| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 529.2 | Enough theory, what really happens is... | LEDS::LOPEZ | A River.. proceeding! | Tue Jul 26 1994 13:50 | 11 |
|
re.0
How do you classify kissing statues of bible characters to the extent
that the hands, toes, and nose are worn to nearly nothing?
That's stretching the appreciation of art, wouldn't you say?
ace
|
| 529.4 | | PCCAD::RICHARDJ | Living With A Honky Tonk Attitude | Tue Jul 26 1994 18:11 | 11 |
| re:2
So what's wrong with kissing a statue of the Mother of Jesus ?
Would you kiss a statue or photo of your own mother ?
What's wrong with kissing a statue of the mother of my Lord and Savior.
Would he not want me to honor and love her ?
Jim
|
| 529.5 | | LEDS::LOPEZ | A River.. proceeding! | Tue Jul 26 1994 20:32 | 23 |
|
re.4
Jim,
> So what's wrong with kissing a statue of the Mother of Jesus ?
What's the point of it?
> Would you kiss a statue or photo of your own mother ?
No, because they are not my mother.
> What's wrong with kissing a statue of the mother of my Lord and Savior.
Hey Jim, pucker up and be my guest! 8*) 8*)
> Would he not want me to honor and love her ?
I don't think so Jim. Where does it say that in the Bible?
Regards,
ace
|
| 529.6 | | PCCAD::RICHARDJ | Living With A Honky Tonk Attitude | Wed Jul 27 1994 14:10 | 36 |
| re:5
Ace
>> So what's wrong with kissing a statue of the Mother of Jesus ?
> What's the point of it?
I love her. Its an expression of that love.
>> Would you kiss a statue or photo of your own mother ?
> No, because they are not my mother.
You don't have a mother ?
>> What's wrong with kissing a statue of the mother of my Lord and Savior.
> Hey Jim, pucker up and be my guest! 8*) 8*)
Its not through your invitation that I do so, but through the
invitation that comes from God.
>> Would he not want me to honor and love her ?
> I don't think so Jim. Where does it say that in the Bible?
So your saying that Jesus would NOT want you to love and honor
His mother, because its not in the Bible ? What kind of son
would tell someone to not love and honor his mother ?
If we are commanded to love and honor our own mothers and fathers,
why not his ? We are also told to love one another, as He loved us,
so doesn't this include his mother ?
Jim
|
| 529.7 | | DELNI::DISMUKE | | Wed Jul 27 1994 14:58 | 8 |
| Because his mother was a human being like the rest of us and we are not
to consider any other human being to be on a par with God. We are to
honor our parents as children, but we are not to honor Mary as a diety
or having anything to do with diety - other than carrying him for nine
months and nurturing him.
-s
|
| 529.8 | | LEDS::LOPEZ | A River.. proceeding! | Wed Jul 27 1994 15:21 | 24 |
|
re.6
Jim,
The issue is elevating anyone other than the Lord Jesus.
Mary was blessed among women, not above them.
>What kind of son would tell someone to not love and honor his mother ?
You've changed the question. The gist of the question I asked is where
did He or anyone else say in the Bible to kiss statues and images of biblical
characters? The answer of course is nowwhere in the Bible is that activity
condoned, rather all such mentionings are negative in relationship to idol
worship (pick nearly any chapter in 1 or 2 Kings for examples).
Explain it from the Bible, Jim. What God has spoken to us in His Word is what
matters to me.
Regards,
Ace
|
| 529.9 | | PCCAD::RICHARDJ | Living With A Honky Tonk Attitude | Wed Jul 27 1994 16:07 | 17 |
| re:7
> Because his mother was a human being like the rest of us and we are not
> to consider any other human being to be on a par with God.
So who's putting Mary on par with God ?
>We are to
> honor our parents as children, but we are not to honor Mary as a diety
> or having anything to do with diety - other than carrying him for nine
> months and nurturing him.
No one I know honors Mary as a diety ? You must be making false
judgements here.
Jim
|
| 529.10 | | PCCAD::RICHARDJ | Living With A Honky Tonk Attitude | Wed Jul 27 1994 16:22 | 39 |
| re:8
> The issue is elevating anyone other than the Lord Jesus.
