Conference yukon::christian_v7

March 29, 1994

EVANGELICALS AND CATHOLICS TOGETHER:

THE CHRISTIAN MISSION IN THE THIRD MILLENNIUM

Introduction.
I. We Affirm Together.
II. We Hope Together
III. We Search Together.
IV. We Contend Together.
V. We Witness Together.
Conclusion.

INTRODUCTION.

We are Evangelical Protestants and Roman Catholics who have been led
through prayer, study, and discussion to common convictions about
Christian faith and mission. This statement cannot speak officially for
our communities. It does intend to speak responsibly from our communities
and to our communities. In this statement we address what we have
discovered both about our unity and about our differences. We are aware
that our experience reflects the distinctive circumst ances and
opportunities of Evangelicals and Catholics living together in North
America. At the same time, we believe that what we have discovered and
resolved is pertinent to the relationship between Evangelicals and
Catholics in other parts of the world. We therefore commend this
statement to their prayerful consideration.

As the Second Millennium draws to a close, the Christian mission in world
history faces a moment of daunting opportunity and responsibility. If in
the merciful and mysterious ways of God the Second Coming is delayed, we
enter upon a Third Millennium that could be, in the words of John Paul
II, "a springtime of world missions." (Redemptoris Missio)

As Christ is one, so the Christian mission is one. That one mission can
be and should be advanced in diverse ways. Legitimate diversity, however,
should not be confused with existing divisions between Christians that
obscure the one Christ and hinder the one mission. There is a necessary
connection between the visible unity of Christians and the mission of the
one Christ. We together pray for the fulfillment of the prayer of Our
Lord: "May they all be one; as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, so
also may they be in us, that the one, may believe that you sent me."
(John 17) We together, Evangelicals and Catholics, confess our sins
against the unity that Christ intends for all his disciples.

The one Christ and one mission includes many other Christians, notably
the Eastern Orthodox and those Protestants not commonly identified as
Evangelical. All Christians are encompassed in the prayer, "May they all
be one." Our present statement attends to the specific problems and
opportunities in the relationship between Roman Catholics and Evangelical
Protestants.

As we near the Third Millennium, there are approximately 1.7 billion
Christians in the world. About a billion of these are Catholics and more
than 300 million are Evangelical Protestants. The century now drawing to
a close has been the greatest century of missionary expansion in
Christian history. We pray and we believe that this expansion has
prepared the way for yet greater missionary endeavor in the first century
of the Third Millennium.

The two communities in world Christianity that are most evangelistically
assertive and most rapidly growing are Evangelicals and Catholics. In
many parts of the world, the relationship between these communities is
marked more by conflict than by cooperation, more by animosity than by
love, more by suspicion than by trust, more by propaganda and ignorance
than by respect for the truth. This is alarmingly the case in Latin
America, increasingly the case in Eastern Europe, and too often the case
in our own country.
 	
Without ignoring conflicts between and within other Christian
communities, we address ourselves to the relationship between
Evangelicals and Catholics who constitute the growing edge of missionary
expansion at present and, most likely, in the century ahead. In doing so,
we hope that what we have discovered and resolved may be of help in other
situations of conflict, such as that among Orthodox, Evangelicals, and
Catholics in Eastern Europe. While we are gratefully aware of ongoing
efforts to address tensions among these communities, the shameful reality
is that, in many places around the world, the scandal of conflict between
Christians obscures the scandal of the cross, thus crippling the one
mission of the one Christ.
 	
As in times past, so also today and in the future, the Christian mission,
which is directed to the entire human community, must be advanced against
formidable opposition. In some cultures, that mission encounters
resurgent spiritualities and religions that are explicitly hostile to the
claims of the Christ. Islam, which in many instances denies the freedom
to witness to the Gospel, must be of increasing concern to those who care
about religious freedom and the Christian mission. Mutually respectful
conversation between Muslims and Christians should be encouraged in the
hope that more of the world will, in the oft repeated words of John Paul
II, "open the door to Christ." At the same time, in our so-called
developed societies, a widespread secularization increasingly descends
into a moral, intellectual, and spiritual nihilism that denies not only
the One who is the Truth but the very idea of truth itself.

We enter the twenty-first century without illusions. With Paul and the
Christians of the first century, we know that "we are not contending
against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the
powers, against the world rulers of this present darkness, against the

spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places." (Ephesians 6) As
Evangelicals and Catholics, we dare not by needless and loveless conflict
between ourselves give aid and comfort to the enemies of the cause of
Christ.

The love of Christ compels us and we are therefore resolved to avoid such
conflict between our communities and, where such conflict exists, to do
what we can to reduce and eliminate it. Beyond that, we are called and we
are therefore resolved to explore patterns of working and witnessing
together in order to advance the one mission of Christ. Our common
resolve is not based merely on a desire for harmony. We reject any
appearance of harmony that is purchased at the price of truth. Our common
resolve is made imperative by obedience to the truth of God revealed in
the Word of God, the Holy Scriptures, and by trust in the promise of the
Holy Spirit's guidance until Our Lord returns in glory to judge the
living and the dead.

The mission that we embrace together is the necessary consequence of the
faith that we affirm together.

1. WE AFFIRM TOGETHER

Jesus Christ is Lord. That is the first and final affirmation that
Christians make about all of reality. He is the One sent by God to be
Lord and Savior of all, "And there is salvation in no one else, for there
is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."
(Acts 4) Christians are people ahead of time, those who proclaim now what
will one day be acknowledged by all, that Jesus Christ is Lord.
(Philippians 2)

We affirm together that we are justified by grace through faith because
of Christ. Living faith is active in love that is nothing less than the
love of Christ, for we together say with Paul: "I have been crucified
with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and
the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who
loved me and gave himself for me." (Galatians 2)

All who accept Christ as Lord and Savior are brothers and sisters in
Christ. Evangelicals and Catholics are brothers and sisters in Christ. We
have not chosen one another, just as we have not chosen Christ. He has
chosen us, and he has chosen us to be his together. (John 15) However
imperfect our communion with one another, however deep our disagreements
with one another, we recognize that there is but one church of Christ.
There is one church because there is one Christ and the church is his
body. However difficult the way, we recognize that we are called by God
to a fuller realization of our unity in the body of Christ. The only
unity to which we would give expression is unity in the truth, and the
truth is this: "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called
to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one
baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all
and in all." (Ephesians 4)

We affirm together that Christians are to teach and live in obedience to
the divinely inspired Scriptures, which are the infallible Word of God.
We further affirm together that Christ has promised to his church the
gift of the Holy Spirit who will lead us into all truth in discerning and
declaring the teaching of Scripture. (John 16) We recognize together that
the Holy Spirit has so guided his church in the past. In, for instance,
the formation of the canon of the Scriptures, and in the orthodox
response to the great Christological and Trinitarian controversies of the
early centuries, we confidently acknowledge the guidance of the Holy
Spirit. In faithful response to the Spirit's leading, the church
formulated the Apostles Creed which we can and hereby do affirm together
as an accurate statement of Scriptural truth:

I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord. He was conceived by
the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He suffered
under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended
into hell. On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven, and
is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge
the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic Church, the communion of
saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the
life everlasting. Amen.

