Conference yukon::christian_v7

It escalated ?

Hi Andrew,

I read your nice note, but when I got all the way to the bottom, I couldn't
remember if you were a posing a question for discussion or not (I know - I
do have a short memory these days - too much to cram into my little brain !)
But I do remember your wondering about the gifts the wise men brought to 
Jesus.  I don't think that the gospels mention what became of these - other
than that Mary thought deeply about all that had happened.  My guess would
be that the proceeds from these expensive gifts were used to sustain the 
family while in Egypt as you said, and I would also guess that Mary and 
Joseph did not have a problem using them this way since the whole purpose of 
their flight and stay in Egypt was to preserve the life of their young son - 
and what greater value can a gift have than that ?

Leslie

    I've heard some testify that Mary and Joseph were wise stewards with
    the young child's gifts and much was given to him to sustain he and
    disciples travels.
    
    I do not have any documentation to back this up...just remember hearing
    it.

    bit of a tangent, but what happened to Joseph?
    Mary shows up again, but not her hubby...
    what are the theories?
    
    curious,
    p

    Joseph was older than Mary when they were married, as was often the case
    in those times. They believe that Joseph was between 25 and 28
    years of age and Mary was around 16. If Jesus began his ministry around age
    30, Joseph would have been approximately 58. The average life span for men 
    in those days was 50. So, it is believed that Joseph had died before Jesus 
    began his ministry.

     Jim

    When I think about it, it really blows my mind that Mary was only
    16 when this awesome event happened to her.  It really took
    a leap of faith on her part to say "yes" to God on this - knowing
    that she could be stoned should people think she had relations out
    wedlock.  I think the lyrics to this song sum it up well - it shows
    her human feelings/fears but her faith was greater. 
    
    			Breath of Heaven (Mary's song)
    		   by Amy Grant - Home for Christmas album 
    
    
    I have travelled many moonless nights
    cold and weary
    with a babe inside
    and I wonder what I've done
    Holy Father you have come
    and chosen me now
    to carry your Son
    
    I am waiting in a silent prayer
    cold and frightened 
    by the load I bear
    In a world as cold as stone
    must I walk this path alone
    Be with me now
    Be with me now
    
    (chorus)
    Breath of Heaven hold me together
    be forever near me - Breath of Heaven
    Breath of Heaven
    lighten my darkness
    pour over me your holiness
    For You are Holy
    
    Do you wonder as you watch my face
    if a wiser one should have had my place
    But I offer all I am
    For the mercy of your plan
    Help me be strong
    Help me be
    Help me
    
    (chorus)
    
    

    .5
    
    Hi Karen,
    
    Last year when I heard that song, I literally wept through it.   Thanks
    for posting the words.

.1, from Leslie 
� It escalated ?

I started writing as a comment in chit-chat, but other things occurred to
me as it developed...  It escalated from a casual thought to a note... 
(you use 'escalated' this way?).

I meant it more as a meditation [but welcoming discussion etc] rather than
any special question.  More to apply to ourselves rather than to try to
unearth Mary and Joseph's introspective qualms or motives etc - I doubt
they had half the self-analytical hang-ups our society produces ;-)

The commonest (in fact, 'only' as far as I have heard) conjecture is
certainly that the gifts would provide for the Egyptian sojourn, though 
this is not stated explicitly in the Bible.

re .3
As Joseph is not subsequently mentioned (except where Jesus is referred to
as 'the carpenter's son' (Matthew 15:35), and is clearly not able to
support Mary by the time of the crucifixion (when Jesus, as the oldest son,
entrusts this responsibility to John), it is presumed that he died earlier,
possibly because of his age.  Though this is conjecture, the clues pointing
to it make it seem quite likely. 


Loved the song, Karen...  thanks.

								Andrew

There's another beautiful new song called "In one quiet moment" about Mary and
Joseph's experience on the new GLAD Acapellla Christmas tape.  I'll try to
remember to bring in the words.  The chorus begins:

And in one quiet moment,
A woman and a man,
Accepted the part
they would have in God's plan.

Paul

    Re: .5 and Amy
    
    $ set mode sarcasm/level=extreme
    
    Pretty decent song for one who was labeled a greedy crossover
    secularist.
    
    $ set mode normal

    re: .0
    
    Andrew - thanks for posting that thoughtful meditation.
    
    Appreciative,
    
    
    Steve

set mode terrier

>    Pretty decent song for one who was labeled a greedy crossover
>    secularist.

Some people just can't seem to recognize that she is in a TREMENDOUS place of
ministry.  The secular music world desperately needs people who can create music
that will be accepted in that world yet which is positive, doesn't glorify sex,
violence and general decadence, and which mentions the name of Jesus.  Yes,
she's not singing "My Father's Eyes" any more, but that was only heard by a
limited audience of people who listened to Christian music.  Now she's putting
out albums like "Heart in Motion," which is bought and listened to by thousands
of non-christians, and which has lyrics on it like "If there's anything good
that happens in life, it's from Jesus."

We need more like her.