That's the issue you make out of it. Do you elevate your mother
and father above yourself, or are they your equal ?
> Mary was blessed among women, not above them.
Because she was called "blessed" and highly favored by God"
by the angel Gabriel in Scripture and was chosen to be the
mother of Jesus Christ, she is above all other women.
>>What kind of son would tell someone to not love and honor his mother ?
> You've changed the question. The gist of the question I asked is where
>did He or anyone else say in the Bible to kiss statues and images of biblical
>characters?
Were does it say to kiss your parents or grand parents ? A kiss is an
expression of love. You make it to be equivalent to worshiping God,
which is not.
>The answer of course is nowwhere in the Bible is that activity
>condoned, rather all such mentionings are negative in relationship to idol
>worship (pick nearly any chapter in 1 or 2 Kings for examples).
Idol worship is condemned in that an idol is a false god. Mary is not
a false god nor a god, but the mother of Jesus Christ. We honor her
for that fact.
>Explain it from the Bible, Jim. What God has spoken to us in His Word is what
>matters to me.
Me too, so tell me where loving and honoring Mary is condemned in the
Bible.
Jim
|
| 529.11 | | AIMHI::JMARTIN | | Wed Jul 27 1994 19:08 | 22 |
| Jim:
Mary was a willing and chosen vessel to be faithful and hold Jesus
in the womb. I am sure you would concur that Mary acknowledges her
sinfulness in Luke Chapter 2 I believe. Also, she is a descendent of
Adam. I doubt we are at differences with that.
There has been much discussion and conjecture throughout the years on
the issue of Mary. I have gone over my grandmothers house and opened a
beautiful Catholic Bible. I used to see pictures of Mary having a
crown placed on her head by Jesus himself. Underneath, there would be
an inscription saying, "Beloved Mary, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven".
Maybe this is an old doctrine no longer in existence. Maybe the
Vatican miscommunicated this point years ago. Whatever the case may
be, people cannot blame others for being cautious when it comes to
kissing statues of Mary. I honor Mary as I honor Esther, Ruth, and
others. It would seem that her willingness to bear the Messiah puts
her in a deified role, at least according to the picture I saw!
In Christ,
-Jack
|
| 529.12 | Sin of presumption... | LEDS::LOPEZ | A River.. proceeding! | Wed Jul 27 1994 19:54 | 23 |
| re.11
Jack,
I'm where you are.
>Underneath, there would be
> an inscription saying, "Beloved Mary, Mother of God, Queen of Heaven".
And that is precisely the issue.
re.10
Jim,
Sometimes we believers sin by not doing something that God has told us
to do. And sometimes we sin because we do something that God has not told us to
do. My belief is that whether you commit a sin of disobedience or a sin of
presumption (doing something that God has not told you to do) it is in the end
the same.
regards,
ace
|
| 529.13 | | PCCAD::RICHARDJ | Living With A Honky Tonk Attitude | Fri Jul 29 1994 09:12 | 13 |
| RE:12
Ace,
can you show us where in Scripture it says that we can sin against
God by doing something he has not told us not to do ?
My understanding of sin is that we sin when we do not obey God's
commandments as given to us in Scripture. From what your saying,
there are things God does not want us to do, but hasn't told us
about them. From that, writing in this conference could be a sin
against God, but we just don't know we are sinning, because God
hasn't told us not to do it.
Jim
|
| 529.14 | Re : The base Note | DNEAST::DALELIO_HENR | | Fri Jul 29 1994 10:25 | 20 |
|
Just for the record, God instructed the Hebrews to make gold cherubim to
sit above the gold mercy seat within the Holy of Holies. The high priest
went into this most holy place with sacrificial blood and performed a high
act of worship in the legal propitiation of the sins of the nation of Israel.
There was the bronze serpent which Jehovah directed Moses to hold up and
have the people to look at, mentioned in the book of John.
In the Solomonic Temple were also figures of angelic beings and other
carved artifacts.
The commandment was "no graven images...to worship them"
It would seem that graven images were ok (Jehovah even requesting them) as
long as the image itself was not worshipped. If we are going to go beyond
only the forbidding of their worship, then even photographs in our home or
purse or wallet are a violation of the law.