II. WE HOPE TOGETHER

We hope together that all people will come to faith in Jesus Christ as
Lord and Savior. This hope makes necessary the church's missionary zeal.
"But how are they to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And
how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are
they to hear without a preacher? And how can men preach unless they are
sent?" (Romans 10) The church is by nature, in all places and at all
times, in mission. Our missionary hope is inspired by the revealed desire
of God that "all should be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth."
(I Timothy 2)

The church lives by and for the Great Commission: "Go therefore and make
disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of
the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have
commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."
(Matthew 28)

Unity and love among Christians is an integral part of our missionary
witness to the Lord whom we serve. "A new commandment I give to you, that
you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one
another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have

love for one another." (John 13) If we do not love one another, we
disobey his command and contradict the Gospel we declare.

As Evangelicals and Catholics, we pray that our unity in the love of
Christ will become ever more evident as a sign to the world of God's
reconciling power. Our communal and ecclesial separations are deep and
long standing. We acknowledge that we do not know the schedule nor do we
know the way to the greater visible unity for which we hope. We do know
that existing patterns of distrustful polemic and conflict are not the
way. We do know that God who has brought us into communion with himself
through Christ intends that we also be in communion with one another. We
do know that Christ is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14) and as
we are drawn closer to him -- walking in that way, obeying that truth,
living that life -- we are drawn closer to one another.

Whatever may be the future form of the relationship between our
communities, we can, we must, and we will begin now the work required to
remedy what we know to be wrong in that relationship. Such work requires
trust and understanding, and trust and understanding require an assiduous
attention to truth. We do not deny but clearly assert that there are
disagreements between us. Misunderstandings, misrepresentations, and
caricatures of one another, however, are not disagreements. These
distortions must be cleared away if we are to search through our honest
differences in a manner consistent with what we affirm and hope together
on the basis of God's Word.

III. WE SEARCH TOGETHER

Together we search for a fuller and clearer understanding of God's
revelation in Christ and his will for his disciples. Because of the
limitations of human reason and language, which limitations are
compounded by sin, we cannot understand completely the transcendent
reality of God and his ways. Only in the End Time will we see face to
face and know as we are known. (I Corinthians 13) We now search together
in confident reliance upon God' s self-revelation in Jesus Christ, the
sure testimony of Holy Scripture, and the promise of the Spirit to his
church. In this search to understand the truth more fully and clearly, we
need one another. We are both informed and limited by the histories of
our communities and by our own experiences. Across the divides of
communities and experiences, we need to challenge one another, always
speaking the truth in love, and in order to build up the Body. (Ephesians
4)

We do not presume to suggest that we can resolve the deep and long
standing differences between Evangelicals and Catholics. Indeed these
differences may never be resolved short of the Kingdom Come. Nonetheless,
we are not permitted simply to resign ourselves to differences that
divide us from one another. Not all differences are authentic
disagreements, nor need all disagreements divide. Differences and
disagreements must be tested in disciplined and sustained conversation.
In this connection we warmly commend and encourage the formal theological
dialogues of recent years between Roman Catholics and Evangelicals.

We note some of the differences and disagreements that must be addressed
more fully and candidly in order to strengthen between us a relationship
of trust in obedience to truth. Among points of difference in doctrine,
worship, practice, and piety that are frequently thought to divide us are
these:

o The church as an integral part of the Gospel or the church as a
  communal consequence of the Gospel.
o The church as visible communion or invisible fellowship of true
  believers.
o The sole authority of Scripture (sola scriptura) or Scripture as
  authoritatively interpreted in the church.
o The soul freedom of the individual Christian or the Magisterium
  (teaching authority) of the community.
o The church as local congregation or universal communion.
o Ministry ordered in apostolic succession or the priesthood of all
  believers.
o Sacraments and ordinances as symbols of grace or means of grace.
o The Lord's Supper as eucharistic sacrifice or memorial meal.
o Remembrance of Mary and the saints or devotion to Mary and the saints.
o Baptism as sacrament of regeneration or testimony to regeneration.

This account of differences is by no means complete. Nor is the disparity
between positions always so sharp as to warrant the "or" in the above
formulations. Moreover, among those recognized as Evangelical Protestants
there are significant differences between, for example, Baptists,
Pentecostals, and Calvinists on these questions. But the differences
mentioned above reflect disputes that are deep and long standing. In at
least some instances, they reflect authentic disagreements that have been
in the past and are at present barriers to full communion between
Christians.

On these questions, and other questions implied by them, Evangelicals
hold that the Catholic Church has gone beyond Scripture, adding teachings
and practices that detract from or compromise the Gospel of God's saving
grace in Christ. Catholics, in turn, hold that such teachings and
practices are grounded in Scripture and belong to the fulness of God's
revelation. Their rejection, Catholics say, results in a truncated and
reduced understanding of the Christian reality.

	Again, we cannot resolve these disputes here. We can and do affirm
together that the entirety of Christian faith, life, and mission finds
its source, center, and end in the crucified and risen Lord. We can and
do pledge that we will continue to search together -- through study,
discussion, and prayer -- for a better understanding of one another's
convictions and a more adequate comprehension of the truth of God in
Christ. We can testify now that in our searching together we have

discovered what we can affirm together and what we can hope together and,
therefore, how we can contend together.

IV. WE CONTEND TOGETHER

As we are bound together by Christ and his cause, so we are bound
together in contending against all that opposes Christ and his cause. We
are emboldened not by illusions of easy triumph but by faith in his
certain triumph. Our Lord wept over Jerusalem, and he now weeps over a
world that does not know the time of its visitation. The raging of the
principalities and powers may increase as the End Time nears, but the
outcome of the contest is assured.

The cause of Christ is the cause and mission of the church, which is,
first of all, to proclaim the Good News that "God was in Christ
reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against
them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation." (2 Corinthians
5)  To proclaim this Gospel and to sustain the community of faith,
worship, and discipleship that is gathered by this Gospel is the first
and chief responsibility of the church. All other tasks and
responsibilities of the church are derived from and directed toward the
mission of the Gospel.

Christians individually and the church corporately also have a
responsibility for the right ordering of civil society. We embrace this
task soberly; knowing the consequences of human sinfulness, we resist the
utopian conceit that it is within our powers to build the Kingdom of God
on earth. We embrace this task hopefully; knowing that God has called us
to love our neighbor, we seek to secure for all a greater measure of
civil righteousness and justice, confident that he will crown our efforts
when he rightly orders all things in the coming of his Kingdom.

In the exercise of these public responsibilities there has been in recent
years a growing convergence and cooperation between Evangelicals and
Catholics. We thank God for the discovery of one another in contending
for a common cause. Much more important, we thank God for the discovery
of one another as brothers and sisters in Christ. Our cooperation as
citizens is animated by our convergence as Christians. We promise one
another that we will work to deepen, build upon, and expand this pattern
of convergence and cooperation.

Together we contend for the truth that politics, law, and culture must be
secured by morale truth. With the Founders of the American experiment, we
declare, "We hold these truths." With them, we hold that this
constitutional order is composed not just of rules and procedures but is
most essentially a moral experiment. With them, we hold that only a
virtuous people can be free and just, and that virtue is secured by
religion. To propose that securing civil virtue is the purpose of
religion is blasphemous. To deny that securing civil virtue is a benefit
of religion is blindness.

Americans are drifting away from, are often explicitly defying, the
constituting truths of this experiment in ordered liberty. Influential
sectors of the culture are laid waste by relativism,
anti-intellectualism, and nihilism that deny the very idea of truth.
Against such influences in both the elite and popular culture, we appeal
to reason and religion in contending for the foundational truths of our
constitutional order.

