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Conference yukon::christian_v7

Title:The CHRISTIAN Notesfile
Notice:Jesus reigns! - Intros: note 4; Praise: note 165
Moderator:ICTHUS::YUILLEON
Created:Tue Feb 16 1993
Last Modified:Fri May 02 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:962
Total number of notes:42902

412.0. "How to get closer, closer, and closer?" by N2DEEP::SHALLOW (Deeper than my name) Mon Feb 21 1994 12:25

I have a great need to get closer to God. To know without a doubt; His voice,
His will, His direction. In my understanding, it seems God would want this even
more than I do. Has anyone yet discovered the secret of how to know that I know
that I know, God. I hope this relationship with Him is more than just feeling
His presence, reading His word, obeying His commands. When you love someone, as
I love God, for all He has done for me, you want to be with that person. To not
experience a deeper relationship is something I can't deal with. It has always
seemed that my prayer life has been a one-way conversation.

Jesus prayer in John 17:21 clearly states;

That they all may be one; as thou, Father art in me, and I in thee, that they
may also be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

What does it take on MY part, to acheive this? Be still, and know that I am God?
I think I've tried this, thusfar, without the degree of success I need.

In His love, by His Grace,
yet, hungering, and thirsting for more.

Bob
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412.1CSLALL::HENDERSONActs 4:12Mon Feb 21 1994 12:3917

 I feel many times that I need/want to be closer to Him.  I usually find
 that when I feel that way, I've moved from Him without even realizing it.
 I usually find that there is something that I've allowed to enter my life,
 or some area of disobedience that has caused that gap to appear.



 I'm not suggesting that in this case, but I know for me that is usually what
 has happened.





 Jim going through this at the moment.
412.2ICTHUS::YUILLEThou God seest meMon Feb 21 1994 12:5714
Bob ..... I think it's a hunger He longs to awake in us from time to time, 
that we may ask what He longs to pour out into our lives.  It may take time 
for Him to get us where He has for us, but the only way I've found is to 
cling to Him...  And want more...  Yes, He comes closer.  And the thrill of 
knowing Him there - nothing one could describe, but overwhelming to the 
heart ....

� It has always seemed that my prayer life has been a one-way conversation.
Hmmm. Don't talk too loud... ;-)  Sometimes His 'interruption' can all but be 
missed.  But if that's the way He's leading you, you can be sure He won't 
disappoint you.

						God bless
							Andrew
412.3TOKNOW::METCALFEEschew Obfuscatory MonikersMon Feb 21 1994 15:174
See notes 173.*       "Holiness"
See also notes 195.*  "About Prayer"

These are good starts.
412.4KENOSISKOLBE::ejeEric James EwancoMon Feb 21 1994 15:41113
I do not believe that it is a _common_ phenomena for the believer to know with
certainty God's will, His direction, or His words for you, without doubt.
(There are those who have such knowledge, but they are very rare and very holy
individuals.  We should seek to be like them.)  Usually it seems that we must
be content with walking by faith, that is, not by sight; to a certain degree, I
think God veils Himself and withholds Himself from us so that we _will_ walk by
faith and not by sight.

Nevertheless, I do believe it is possible to come into deep communion with God
(that is how I would describe what you seek).  It is a very good thing to want
to love God in the way that you do, and want to enter into that deep
relationship -- that union and communion with God.  In fact, if we consider the
wonderful sign of marriage, which is a sign of Christ's relationship with His
Church, we understand that the goal of the Christian is to unite himself,
spirit and body, to Christ our God -- Scripture speaks of this in a number of
ways, from being joined to the Body of Christ, to being "in Christ" and having
Christ live "in us", to the image of the Vine and the branches, and so forth.

We will only know this perfect communion with God when we die and see Him
"face to face."  So now we live only in an imperfect communion with God.
Nevertheless, it is possible for us to reach different levels of communion with
God.  How do we come to know God in an intimate way?  How do we unite
ourselves to Him in communion of love, and experience that close intimacy with
God?  Reaching this intimacy is in fact one of the goals of monasticism, and
the means of reaching it has been described by many holy men in many books.
The only such book which I have read is the Philokalia, which I have mentioned
elsewhere; I give you only a small, imperfect portion of what I have learned
from it.

In order to achieve true communion with God, we must first empty ourselves of
all that is not of God and all that keeps us from God -- this is a process
called "kenosis", or self-emptying.  The first thing, of course, that keeps us
from God is sin; and in order to be free from sin, we must learn control over
the passions of the flesh -- which I touched upon in note 392.  We must strive
to eradicate, through God's grace, every bit of sin from our lives, making
ourselves, as Paul puts it, "slaves of righteousness" instead of slaves to sin.
St. Paul says, "Put to death, therefore, whtever belongs to your earthly
nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is
idolatry." (Col 3:5)

Next we must turn our wills and desires entirely towards God -- which means
turning them away from earthly, material things, freeing ourselves from all
undue attachment to worldly things, so that all of our desire is focused
towards God.  In other words, we must renounce ourselves, take up our cross,
and follow Christ, as the Gospel tells us.  "Set your minds on things above,
not on earthly things" (Col 3:2). Christ told the rich young ruler, "If you
wish to be perfect, go and sell all you have, and you will have treasure in
heaven."  This means that perfection is attained by freeing ourselves from
attachment to possessions, worldly things, worldly pleasures, and so forth, and
"seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness." It does not necessarily
mean that only monks -- those who literally follow this call -- can obtain
perfection, although there is definitely an advantage to this route.  But what
it does mean is that we must learn from the less of the young ruler who walked
away unsaved, and root out all of our desires that keep us from following
Christ unreservedly.  We must be willing to abandon all things -- everything,
everything heart and soul, for the sake of knowing Christ.  We must exhibit the
attitude of St. Paul, "But whatever was to my profit I know consider loss for
the sake of Christ.  What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the
surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have
lost all things.  I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found
in him. . . . I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the
fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and
so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection of the dead." (Philippians 3:7-10)
You see, here, how Paul speaks mystically of "gaining Christ" and being "found
in Him" -- Paul speaks of how we attain more perfect communion with God.  He
shows us that we must consider all other things as rubbish, as a loss, in order
to find Christ.  Finally, he tells us that we must share in Christ's
sufferings, "becoming like him in his death."

