Conference yukon::christian_v7

Hey Ray, whaddya say.  (always wanted to say that)

C.S.Lewis handles the possibilities of aliens quite nicely, I think.
In his Trilogy "Out of the Silent Planet," "Perelandra," and "That
Hideous Strength" he basically says that it wouldn't change facts
none.

The fact is that mankind is depraved and in need of salvation from 
this depravity.  The presence of aliens would not change this.

The fact is that Jesus Christ came to earth and made some astonishing 
claims.  Some have even speculated that He was an alien.  He certainly
was extra-terrestrial before taking on the form of man.  The presence
of space people wouldn't change this, because Jesus claimed to be God,
not a space alien.

The fact is that for *THIS* earth and *THIS* race of humanity, God has
provided a means to be washed of our depravity.  If there are other inhabited
planets (witness Perelandra and [Mars] in his books), then they would be
dealt with according to THEIR specific needs.  Perelandra (Venus) is
the Garden of Eden story with a successful - therefore a Savior was not
needed because sin did not enter their world.  The presence of aliens
would not change our need for redemption that God offers to whosoever
believes.

Mark 

>    And up to the podium comes some Zoronian 
>    ambassadors, ugly little grey dudes with big black eyes, who have
>    been living in underground facilities in the murcan southwest.

...besides, I seen these dudes elsewhere around the country.  No one
would believe they were aliens!     8^D

Now, if aliens came to earth and claimed that all religion was a bunch of hokey
hooey, I'd have a problem with that as a Christian.  I've staked my very 
existance on believing the truth of the Bible.  I've tallied up many 
evidences in my studies that validates and confirms this belief.

I would have to ignore what Jesus claimed about himself, what millions
of people have claimed about him, what certain writings have claimed,
what my own inner voice has to say, and the evidences that I have
experienced firsthand.

That would be a lot to ignore just because some gray-skinned, bug eyed
creature stepped off a shining disc of a space craft.  In other words,
how would it *really* change things?

Mark

      I honestly would tend to think they were fallen angels and
      I would pretty much ignore them.
    
                                                 Tony

Hi Ray,

God already told us what to do in this sort of case, in Galatians 1:8-9.  
Test what they say against the Word of God.  If it agrees, ok.  If it 
disagrees, don't accept it.  The colour of their skin, eyes, hair, teeth 
etc - or even number of them - isn't a pre-requisite.


Galatians 1:8-9

 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than 
  the one we preached to you,. let him be eternally condemned! As we have 
  already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel 
  other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!"

Bear in mind that we should expect false miracles etc in the end times, as 
warned by Revelation 13:13 {bit of inspired verse numbering there ? ;-}  So 
don't just get convinced by a glib tongue or pyrotechnics.  Jesus' blood is 
the only way for us humans.  Jesus came as a human.  Jesus created as a 
human (Hebrews 1:2).  Jesus brought salvation as God and man... 

And of course, the danger in theorising in an area that hasn't been 
experienced isn't aware of genuine boundaries.  The fact that misunderstood 
ones have been crossed in the past doesn't automatically mean that all 
conceptual boundaries are therefore invalid and crossable.  ie - just 
because we now have computer power and unlabeled cigarettes doesn't mean 
that there are intelligent beings on other planets in the universe.

For me, although I very much enjoy C.S..Lewis' sci fi trilogy, I do not see 
it as an actual physical possibility.  The postulate of his context was 
that the earth alone of creation was fallen.  The books focused on the
confrontations between fallen humanity and unfallen mortal beings.  It
raises a lot of problems (Death without the fall for one, and I would see
all of creation as coming under the fall, because the physical creation is
also affected).  But even so they make good stories, and good value
statements, turning a blind eye to the minor postulation of their
inconsistent context. 

							Andrew

    If aliens were unfallen creatures of God then they would readily
    recognize Jesus as Lord; Jesus is, after all, the second Person
    of the Holy Trinity, still one God.
    
    If they were unfallen then they would life a perfect life in God -
    no sin, no disunity with God's Revelation to us; they would live
    the perfect gospel life.
    
    If they did not live this and they did not know Jesus then they
    would at least need Him also.
    
    I always understood that when sin entered creation that it changed
    all of creation. All of creation is yet to be fully restored as
    it was originally created and meant to be by God. Therefore, I would
    be incredibly suspect of any claim of perfection or any other
    means of salvation in the universe.
    
    Peace,
    Mary

>    ruled other star systems.  In revelation it describes Satan drawing
>    down one third of the stars from heaven.  Perhaps one third of the
    
    If you're talking about Revelation 8:12, your assumption is wrong. 
    This was a result of *God's* wrath being poured out.
    
    Mike

    Re: 419.8 (Bob P.)

>    	As I understand it Lucifer was the ruler of earth sometime before
>    man came on the scene. He held the title deed to the earth which was
>    given to him by God.  These possible understandings come from Ezekiel
>    somewhere.
>    
>    	After the rebellion, which He led, man was invented and given the
>    title deed to the earth.

    I'm not sure where you get the idea that Lucifer ruled the earth prior
    to his fall.  Is it because of the reference "For thou hast said in
    thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above
    the stars of God" (Is 14:13), where Lucifer's attempt to exalt himself
    to be equal with God is recorded?  I usually consider "I beheld Satan
    as lightning fall from heaven." (Luke 10:18) as an indication that
    Lucifer's abode prior to his fall was in heaven. (As an aside, it would
    not surprise me if we someday -- THAT day -- learn that Satan's fall
    from heaven caused a cataclysmic event in the cosmos, setting the scene
    for Gen 1:2.)

    As for other inhabited systems in the cosmos?  I don't know.  I do
    believe, as you, that part of the reward to the faithful will be to
    rule over parts of the cosmos.  And a ruler implies something/one being
    ruled over.

    Mark L.

�  Concerning Rev. 8:12 I do not have a bible with me and can not say
�  what scripture you are refering to, however I am aware of a scripture
� that describes where the dragon pulled his tail accross the heavens and
� pulled down one third of all the stars.  I do not see this as the
�  "Wrath of God" but rather the gathering of followers for a rebellion.

Revelation 12:4.  Totally different situation from 8:12.
Back when I've time.  And good to see you back, Bob

						God bless
							Andrew