More specifically, we contend together for religious freedom. We do so
for the sake of religion, but also because religious freedom is the first
freedom, the source and shield of all human freedoms. In their
relationship to God, persons have a dignity and responsibility that
transcends, and thereby limits, the authority of the state and of every
other merely human institution.

Religious freedom is itself grounded in and is a product of religious
faith, as is evident in the history of Baptists and others in this
country. Today we rejoice together that the Roman Catholic Church -- as
affirmed by the Second Vatican Council and boldly exemplified in the
ministry of John Paul II -- is strongly committed to religious freedom
and, consequently, to the defense of all human rights. Where Evangelicals
and Catholics are in severe and sometimes violent conflict, such as parts
of Latin America, we urge Christians to embrace and act upon the
imperative of religious freedom. Religious freedom will not be respected
by the state if it is not respected by Christians or, even worse, if
Christians attempt to recruit the state in repressing religious freedom.

In this country, too, freedom of religion cannot be taken for granted but
requires constant attention. We strongly affirm the separation of church
and state, and just as strongly protest the distortion of that principle
to mean the separation of religion from public life. We are deeply
concerned by the courts' narrowing of the protections provided by the
"free exercise" provision of the First Amendment and by an obsession with
"no establishment" that stifles the necessary role of religion in
American life. As a consequence of such distortions, it is increasingly
the case that wherever government goes religion must retreat, and
government increasingly goes almost everywhere. Religion, which was
privileged and foundational in our legal order, has in recent years been
penalized and made marginal. We contend together for a renewal of the
constituting vision of the place of religion in the American experiment.

Religion and religiously grounded moral conviction is not an alien or
threatening force in our public life. For the great majority of
Americans, morality is derived, however variously and confusedly, from
religion. The argument, increasingly voiced in sectors of our political
culture, that religion should be excluded from the public square must be
recognized as an assault upon the most elementary principles of
democratic governance. That argument needs to be exposed and countered by
leaders, religious and other, who care about the integrity of our

constitutional order.

The pattern of convergence and cooperation between Evangelicals and
Catholics is, in large part, a result of common effort to protect human
life, especially the lives of the most vulnerable among us. With the
Founders, we hold that all human beings are endowed by their Creator with
the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The statement
that the unborn child is a human life that -- barring natural misfortune
or lethal intervention -- will become what everyone recognizes as a human
baby is not a religious assertion. It is a statement of simple biological
fact. That the unborn child has a right to protection, including the
protection of law, is a moral statement supported by moral reason and
Biblical truth.

We, therefore, will persist in contending -- we will not be discouraged
but will multiply every effort -- in order to secure the legal protection
of the unborn. Our goals are: to secure due process of law for the
unborn, to enact the most protective laws and public policies that are
politically possible, and to reduce dramatically the incidence of
abortion. We warmly commend those who have established thousands of
crisis pregnancy and post-natal care centers across the country, and urge
that such efforts be multiplied. As the unborn must be protected, so also
must women be protected from their current rampant exploitation by the
abortion industry and by fathers who refuse to accept responsibility for
women and children. Abortion on-demand, which is the current rule in
America, must be recognized as a massive attack on the dignity, rights,
and needs of women.

Abortion is the leading edge of an encroaching culture of death. The
helpless old, the radically handicapped, and others who cannot
effectively assert their rights are increasingly treated as though they
have no rights. These are the powerless who are exposed to the will and
whim of those who have power over them. We will do all in our power to
resist proposals for euthanasia, eugenics, and population control that
exploit the vulnerable, corrupt the integrity of medicine, deprave our
culture, and betray the moral truths of our constitutional order.

In public education, we contend together for schools that transmit to
coming generations our cultural heritage, which is inseparable from the
formative influence of religion, especially Judaism and Christianity.
Education for responsible citizenship and social behavior is inescapably
moral education. Every effort must be made to cultivate the morality of
honesty, law observance, work, caring, chastity, mutual respect between
sexes, and readiness for marriage, parenthood, and family. We reject the
claim that, in any or all of these areas, "tolerance" requires the
promotion of moral equivalence between the normative and the deviant. In
a democratic society that recognizes that parents have the primary
responsibility for the formation of their children, schools are to assist
and support, not oppose and undermine, parents in the exercise of their
responsibility.

We contend together for a comprehensive policy of parental choice in
education. This is a moral question of simple justice. Parents are the
primary educators of their children; the state and other institutions
should be supportive of their exercise of that responsibility. We affirm
policies that enable parents to effectively exercise their right and
responsibility to choose the schooling that they consider best for their
children.

We contend together against the widespread pornography in our society,
along with the celebration of violence, sexual depravity, and
anti-religious bigotry in the entertainment media. In resisting such
cultural and moral debasement, we recognize the legitimacy of boycotts
and other consumer actions, and urge the enforcement of existing laws
against obscenity. We reject the self-serving claim of the peddlers of
depravity that this constitutes illegitimate censorship. We reject the
assertion of the unimaginative that artistic creativity is to be measured
by the capacity to shock or outrage. A people incapable of defending
decency invites the rule of viciousness, both public and personal.

We contend for a renewed spirit of acceptance, understanding, and
cooperation across lines of religion, race, ethnicity, sex, and class. We
are all created in the image of God and are accountable to him. That
truth is the basis of individual responsibility and equality before the
law. The abandonment of that truth has resulted in a society at war with
itself, pitting citizens against one another in bitter conflicts of group
grievances and claims to entitlement. Justice and social amity require a
redirection of public attitudes and policies so that rights are joined to
duties and people are rewarded according to their character and
competence.

We contend for a free society with a vibrant market economy. A free
society requires a careful balancing between economics, politics, and
culture. Christianity is not an ideology and therefore does not prescribe
precisely how that balance is to be achieved in every circumstance. We
affirm the importance of a free economy not only because it is more
efficient but because it accords with a Christian understanding of human
freedom. Economic freedom, while subject to grave abuse, makes possible
the patterns of creativity, cooperation, and accountability that
contribute to the common good.

We contend together for a renewed appreciation of Western culture. In its
history and missionary reach, Christianity engages all cultures while
being captive to none. We are keenly aware of, and grateful for, the role
of Christianity in shaping and sustaining the Western culture of which we
are part. As with all of history, that culture is marred by human
sinfulness. Alone among world cultures, however, the West has cultivated
an attitude of self-criticism and of eagerness to learn from other
cultures. What is called multiculturalism can mean respectful attention
to human differences. More commonly today, however, multiculturalism

means affirming all cultures but our own. Welcoming the contributions of
other cultures and being ever alert to the limitations of our own, we
receive Western culture as our legacy and embrace it as our task in order
to transmit it as a gift to future generations.

We contend for public policies that demonstrate renewed respect for the
irreplaceable role of mediating structures in society -- notably the
family, churches, and myriad voluntary associations. The state is not the
society, and many of the most important functions of society are best
addressed in independence from the state. The role of churches in
responding to a wide variety of human needs, especially among the poor
and marginal, needs to be protected and strengthened. Moreover, society
is not the aggregate of isolated individuals bearing rights but is
composed of communities that inculcate responsibility, sustain shared
memory, provide mutual aid, and nurture the habits that contribute to
both personal well-being and the common good. Most basic among such
communities is the community of the family. Laws and social policies
should be designed with particular care for the stability and flourishing
of families. While the crisis of the family in America is by no means
limited to the poor or to the underclass, heightened attention must be
paid those who have become, as a result of well intended but misguided
statist policies, virtual wards of the government.

