Conference yukon::christian_v7

Hi Bob,


>	I would like to ask another question.

>	Does God like us?

I don't believe that we can leave love out of this discussion.

Going back to basics.  We all have fallen short of the glory of God. Sin
separates man from God. God Himself is love, love is the nature of God.
God pursues a love relationship with us that is real and personal.  God
loves us un-conditionally.


>	It says for God so loved the world....But does He like any of us?

God does not have to like anyone. He is God.  God has compassion for His
creation.  God created us in His image to bring Him glory and to enjoy
Him forever.  God's love transcends our concept of like or dis-like.

>	Did He like Noah and his family?  They alone were saved.  Did liking
>have anything to do with it.  What about Moses or Daniel or David?

God chose Noah, Moses, Daniel, and David to play a part in His plan for the
world and the redemption of mankind.  God chose Noah and his family because
they were righteous in God's sight and were looking to Him alone for 
their salvation.

>	Was righteousness and faith alone sufficient to get God to like them.

God declares us righteous through our faith.  There is nothing we can do to
get right with God, other than to put all of our faith and trust in the
completed redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the cross of calvary.


>	If God does like some but not others doesn't that mean he prefers one
>over another.  But we know that is not the way God is?

You have already quoted John 3:16, "For God so loved the world...".  God is
impartial, the Bible, both Old Testament and New Testament teaches that we
too are to be impartial.  In other words, God does not favour one group of
people over another.
 
In Him,

Graham 
	

      Yes, God likes us.

              Hank

If the definition of "like" is anything less than love, (and HOW can I leave
love out of this topic, as we are speaking of God, who IS love) than no, He
doesn't like us. 

If "like", is a step on the way to love, as I like you as a friend, and that
grows into love, then again, the answer is no. It's His nature to love, and He
can do nothing less.

Just my thoughts,

Bob

    .3
    
    Pretty interesting thoughts... I think you may on to something.
    
    How can a God who created us in his image and died for us be less then
    Love for us.. it is contrary to the very essence of who he is.
    
    I John 3 and 4 are all about *love* and the author of love.  Hmmm now
    who could that be? 
    
    :-)

Hi Bob, 

The differentiation between liking and loving only comes because we're
humans, who don't ultimately understand the intreraction between body, mind
and spirit.  I see love as the spirit response which transcends total human
analysis.  'liking' is usually responsive to a more tangible formalisation.

That's why it can be frustrating for someone to be able to identify
superficial areas of difference, while they can't nail down their shared
areas, which amount to the so much more important more important love.

I do not see God as suffering from that dichotomy.  His love includes, 
embraces and sweeps up 'liking' with it.  You remember John 21, and Jesus' 
questions to Peter....  I might paraphrase it as:

Jesus:  Peter, do you love Me?
Peter:  Jesus, you know I like you....
Jesus:  	Peter, do you love Me?
Peter:  	Jesus, you know I like you....
Jesus:  Peter, do you like Me?
Peter:  Oh, Jesus! You *know* I like you....

� If God does like some but not others doesn't that mean he prefers one over
� another.  But we know that is not the way God is? 
As in "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated", Malachi 1:2-3, Romans 9:13?
I would suggest that this goes deeper than human liking.  God cares more
than any of us about every single individual.  1 Timothy 2:4 tells us that
God "wants all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth." In
fact, He likes us so much that even after we told Him most decisively that
we did not like Him, He still went ahead and "gave Himself as a ransom for
all men" - 1 Timothy 2:6.  God demonstrates His own love for us in this:
While we were stil sinners, Christ died for us".  OK, so it says 'love',
not just 'like'.  But that love included all the things that I would hope 
for from true liking also.  He 'wanted' Esau to come to the truth also, but 
Esau clung to the standards of fallen man, which has no room for God.  So 
Esau chose the way which is excluded from God; the way which walks into 
wrath and judgement, instead of the mercy which God desires us all to
receive.

God chose us from the foundation of the world, not so that He could suck us
dry of all that we could offer Him, but so that He could nourish us - fit
us to be His companions [yes, and more, but companions also] for eternity. 

In Genesis 5, all those folks enjoyed 800-900+ years of life.  Except one,
who had a very special relationship with God.  Enoch walked with Him, right
out of this world.  The implication is that Enoch chose to accept the
invitation.  He wasn't bribed; he didn't have his arm twisted....  Maybe 
it's a bit fanciful, but I imagine the heart of God longing for 
companionship - the companionship He enjoyed in the Garden of Eden before 
the fall.  He had made such a wonderful environment for man to develop in - 
but that wasn't his ultimate end;  he was designed to live in heaven with 
God.  And God wanted an early example to come and get a preview glimpse of 
glory.  He loved him, and liked him enough to share where He was...  Then 
there's Abraham 'the friend of God'...

It's not just that we're invited to be a friend of God.  God is *our*
friend too.  He likes us.  He wants us to like Him, and for that liking to
mature into love.  When it reaches the 'love' stage, it permits Him to work
in us for our improvement, because we trust that He has our ultimate good /
enjoyment at heart as well.  The only reason we have the artificial split
between 'love' and 'like' is because the heart work He is doing digs so
deep that we *think* that we're subject to the enemy, fear, while in
reality he is just teaching us a deeper trust and deeper love while He
matures us.