Hank
|
| 529.16 | | PCCAD::RICHARDJ | Living With A Honky Tonk Attitude | Mon Aug 01 1994 09:13 | 8 |
| RE:15
Your note shows a real maturity in spirit.
God Bless
Jim
|
| 529.17 | | AIMHI::JMARTIN | | Mon Aug 01 1994 14:37 | 47 |
| Hello Jim:
Believe me when I tell you that my disagreement on this matter is not
for the purpose of, "I win...you lose...haha!!" There are many issues
in this notes conference at Digital that have helped to mold differing
opinions on my part about different topics.
I would like to address a few things. First, there is a distinct
difference between a sin and a transgression.
>>My understanding of sin is that we sin when we do not obey God's
>>commandments as given to us in Scripture. From what your saying,
>>there are things God does not want us to do, but hasn't told us
>>about them.
If you recall, Cain sinned against God, he murdered...yet the Mosaic
law had not yet been written. He did not transgress the law of God but
he did sin. This is just a point of interest and I wrote it because
you mentioned how we sin when we disobey God's commandments.
However, I do believe there are practices the local church makes that
can be dangerous for the spiritually immature. Hank mentioned the
Bronze serpent and how God had commanded the Israelites to make this
serpent to heal the people of the plague. I believe that God wanted
them to use it for this purpose, then throw it away. Eventually, it
became an instrument of baal worship, it was unhealthy to keep around.
I believe that images such as statues, especially ones we bow down to
even with the best of intentions, can prove to be a dangerous thing
just like the bronze serpent.
Having grown up Catholic, there was no question in my mind that Mary
was somebody who was deified. I look at Mary as having been very
fortunate (blessed) for her role in the whole historical account. At
the same time, I put her in equality with Esther, Ruth, Deborah, and
other great women in the Bible who have been used by God to accomplish
His purpose. I still contend that, even with the best of intentions,
Mary can bring one no closer to God. Mary cannot intercede on our
behalf, Mary came from the lineage of Adam, and I personally believe
the visions of Mary in Portugal were genuine visions...but I don't
believe they were of Mary.
I am not Mary bashing, I am saying that statues and the like can put
people like Mary into a position they would never wish for.
In Christ,
-Jack
|
| 529.18 | | PCCAD::RICHARDJ | Living With A Honky Tonk Attitude | Mon Aug 01 1994 15:06 | 8 |
| RE:17
Well like you said Jack, its what you believe. I don't believe what
you believe, and neither does the Catholic Church, so I guess there's
no point in going further. I'll just leave it at that.
Jim
|
| 529.19 | | AIMHI::JMARTIN | | Mon Aug 01 1994 16:02 | 35 |
| Jim:
I am reminded of a true account. Augustine, a Godly man who lived
during the years of The Roman Empire, did his part in spreading
Christianity throughout the world. He had a friend named Alpheus,
Another devout believer. Alpheus had one conviction certainly
worth noting. He was dead set against the games at the Roman
Colisseum. He was constantly preaching outside the colisseum, telling
of the horrors and how degrading they are to humanity...asking why
anybody of any character would even lower themselves to watching
such a spectacle.
He and Augustine parted ways for a period of time. Alpheus remained in
Rome, maintaining his campaign against this Roman savagery. One day,
a regular games attender approached and asked Alpheus if he had ever
gone to watch the games. Upon answering no, the guy said, "Don't you
think it would be a good idea to go in there and see for yourself so
you'll know what your talking about?" Upon reasoning it out, Alpheus
decided that it might be a good idea.
Alpheus sat in the colisseum with his hands over his eyes. Upon a
loud cheer, he quickly removed his hands for a look, then quickly
covered them again. Five minutes later...again a loud cheer and again,
Alpeus removed his hands, but this time, it took a few seconds for him
to put his hands back. Needless to say, he stopped closing his eyes
and within a brief period of time, became one of the biggest proponents
of the games at the colisseum. Some months later, Augustine returned,
confronted Alpeus, a very Godly man and asked, what happened? His
reply was that he was seducted by the good tasting flavor of sin.