Finally, we contend for a realistic and responsible understanding of
America's part in world affairs. Realism and responsibility require that
we avoid both the illusions of unlimited power and righteousness, on the
one hand, and the timidity and selfishness of isolationism, on the other.
U.S. foreign policy should reflect a concern for the defense of democracy
and, wherever prudent and possible, the protection and advancement of
human rights, including religious freedom.

The above is a partial list of public responsibilities on which we
believe there is a pattern of convergence and cooperation between
Evangelicals and Catholics. We reject the notion that this constitutes a
partisan "religious agenda" in American politics. Rather, this is a set
of directions oriented to the common good and discussable on the basis of
public reason. While our sense of civic responsibility is informed and
motivated by Christian faith, our intention is to elevate the level of
political and moral discourse in a manner that excludes no one and
invites the participation of all people of good will. To that end,
Evangelicals and Catholics have made an inestimable contribution in the
past and, it is our hope, will contribute even more effectively in the
future.

We are profoundly aware that the American experiment has been, all in
all, a blessing to the world and a blessing to us as Evangelical and
Catholic Christians. We are determined to assume our full share of
responsibility for this "one nation under God," believing it to be a
nation under the judgment, mercy, and providential care of the Lord of
the nations to whom alone we render unqualified allegiance.

V. WE WITNESS TOGETHER

The question of Christian witness unavoidably returns us to points of
serious tension between Evangelicals and Catholics. Bearing witness to
the saving power of Jesus Christ and his will for our lives is an
integral part of Christian discipleship. The achievement of good will and
cooperation between Evangelicals and Catholics must not be at the price
of the urgency and clarity of Christian witness to the Gospel. At the
same time, and as noted earlier, Our Lord has made clear that the
evidence of love among his disciples is an integral part of that
Christian witness.

Today, in this country and elsewhere, Evangelicals and Catholics attempt
to win "converts" from one another's folds. In some ways, this is
perfectly understandable and perhaps inevitable. In many instances,
however, such efforts at recruitment undermine the Christian mission by
which we are bound by God's Word and to which we have recommitted
ourselves in this statement. It should be clearly understood between
Catholics and Evangelicals that Christian witness is of necessity aimed
at conversion. Authentic conversion is -- in its beginning, in its end,
and all along the way -- conversion to God in Christ by the power of the
Spirit. In this connection, we embrace as our own the explanation of the
Baptist-Roman Catholic International Conversation (1988):

Conversion is turning away from all that is opposed to God, contrary to
Christ's teaching, and turning to God, to Christ, the Son, through the
work of the Holy Spirit. It entails a turning from the self-centeredness
of sin to faith in Christ as Lord and Savior. Conversion is a passing
from one way of life to another new one, marked with the newness of
Christ. It is a continuing process so that the whole life of a Christian
should be a passage from death to life, from error to truth, from sin to
grace. Our life in Christ demands continual growth in God's grace.
Conversion is personal but not private. Individuals respond in faith to
God's call but faith comes from hearing the proclamation of the word of
God and is to be expressed in the life together in Christ that is the
Church.

By preaching, teaching, and life example, Christians witness to
Christians and non-Christians alike. We seek and pray for the conversion
of others, even as we recognize our own continuing need to be fully
converted. As we strive to make Christian faith and life -- our own and
that of others -- ever more intentional rather than nominal, ever more
committed rather than apathetic, we also recognize the different forms
that authentic discipleship can take. As is evident in the two thousand
year history of the church, and in our contemporary experience, there are
different ways of being Christian, and some of these ways are
distinctively marked by communal patterns of worship, piety, and
catechesis. That we are all to be one does not mean that we are all to be
identical in our way of following the one Christ. Such distinctive

patterns of discipleship, it should be noted, are amply evident within
the communion of the Catholic Church as well as within the many worlds of
Evangelical Protestantism.

It is understandable that Christians who bear witness to the Gospel try
to persuade others that their communities and traditions are more fully
in accord with the Gospel. There is a necessary distinction between
evangelizing and what is today commonly called proselytizing or "sheep
stealing." We condemn the practice of recruiting people from another
community for purposes of denominational or institutional aggrandizement.
At the same time, our commitment to full religious freedom compels us to
defend the legal freedom to proselytize even as we call upon Christians
to refrain from such activity.

Three observations are in order in connection with proselytizing. First,
as much as we might believe one community is more fully in accord with
the Gospel than another, we as Evangelicals and Catholics affirm that
opportunity and means for growth in Christian discipleship are available
in our several communities. Second, the decision of the committed
Christian with respect to his communal allegiance and participation must
be assiduously respected. Third, in view of the large number of
non-Christians in the world and the enormous challenge of our common
evangelistic task, it is neither theologically legitimate nor a prudent
use of resources for one Christian community to proselytize among active
adherents of another Christian community.

Christian witness must always be made in a spirit of love and humility.
It must not deny but must readily accord to everyone the full freedom to
discern and decide what is God's will for his life. Witness that is in
service to the truth is in service to such freedom. Any form of coercion
-- physical, psychological, legal, economic -- corrupts Christian witness
and is to be unqualifiedly rejected. Similarly, bearing false witness
against other persons and communities, or casting unjust and uncharitable
suspicions upon them, is incompatible with the Gospel. Also to be
rejected is the practice of comparing the strengths and ideals of one
community with the weaknesses and failures of another. In describing the
teaching and practices of other Christians, we must strive do so in a way
that they would recognize as fair and accurate.

In considering the many corruptions of Christian witness, we,
Evangelicals and Catholics, confess that we have sinned against one
another and against God. We most earnestly ask the forgiveness of God and
one another, and pray for the grace to amend our own lives and that of
our communities.

Repentance and amendment of life do not dissolve remaining differences
between us. In the context of evangelization and "reevangelization," we
encounter a major difference in our understanding of the relationship
between baptism and the new birth in Christ. For Catholics, all who are
validly baptized are born again and are truly, however imperfectly, in
communion with Christ. That baptismal grace is to be continuingly
reawakened and revivified through conversion. For most Evangelicals, but
not all, the experience of conversion is to be followed by baptism as a
sign of new birth. For Catholics, all the baptized are already members of
the church, however dormant their faith and life; for many Evangelicals,
the new birth requires baptismal initiation into the community of the
born again. These differing beliefs about the relationship between
baptism, new birth, and membership in the church should be honestly
presented to the Christian who has undergone conversion. But again, his
decision regarding communal allegiance and participation must be
assiduously respected.

There are, then, differences between us that cannot be resolved here. But
on this we are resolved: All authentic witness must be aimed at
conversion to God in Christ by the power of the Spirit. Those converted
-- whether understood as having received the new birth for the first time
or as having experienced the reawakening of the new birth originally
bestowed in the sacrament of baptism -- must be given full freedom and
respect as they discern and decide the community in which they will live
their new life in Christ. In such discernment and decision, they are
ultimately responsible to God, and we dare not interfere with the
exercise of that responsibility. Also in our differences and
disagreements, we Evangelicals and Catholics commend one another to God
"who by the power at work within us is able to do far more abundantly
than all that we ask or think." (Ephesians 3)

In this discussion of witnessing together we have touched on difficult
and long standing problems. The difficulties must not be permitted to
overshadow the truths on which we are, by the grace of God, in firm
agreement. As we grow in mutual understanding and trust, it is our hope
that our efforts to evangelize will not jeopardize but will reinforce our
devotion to the common tasks to which we have pledged ourselves in this
statement.