I know, I'm preaching to the choir, but I feel better now.  :-)

Set mode normal

    Paul, not only is that Christmas CD currently the #1 selling Christmas
    album, but I hear it playing on all the PA's in the malls and
    department stores.  If that isn't ministering to the world, then I'm
    not a Christian.

>>>    department stores.  If that isn't ministering to the world, then I'm
>>>    not a Christian.

	I won't touch that one!

	;-)

    
    Anybody heard "Joseph's Song" by Michael Card?  It really struck a
    chord with me last year.  The melody is beautiful; one of the most
    beautiful melodies I've heard.  I'm singing it now.
    
    How could it be
    Lying in my arms
    Sleeping there, so peacefully
    The Son of God
    The Angel said
    How could it be
    
    Father, show me where I fit into this plan of yours
    How can a man be father to the Son of God?
    Though all my life I've been a simple carpenter
    How can raise a King, How can I raise a King?
    
    He looks so small
    His face and hands so fair
    And when He crys the sun seems to disappear
    And when laughs, it shines again
    How can it be?
    
    Father show me where I fit into this plan of yours
    How can a man be father to the Son of God?
    Though all my life I"ve been a simple carpenter
    How can I raise a King, How can I raise a King!!?
    
    

    Yes, Joseph's Song is beautiful. My wife plays it occationally on the
    guitar too. An added treat. (She plays a lot of other songs too. I
    enjoy her urges to play some Christian music. {currently, the piano is
    out of tune. So the guitar is fine with me.}  )
    
       ;^)
    
       -PDM

Hi Jeff,

I received a Michael Card CD last Christmas.  I'd not heard of him before. 
It had the Joseph song on it too.  I really appreciated the whole CD... 

.11, Paul
� Yes, she's not singing "My Father's Eyes" any more, but
� that was only heard by a limited audience of people who listened to
� Christian music.  Now she's putting out albums like "Heart in Motion,"
� which is bought and listened to by thousands of non-christians, and which
� has lyrics on it like "If there's anything good that happens in life, 
� it's from Jesus." 

Paul, I don't know the song "My Father's Eyes".  Are you saying that was / 
wasn't a good witness?  - in contrast to a positive witness of "Heart in 
Motion"?

								Andrew

>    Anybody heard "Joseph's Song" by Michael Card?  

Yup.  In fact, I was listening to it this morning while eating breakfast.  :-)

>Paul, I don't know the song "My Father's Eyes".  Are you saying that was / 
>wasn't a good witness?  - in contrast to a positive witness of "Heart in 
>Motion"?

Not in the slightest, sorry if it came across that way.  Of course musicians who
make their music specifically for the audience of Christians have a wonderful
and necessary ministry.  I was merely responding (along with the originator of
this rathole) to the people who condemned her for switching her style to music
that was less overtly "christian."  People condemned her for not making every
song about Christ and how to follow Him any more.

Yet she makes albums which contain none of the yuck stuff that nearly all pop
music has, which always mention Christ at some point, and which are listened to
by a much wider audience.  That's just as valid a ministry as making music
especially for Christians.

Paul

    re .12
    
    Not only are several songs from the Home for Christmas cd played
    in malls, etc. - the cd was #1 on Billboard (according to the
    clerk at the christian bookstore I patronize.)
    
    Nothing is impossible with God!
    
    KM
    

One quiet moment...in the star-clustered night
Two weary travelers knew an end was in sight
So the soon-to-be mother grasped her husband's strong hand
And paused to remember where their journey began

Nine months of yearning filled with joy and with pain
He almost had left her, but then chose to remain
Close by the woman he had not even kissed
Who would bear him a son that would never be his

    And in one quiet moment...a woman and a man
    Accepted the part they would have in God's Plan
    To give up his glory, and be born as a man
    In one quiet moment

They dreamed of the times they would spend with their son
Taking trips through the hillsides and watching him run
And some days the fingers that had fashioned the stars
Would reach out to hold them when the walk was too far

They wrestled with knowing that his life would bring change
Their friends would grow distant and shun them as strange
Though they tried not to think it, in their hearts they were sure
That their baby was destined to die for the world

    And in one quiet moment...a woman and a man
    Accepted the part they would have in God's Plan
    To give up his glory, and be born as a man
    In one quiet moment, one quiet moment

One quiet moment, they could suddenly hear
Thousands of angels singing so clear
"Glory to God! His salvation is near"
    In this one quiet moment
    In this one quiet moment
    One quiet moment...

Hi Paul,

No problem.  I just didn't know it at all.  So Amy switched from targetting 
a purely Christian audience, to the secular world, and includes references 
to acknowledge / introduce to the LORD...

Sounds a good enough evangelistic principle to me! - up to how the LORD
leads there, rather than for anyone else to decide out of hand... 

I picked up a record of her in a sale a year or so back, which I listen to 
in it's turn... ;-)

							Andrew

� <<< Note 347.19 by EVMS::PAULKM::WEISS "Trade freedom for His security-GAIN both" >>>
�              -< One Quiet Moment - from GLAD: Acapella Christmas >-

						fantastic, Paul... thanks

>						fantastic, Paul... thanks

And that's just the words.  The music is great, too.  All in all, it's an
excellent tape/CD.

Paul