Conference yukon::christian_v7

> bib -s"saint"

1Samuel 2:9  He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be
silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.

2Chronicles 6:41  Now therefore arise, O Lord God, into thy resting place,
thou, and the ark of thy strength; let thy priests, O Lord God, be clothed
with salvation, and let thy saints rejoice in goodness.

Job 5:1  Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of
the saints wilt thou turn?

Job 15:15  Behold, he putteth no trust in his saints; yea, the heavens are not
clean in his sight.

Psalms 16:3  But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent,
in whom is all my delight.

Psalms 30:4  Sing unto the LORD, O ye saints of his, and give thanks at the
remembrance of his holiness.

Psalms 31:23  O love the LORD, all ye his saints: for the LORD preserveth the
faithful, and plentifully rewardeth the proud doer.

Psalms 34:9  O fear the LORD, ye his saints: for there is no want to them
that fear him.

Psalms 37:28  For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they
are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

Psalms 50:5  Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a
covenant with me by sacrifice.

Psalms 52:9  I will praise thee for ever, because thou hast done it: and I
will wait on thy name; for it is good before thy saints.

Psalms 79:2  The dead bodies of thy servants have they given to be meat unto
the fowls of the heaven, the flesh of thy saints unto the beasts of the earth.

Psalms 85:8  I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak
peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to
folly.

Psalms 89:5  And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O LORD: thy
faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.

Psalms 89:7  God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and
to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.

Psalms 97:10  Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his
saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.

Psalms 106:16  They envied Moses also in the camp, and Aaron the saint of the
LORD.

Psalms 116:15  Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

Psalms 132:9  Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy
saints shout for joy.

Psalms 132:16  I will also clothe her priests with salvation: and her saints
shall shout aloud for joy.

Psalms 145:10  All thy works shall praise thee, O LORD; and thy saints shall
bless thee.

Psalms 148:14  He also exalteth the horn of his people, the praise of all his
saints; even of the children of Israel, a people near unto him. Praise ye the
LORD.

Psalms 149:1  Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, and his
praise in the congregation of saints.

Psalms 149:5  Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon
their beds.

Psalms 149:9  To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all
his saints. Praise ye the LORD.

Proverbs 2:8  He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of
his saints.
Daniel 7:18  But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and
possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Daniel 7:21  I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and
prevailed against them;
 22  Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of
the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

Daniel 7:25  And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall
wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and
they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of
time.

Daniel 7:27  And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom
under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most
High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve
and obey him.

Daniel 8:13  Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto
that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the
daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the
sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

Hosea 11:12  Ephraim compasseth me about with lies, and the house of Israel
with deceit: but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints.

Zechariah 14:5  And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the
valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye
fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the
LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Matthew 27:52  And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which
slept arose,

Acts 9:13  Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how
much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

Acts 9:32  And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all quarters, he
came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda.

Acts 9:41  And he gave her his hand, and lifted her up, and when he had
called the saints and widows, presented her alive.

Acts 26:10  Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I
shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when
they were put to death, I gave my voice against them.

Romans 1:7  To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:
Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 8:27  And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the
Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of
God.

Romans 12:13  Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

Romans 15:25  But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
 26  For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain
contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

Romans 15:31  That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea;
and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints;

Romans 16:2  That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye
assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a
succourer of many, and of myself also.

Romans 16:15  Salute Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and
Olympas, and all the saints which are with them.

1Corinthians 1:2  Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that
are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every
place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1Corinthians 6:1  Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to
law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
  2  Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world
shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

1Corinthians 14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as
in all churches of the saints.

1Corinthians 16:1  Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have
given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

1Corinthians 16:15  I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas,
that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves
to the ministry of the saints,)

2Corinthians 1:1  Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and
Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the
saints which are in all Achaia:

2Corinthians 8:4  Praying us with much intreaty that we would receive the
gift, and take upon us the fellowship of the ministering to the saints.

2Corinthians 9:1  For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is
superfluous for me to write to you:

2Corinthians 9:12  For the administration of this service not only supplieth
the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;

2Corinthians 13:13  All the saints salute you.

Ephesians 1:1  Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the
saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Ephesians 1:15  Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord
Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Ephesians 1:18  The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may
know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his
inheritance in the saints,

Ephesians 2:19  Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but
fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Ephesians 3:8  Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this
grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches
of Christ;

Ephesians 3:18  May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the
breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

Ephesians 4:12  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the
ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Ephesians 5:3  But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it
not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Ephesians 6:18  Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the
Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all
saints;

Philippians 1:1  Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all
the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and
deacons:

Philippians 4:21  Salute every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren which are
with me greet you.
 22  All the saints salute you, chiefly they that are of Caesar's household.