CONCLUSION

Nearly two thousand years after it began, and nearly five hundred years
after the divisions of the Reformation era, the Christian mission to the
world is vibrantly alive and assertive. We do not know, we cannot know,
what the Lord of history has in store for the Third Millennium. It may be
the springtime of world missions and great Christian expansion. It may be
the way of the cross marked by persecution and apparent marginalization.
In different places and times, it will likely be both. Or it may be that
Our Lord will return tomorrow.

We do know that his promise is sure, that we are enlisted for the
duration, and that we are in this together. We do know that we must
affirm and hope and search and contend and witness together, for we
belong not to ourselves but to him who has purchased us by the blood of
the cross. We do know that this is a time of opportunity -- and, if of

opportunity, then of responsibility -- for Evangelicals and Catholics to
be Christians together in a way that helps prepare the world for the
coming of him to whom belongs the kingdom, the power, and the glory
forever. Amen.

=========================================================================
This statement appeared in the May 1994 issue of First Things, a monthly
journal published in New York City by the Institute on Religion and
Public Life.
=========================================================================
This statement may be copied and/or circulated provided that the above
notice is included.
=========================================================================
This statement was scanned and proofread from an original by
[email protected] Permission to copy and post was obtained from Matthew
Berke at the Institute on Religion and Public Life.
=========================================================================

PRESS RELEASE

COLSON KEY PARTICIPANT IN STATEMENT OF EVANGELICAL, CATHOLIC COOPERATION

New York, March 29, 1994--Charles Colson joined a group of Christian
leaders in releasing here today a declaration that explains and
celebrates "a pattern of convergence and cooperation" between
evangelicals and Catholics in Christian faith, common cultural and social
tasks, and evangelisitic commitment.

The declaration, initiated by Colson, chairman of Prison Fellowship
Ministries, and Father Richard John Neuhaus of the Institute on Religion
and Public Life, declares: "We together, evangelicals and Catholics,
confess our sins against the unity that Chirst intends for all his
disciples."

The statemnet contains a joint affirmation that "Christians are to teach
and live in obedience to the divinely inspired Scriptures, which are the
infallible word of God," while rejecting "any appearance of harmony that
is purchased at the price of truth." The statement lists areas where
Catholics and evangelicals still hold different understandings of the
church, sacraments, ministry, saints and the role of the Bible.

	"We have differences," Colson said, "but on the ancient creeds and the
core beliefs of Christianity we stand together. Christianity is besieged
on all sides--by a militant nation of Islam, by pantheists who have
invaded many areas of life through the New Age Movement, and by the
aggressive secularism of Western life."

Thirty-nine scholars and Christan leaders endorsed the 25-page statement.
In addition to Colson and Neuhaus, they include: Rev. Pat Robertson,
Professor J.I. Packer, Dr. Os Guinness, Dr. Kent Hill, Dr. Richard Land,
Dr. John White, Dr. Bill Bright, Rev. Avery Dulles, John Cardinal
O'Connor, Archbishop Francis Stafford, Bishop Carlos Sevilla, George
Weigel and Michael Novak.

    I believe Bill Bright is the head of Campus Crusade for Christ.

Yes, Bill Bright is Campus Crusade for Christ.

Re: 498.6, I don't think that this is a document expressing "unity" in any 
substantial sense; it basically says that we have common enemies, viz. this
culture of death, that we need to fight together, and although we cannot
agree theologically -- and it takes great pains to point out the great gulf
between the two faiths -- we can certainly at least recognize each other as
Christians with common goals and a common Enemy.  It doesn't seek union so
much as it seeks to stop infighting and hatred towards one another.

That being said, I will say that while I agree with 99% of the statement, I
can't agree with the suggestion that Catholics should stop evangelizing
other Christians and attempting to bring them into the fullness of Gospel
truth and lead them to the fullness of the means of salvation. But if it
stops anti-Catholics from leading people out of our church, I will be happy;
I am a practical person.

Eric

    Eric, could you net it out for me...I honestly don't have time to read
    each of these letters. :-)  Pweeze?
    
    

    I have not read it all, but of what I did read, I would say this:
    Unlike these people profess, my religion is older than 2000 years. The
    God I worship is the SAME one Abraham, Issac and Jacob worshipped. 
    
    
    PDM

    There were also monks that tried to reform at least 1000 years before
    Martin Luther did.  They lost their lives for it though.

    RE:13

    Er,... uhm, what monks were they ?

    Augustinians ?

    Jim

The Gospel Betrayed - Dave Hunt from "The Berean Call," May 1994
----------------------------------------------------------------
The most significant event in almost 500 years of church history took place
March 29, 1994.  Leading evangelicals and Catholics signed a joint declaration,
"Evangelicals and Catholics Together: The Christian Mission in the 3rd
Millennium."  The document overturns the Reformation and does incalculable
damage to the cause of Christ.  The news release said:

     "They toiled together in the movements against abortion and pornography,
     and now leading Catholics and evangelicals are asking their flocks for a
     remarkable leap of faith: to finally accept each other as Christians...
     [E]vangelicals including Pat Robertson and Charles Colson joined with
     conservative Roman Catholic leaders today in upholding the ties of faith
     that bind [them]...They urged Catholics and evangelicals...to stop
     aggressive proselytization of each other's flocks.

     John White, president of Geneva College and former president of the
     National Association of Evangelicals, said the statement represents a
     "triumphalistic moment" in American religious life...

     Other evangelical endorsers include the heads of the Home Mission Board and
     Christian Life Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, the nation's
     largest Protestant denomination, and Bill Bright, found of Campus Crusade
     for Christ...Mark Noll of Wheaton University...[Os Guinness, Jesse Miranda
     (Assemblies of God), Richard Mouw (President, Fuller Seminary), J.I.
     Packer and Herbert Schlossberg]."

Robert Simonds, Southern California chairman of the National Association of
Evangelicals, "applauded the declaration" and said he hopes it will bring
"increased cooperation between evangelicals and Catholics..."  But the fruit of
such "cooperation" has not been good in the past.  Evangelicals working beside
Catholics, Mormons, Moonies, et al., for common social or political aims (for
example, in Pat Robertson's Christian Coalition) will not witness to their
"partners in action" for fear of offending them and breaking up the coalition.
Such compromise laid the foundation for this alliance - a development monitored
closely and approved by the Vatican.

I neither impugn the motives nor question the salvation of the evangelical
signers.  Yet I believe the document represents the most devastating blow
against the gospel in at least 1,000 years.  Already the declaration is being
"translated into Spanish, Polish, Portuguese, and Russian for circulation
throughout Latin America and Eastern Europe."  Soon it will have a revolutionary
impact worldwide.

Having carefully read the 25-page fifth draft marked "Not for general
circulation," I appreciate the loving concern for both truth and unity expressed
therein.  Some key differences between Catholics and evangelicals are noted
without compromise.  But the most important difference - what it means to be
saved - is not mentioned and, in fact, is directly denied.

