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Conference yukon::christian_v7

Title:The CHRISTIAN Notesfile
Notice:Jesus reigns! - Intros: note 4; Praise: note 165
Moderator:ICTHUS::YUILLEON
Created:Tue Feb 16 1993
Last Modified:Fri May 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:962
Total number of notes:42902

584.0. "More than Conquerors" by N2DEEP::SHALLOW (Psalms 13) Tue Sep 27 1994 13:25

    For the benefit of any and all, please discuss Romans 8:37:
    
    But, in all things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved
    us.
    
    This verse has never been made real to me, as I have always felt "more
    than conquered" thusfar in life. Is this a "now" accomplisment, or
    something that will happen in a future time period?
    
    Thank you, and God bless
    
    Bob
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584.1ICTHUS::YUILLEThou God seest meTue Sep 27 1994 14:0035
Good one, Bob! 

I think we're all very aware of not always living completely in the victory
that we're assured is ours.  That is why we're urged to offer our bodies as
living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God (Romans 12:1) - ie, letting Him
live in and through us.  There is a concious decision to let Him reign
there each moment, as His perfection begins to replace our fallen nature.
Then He touches on another area where we have to learn to live in victory...

He has won the victory, and given it to us.  We have the authority to live
in it, but need to learn to exercise the will power to put it into
practise. The authority aspect is reflected in 1 John 5:3-5 : 

 "This is love for God: to obey His commands.  And His commands are not 
  burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world.  This is the 
  victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.  Who is it that 
  overcomes the world? Only he who believes thath Jesus is the Son of God."

God 'sees' us as the completed work that He planned.  And He is continually
teaching the fallen image 'down here' to learn to be 'what we really are'.
- if only we could realise it !! ;-) 

Another example like this is in Ephesians 2:6, which is also in the past 
tense :

 "And God raised us up with Christ, and seated us with Him in the heavenly 
  realms in Christ Jesus...."

Here I sit, on my throne in front of the terminal.... - but we *do*, as it 
refers to the authority he has vested in the believer.  Whether we see it 
or not doesn't alter the eternal spiritual fact of our status.

Hallelujah!!!!

							Andrew
584.2We walk by faith, not by sight (2 Cor 5:7)ODIXIE::HUNTTue Sep 27 1994 14:0235
    Have you heard the new Steven Curtis Chapman song, "King of the
    Jungle".  I don't know all the words yet, but there is a line in it that
    goes:
    	"What I see -- is telling me the world's gone crazy
    	 But, what is REAL says -- God's still on His throne"
    
    The Word says that "we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved
    us." (Romans 8:37 NASB)
    
    That is REAL.  That IS reality.
    
    I don't always FEEL like I am a conquerer.  There are times when I FEEL
    like a failure.  But, the bible says that we are to walk by faith and not 
    by sight.  My feelings are not a good indicator of reality.  My feelings
    will lie.  For instance a child may feel guilty when his parents break
    up, FEELING that he is responsible.  Is he guilty?  No!  He's
    experiencing FALSE guilt.  False guilt FEELS just like VALID guilt.  We
    shouldn't confess false guilt.  We should agree with God's word that we
    are not guilty and deny that they guilt is valid.  You don't deny that
    you FEEL guilty, but you deny that you ARE guilty.  Similarly I can
    claim from God's word that I AM victorious (Christ has made me more
    than a conquerer).  I may not FEEL victorious, but it doesn't change
    the fact that I AM victorious.  As we set our minds on things above
    Christ will begin to change our feelings to more closely reflect His
    reality (but our feelings will NEVER be good barometers to judge truth
    by).
    
    That's why I have continually plugged the "Lifetime Guarantee" book. 
    The truths contained in this book enabled me to see (from the Word), to
    a greater degree, what my IDENTITY in Christ is.  Once we understand
    WHO we are, we can begin to experience the REALITY of who we are.
    
    Love in Him,
    
    Bing
584.3PAULKM::WEISSTrade freedom for His security-GAIN bothTue Sep 27 1994 14:5242
Could you give the specifics on the "Lifetime guarantee" book again, Bing?

You're absolutely right, Bing, that we ARE victorious whether or not we FEEL
victorious.  But one of the main reasons we don't FEEL victorious is because
we often tend, even those who are trying to follow Christ as closely as
possible, to view Christ's commandments as rules to be followed instead of
promises to be grasped.  When Christ gives us a command, it's not because He
wants to burden us with something, or to make us comply with something
arbitrary.  No matter how hard or even impossible it looks to us, Christ
commands it because as our creator, He knows that obeying it *IS THE BEST
POSSIBLE THING* for us.  And He promises that as we obey Him and cleave to
Him, that the spark of His life within us that we received at salvation will
be fanned into a roaring furnace.

We must learn to shift our view even of such difficult commands as loving
when we are not loved in return or are even persecuted.  So long as we view
His commands as something we just have to do because we're told, we will
struggle with being obedient, and though our obedience will honor Christ and
we will be blessed by it, we will be sipping blessing through a straw.  We
will still BE victorious (even when we fail at obedience), because Christ's
righteousness makes us so, but we're not likely to FEEL very victorious.

We have to learn to view His commands for what they are: promises from the
very creator of us and of all that is, promises that THIS is the way He
designed us in the first place, and promises that He will bless us and abide
with us as we grasp those promises and live by them.  As we adopt that view,
as we become EXCITED about obedience, as we "hunger and thirst for
righteousness," then the floodgates of blessing will be burst wide, and the
FEELING of being a conquerer is likely to accompany the reality.

As I read back over that, please note that when I speak of blessings, I'm
speaking of blessings of the heart.  I'm not necessarily talking about
material blessings or even circumstantial blessings.  We may be incredibly
blessed, our hearts may be filled to overflowing with His Love and the Joy of
His presence, yet remain in exactly the same external situations.

"He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me; and he who
loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him, and will disclose
Myself to him.  If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will
love him, and We will come to him, and make Our abode with him."  

							John 14:21,23 NAS
584.4SpecsODIXIE::HUNTTue Sep 27 1994 15:1236
    Amen Paul!
    
    It's interesting that after posting my reply, the next verse that popped
    up on my computer was, "Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and
    certain of what we do not see."
                                     - Hebrews 11:1
    
    Here's the specifics on the book:
    
    "Lifetime Guarantee" by Dr. Bill Gilham
    Harvest House Publishers, 1993 (originally published by Wolgemuth &
                                    Hyatt, Publishers, Inc., 1987)
    ISBN #1-56507-075-5
    
    
    The below is cross posted from 14.21847:
   
     For anyone who's interested, here's the "teaser" on the back of the
    book:
    "You've tried fixing your marriage, your kids, you job.  Suddenly the
    light dawns.  It's not you PROBLEMS that need to be fixed--it's your
    LIFE!  THe good new is that God doesn't ask you to live YOUR life for
    Christ, but to let Him live HIS life through you.
    
    With humor, candor, and 'plain vanilla talk,' author Bill Gilham takes
    a new and enlightening look at the concept of your identitiy IN CHRIST. 
    A Christian who walks in this manner is backed by God's lifetime
    guarantee."
    
    "I have seen families put back together and lives changed in the most
    beautiful way through God's principles in LIFETIME GUARANTEE."
    				Dr. Charles Stanley
    
   Love in Him,
    
    Bing