Colossians 1:2  To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at
Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus
Christ.

Colossians 1:4  Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the
love which ye have to all the saints,

Colossians 1:12  Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be
partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Colossians 1:26  Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from
generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

1Thessalonians 3:13  To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in
holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
with all his saints.

2Thessalonians 1:10  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to
be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was
believed) in that day.

1Timothy 5:10  Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up
children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the saints' feet,
if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have diligently followed every good
work.

Philemon 1:5  Hearing of thy love and faith, which thou hast toward the Lord
Jesus, and toward all saints;

Philemon 1:7  For we have great joy and consolation in thy love, because the
bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother.

Hebrews 6:10  For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of
love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the
saints, and do minister.

Hebrews 13:24  Salute all them that have the rule over you, and all the
saints. They of Italy salute you.

Jude 1:3  Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common
salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye
should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the
saints.

Jude 1:14  And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these,
saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

Revelation 5:8  And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and
twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and
golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Revelation 8:3  And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a
golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer
it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the
throne.
  4  And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints,
ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

Revelation 11:18  And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the
time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give
reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear
thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Revelation 13:7  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and
to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and
nations.

Revelation 13:10  He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he
that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the
patience and the faith of the saints.

Revelation 14:12  Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep
the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Revelation 15:3  And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the
song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God
Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Revelation 16:6  For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and
thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

Revelation 17:6  And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints,
and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered
with great admiration.

Revelation 18:24  And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints,
and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Revelation 19:8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine
linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Revelation 20:9  And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed
the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from
God out of heaven, and devoured them.


Number of occurances of search: saint  -  96.

>Psalms 79:2  The dead bodies of thy servants have they given to be meat unto
>the fowls of the heaven, the flesh of thy saints unto the beasts of the earth.

This one seems to indicate that a saint is a person of this earth.  Numerous 
other verses, too.

>Psalms 106:16  They envied Moses also in the camp, and Aaron the saint of the
>LORD.

Saint Aaron?  Anyone have Aaron as a patron Saint?

>Psalms 116:15  Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

An interesting verse, which helps to put death in perspective: His.

>Romans 12:13  Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
>Romans 15:25  But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.
> 26  For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain
>contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.
>1Corinthians 16:1  Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have
>given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

What do saints need? (Unless they are mortal.)

In almost every case, saints is referred to as a collection of persons (plural)
and in some cases (such as Aaron) a specific person.  In fact, I think I saw
only Aaron being specifically referred to as a saint.  

Mark

Saint means "holy one".

>Saint means "holy one".

I can buy this.  Is Mother Theresa a saint?  If I remember, there is also an
office of sainthood inthe Catholic church which is something "beyond" the
common meaning.  Now, in every church, we revere some names of people
living and dead, (Dwight L. Moody, Martin Luther, Billy Graham, John and
Charles Wesley, John Calvin, for some examples).  

What I understand and cannot agree with (my understanding) about the Saints
in the Catholic church is the amount of attention attributed to some of them.
Is this different than holding celebrations for George Washington's 
birthday, having a testimonial dinner in honor of Mother Theresa or Billy
Graham, or hanging a plaque in your church dedicating a wing to some
pillar of the local church?  If it is different, how so, and why?

Mark

    Is it our faithfulness to God, or God's faithfulness to us, which makes
    us Saints?  Christ gave me His righteousness, He has made me Holy &
    Blameless.  The only thing that I have done is to receive what He has
    done for me, in faith (if that's what you meant by "faithfulness" then
    I agree.  When I hear faithfulness, I think of My action for God.
    
    Bing  

Please explain your understanding and interpretion of the statement in the Creed

		"I believe in the Communion of Saints."

What is its relationship to the Holy Mystery of the Church?

>Please explain your understanding and interpretion of the statement in the Creed
>
>		"I believe in the Communion of Saints."

Fair enough.  I understand the communion of the saints to mean the fellowship
(local gathering) of "holy ones" (as you put it).  A very good example would
be when the disciples were gathered in the upper room.  I believe in churches
today, the communion of the saints is mingled with those who might become
saints by virtue of God's salvation and sanctification.

Now, if you want to extend this to those living on the other side of this
mortal coil, I can still use this definition in my understanding, such that
it is a local gathering (though not mingled with the profane).

Now, how about your understanding?  And also, if different, the understanding
of the Catholic church?  (Anglicans accepted, too, John.)

Mark

>What is its relationship to the Holy Mystery of the Church?