Amazingly, the document claims that all Catholics are Christians, hold the same
faith as evangelicals, and are our "brothers and sisters in Christ."  If so,
then the Reformation was a tragic mistake which we all must denounce!  On this
sad juncture in church history, the last words of Hugh Latimer ring in our
conscience.  Bound back-to-back to the stake with Nicholas Ridley, Latimer,
England's most effective gospel preacher at that time, was heard to exclaim as
the flames engulfed them, "Be of good comfort, Master Ridley, and play the man.
We shall this day, by God's grace, light such a candle in England as I pray
shall never be put out."  How incredible that the last spark of that Reformation
"candle" is now being extinguished by evangelical leaders who owe so much to the
very faithfulness of such martyrs!

For 1,000 years before the Reformation, there were always groups of evangelical
Christians outside the Catholic Church, millions of whom were slaughtered for
obeying Scripture instead of Rome.  Pope Pius III killed 60,000 in one day when
his forces wiped out the entire town of Beziers, France, an act which he
considered the "crowning achievement of his papacy."  Martin Luther acknowledged
his debt to there earlier martyrs:

     "We are not the first to declare the papacy to be the kingdom of
     antichrist, since for many years before us so many and such great men
     (whose number is large and whose memory is eternal) have undertaken to
     express the same thing so clearly and plainly."

Through the example of these Vaudois, Albigenses, Waldenses and other early
evangelicals, and from the Bibles they preserved, a few Roman Catholic priests
and monks realized that their Church didn't preach the truth and that they and
their fellow Catholics were not saved, but lost.  Men like John Wycliff
(1329-84), Jan Hus (1373-1415) and Johannes Geiler von Kaysersberg (1445-1510)
believed the gospel and began preaching it.  They hoped their Church could be
reformed.  In response, Rome consigned many of these faithful gospel preachers
to the flames.  Later Luther and other Reformers, all Roman Catholics, also
became convinced that neither they nor their fellow Catholics were saved.  They
began preaching salvation by grace through faith instead of Catholicism's false
gospel of sacramental rituals and works.  For this they were excommunicated and
untold thousands more were martyred.

Such is the heritage of today's evangelicals, which this document now rejects.
We are asked to believe that the Reformers were deluded, that like all active
Catholics today they were saved but didn't know it; the tens of millions of
Catholics who since then have received Christ by faith alone and left the
Catholic Church have also been deceived; the whole evangelical church of today
is equally deluded about what it means to be a Christian.  Colson, Robertson,
Bright, et al. have revised both history and doctrine.

Evangelicals would decry the complacent attitude that everyone raised in and/or
attending a Protestant church is a Christian.  Lost sinners need to be saved.
How, then, did leading evangelicals decide that all active Catholics are
Christians and must not hereafter be evangelized?  The agreement states that
both Catholics and evangelicals accept the Apostles' Creed: that Christ
"suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried."  That
creed, however, does not express the gospel that saves (Romans 1:16): that
"Christ died for our sin" (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).  Mormons affirm the Apostles
Creed, but they aren't Christians.  Nor does affirming it make Catholics (or
Protestants) Christians.

Catholicism's false gospel hasn't changed.  It diametrically opposes the
evangelical view of what Christ's crucifixion and forgiveness of sins mean.  Let
me quote from Vatican II, Flannery's Edition, Vol. 1 (the same teaching is
affirmed by the new universal "Catechism of the Catholic Church" just released
by the Vatican).  This is what Catholicism teach and Catholics believe and
practice today:

     "Christ's death earned 'satisfactions and merits' which have been deposited
     into a 'Treasury' to which have been added 'the prayers and good works of
     the Blessed Virgin Mary [and] the prayers and good works of all the
     saints [beyond what they needed for their own salvation].

     From the most ancient times in the Church *good works were also offered to
     God for the salvation of sinners*...Indeed, [by] *the prayers and good
     works* of holy people...the penitent was washed, cleansed and *redeemed*...
     Following in Christ's steps, those who believe in him have always...
     carried their crosses to make expiation for their own sins and the sins of
     others.  They were convinced that they could [by such good works and
     sacrifices] help their brothers to *obtain salvation* from God...
     (pp. 64-66)"

Out of this "treasury of the Church" *salvation/redemption* is dispensed in
installments by the Catholic clergy through the seven sacraments.  One never
passes "from death to life" (John 5:24) but is always earning salvation with the
Church's help.  In fact, excommunication is the penalty for saying one is saved
and knows he has eternal life through faith in Christ's finished work.  The very
heart of the gospel which evangelicals affirm is denied by Catholicism in all
its creeds, catechisms, canons and decrees and dogmas, and those who dare to
affirm it are anathemized.  Vatican II's first page declares,

     "For it is the liturgy [sacrament rituals] through which, especially in the
     divine *sacrifice* of the Eucharist, *the work of our redemption is
     accomplished*."

So redemption/salvation is in process of being effected by Church sacraments.
But Paul wrote, "In whom we *have* [present possession, an accomplished fact
through Christ] redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins"
(Ephesians 1:7, Colossians 1:14).  Hebrews 9:12 says, "...by his own blood he
entered in once [for all time] into the holy place [heaven], *having obtained
eternal redemption for us*."  Redemption is finished!  But that truth is
consistently and insistently denied.

Even Christ's death is an ongoing process, so the Mass is not a *remembrance* of
a finished work but a *sacrifice* which obtains forgiveness of sins and from
which "graces and merits" flow in a partial installments.  This is from the
"Pocket Catholic Dictionary":

     "The Mass is a truly *propitiatory sacrifice [by which] the Lord is
     appeased* [and]...pardons wrongdoings and sins... Finally the Mass is the
     divinely ordained *means of applying* the merits of Calvary.  Christ won
     for the world all the graces it needs for salvation and sanctification.
     But these blessings are *conferred gradually and continually*...mainly
     through the Mass...the priest is indispensable, since he alone by his
     powers can change the elements of the bread and wine into the body and
     blood of Christ...the more often the sacrifice [of the Mass] is offered
     the more benefit is conferred [i.e., Calvary wasn't enough] (pp. 248-9)."

The Mass continues to transmit installments of grace even after one has died, as
relatives buy "Mass cards" which are laid upon the altar during Mass in the name
of the deceased in order to shorten purgatorial suffering.  Christ's death
couldn't get us to heaven, but Masses, Hail Marys, good works, "bearing one's
cross" for others, etc. will do so.  Earned "indulgences" also shorten time in
purgatory.  Charles Colson says indulgences are no longer part of Catholicism
("The Body", p. 271).  In fact, Vatican II devotes 17 pages to indulgences (pp.
62-79) and *anathemizes anyone who rejects that doctrine* (p. 71)!

"But surely you don't deny that *some* Catholics are saved!" is the objection
when one presents the truth about Catholicism.  That some Catholics may be saved
is possible, but that is a far cry from this document's implication that *all*
are saved.  And to be saved, a Catholic would have to believe the true gospel
and reject Catholicism's false gospel.  One can't believe two contradictory
propositions at the same time: one can't believe Christ obtained redemption
through His blood and also believe redemption is being accomplished through
Catholic liturgy; one can't believe salvation is by faith and "not of works" and
at the same time believe that good works earn salvation (see quote above).

Paul declared that "all have sinned" (Romans 3:23) and need to be "saved" from
God's eternal judgment upon sinners.  He also insisted that one can be saved
*only* by believing "the gospel of Christ" (Romans 1:16).  The early church
"turned the world upside down" (Acts 17:6) with the preaching of this gospel, a
gospel which Roman Catholicism has denied for 1,500 years.