Jim, we can agree to disagree, but next time you're in church and you
see a Godly old lady with the best intentions kissing a statue of Mary
or any other saint for that matter, think of Alpheus.
-Jack
|
| 529.20 | | PCCAD::RICHARDJ | Living With A Honky Tonk Attitude | Mon Aug 01 1994 16:21 | 11 |
| RE:19
Jack,
the Augustine you spoke of, would that be St. Augustine ?
No offense, but drawing a parallel between witnessing the evil of Nero's
Circus and the devotion to the Blessed Mother is ridiculous.
Jim
|
| 529.21 | | AIMHI::JMARTIN | | Mon Aug 01 1994 16:25 | 8 |
| Yes Jim, it is St. Augustine.
And no offense taken. It was meant to draw a parellel. Alpheus too
was a very Godly man. Like David, his eyes drew him to the pleasures
of sin. Incidentally, why should somebody be "devoted" to the Blessed
Mother? Just curious.
-Jack
|
| 529.22 | | PCCAD::RICHARDJ | Living With A Honky Tonk Attitude | Mon Aug 01 1994 16:30 | 5 |
| RE:21
St. Augustine had a great devotion to the Blessed Mother.
Jim
|
| 529.23 | | AIMHI::JMARTIN | | Mon Aug 01 1994 16:52 | 3 |
| To me, devotion usually implies a reverence toward somebody. Do you
mean that St. Augustine had a devotion to Mary like I might have a
devotion to Abraham Lincoln?
|
| 529.24 | an expression of devotion | JUPITR::MNELSON | | Tue Aug 02 1994 12:55 | 35 |
| re: .23
Like the devotion Jesus had for Mary, his mother. I wonder how much
he loved her? I wonder if he ever ran to her and kissed her? I
wonder if he ever thanked the Father for her in prayer? I wonder if
he ever found comfort or solace from her?
If you have a mother, father or relative, or even friend that has
truly been important in your life consider that love. That is the
degree of love that is implied by such devotion.
Does the love you have for your <mother, father, wife, husband, child,
sister, brother> diminish love for God or, rather, is it an expression,
acknowledgement, and witness of our God, who is love?
Jesus said, "Love one another as I have loved you." That is a love
that is sacrificing, forgiving, and unconditional. It does not have
boundaries of time or space. It creates a loving family. It is a love
that has God as the center and and shares with him the love of others.
Mary is part of the family of God that we share openly in full view of
God in the same way you love your children in the sight of God. Her
soul reflects the Lord and we cannot help but love and be with her in
love of God.
Think of how you are when you are around someone who really reflects
Jesus to you. Are not you filled with love and gratitude for that
person, knowing he or she to be gifts and creations of God? Does not
your soul thank God for that person?
This is the devotion we have for Mary and the basis.
Peace of Jesus,
Mary
|
| 529.25 | | AIMHI::JMARTIN | | Tue Aug 02 1994 13:58 | 26 |
| Mary:
That was well put and I appreciate it. Before asking this next
question, I want to affirm to you Jim, that any questions I ask are
just to help me better understand why you believe the way you do.
I respect your opinions and have always enjoyed your replies!
Mary, the concern I have is this. You mentioned that the devotion you
have for a mother, brother or sister will not hinder your love for
God...and I agree. What I'm wondering is if it is appropriate to have
this kind of devotion towards Mary as opposed to Esther for example.
Just by approaching the Kings throne, Esther put her life out on a limb
because of her love for her countrymen. Esther's faith preserved the
Jewish race in Babylon. Without it, there would be no Messiah!!
The only thing the Word of God tells us is that Mary will be blessed among
women. All the nations will call her blessed. Absolutely...she was
blessed. I believe she was blessed (excuse the crude analogy) in like
fashion to somebody winning megabucks. Of all those who lived, she was
the chosen woman to bear the Messiah. She was the fulfillment of all the
prophetic requirements to be mom to Jesus, Line of David, Virgin, born in
Bethlehem, etc. The Bible doesn't really hold her in higher esteem as
somebody we should have devotion to. Help me understand this.