These are heavy words, my friend!!  There is no name it and claim it Gospel
here!! It bears repeating: In order to gain Christ, we must become like him in
His death.

What does this mean?  I am sure there is much more to it than just this, but I
think we can begin by saying that Christ, in His death, gave up everything --
cf. the "Kenosis Canticle" in chapter 2, "Your attitude should be the same as
that of Christ Jesus .... [He] made himself nothing, taking the very nature of
a servant ... he humbled himself and became obedient to death."  Jesus gave up
His glory in heaven.  He gave up a comfortable life on earth, he gave up
marriage, he gave up riches, he gave up a home, he fasted for forty days and
nights, and finally died, humiliated and disgraced (but just for a time).  What
are _we_ then called to do? "Run in such a way as to get the prize.  Everyone
who competes in the games goes into strict training. . . . Therefore I do not
run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air.
No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to
others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize." (1 Cor 9:25ff). Yes,
St. Paul here is specifically speaking of our reward in heaven, but the same
thing applies to entering into deeper communion with God here on earth.
Through this strict training, like an athelete, we rid ourselves of all impure
passions, of all worldly attachments, of all focus on things not of heaven.

When we have freed ourselves of all such encumbrances ("...let us throw off
everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run
with perseverence with race marked out for us", Hebrews 12:1), then we will be
free to enter into a deeper communion with God.  For until we remove those
obstacles which stand before us and our God, we will never be able to come
close to him.  Until we grow more like Christ, and reconcile ourselves more
perfectly with him by cooperating with His grace, we cannot know him more
intimately, just as a husband and wife must love each other deeply and be
reconciled before they can experience deep intimacy.

As we prepare to celebrate the Paschal Feast of our God's atoning death and
resurrection from the dead to bring us to new life, let us use this opportunity
to respond more radically and deeply to the Gospel call to repentance by
examining ourselves, ridding ourselves of all impurities and attachment to sin,
converting our hearts and wills towards God, shedding all that hinders and
entangles us, and seeking first in our lives the Kingdom of God and a life of
holiness and righteousness through the grace of Christ.  Then our hearts will
be pure, and we will be ready to receive and unite ourselves with our
Bridegroom when we celebrate His Resurrection.  This is the meaning of Lent;
come, let us prepare for the Wedding Feast of the Lamb.

Eric
412.5One certain answer...SIERAS::MCCLUSKYMon Feb 21 1994 16:3416
    Eric made an excellent point about walking with faith.  If we knew for
    certain, we would not need faith. But, my reason for replying has to do
    with answered prayer.  My first wife died after almost 21 years of marriage,
    she was 39 years old and left me with boys 17 and 14.  As you may guess
    I felt sevre pain at the situation, along with fear, lonliness, etc. 
    As I poured out my feeling on my face, suddenly God placed His hand on
    my shoulder and I was calm, the pain was bearable, the future seemed to
    be something I could cope with.  I was completely certain of my answer. 
    This says to me, that when we pour out our feeling and He sees our need
    He will answer.  But, He did not create us to not use our good sense,
    our learning etc to handle some things with Him through Faith.  I have
    changed jobs, moved, taken important steps with my life and never been
    as certain as I was in that one instance.  But, I have faith in where
    He will lead...
    
    
412.6Thanks!N2DEEP::SHALLOWDeeper than my nameMon Feb 21 1994 17:4317
Thanks all for your thoughts. I was hoping that Hebrews 11:6, where God is a
rewarder of them that diligently seek Him, would choose the reward to be that of
a much closer relationship. In the circles of Christian groups I have been
associated with in the past, I had heard that God desires a close personal
relationship with all his children. And as is the "Abba, Father" concept of a
childlike faith, looking towards the Father, I didn't think I had to do
anything, but believe. I thought Jesus did it all for me on the cross, and
opened the door, that (Hebrews 4:15,16) I may boldly come into the throne room,
to obtain grace, in time of need. This has worked to "feel" the presence of God,
but the presence of God, sad to say, is not enough for my current desire to
spend quality time with my Father, and my Big Brother, Jesus. To have to wait
until the flesh no longer is a factor, as in leaving the body for good is sad
indeed, but does bring me to the place of one who "loves His appearance".

God bless you all muchly (is that a word? 8^)

Bob
412.7More on closenessROMEOS::SHALLOW_ROProverbs 3:5Tue Mar 15 1994 19:4224
    How kind of God to give me further information on this topic. While
    listening to Charles Stanley, on the AM radio a few minutes ago, he
    gave the following steps, to get closer to God. I felt the need to
    share them. So...
    
    1) Study the Word
    
    2) Spend time *ALONE* in prayer, meditation, and worship
    
    3) Trust Him
    
    4) Obey Him
    
    5) Observe and record how God works in my life, and the lives of others
    
    6) Look for the evidence of Christ in every circumstance
    
    7) Be willing to lay aside *EVERYTHING* if He should ask such
    
    Another wonderful occurance of ask, and ye shall receive. 
    
    Amazed by His Grace,
    
    Bob