I have been in contact with thousands of Catholics who were saved and left that
Church.  *Not one* ever heard the true gospel preached there.  *Not one* was
saved by being a Catholic, but by believing a gospel which is anathema to
Catholics.  In a recent survey of 2,000 homes in Spain, only 2 Protestants knew
the gospel, which 1,998 Catholics thought good works, church attendance, etc.
would get them to heaven.  In their 15 years of evangelizing Spain, missionaries
with whom I spoke had *never met one* Catholic who was saved or who knew how to
be saved.  Knowing that these millions of Catholics are lost causes evangelicals
there to work day and night to bring them the gospel!

And now we are asked to refrain from sharing the gospel with those who
desperately need it and to assume them already saved, when their own doctrines
forbid this assurance.  It is outrageous that leading evangelicals have placed
nearly 25% of the world's population off limits for evangelization!
Missionaries must now leave Catholic countries such as Spain, Italy, and those
in Latin America - such is the tragic implication of this document!

Paul told the Philippian jailer that if he would believe on the Lord Jesus
Christ (that is, personally put his faith in Him as His Savior who had died for
His sins and risen again) he would be saved.  That being "saved" was a
once-for-all transformation effected by placing one's complete trust for
eternity in the finished work of Christ alone has been proclaimed by generations
of preachers such as Wesley, Whitefield, Spurgeon and Moody and by missionary
giants such as C.T. Studd, Hudson Taylor, and David Livingstone.  We are now
being told, however, that such men and women who gave their lives to bring the
gospel to the lost wasted their time if they preached to Catholics.  Tell that
to the millions of ex-Catholics who thank God with tears that someone loved them
enough to tell them the truth!

Instead of rejoicing in these souls being saved, Colson says he and others had
become "distressed by the clashes arising from the growth of evangelical
Protestantism in traditionally Catholic Latin America and, more recently, in
traditionally Catholic or Eastern Orthodox areas of Central Europe and Russian."
Go to Latin America, Mr. Colson, and see the paganism and spiritism mixed with
Catholicism!  See the tragedy of souls by the millions going into a Christless
eternity because they have been deceived by Roman Catholicism!  Thank God that
millions of Catholics are accepting the gospel and now know they have eternal
life (1 John 5:13)!  Yet the signers of this treacherous document denounce the
conversions of Catholics and ask us to stop rescuing them from hell!

We have warned of growing ecumenism, explained the difference between the false
works gospel of Catholicism and the Biblical gospel, and exposed the growing
unity between Catholics and the very evangelicals who have signed this
agreement.  I have sent photocopies of pertinent sections from Vatican II, Trent
and catechisms to some of these men, with no response to the issues.  They
cannot be excused on the grounds of ignorance.

The most tragic result of this historic development will be to prevent the
gospel from being presented to lost millions who have now been wrongly
reclassified by evangelical leaders as Christians.    A disaster of almost equal
proportions will result from this document's endorsement of Catholicism's false
gospel, thereby encouraging multitudes to believe it.  Unless we speak up
boldly, the much needed warnings against some of Satan's cleverest lies will be
silenced.

If we truly love lost souls about us, no matter what their religious
affiliation, we will increase our efforts to bring them the truth of the gospel
before it is forever too late.  Pray with us that "The Berean Call" will be used
mightily to bring lost souls everywhere into the light of the glorious gospel of
our Lord Jesus Christ.  Let us together stand firm against the spiritual
darkness which threatens to extinguish the candle that martyrs like Latimer and
Ridley so faithfully lit.

Here Mike goes again, trying to stir up divisions between Catholics and
Protestants, wishing to exclude us Catholics from the Christian faith.

All I have to say is that I see nothing less than demonic influence in the
crusades of lies some people have against the Catholic Church.  I have met a
number of people with the anti-Catholic zeal of Dave Hunt.  None of them
exhibit the fruits of the Holy Spirit, and they all show more zeal for opposing
Catholic doctrine and promoting their own than they do for the person of
Christ.

Dave Hunt shows serious historical ignorance for one thing.  (Groups such as
the Vaudois, Albigenses, and Waldenses believed doctrines that would shock many
of you, besides the fact that few were as evangelical Dave Hunt would like to
think.  And Wycliff's translation of the Bible was intentionally corrupted to
promote his doctrine.)

His portrayal of Catholic doctrine is similarly twisted for his own purposes.
He makes an interesting quote from Flannery volume 1. I have Flannery at home
and I hope to call him on this when I get there, but given the page number he
gives, and remembering the order of the documents in Flannery and doing a
online search in the files I have online, I find nothing even bearing a passing
resemblance to the quote he gives, besides the fact that the quote he gives --
or at the very least the implication he leaves by his editing of it -- implies
doctrines that have been condemned by ecumenical councils.

He quotes the Pocket Catholic dictionary:

     "The Mass is a truly *propitiatory sacrifice [by which] the Lord is
     appeased* [and]...pardons wrongdoings and sins... Finally the Mass is the
     divinely ordained *means of applying* the merits of Calvary.  Christ won
     for the world all the graces it needs for salvation and sanctification.
     But these blessings are *conferred gradually and continually*...mainly
     through the Mass...the priest is indispensable, since he alone by his
     powers can change the elements of the bread and wine into the body and
     blood of Christ...the more often the sacrifice [of the Mass] is offered
     the more benefit is conferred [i.e., Calvary wasn't enough] (pp. 248-9)."

This quote indeed betrays some of Hunt's deceit, but let me explain it
further.

The Mass is a truly propitiatory sacrifice by which the Lord is appeased
because it is one and the same sacrifice with Calvary.  We believe that Christ
established the Eucharist as a means by which we could make the one sacrifice
of Calvary present for us over and over again, so that Christ's saving and
completed work might be applied to us.  There is no concept of a resacrifice of
Jesus or any concept of another or additional sacrifice, because the Mass is
one and the same sacrifice of Calvary, through which we are able to receive its
cleansing fruits.

Hunt I am sure would not deny that one needs to accept Christ's sacrifice on
the Cross in order to be saved.  Nor would he accuse someone who "claimed the
blood of Jesus over" their sins of blasphemy. If I were to ask him if either of
these actions were an "additional work" which "adds to the completed work of
Christ" he would look at me like I was crazy.  Yet that is exactly why we
believe Christ established the Holy Eucharist: through the Eucharist, we accept
Christ's sacrifice and are washed in his blood, but not merely in metaphor or
in intention, but we we actually and truly take into our bodies the flesh of
our savior which was sacrificed once for our sins, and we drink the blood that
was poured out for us on Calvary so that we might have a share in that saving
fountain which poured from his side on the cross.

Hunt confuses REDEMPTION with SALVATION.  Our REDEMPTION was accomplished on
Calvary, and is infinite in value, and totally efficacious. But in order to
benefit from Christ's sacrifice, we have to ACCEPT and RECEIVE it.  Christ's
sacrifice does no good for the millions of people who don't take advantage of
it!!  When we say that "the more often the sacrifice is offered, the more
benefit is conferred", we mean that the more often we accept Christ's
redemption and His sacrifice on the Cross, and the more deeply we drink from
the river of life which flows from his one sacrifice, the more we grow in
holiness and justice and the more we are conformed to the image of Christ.