God Bless,
-Jack
|
| 529.26 | look spiritually | JUPITR::MNELSON | | Thu Aug 04 1994 12:11 | 99 |
|
re: .25
> Mary, the concern I have is this. You mentioned that the devotion you
> have for a mother, brother or sister will not hinder your love for
> God...and I agree. What I'm wondering is if it is appropriate to have
> this kind of devotion towards Mary as opposed to Esther for example.
> Just by approaching the Kings throne, Esther put her life out on a limb
> because of her love for her countrymen. Esther's faith preserved the
> Jewish race in Babylon. Without it, there would be no Messiah!!
Jack, it is interesting and appropriate that you bring up Esther in your
return question. Many Catholic theologians consider Esther to be a
'type' or 'foreshadow' of Mary.
Esther certainly acted heroically in service to God and his people and
saving the Jewish race is certainly no small thing. God chose Esther to
carry out this important task and Esther certainly is blessed.
Esther's actions and obedience to God saved the Jews in a physical way.
Mary participated in a far more spiritual way in her obedience and love
for God. Mary's "yes" to God, accepting to bear Jesus, the Son of God and
our Redeemer, was a spiritual act of full obedience to God; it was a
counteract to Eve's disobedience.
Eve accepted Satan's temptation to disobey God and spiritually that was
the first step towards the fall; she presented it to Adam who in his
authority actually brought about the Fall. Eve cooperated in the act of
rebellion from God.
Mary's "yes" to God was a mega-yes with great spiritual depth; without
her deep full obedience to God, Jesus, our Savior, would not have come
into the world. God provided the grace for her to be capable of saying
this "yes", but she still have full free will throughout her entire
life to be contrary to God.
Consider the spiritual nature of her "yes" and you will begin to see
that within it is contained our entire salvation theology. Consider
the "yes" that we say to God to accept Him into our lives and the
fruit of that "yes" we make.
Our "yes", in faith and heartfelt, is what brings Jesus into our lives
and through Him we have salvation. Nevertheless, the degree to which we
manifest Christ in our lives depends on the fullness of our "yes"; the
Holy Spirit works within us through sanctification so that we may make
more perfect responses of "yes" to God's Will, which is truly to be in
the perfect image of Jesus. We grow in sanctity which is to say we
grow in Christ and we die to our rebelliousness towards God's Will.
Both in Mary and in each person, the grace needed to say 'yes' to God is
an unmerited gift to us based on Christ's merit. However, God seeks our
free consent to His Will from us; God will not supercede our free will
when it comes to manifesting himself in our lives.
The Blessed Virgin gave a 'yes' to God [I am your handmaiden, do unto me
YOUR will.] is a direct contrast to Eve's rebellious attitude against
God as Creator and Lord. Eve's action brought about the advent of the Fall of
Mankind, culminated by Adam's choice; the Blessed Virgin's choice was the
Advent for the Redemption of Mankind, fulfilled through Jesus, the New Adam.
As for the Bible's portrayal of the Blessed Virgin, she is indeed 'hidden'
as far as the words devoted to her reveal. However once one considers all
that Jesus called blessed, particularly from the spiritual aspects, then
we can see that the Blessed Virgin was truly exemplary.
She is foremost the woman of faith and obedience towards God. When she asked
the angel with concern "How can this be, I do not know man." it was not out
of ignorance of biology; rather, many many theologians see this as the
indication that Mary had chosen to be ever-virgin. She knew scripture said
the Messiah would be born of a virgin; this was also her test to the angel.
Scott Hahn researched the word used at the Annunciation for "overshadowed"
["You will be overshadowed by the Holy Spirit...."]. He discovered that in
the Old Testament God only overshadowed objects - primarily, to my recollection,
the Ark of the Covenant. Mary, a creature of God, was the only one to be
overshadowed by God. [There are many parallels also between Mary and the
Ark of the Covenant and other correspondences between OT and NT passages
that add to the spiritual understandings of Mary's special role.]