One of our rabbits (died about 3 years back) was really quite tame - he
would play round our feet while we were working in the garden, etc.  But 
try to pick him up. and he'd whisk off in a flash.  One day I was out there 
with him playing around, when he came a crouched in front of me - as if he 
were asking to be picked up.  I was most puzzled, but did so.  Then I saw 
why - a cat had come into the garden behind me.  The other rabbits would 
have panicked, and run from both people and cat.  But this one overcame the 
natural fear of man, choosing to trust me rather than the cat.  I was 
amazed that he could have done this.  But God has warned us of the 'cat' in 
the garden, and invites us to trust Him inctead of that cat.  The rabbit 
couldn't understand or evaluate the depth of my trustworthiness, 
rabbit-wise (it almost inevitably would know that I'm a meat-eater...).
But it made its choice.

God can - and will - judge the unrighteous in their sins.  I trust Him to 
deal with mine.  I trust Him to like me into eternity.

						God bless
							Andrew

  technically speaking "man" or ADAM is God's creation which is "very good"
  which he "likes-tov mod". Those who are "born" of the Spirit, having been
  "begotten " of the Father (His children) he loves "agape".

  I create documents, reports, programs; things which are not my "kind".
  Generally speaking, I like the things I create.

  I beget children of my own "kind", these I love.

                   Hank  

    As a father, I love my three sons.  I dislike some of the things that
    they do, particularly when they choose not to follow my direction, or
    when they choose to tell me that I have done it wrong, or they could
    have done it better.  All of the time I love them.  They can do things
    that are dispicable to me, but I will not abandon them or stop loving
    them.  They can disappoint me by their actions, which means that I will
    not like what they have done, but I will still love them.
    
    Is our Heavenly Father any different?  Must He not be terribly
    disappointed when by our actions we say to Him I could have done it
    better.  What about all of His children that are not Christian?  They
    must be a terrible disappointment to Him, but I suggest that He still
    loves them.
    
    Daryl

�    	What kind of qualities would God look for in someone He liked?

Bob, I think whoever it was put it best, who reminded us that we're made 
in God's image, guaranteed to be liked by Him...  He doesn't make things He 
doesn't like.

Various people are referred to by how God perceived them.  David is called 
'a man after God's heart' (1 Samuel 13:14, Acts 13:22).  God honoured him 
specially.  Even though David sinned grievously over Bathsheba and Uriah, 
bringing trouble for the rest of his reign, he was still in essence a man
after God's own heart.  I believe that covers both loving and liking.

�    	Tell me what you think about liking.  

I've been thinking some about this since I saw your entry, trying to 
identify the characteristics of 'liking' and 'loving', and as I considered 
them it seemed that 'lusting' had to enter the equation as well.
It may, of course, be just my perspective, but I would typify 'liking',
'loving' and 'lusting' as follows : 

'Liking' is a judgement.  Based on a personal estimation of a particular 
identifiable quality or attribute.

'Loving' is a reaction.  Based on a response to a person/idea as a whole. 
It is more about giving than taking - ie the desire is not to 'own' the
object of one's love, so much as to protect / enhance / complement (as well
as compliment) it. 

You can like or dislike any tangible object, based on how your senses feel 
about it.  Liking tends to ownership, and its more extreme expression 
towards an inanimate object leads to lust (ie, a loss of rational control 
in greed for the object) and coveting.

Lust towards a person has nothing to do with love.  Love wants to give, and 
is careless of the cost or personal pain.
Lust is selfish; wants to take, regardless of the pain given to the object 
of lust.

No time to get into this now, but that's where I started.

					God bless
							Andrew

	Much of the previous replies assume that liking and loving are degrees
of the same thing and therefore God's love toward us transcends His liking us.

	However, I'm reminded that my wife loves me always, but sometimes
doesn't like me. 8*) You may argue that she doesn't like the *things* that I 
did. I would agree and add that since I did the things she didn't like then
at least for a little while she didn't like me either!  8*)

	I'm certain that God loves me always as His Word declares it is so. But
I certain that God doesn't always like me. 

	Of course, whether God loves me or likes me, or whether He doesn't love
me or like me, doesn't really matter one way or the other concerning our
standing before Him. This is because our standing is not based on His love or
like toward us, rather it is based upon the precious blood of Jesus and His
righteousness. If an unbeliever believes, God *must* save that one whether He
loves that particular person or not, or whether He likes him or not. Love and
like are irrelevant. If a believer sins, he/she need only confess and repent to
clear up his/her standing before the Lord. God *must* forgive. This is because
God's righteousness transcends both His love and like toward us. He is bound to
His word. He must fulfill it, He could never be unrighteous.

	God loves us, He may nor may not like us, but most importantly because
He is righteous, He must always accept us if we as believers, confess and
repent. God's righteousness should be to us the most empowering, comforting and
assuring part of our relationship with Him.


ace

    Ace,
    
    You bring up an interesting characteristic of God's nature, His
    Righteousness.  I believe that His Righteousness is the very
    root of our need for salvation.  Because of His Righteousness, we must
    be righteous to be in His presence.  We cannot in our human flesh be
    righteous, we ar born sinners.  Therefore, the BLOOD of CHRIST cleanses
    all those who believe and receive, so that we *become* righteous and
    obtain the ability to be in His presence for eternity.
    
    Also, when you look at Righteousness we must also look at
    Justification... i.e.,
    
    Righteous Love
    Righteous Anger
    Righteous Death
    Righteous Dislike :-)
    
    I think we are empowered to have the above responses when they are for
    spiritual reasons.  Righteous anger should be expressed against sin. 
    Righteous Love is always giving and forgiving.  Righteous death is the
    giving of one's life for the taking of one's life.  Righteous dislike
    is exactly what you've written in your previous note.
    
    Too often we limit our ability to express Righteous emotions under the
    guise of being meek and humble.  Meekness is NOT weakness.  Meekness is
    Power Under Control.  Humility is not low self esteem.  Humility is
    always considering others first.
    
    Your Sis,
    Nancy

.12>  yum yum - good food.

    Tanks! ;-)