This is another question.  The mystery of the church, as I understand it, is
found in Ephesians 5:

 31  For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be
joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
 32  This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Paul relates marriage, and goes into detail as to how husband and wife 
ought to act and react to each other, to the church.  

To answer this question, John, the communion of the Saints' relationship
IN the holy mystery of the church (universal; the body of Christ) is
to be submissive to Christ the Head:  Ephesians 5:23  "For the husband is 
the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is 
the saviour of the body."

Mark

The Communion of Saints.  All who have been baptised are united with Christ,
and therefore with each other.  There can be no real Separation, either of
death, time, or geography, unless we are separated from Christ by sin; for
where one is, all are.

In the Holy Communion, all the members of Christ are present with Christ in
the sacramental Body.  "Communion" means "common unity."  "Saints" here
refers not just to the specially commemorated saints, but to all baptised
people, who are the Holy People of God.  The Communion of Saints is
expressed by images of the saints, and by naming parishes and Church
societies after the names of saints.

				-- The Episcopal Church, Fr. Roy Pettway

>refers not just to the specially commemorated saints, but to all baptised

What constitutes a specially commemorated saint and is this type of 
saint better, worse, or the same as you or I who are "baptised 
and united with Christ?"

>What constitutes a specially commemorated saint and is this type of 
>saint better, worse, or the same as you or I who are "baptised 
>and united with Christ?"

This type of saint is not better or worse.  This is just a person whose life
is a special witness to faith in God, from whom we can learn useful things
about how to live the Christian Life, and whose example should help us to
grow in love of the Lord.

A person achieves this status by being recognized as such by the Church.
The formal means of accomplishing this have varied throughout history, from
simple local acclamation to formal centralized examination of history, to
multi-year voting processes in national conventions.

/john

Leading questions:

Are there abuses of persons in regards to saints?

Should these abuses be charged against an organization?
-----------------------
To give my own answers first:

>Are there abuses of persons in regards to saints?

  Yes.  I think the passage about some following Paul and some Apollos and
  some Peter is one indicator of placing too much emphasis on the person
  so as to obscure Christ.  People do this today in just about every 
  Christian church.

>Should these abuses be charged against an organization?

  I suppose that would depend on the pervasivenes of abuse and approval
  (tacit or explicit) of the church elders.

Your answers?

I sing a song of the saints of God,
Patient and brave and true,
Who toiled and fought and lived and died
For the Lord they loved and knew.
 And one was a doctor, and one was a queen,
 And one was a shepherdess on the green:
 They were all of them saints of God--And I mean,
 God helping, to be one too.

They loved their Lord so dear, so dear,
And his love made them strong;
And they followed the right, for Jesus' sake,
The whole of their good lives long.
 And one was a soldier and one was a priest,
 And one was slain by a fierce wild beast:
 And there's not any reason--no, not the least--
 Why I shouldn't be one too.

They lived not only in ages past,
There are hundreds of thousands still,
The world is bright with the joyous saints
Who love to do Jesus' will.
 You can meet them in school, or in lanes, or at sea,
 In church, or in trains, or in shops, or at tea,
 For the saints of God are just folk like me,
 And I mean to be one too.

--L. Scott, 1929

re: .4
    
    >What I understand and cannot agree with (my understanding) about the
    >Saints in the Catholic church is the amount of attention attributed
    >to some of them.  Is this different than holding celebrations for
    >George Washington's birthday, having a testimonial dinner in
    >honor of Mother Theresa or Billy Graham, or hanging a plaque
    >in your church dedicating a wing to some pillar of the local church? 
    >If it is different, how so, and why?
    
    Here's one take on it:                  
    
    To understand the connection the Catholic church has made to the
    saints we need to look at the culture in which the practice
    began.  That is, the nature of a "patronage society", where
    having connections is essential for survival.  Patronage,
    as I understand, is still largely in effect in Latin American
    countries.  For centuries, Christian missionaries have tried
    to elevate the status of Jesus within the local Latin American 
    church, only to continually find the devine hierarchy as this:
     
    1) The local *patron* saint
    2) The holy mother (e.g. Our Lady of Guataloupe)
    3) Jesus
     
    I've seen this connection to a personal (patron) saint prevalent
    among many of my older Catholic friends.  There seems to be
    something about it that settles the soul.  Woman may find
    comfort with a female saint or Mary; an immigrant may identify
    with the patron saint of his or her mother country.
    
    Jesus, I believe, is the great patron for all Christians, bridging
    the gap between the finite and the eternal.  Without His connection,
    how would we (fallible humans) know God as accessible, personal,
    and loving?
    
    -Don