are powerful in their denunciation of all
oppression.  But that is not the only message of Scripture, not by a long
shot.  The Scriptures are powerful in proclaiming many other truths.  As an
example that seems relevant to this discussion, the Scriptures are extremely
powerful in their assertion that we are not to look out for ourselves, but to
seek Jesus, and to seek the salvation and blessing of those around us.  A
mindset that looks at Scripture through a lens of "Speaks against oppression"
will miss VOLUMES of what Scripture is trying to say.

Paul
607.10I agree that God is against oppressionODIXIE::HUNTWed Oct 12 1994 13:4825
    I too am against oppression.  This past Sunday we studied Ephesians
    6:1-9 (We have been doing a study on the book of Ephesians).  The
    first two questions were:
    	1) What idea spoke to you the most and
        2) What idea troubled you the most
    
    vs 4 spoke to me the most, "fathers do not provoke your children to
    anger".
    
    The verses that troubled me the most were probably the verses to slaves
    and their masters.  Paul told the slaves to render service, as to the
    Lord, rather than to men.  He told the masters to give up threatening,
    knowing that both their Master and yours is in heaven, and there is no
    partiality with Him.
    
    Actually Paul was speaking out against oppression to the slave owners. 
    He was being progressive for his day.  Slaves were thought of as
    things, not people.  Paul said that both the slave and master are equal
    in God's sight.  The bible is against oppression.  The focus
    always comes back to our freedom being in Jesus
    
    
    Love in Him,
    
    Bing
607.11the ShamashFRETZ::HEISERGrace changes everythingWed Oct 12 1994 14:007
>    And a lone women, on the street where no respectable women would be. 
>    During a twelve year menstrual cycle, which renders her ritually
>    unclean.  She dares to do the unspeakable.  Touch a man as he passes
>    by.  Rendering him according to Jewish Law ritually unclean.
    
    ...and her reaching for the tassel on Jesus' tallit is a whole sermon
    in itself as well!
607.12POWDML::FLANAGANI feel therefore I amWed Oct 12 1994 14:0662
>    It has been a wonderful lesson for me.  It has clearly shown me that
>    all oppressions are related.  

*I'm not sure I'm fully with you on this, or on where I've seen this taken in
*other contexts.  I can understand and agree that a mindset that allows
*oppression is common between oppressions.  But my experience of this
*'awareness' of the commonality of oppression is that it often leads to
*looking at people in general, and more specifically at certain groups, as
*"potential oppressors."  I've seen it become every bit as dehumanizing as the
*things it is fighting against.
    
    Every person is capable of oppression.  To declare war on oppression
    means just as much declare war on our own human urge to oppress as it
    does to stand up for the one being oppressed.
    
>    And she is healed.  Not by Jesus.  But by her Faith in Jesus. 

    There is no question.  Jesus is the object of her faith.  She is healed
    exclusively by her Faith in Jesus.  I am study Mark right now so am
    familiar with the nuances of the Mark version.  Throughout Mark, Jesus
    potrays the Disciples as having little faith and not always able to
    heal because of their little faith.  In his home town, he does few
    healings because of the lack of faith of his neighbors.  I exclusively
    recognize that her Faith is in Jesus.
    
>    Jesus is a wonderful, radical, revolutionary person.  The Scriptures
>    are powerful in their denunciation of all oppression.

It's true that the Scriptures are powerful in their denunciation of all
oppression.  But that is not the only message of Scripture, not by a long
shot.  The Scriptures are powerful in proclaiming many other truths.  As an
example that seems relevant to this discussion, the Scriptures are extremely
powerful in their assertion that we are not to look out for ourselves, but to
seek Jesus, and to seek the salvation and blessing of those around us.  A
mindset that looks at Scripture through a lens of "Speaks against oppression"
will miss VOLUMES of what Scripture is trying to say.
    
    I don't think so particularly if we recognize that part of human
    sinfulness is our ability to oppress others.  Rather than oppress
    others we are called to love others, even our enemies.  A major theme
    of the prophets is to stand up and speak out against oppression of the
    widows, orphans, sick, prisoners etc. 
    
    We are called by scripture to be in right relationship with God.  We
    can only do that if we are also in right relationship with ourselves,
    i.e. know our own limitations as well as our capacity to love, and
    right relationship with our neighbors who are all the people of the
    earth.  We cannot be in right relationship with a neighbor if that
    neighbor is hungry and we do not feed him/her.  If that neighbor does
    not have sheltar and we do not provide him/her with sheltar.  Etc, Etc.
    
    The Kingdom of God will blossom on earth when all people are in right
    relationship with each other and with God.
    
    That is the main message of Liberation Theology.
    
                                          Patricia                      
    
    

Paul