To understand Mary one must first of all look at here actions from a
spiritual vantage point rather than biologically. Jesus himself gave is a
clue when he told his followers that his mother, sisters, and brothers were
not through biological connections, but his true mother, etc. were those
who had faith in God and do his will [from memory]. Many have tried to use
this passage to discount Mary, but when one considers that she truly DID
have faith in God and do his will, then you see that she is fully Jesus'
mother in a spiritual way also and therefore deserves all appropriate
honor.
I know this is a very quick and not very well written response, but I hope
at least that you can see that Catholics do not contemplate her in the
sense of either her biology or even so much of her role in Jewish salvation
history, but rather from the perspective of her spiritual relationship to
God in the full Trinity.
Peace of Jesus,
Mary
|
| 529.27 | her purity | JUPITR::MNELSON | | Thu Aug 04 1994 12:31 | 43 |
| re: .26
> Mary's "yes" to God was a mega-yes with great spiritual depth; without
> her deep full obedience to God, Jesus, our Savior, would not have come
> into the world. God provided the grace for her to be capable of saying
> this "yes", but she still have full free will throughout her entire
> life to be contrary to God.
Well, I messed this up a bit...... in the last line I was trying to say
that Mary had free will during her entire life to act either contrary
to God's Will or in obedience to His Will. Mary made choices [including
the choice to remain a virgin so as to be available to God if he chose],
all of which was to be obedient and open to God, rather than Satan's
deceptions. [Again, a contrast to Eve's choices].
Every human has been given the grace not to sin but we make the free
will choices to accept that grace or not. Eve did not choose God's
grace, Mary did.
When the Archangel Gabriel greets Mary he calls her "Full of Grace"
which indicates her free will choice to be obedient and available to
God.
A further sign of Mary in scripture is in GEN 3:15; the woman, by God's
decree, is placed in opposition with the serpent [Satan] there is full
emnity between the woman and the serpent. Satan's ways are not Mary's
nor the Church's.
When we contemplate the meaning of sin we see that it is a rebellion or
rejection of God or at least His Will for us. It is also an acceptance
of Satan's 'word' above God's Word. The Blessed Virgin focused entirely
on God and His Word and did not accept Satan's deception. How could
Mary fully accept Christ while turned away from God by sin?
God and sin are not compatible. When we are in sin we cannot manifest
Jesus in our lives in the fullness of His presence and glory. Mary
is a model of spiritual purity, through God's grace and her consistant
alignment of her will with God's Will.
Peace,
Mary
|
| 529.28 | | COVERT::COVERT | John R. Covert | Thu Dec 08 1994 22:44 | 125 |
| JOHN OF DAMASCUS (4 DEC 750?) by Stephen T Benner
John is generally accounted "the last of the Fathers". He was the
son of a Christian official at the court of the moslem khalif Abdul
Malek, and succeeded to his father's office.
In his time there was a dispute among Christians between the
Iconoclasts (image-breakers) and the Iconodules (image-venerators or
image-respectors). The Emperor, Leo III, was a vigorous upholder of
the Iconoclast position. John wrote in favor of the Iconodules with
great effectiveness. Ironically, he was able to do this chiefly
because he had the protection of the moslem khalif (ironic because
the moslems have a strong prohibition against the religious use of
pictures or images).
John is also known as a hymn-writer. Two of his hymns are sung
in English at Easter ("Come ye faithful, raise the strain" and "The
Day of Resurrection! Earth, tell it out abroad!"). Many more are
sung in the Eastern Church.
His major writing is THE FOUNT OF KNOWLEDGE, of which the third
part, THE ORTHODOX FAITH, is a summary of Christian doctrine as
expounded by the Greek Fathers.
The dispute about icons was not a dispute between East and West as
such. Both the Greek and the Latin churches accepted the final
decision.
The Iconoclasts maintained that the use of religious images was
a violation of the Second Commandment ("Thou shalt not make a graven
image... thou shalt not bow down to them").
The Iconodules replied that the coming of Christ had radically
changed the situation, and that the commandment must now be
understood in a new way, just as the commandment to "Remember the
Sabbath Day" must be understood in a new way since the Resurrection
of Jesus on the first day of the week.