> I have been in contact with thousands of Catholics who were saved and left
> that Church.  *Not one* ever heard the true gospel preached there.  *Not one*
> was saved by being a Catholic, but by believing a gospel which is anathema to
> Catholics.

Given his attitude toward Catholics, I doubt that he would bother to look very
hard for true-believing Catholics, especially given the threat they would pose
to his own faith.

Perhaps he should read the writings of Scott Hahn, Gerry Matatics, Thomas
Howard, Mark Shea, and many other believing Protestants who not only found the
Gospel in the Catholic Church, but left their own churches to join it for that
reason.

Anyway, I think that die-hard, bitter, joyless, narrow-minded anti-Catholics of
the Reformed tradition are going to increasingly find themselves an anachronism
in this world as the true friends and enemies of Christ are revealed.

    FWIW, I like the statement that Chuck Colson, Bill Bright, etc. are
    making.  Being a Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Pentecostal, etc.
    doesn't make you a Christian or exclude you from being a Christian.  
    
    Its only a through a personal relationship with Christ that we are
    reconciled to God.  We need to love our brothers and sisters in the
    faith.
    
    Bing

    We, the moderators of the CHRISTIAN conference, have reviewed the 
    discussions in note 499, and the following represents our unanimous 
    conclusions.

    Any forum for discussing spiritual matters will inevitably be a sensitive
    place, where strongly contentious views will conflict.  As moderators, we
    endeavour to hold a balance, not only accomodating the many flavours of
    Christians who participate, but also endeavouring to make this a place of
    favourable witness to many non-Christians, to whom we are on display.

    We welcome many expressions of unity and faith, when founded upon a clear
    Biblical basis.  Obiviously, different views are held, even as to what
    constitutes 'a clear Biblical basis'.  However, when other authorities
    creep in, conflict becomes inevitable.

    Both in the interests of maintaining a peaceful balance, and in view of
    our responsiblity towards digital, significant care has to be taken to
    guard against any difference of stance from becoming personally directed.
    
    With the unlocking of this note for further discussion, it is important
    that all participants bear in mind that no-one is a Christian by virtue
    of being a Catholic, Protestant, or a member of any other denomination.
    A Christian is only one who is trusting in the work of the LORD Jesus
    Christ on the cross alone for salvation.

						Jim Henderson
						Bing Hunt
						Nancy Morales
						Andrew Yuille
					co-moderators, CHRISTIAN conference
    

>In a recent survey of 2,000 homes in Spain, only 2 Protestants knew the
>gospel, which 1,998 Catholics thought good works, church attendance, etc.
>would get them to heaven.

Since the Roman Catholic Church does not teach that good works, church
attendance, etc., will get anyone to heaven, something is wrong here --
I suspect someone is biasing the survey by asking questions designed to
get wrong answers.

Those who claim that the Catholic Church teaches that salvation is by
church attendance are bearing false witness and should repent.  Christians
have the duty to become properly informed of both sides of important
issues; reading only the material that Mike Heiser has been posting,
material full of lies about the Catholic Church, is not becoming properly
informed.

I quote two separate sources to refute Mike's claim that the Catholic
Church teaches a false gospel of salvation by church attendance:

First I quote from the Navarre Bible Commentary on Matthew 22:1-14, the
parable of the marriage feast.

   "The marriage", says St Gregory the Great (In Evangelia homiliae, 36)
   "is the wedding of Christ and his Church, and the garment is the virtue
   of charity: a person who goes to the feast without a wedding garment is
   someone who believes in the Church but does not have charity."

   The wedding garment signifies the dispositions a person needs for
   entering the Kingdom of heaven.  Even though he belongs to the Church,
   if he does not have these dispositions [faith, hope, and charity, these
   three] he will be condemned on the day when God judges all mankind.
   These dispositions essentially mean responding to grace.

And I also quote from the Catechism:

   Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation
   is necessary for obtaining that salvation.  "Since `without faith it is
   impossible to please [God]' and to attain to the fellowship of his sons,
   therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will
   anyone obtain eternal life `but he who endures to the end.'"

	(The above is paragraph 161, which cites Mk 16:16; Jn 3:36; 6:40,
	 Mt 10:22; 24:13; Heb 11:6 and also cites the Council of Trent.)

   The name "Jesus" signifies that the very name of God is present in the
   person of his Son, made man for the universal and definitive redemption
   from sins.  It is the divine name that alone brings salvation, and
   henceforth all can invoke his name, for Jesus united himself to all
   men through his Incarnation, so that "there is no other name under
   heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

	(The above is paragraph 432, which cites Jn 3:18; Acts 2:21; 5:41;
	 3 Jn 7; Rom 10:6-13 and Acts 4:12; 9:14; and James 2:7.)

   Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however
   persevere in charity is not saved.  He remains indeed in the bosom
   of the Church, but `in body' not `in heart'.

	(The above is the end of paragrap 837, which cites the Vatican II
	 document Lumen Gentium.)

Thus you can see that the Catholic Church teaches that merely going to Church
does not save -- faith is an absolute requirement.

Thus I again call those who would spread false witness about the teachings of
the Catholic Church to learn the authentic teaching and repent of this bearing
of false witness.

/john

re.26

John,

>Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however
>   persevere in charity is not saved.

	This statement is not according to the New Testament revelation.

	Only saved ones make up the church His Body. It is impossible to be
a part of the church and not be saved. The word for church in the greek
literally means "called out assembly". Also, called out ones are not
"incorporated" into the church His Body, they are organically united to it
through His Spirit. This is the revelation of the New Testament.

	In short, there is no such thing in the New Testament as unsaved ones
being part of the church, since saved ones *are* the church.

Regards,
Ace

Ace, this gets into the OSAS debate, and is also an issue of semantics;
the Catholic teaching takes care of this by pointing out that he who
does not persevere in charity is only in the Church in body, but not
in heart -- i.e. not sufficiently in the Church to be saved.  See line
57 of reply .26.

I don't see any difference between the word "incorporated" and "organically
united with the body".  "Incorporated" means "made part of a body".  When
used in a theological discussion, has nothing to do with common business
parlance.

I thing we agree that those who believe and are baptized are made organically
part of Christ's body, the Church.

What we will not agree on (and this isn't a Catholic/Protestant argument,
it's an OSAS argument) is whether it is possible for someone to be
made part of Christ's body, and then turn into a grumpy grouch later
and not persist in charity.  OSAS would say that the person wasn't
ever really in Christ's body, or it wouldn't have been possible for
this person to sin by giving up charity.

Let's not carry on the OSAS debate in this topic, since OSAS is a matter
of how you interpret Scripture and your idea of time inside the universe
and the lack of time outside the universe, in heaven.  And what we think
about time is mostly speculative theology.

/john

re.28

John,

>the Catholic teaching takes care of this by pointing out that he who
>does not persevere in charity is only in the Church in body, but not
>in heart -- i.e. not sufficiently in the Church to be saved. 

	Then that teaching must be wrong as it contradicts the Bible. There is
only one way to be in the church. Either you are united to it by the Lord's
life, or you are not. 

	For me, it is not an OSAS matter whatsoever. Unsaved people are not
members of Christ, therefore a church that has unsaved members must not be the
church of the Bible. The church is His Body, therefore every person who has
received His life is a member of that Body and everyone who has not received His
life is not a member of that Body. There is no middle ground. Charity is not a
deciding factor. Only a life relationship between the members and the Head
decide what is the church and what is not.

	My view of course.

Regards,
Ace