Before the Incarnation, it had indeed been improper to portray
the invisible God in visible form; but God, by taking fleshly form
in the person of Jesus Christ, had blessed the whole realm of matter
and made it a fit instrument for manifesting the Divine Splendor. He
had reclaimed everything in heaven and earth for His service, and
had made water and oil, bread and wine, means of conveying His grace
to men. He had made painting and sculpture and music and the spoken
word, and indeed all our daily tasks and pleasures, the common round
of everyday life, a means whereby man might glorify God and be made
aware of Him.
Obviously, the use of images and pictures in a religious context is
open to abuse, and in the sixteenth century abuses had become so
prevalent that some (not all) of the early Protestants reacted by
denouncing the use of images altogether. Many years ago, I heard a
sermon in my home parish (All Saints' Church, East Lansing,
Michigan) on the Commandment, "Thou shalt not make a graven image,
nor the likeness of anything in the heavens above, nor in the earth
beneath, nor in the waters under the earth -- thou shalt not bow
down to them, nor worship them." (Exodus 20:4-5 and Deuteronomy
5:8-9) The preacher (Gordon Jones) pointed out that, even if we
refrain completely from the use of statues and paintings in
representing God, we will certainly use mental or verbal images,
will think of God in terms of concepts that the human mind can
grasp, since the alternative is not to think of Him at all. (Here I
digress to note that, if we reject the images offered in Holy
Scripture of God as Father, Shepherd, King, Judge, on the grounds
that they are not literally accurate, we will end up substituting
other images -- an endless, silent sea, a dome of white radiance, an
infinitely attenuated ether permeating all space, an electromagnetic
force field, or whatever, which is no more literally true than the
image it replaces, and which leaves out the truths that the
Scriptural images convey. (One of the best books I know on this
subject is Edwyn Bevan's SYMBOLISM AND BELIEF, Beacon Press,
originally a Gifford Lectures series.)
C S Lewis repeats what a woman of his acquaintance told him: that
as a child she was taught to think of God as an infinite "perfect
substance," with the result that for years she envisioned Him as a
kind of enormous tapioca pudding. To make matters worse, she disliked
tapioca. Back to the sermon.
The sin of idolatry consists of giving to the image the devotion that
properly belongs to God. No educated man today is in danger of confusing
God with a painting or statue, but we may give to a particular concept
of God the unconditional allegiance that properly belongs to God Himself.
This does not, of course, mean that one concept of God is as good as
another, or that it may not be our duty to reject something said about
God as simply false. Images, concepts, of God matter, because it matters
how we think about God. The danger is one of intellectual pride, of
forgetting that the Good News is, not that we know God, but that He
knows us (1 Corinthians 8:3), not that we love Him, but that He loves
us (1 John 4:10).
(Incidentally, it was customary in my parish in those days for
the preacher to preach a short "Children's Sermon," after which the
children were dismissed for Sunday School, and the regular sermon
and the rest of the service followed. What I have described above
was the Children's Sermon. I remained for the regular sermon, but
found it a bit over my head -- a salutary correction to my
intellectual snobbery.)
In the East Orthodox tradition, three-dimensional representations
are seldom used. The standard icon is a painting, highly stylized,
and thought of as a window through which the worshipper is looking
into Heaven. (Hence, the background of the picture is almost always
gold leaf.) In an Eastern church, an iconostasis (icon screen)
flanks the altar on each side, with images of angels and saints
(including Old Testament persons) as a sign that the whole church in
Heaven and earth is one body in Christ, and unites in one voice of
praise and thanksgiving in the Holy Liturgy. At one point in the
service, the minister takes a censer and goes to each icon in turn,
bows and swings the censer at the icon. He then does the same thing
to the congregation -- ideally, if time permits, to each worshipper
separately, as a sign that every Christian is an icon, made in the
image and likeness of God, an organ in the body of Christ, a window
through whom the splendor of Heaven shines forth.
PRAYER
Confirm our minds, O Lord, in the mysteries of the true faith,
set forth with power by thy servant John of Damscus; that we,
with him, confessing Jesus to be true God and true Man, and
singing the praises of the risen Lord, may, by the power of the
resurrection, attain to eternal joy; through Jesus Christ our
Lord, who liveth and reigneth with thee and the Holy Spirit,
one God, for evermore. Amen.
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